At close to 4500 miles on my xB, my car started "shuddering" and experiencing power lag in every gear. Shortly after, the Check Engine light comes on, along with the VSC and TRAC OFF lights. I take it to the dealership.

They say the problem is the injectors, so they replace them.

I pick the car up, and 9 miles later the same thing happens.

They call me yesterday and say they took a fuel sample and I have bad gas. They wanted $200 to drain the bad fuel, refill it, and run some fuel injection cleaner. I basically told them they were insane and that I could do the same thing for under $15 and about an hour of my time (burn the gas, refill, then clean injectors).

After contemplating my neverending bad experiences with cars, I decided to suck it up and pay the outrageous costs just in case I continue to have problems and my warranty becomes invalid because of my decision. So I call them back and give them the OK.

I pick up the car last night, and 10 miles later, same goddamn problems! Guess where I'll be after work?


Just wanted to share, in case anybody experiences anything similar. :x

do you get your money back since it wasn't fixed (well.. minus the cost of gas of course)??????????????

We'll find THAT out after I get their new explanation of the problem. I'm betting they're gonna try to stick to the "bad gas" story as long as possible.

are you serious?!?! this is bs! has anyone else had this problem??? if so, i'm going to get rid of my xb!

Dang that sucks man :x

Does the engine seem to be running louder?

That sucks :(

hrm, that's really odd, almost sounds like a timing issue if it isn't the gas, maybe the VVT-i became sentient and decided it didn't, that's really odd, almost sounds like a timing issue if it isn't the gas, maybe the VVT-i became sentient and decided it didn't like what it was doing :wink:

seriously, give them hell because they're the ones with the computers to tell them what is going on ,if they can't diagnose it it's a lemon

I don't know what the lemon laws are in Virginia (that's where you're at right?) but I would say don't back down one bit

I have a question..is your xb a auto or manual?

Nope, the engine is not louder. Yep, I am in Virginia.

My xB is a manual of course. :wink:

I called them to tell them I was bringing it back after work. Dude didn't know what to say, he wa just like "well, they drove it 10 miles and it was fine". They're gonna try to hose me; I already know it.

But don't worry, I don't back down. I will raise holy hell. They may even have to get the police to remove me from the building if they really try to screw me on this one.

I am already sueing a shop because the owner took my 300ZX for a joyride and totalled it. I really don't need this aggravation or to get stuck with a worthless pile of plastic and metal. I already have one of those sitting in my garage.

When it rains it pours. Unfortunately, it's been raining for me for 2 years straight. :cry:

I'll keep you all informed of the outcome.

this may sound funny, but check the alternator!

When we put the supercharger on our xB, the alternator wire didn't have enough slack in it so it actually came a little bit loose and started to fry....I was freaking out when I was driving it becaues it started thumping and all the dummy lights (VSC + TRAC, Check Engine, all of them) came on. Eventually the wire came all the way off and the whole xB just lost power.

Man I was freaking, you have no idea how relieved I was when we found out what the stupid problem was.....took 15 minutes to fix it, and it's been running great ever since.

Good idea. I'll check all the accessible wires in a few minutes.

I remember long ago my car kept stalling. After replacing this and trying that, turned out that one of my battery terminals was loose and was the culprit. Boy did I feel stupid.

update us

I would walk in and go totally ninja on all there asses, then demand that it get fixed

All connections appear to be secure.

I like the ninja idea. (visions of last night's South Park episode come to mind) :twisted:

40 more minutes....then I'm on my way there.

well, the service manager is adamant about it being caused by bad gas. So they're going to drop the tank and completely flush it, and change the plugs in case they were ruined from running too lean. This is going to cost me an extra $200.

If this really turns out to be the problem, then I am just out $400.

If not, then it becomes war.

I don't believe it had anything to do with "bad gas". But I'll keep y'all updated.

lemme get this straight ... they already drained your tank, filled it, and theny ran it again ... now they're going to charge you another 200 to do it all over again and add new spark plugs this time ...

1st .. I wouldn't let them charge you again... cause they didn't fix the problem.. I'd also try and get your money back from the first job ... or at least a portion of it ... The service mgr. is sure it's bad gas, so what he's saying is he put bad gas in your tank when he refilled it .

Once the problem is solved, I wouldn't take it back to that service department again. It doesn't sound like they know what's wrong and are feeding you BS and charging you for it.

HEY DONT BELIVE IN THAT BULL ____ JONLY DISEL WILL DOM THAT THAT IS AND ELECTRICAL PROBLEM. HAVE THEM CHECK FOR CODES IMM A TECH HERE AT CABE AND ALL THAT U HAVE SAID SHOULD BE UNDER WARRANTY. JUST CALL TOYOTA CORP AND RAISE HELL

See That ^^^^


I think it's time to break some reject service mgr.'s legs ...

well, the service manager is adamant about it being caused by bad gas. So they're going to drop the tank and completely flush it, and change the plugs in case they were ruined from running too lean. This is going to cost me an extra $200.

If this really turns out to be the problem, then I am just out $400.

If not, then it becomes war.

I don't believe it had anything to do with "bad gas". But I'll keep y'all updated.
There is no such thing as bad gas!!!!! This really ____es me off becuase the DAM ____ comes out of the same ground and everyone says its different! :evil: You tell those bastards that they shouldn't have charged you ANYTHING AT ALL!!! It says in the hand book that we can use 87 and not have a problem.

Now if you put in an additive to get more octane then ou may have a problem.
Keep us updated.

tell them that you wanna see the report on the gas sample.....otherwise you want your money back....basicly if the car goes back again for the same problem....get a lawyer....ask him if you have a case....wont cost you anything....lemon law is your friend if this keeps happening....

And get another shop to pull the diagnostic codes out of the computer.

I've heard that some auto parts shops will rent/loan code readers ... not here in California though, probably some emissions law or another ...

well, the service manager is adamant about it being caused by bad gas. So they're going to drop the tank and completely flush it, and change the plugs in case they were ruined from running too lean. This is going to cost me an extra $200.

If this really turns out to be the problem, then I am just out $400.

If not, then it becomes war.

I don't believe it had anything to do with "bad gas". But I'll keep y'all updated.


ARE YOU DUMB ENOUGH TO LET THIS ____ HAPPEN!!?!?! How can they charge you more when they have not fixed it right in the first 200. GO AND DEMAND THEY FIX IT NOW BECAUSE ITS NOT THE GAS AND THE CAR IS UNDER WARRANTY.. HELL GO TO ANOTHER SCION DEALER..!!!!


ARGHHH.. IM F---N ____ED NOW!

I don't see how they can charge you in the first place, ain't the xb under warranty for mechanical failure? And that's exactly what it is!!!!!!! :evil:

It seems apparent that this service department isnt taking you serious at all. Ok, heres what you do. Walk in, and as you are asking what the problem is and the guys starts to give you the famous toyota run around just go "i dont think you understand me" and quickly head butt the sh*t out of the next employee who walks by, be it a young lot attedent, a salesmen, or some old female secritary. Now, at this point the guy behind the desk may, i repeat may, realize that you know he is giving it to you in the out hole. Then demand you get your money back, and if he thinks about it, WHAM, another random headbutt should help him decide. The key is to make such a scene that is would just be cheaper to fix the damn thing and get you institutionalized than to argue. Or you could no so discretely go off on a service guy at the bussiest time of day, yelling about how they are screwing you. But i like the headbutt routine, it has yet to fail me.

First and foremost, you car is under the factory warranty ..... My opinion is that there is a chance to get some bad gas, that bad gas would come from the bottom if the tank where the suction comes from, water/gas mixed .... However, by adding a bottle of soultion would dry it out, hell, like you mentioned they dropped the tank and drained the tank, and changed the plugs, thus it would have corrected the problem. Unless this idiots put your old gas back in your car ??

I would be ____ed, after paying money like you did, you deserve to have it fixed after all they are a freaking Toyota Dealership - right ! Top notch techs, unless they are freakin morons ...

Stand tall and be firm ........

OR you could throw down with a couple head butts


i mean the choice is yours, you can be a leader (headbutt) or a follower (nice)

Hey everyone, I've actually had this problem with 2 xB's on my lot before. Although they were both automatic, but the engines run the same. You said they were going to check the spark plugs and that's probably where the problem is. We've had a couple of misfires in the engines due to the spark plugs being faulty. Nothing serious or anything like that. Also, if your Toyota Service department doesn't take care of these problems for free (and give you your money back) I suggest you go to Toyota/Scion corporate. Just have them change the spark plugs, which should be udner warranty, because you're WAY under the mileage at which you'd normally change them. That's just my $.02 but hey what do I know. :lol: 8)

lemme get this straight ... they already drained your tank, filled it, and theny ran it again ... now they're going to charge you another 200 to do it all over again and add new spark plugs this time ... They're saying that the process to "drop it" and flush it is $400, so I am paying the other half. :roll:
1st .. I wouldn't let them charge you again... cause they didn't fix the problem.. I'd also try and get your money back from the first job ... or at least a portion of it ... The service mgr. is sure it's bad gas, so what he's saying is he put bad gas in your tank when he refilled it . This will be the basis of my first rebuttle. Thanks!
Once the problem is solved, I wouldn't take it back to that service department again. It doesn't sound like they know what's wrong and are feeding you BS and charging you for it. Under their policy, can I have it serviced at any Toyota dealership without hassle?
HAVE THEM CHECK FOR CODES IMM A TECH HERE AT CABE AND ALL THAT U HAVE SAID SHOULD BE UNDER WARRANTY. JUST CALL TOYOTA CORP AND RAISE HELLWill do. Thanks.
Now if you put in an additive to get more octane then ou may have a problem.Nope. I did nothing like that.
tell them that you wanna see the report on the gas sample.....otherwise you want your money back....basicly if the car goes back again for the same problem....get a lawyer....ask him if you have a case....wont cost you anything....lemon law is your friend if this keeps happening....Excellent idea on requesting to see the gas sample analysis. I will do that today!
Also, if your Toyota Service department doesn't take care of these problems for free (and give you your money back) I suggest you go to Toyota/Scion corporate. Just have them change the spark plugs, which should be udner warranty, because you're WAY under the mileage at which you'd normally change them. That's just my $.02 but hey what do I know. :lol: 8)You're right; I'm not paying for none of this ____.


Thank you all for your support. I will post whatever happens this evening.

I would still throw in a headbutt for good measure, just to let them know whos boss.

I'll try to headbutt a few of em just for you. :wink:

I would still throw in a headbutt for good measure, just to let them know whos boss.

lmao :lol:

completely LMAO, I woke up my g/f reading those posts... seriously though, let us know how this turns out because it sounds like someone is trying to rip you a new one...

Here's the outcome:

After I got over my hangover Saturday, I headed up there. The Service Manager saved a "fuel sample" for my viewing. It had some watery ____ floating around in it. I was like, OK whatever....

Says after they dropped the tank, flushed it and refilled, they drove it for miles and it's running like a champ. Didn't need new plugs...proceed to Cashier.

That's when I dropped the bomb on him and told him I didn't feel I should pay the additional $200. He sensed a great disturbance in business coming, so he pulled me behind closed doors. We argued for about 10 minutes, he tried to lay a guilt trip on me (saying I agreed to the service, now I am refusing to pay, I can't be trusted, what I am doing is wrong, yadda yadda). Since I refused to back down and made a few passive threats, he waived the charges.

So I paid the initial $200 for the tank draining and injector cleaning, but not the additional $200 they were trying to cheat me out of. Problem has been written off as bad gas. And so far, so good. No signs of any problems as of yet.

If it reoccurs, I will resurrect this thread and let you all know.

Thanks to everyobdy here for your support!

I understand that you feel that you got a personal victory, however this dealer needs to know that its customers won't take this stuff laying down. Even if they gave you back full refund, you should still notify toyota of their misdeeds. you probably arent't the only person they've screwed with. :x

Btw I have heard of car companies rewarding whistle blowers before, might be something in it for you! :wink:

aw... your still out 2 bills though... should just report them to toyota and have toyota get you those other 2 bills back, you shouldn't have to pay anything, especially when that guy pulls you into another room and gives a pep talk to you. he should've just agreed with you and not charged instead of making a big deal about it.

I understand that you feel that you got a personal victory, however this dealer needs to know that its customers won't take this stuff laying down. Even if they gave you back full refund, you should still notify toyota of their misdeeds. you probably arent't the only person they've screwed with. :x

Btw I have heard of car companies rewarding whistle blowers before, might be something in it for you! :wink:

I agree that Toyota needs to know about this incident, because now they know you at the dealer. Its like the waiter that doesn't get tipped and you go back to that same waiter,"hell yeah, he's gonna spit in your food!!" I say call them up , just for a heads up on that dealer, you know you are gonna go back for somthin else. And after you report them, they will treat you like a king the next time! :D

do you have to get your car serviced at the dealership you bought it from? (for warrantied items)

I would still throw in a headbutt for good measure, just to let them know whos boss.

an elbow drop or two wouldn't hurt either!

i agree, an elbow drop would go a long way. But i would never take my car there again, they will totally screw it up. They will also list you as a hostile customer and blacklist you at all the local nightclubs, TRUST ME

next time you might wanna try a different dealer. I was getting crap from the dealership i bought the car from and they weren't gonna warrenty some parts so i took it to another scion dealership and they said no problem and the next day my ____ was all fine and i give mad props to the service manager there. She is a life saver. She saved me over 600 bones on twisted seatbelts.

Im with the headbutt guy...works for me.

Also, you may want to send them the link to this thread, so they know any future Scion buyers will be going elsewhere!!.....Their dealership should fold shortly therafter.

Hi,

I was surfing around trying to find some answers to the problem that I've been having with my xB and I came across this post.

About a week ago my check engine light came on followed by both the 'vsc' and the 'trac off' lights. Since then, the idle has been rough, but I don't notice any difference in the way that the car runs otherwise.

I've been thinking about taking it down to the dealership, but I've been nervous about ending up in the same situation as you have described. I find it hard to swallow that the cause could be bad gas. Maybe I'll try a different station and see if that does the trick...

I was thinking that it could have something to do with the K&N Typhoon kit that I installed about two weeks ago, but would MAF sensor readings have anything to do with the 'vsc' or traction control systems?

I tried disconnecting the ground terminal on the battery to reset the computer, which seemed to work, but only for about 10 miles. So, when the lights came back on, I tried the same trick again, just for kicks, but the lights came on again, this time after 30 miles... go figure.

Anyways, now that it's been mentioned, I think I'll take some time later this week to at least take a look at my alternator connections and see if I can spot any problems there.



Thanks!

i still want to hear what happens with this, keep everyone updated

this sounds alot like the problem that i was having ....... after going to a 2nd dealer who actually contacted Japan to investigate the issue we found the following .....

the throttle cable (of all things) being misadjusted can cause the car to stall (which lights up the dash) .... it's been a month and the problem hasn't been back .... and i didn't pay a dime

Hi,

I was surfing around trying to find some answers to the problem that I've been having with my xB and I came across this post.

About a week ago my check engine light came on followed by both the 'vsc' and the 'trac off' lights. Since then, the idle has been rough, but I don't notice any difference in the way that the car runs otherwise.

I've been thinking about taking it down to the dealership, but I've been nervous about ending up in the same situation as you have described. I find it hard to swallow that the cause could be bad gas. Maybe I'll try a different station and see if that does the trick...

I was thinking that it could have something to do with the K&N Typhoon kit that I installed about two weeks ago, but would MAF sensor readings have anything to do with the 'vsc' or traction control systems?

I tried disconnecting the ground terminal on the battery to reset the computer, which seemed to work, but only for about 10 miles. So, when the lights came back on, I tried the same trick again, just for kicks, but the lights came on again, this time after 30 miles... go figure.

Anyways, now that it's been mentioned, I think I'll take some time later this week to at least take a look at my alternator connections and see if I can spot any problems there.



Thanks!

Another poster (I forget who, can't find the thread at the moment) had a similar problem that turned out to be an aftermarket wheel rubbing against the wheel speed sensor.

If you want to stay away from the dealership, find a place that will loan you a code reader, or get the code scanned (not cleared) at Pep Boys.

this sounds alot like the problem that i was having ....... after going to a 2nd dealer who actually contacted Japan to investigate the issue we found the following .....

the throttle cable (of all things) being misadjusted can cause the car to stall (which lights up the dash) .... it's been a month and the problem hasn't been back .... and i didn't pay a dime

I've heard of similar problems with the Celica GT-S and Matrix XRS that various people fixed by replacing the throttle position sensor ($$$) or the entire throttle body ($$$$$). Are they ever going to be ____ed off if it turns out the throttle cable was the problem.

this sounds alot like the problem that i was having ....... after going to a 2nd dealer who actually contacted Japan to investigate the issue we found the following .....

the throttle cable (of all things) being misadjusted can cause the car to stall (which lights up the dash) .... it's been a month and the problem hasn't been back .... and i didn't pay a dime

How was your problem similar/different?

This just in....'Scion Customer Experience' read this post and emailed me.

"We came across your posting in Scionlife.com. We truly apologize for the concern
you are having with your vehicle as well as the nnubmer of unsucessful attempts you
have taken to resolve the situation.

Please know that you can call us at 866-707-2466 (6AM-5PM PST, Monday - Friday) if you are needing further assistance. A Scion Specialist can assist you by working with dealer management and managing the progress of the vehicle's repairs. We thank you for your patience and again apologize for any inconvenience this experience may have caused you.

Scion Customer Experience"


I thought that was pretty cool. I have also received some followup calls from them and I just completed a survey for scionvoice.com. I mentioned everything that happened.

i would throw at least one headbutt. it doesnt hurt... well at least it doesnt hurt you.

She saved me over 600 bones on twisted seatbelts.What is with that?!?! My seatbelt almost always gets twisted. I am very careful with it now, since it took me an hour one day to get it back to normal.
but would MAF sensor readings have anything to do with the 'vsc' or traction control systems?I was told by the dealership that since those two lights are on the same fuse as the 'Check Engine' light, they will come on whenever the Check Engine light does.
the throttle cable (of all things) being misadjusted can cause the car to stall (which lights up the dash) .... it's been a month and the problem hasn't been back .... and i didn't pay a dimeI am guessing my problem was something similar to that and they just used the "bad gas story" to get some money out of me. Oh well, I'll never know.

i would throw at least one headbutt. it doesnt hurt... well at least it doesnt hurt you.SOMEBODY has a headbutt fetish. :shock:

theres no fetish. I just have had no good experiences at any toyota service department, and am fearful that this will continue with the scion. Being nice with the people at the service department really doesnt go so far, at least in my experience all they do is treat you like an idiot, and charge you for anything they can, like if you are paying for them to replace a brake caliper ( a job they need to remove the disc for anyway) they will try to charge you service for replaceing the disc, not just parts. On my list of places i dont want to go, the toyota service department is right up there with jail in russia and the dentist.

ok I have to chime in. Ever since you first made mention of the headbutt I started crackin up. Hell I am still laughin. Random headbutts lmao.

Contrary to what someone said above, there IS such a thing as "bad" gasoline. The most common problem is water in the fuel, and that is often caused by leaks in the gas station's tanks.

What dealer is this? I'm also in NoVA and want to avoid them like the plague.

Please do let us know who this dealer is so we NOVA folks can avoid them. I already have Antwerpen on my list based on Wickedxp04's experience. It's starting to sound like I'm gonna have to head south to get decent service from a dealership!

Bontster

Headbuts rule!