everyones worried about how the tC will perform STOCK...to most of us that means nothing...sure we'd like to see the trd s/c add some power to this car being under the warranty and all...but the truth is that this car would be great with potential esp since the price already beats out all competition...this means extra money for mods :D ...the 2.4L engine is a start...

so will the tC hold potential?

everything holds potential lol

expect mediocre gains from anything bolted on by TRD.. medocrity is TRD's game, and the Eaton SC is one of the least efficient blowers available.

obviously every car holds potential...but were talkin about cars that can actually perform here...so when i say "potential" im not talkin about modding a base corolla built to attract old people trying to get from point A to point B [/quote]

If you're hardcore, you'll rip out everything but the chassis... Then throw in a quad turbo V12 (Chrysler's ME412)

After which, you convert it to RWD, and maybe build the body out of 100% carbon fiber...

Then you're looking at maybe a 0 - 60 ~ 3 secs...

If you're hardcore, you'll rip out everything but the chassis... Then throw in a quad turbo V12 (Chrysler's ME412)

After which, you convert it to RWD, and maybe build the body out of 100% carbon fiber...

Then you're looking at maybe a 0 - 60 ~ 3 secs...

or you can throw in a quad turbo W16(bugatti 16/4 veyron)

and you can possibly hit 0-60 in 2 seconds haha

mmmmMMMMmmmm....Power

90% of users will drive it with stock power anyways. That's what I am planning.

Thats what I'm planning too...unless my dad wants to buy me the s/c that I can't afford. But the sound of a 0-60 in 2 sec.'s car is just yummy. Some day I tell you I WILL have a fast car!

alright but what about with only bolt ons?

i plan on driving it stock power for a while,too. i'll have to save money to mod it.

yea i wont have the money for much more than a few bolt ons at first...so i hope the stock numbers will be respectable

most cars are driven stock. we just happen to be on a board that share similiar interests.

I don't think the Buggati is a 2 sec car... It should still be 3 secs like most super cars...

As for serious tunning, you just have to wish for a turbo kit in the future... Racing mostly happens in the upper range of the RPM and if you plan on doing any of that, then a turbo is the way to go...

Mechanically, the fastest turbo is faster than the fastest supercharger spool... But this is to the extreme to which this block might not be able to take...

Another thing to worry about are all the axels and rods... Just everything that gets twisted needs to be babied once you up your power... IMO thats no fun, but heck, I'll settle for low 14's (with my audio ;))

Is it just me, or is the stroke/bore on the 2.4 not favorable for high amounts of boost. It isn't an entirely sqaure engine either. As for aftermaket-bosstability (if that is even a word), I don't think the 2.4 as seen in the camry is a good start. If it is reinforced properly, and compresson addressed, maybe it will survive under more boost.

I don't think the Buggati is a 2 sec car... It should still be 3 secs like most super cars...

a buggati isnt a 2 sec car. it is a 3 sec car. but it is possible to hit mid to low 2's from 0-60 if you take that engine and put it on a lightweight platform and have the body made out of carbon fiber.

I would have to dissagree... It's not the power or the weight... Trust me theres enough of both of that to make it go in maybe 1 sec...

The biggest problem is tire spin... You'll seriously have to run some very stick tires after a mad burnout to hit anything below 3...

Remember these cars are packing almost 1K worth of torque... They weight maybe 3000 - 4000 lbs and thats a hell of a lot of torque to move that weight...

But if you put it on a go kart... I dunno if you ever stop tire spin... You'll probably shred it before it's out of the trap...

you wont get that much tire spin if you are running on rough assphalt...

how do nitro drag cars run 4s in the 1/4 mile?

From very very sticky and VERY wide tires AFTER a very very very extreme burn out... they use the tire 1/4 mile at a time and it isn't what you'll find on a road legal super car...

Take a look at drag motorcycles... Their tires are so huge, they can stand upright without any kick stands...

The road surface is also dry and optimal for racing... In any less optimal conditions, drag races won't happen....

Without grip, power is uselss...

Also the rougher the surface, the less traction you have, the smoother the surface the more contact area you'll gian with the tire...

edit:

For more information about this extreme waste of gas of a sport, visit...

http://www.topfueltour.com/english/teknik.htm

This isn't a car going 4 sec 1/4 miles (sometimes 3) it is science....

it is science....

i havent taking physics yet...

but thanks for all the other info.

...

Nope, not if you keep the revs high... If you take a turn and keep the revs higher say ave turbo has boost around 4K, you'll never have turbo lag once the car moves...

Where as a S/C has most of it's advantages starting from a dead stop...

No one races through a turn at 2K rpm... Even on a hair pin they're driving upwards of 4K in 1st gear...

S/C is more useable in street driving, but for long course races, (constant load) a T/C would provide more punch since it has no upper limit and once you're rolling you've overcame the only downside to the T/C (Turbo Lag)... S/C are used in all top fuel dragsters too, so your point in a straight line is exact opposite since T/C will lag you and the S/C will provide boost all the way and cut off around the 1/4.... When talking extremes, the lag will fall you short of 3 seconds while the S/C will provide boost on demand...

Overall, T/C can be linked if done properly to obtain even greater boost, S/C is pretty much set and done...

Since we aren't looking for extremes, here are some regular driving side affects one might see using either devices...

S/C will be noticable quicker for local driving
S/C will be heavier and since boost usually happens in lower RPMs, you'll consume a bit more gas
S/C runs on the drive system so maintence will be a bit more costly

T/C runs on exhaust gas, so you might find yourself downshifting a lot to keep it in the power range to not bog (did I mention I'm a fan of downshifting :D :D :D)
T/C runs super hot, in which proper cooling must be considered before even thinking about the gains
T/C is usually lighter and easier to install, but constant monitoring must be obtained to ensure nothing melts down
T/C might even save you gas if you keep it in constant boost without fluctuation, (like long freeway drives with little hills and stoppage)

Still, factory installed parts should usually run with little to no problems for either, but S/C are usually more costly and ends up costing the owner a lot more down the road...

Since I don't plan on mashing my throttle at a dead stop to feel the G forces and wear my tires out, I'm hoping for a T/C because I like to boost after a steady roll say to an on ramp... This is easier on the car and it's easier on the tires... The only thing about the S/C I might consider is the fact that it'll help me move the extra 300 - 400 lbs worth of audio I plan to put in the car when I get it...

LOL, don't make me link this topic... WAY too many pages on this hot one :D

Turbos, superchargers...bugatti's...blah blah blah...i like how these rooms swing way off course...haha anyways turbonetics will offer a turbocharger for the tc.....throw in cold air....some headers....blitz ng 1 exhaust....a lighter flywheel...6 puck clutch...short shifter.....wires...blah blah blah....youll end up spending a wad....at least 3 to 4 G's for the turbo and another 3 grand for the other stuff...but if you shop wisely and take your time you might beable to squeeze out about 240-250 to the wheels.....and that will be enough to take on any civic...any integra...any stock rsx's and stock preludes...... good thing about the supercharger is if you finance the car you can just ad that to your payments......you wont have to drop a few grand all at once to like a turbo....and the warrenty...but yeah TRD sucks so thats a drawback.....i guess my point is if you have to ask how much power you cant get...you shouldnt even be worrying about it....leave it stock and have a nice day

obviously i need to learn how to type

Nope, not if you keep the revs high... If you take a turn and keep the revs higher say ave turbo has boost around 4K, you'll never have turbo lag once the car moves...

Where as a S/C has most of it's advantages starting from a dead stop...

No one races through a turn at 2K rpm... Even on a hair pin they're driving upwards of 4K in 1st gear...

S/C is more useable in street driving, but for long course races, (constant load) a T/C would provide more punch since it has no upper limit and once you're rolling you've overcame the only downside to the T/C (Turbo Lag)... S/C are used in all top fuel dragsters too, so your point in a straight line is exact opposite since T/C will lag you and the S/C will provide boost all the way and cut off around the 1/4.... When talking extremes, the lag will fall you short of 3 seconds while the S/C will provide boost on demand...

Overall, T/C can be linked if done properly to obtain even greater boost, S/C is pretty much set and done...

Since we aren't looking for extremes, here are some regular driving side affects one might see using either devices...

S/C will be noticable quicker for local driving
S/C will be heavier and since boost usually happens in lower RPMs, you'll consume a bit more gas
S/C runs on the drive system so maintence will be a bit more costly



you're obviously speaking of a roots type s/c.....the TRD s/c for the tc is a centrifugal type supercharger which works differently. Builds most of its power up in higher RPMS

Next Car = 02 Celica GTS,Scion Tc,or BMW 325Ci

youre seriously thinking of buying a celica or a tc when you have the option to buy a bwm?

Yes, a centrifugal would help it, but remember a S/C is belt driven... For the weight that it is and for the expense of the way it's powered, a S/C is never the suited for a constant load application...

S/C regardless of type, is still meant for acceleration from dead stops... These are most suited in drag races...

For a road course, you want something that is spooled and keeps on spooling... Spooling for exhaust means you're not wasting any energy preaping it and once you're rolling from the initial start, you'll never have to worry about losing power again...

Also, given the block can take the boost, you can have small turbos that spin fast or huge turbos that spin slow but huge boosts or add a hell of a lot of them to make any combo you want... (The FD uses different sized inline turbos to kill turbo lag which if anyone has driven one knows the power response is really good) A S/C has it's limits mechanically because it's more sophisticaed...

Once again, if someone wants to use the car for stop and go, then S/C is probably the way to go, I am considering it also depending on the torque curve...

A turbo is something for people who either don't know what a S/C is or want more power for the money... But not having the chance to always exert that power might not be as good for the vaule... Reason why I'm considering turbo is because I don't want to over torque the car at a dead stop where S/C is the most fun... Applying a boost after the car is fairly rolling at say 3K is much easier on the drive train in which I think this car might be built on...

Also, no one will turn this thing into a 250 mph road going Buggatti, we're just having fun on a forum :D

Edit:

Roots type S/C are almost discontinued in production cars because of it's inefficientcies, so I don't even consider that as an option when speaking of S/C... I mean centrifugal anytime I mention about a S/C...

Next Car = 02 Celica GTS,Scion Tc,or BMW 325Ci

youre seriously thinking of buying a celica or a tc when you have the option to buy a bwm?

well , im considering a new celica gt or scion tc...the bmw 3 series would have to be used and would still be more expensive. 'Still not sure how much im willing to spent.

let me ask u, on a $17-20K budget, which one would u buy?

Yes, a centrifugal would help it, but remember a S/C is belt driven... For the weight that it is and for the expense of the way it's powered, a S/C is never the suited for a constant load application...

S/C regardless of type, is still meant for acceleration from dead stops... These are most suited in drag races...

For a road course, you want something that is spooled and keeps on spooling... Spooling for exhaust means you're not wasting any energy preaping it and once you're rolling from the initial start, you'll never have to worry about losing power again...

Also, given the block can take the boost, you can have small turbos that spin fast or huge turbos that spin slow but huge boosts or add a hell of a lot of them to make any combo you want... (The FD uses different sized inline turbos to kill turbo lag which if anyone has driven one knows the power response is really good) A S/C has it's limits mechanically because it's more sophisticaed...

Once again, if someone wants to use the car for stop and go, then S/C is probably the way to go, I am considering it also depending on the torque curve...

A turbo is something for people who either don't know what a S/C is or want more power for the money... But not having the chance to always exert that power might not be as good for the vaule... Reason why I'm considering turbo is because I don't want to over torque the car at a dead stop where S/C is the most fun... Applying a boost after the car is fairly rolling at say 3K is much easier on the drive train in which I think this car might be built on...

Also, no one will turn this thing into a 250 mph road going Buggatti, we're just having fun on a forum :D

Edit:

Roots type S/C are almost discontinued in production cars because of it's inefficientcies, so I don't even consider that as an option when speaking of S/C... I mean centrifugal anytime I mention about a S/C...

hey man thanks for clearing that up. u make some good points

I don't know if you can get a GTS for 20K...

Also, you're not using the car like anyone else on this forum :D So just figure out what you want to do with your car and spend it that way :D

Stock wise, a GTS will smoke the tC...

Room will go to the tC

Price is also with the tC

features and options I would have to say tC

Proven track record goes to the GTS (we have nothing on the tC yet)

Both would make good driving cars anyways though.. So just figure out what you're gonna do with it... Performance is about 80% of a car IMO, but thats just cause I look at numbers a lot... Rarely use it... It's nice to know you have spare juice left tho...

well the GTS i wanted was listed at $27K so go figure. If i were to buy a GTS it would have to be used. I was thinking of a new GT . The tC looks incredible and i have a feeling im going to fall in love with it when i finally see it in person and drive it.

If you're talking about the GT, then I seriously don't see from a value stand point where the GT would be more benificial...

At least with the Matrix you get praticality... The GT has modability... (not even a word)

Hands down, the tC should be a better buy IMO over the GT since you can at least haul stuff around with more room and an extra two small people wouldn't be an issue either...

Still I'm talking out of my ___ since I have never seen a tC to this date...

yeah, im only considering a GT because i really like the celica with the TRD kit. I cant afford a new GTS , (like i told u...$27K, which is insane)...the tC is looking good but like u said we've only seen pictures of it.

Look at the veilside kit for the Celica... It's over the top but it's what I like in a kit :D

I'll post the link when I find the pic...

http://members.shaw.ca/fitnessfx/celica/veilside/

Scratch the headlights though... Those are hella whacked...

Anywho, this kit is cheap especially for a Veilside... It might look pretty FnF, but Veilside kits ARE tested to be aerodynamic so it isn't just for style... I know if I ever bought a Celica this is how it'll end up looking like...

Sorry for jumping way off topic...

thats a good looking kit. I like the kit they have for the Mr-s

I dunno if this helps any but I was able to order a gts for $22000 through a fleet salesman. I was able to choose the options I wanted instead of have'n to do the packages.

I've seen a TC rolling on the golden state freeway the other day. It was a blue color with Dealer plates. It look pretty clean.

Now I know I am biased, but every used GTS we have taken in trade (on the Toyota side)have been abused. Not to metion the problem with owners blowing engines from missing downshifts. At one point last month we had 4 GTS Celicas here in the same week. All for blown motors.

How did this all of a sudden jump to blown motors on GTS'?

And by missing downshifts you mean they over rev in nuetral? Or they go into gear at way too high of speed causing over rev? Those must be some novice people... Either that or they're super hardcore keeping redline...

^^^ i was at this one celica forum and i've read so many threads about blown motors. here is some of what i've read about blown motors in the gts. 1) since reverse is on the left side of 2nd gear, when people start to haul ___ in first then tries to get into 2nd, it goes into reverse. 2) when people are hauling ___ in 3rd gear, and is about to shift to 4th, it goes into 2nd. 3) when people are in high gears and wants to donwshift, they downshift into the wrong gear like instead of 4th to 3rd they go from 4th to 1st.

the celica's gearing are pretty close from what i've read.

Can sorta back that up. Test drove 2 GTS '04s. Found the gates close and hard to determine. Didn't start to get comfy till half way thru the 2nd test.

Ok, I haven't driven a GTS, but I'm sure a 6 speed MT box has it's nuetral point between 3 and 4 still like a 5 speed...

So missing a shift form 4 -> 3 or 3 -> 4 is just a very very bad driver... I have missed 4 -> 2 (well not miss but clunky) even in a 5 spd, but those two examples are just horrible... Some of those people should take driving school (or I should test drive a GTS)

TRD doesn't suck. They have an agenda, to put out smog legal parts and will pass emissions and won't burn the engine down to ____ of service writers.

Mission Accomplish!

If you want more and you UNDERSTAND superchargers, there is plenty were that came from.

There are plenty of fine examples out there of people running modified versions of Eaton superchargers and getting over 200hp on a regular basis, at the wheels. Being that the 2.4L is one of the larger engine availble to be boosted, it should make even more power with higher boost levels.

Twin Screw superchargers are better and cost a hell of alot more as well. You _____ about TRD blower sucks, well you would _____ even louder if they cost $4,000 or more, which is what a decent Twin Screw blower would run. If you want a Twin Screw blower so bad, go bug Whipple or Kenne-Bell to make up a Tc kit.

Whipple might do it if the interest is high enough, but the market that is going to buy these cars don't have any money. Don't tell me they do either, I know most cars build by people under 25 were build with college finacial support money. In fact, those under 25 with real jobs, they cars aren't nearly as modiifed as your average college students car. Poor College student! Ha! Some are, MOST ARENT...

Back on point -

Unless you really understand engines, don't comment on rod ratios and displacements and all that. You really won't know how good or bad the Tc is under the hood until somebody cracks one open. Suspectulation is great, but what works on one car doesn't always work on another.

That being said, Turbos and Superchargers do behave pretty much the same on all platforms... If the engine has peaky power, it will make peakish power with forced induction. If the engine is torquey then it will make good torque under boost and hellish mid-range power. O

n the street, that's what you want anyway....

Leave the RPM's to the F1 guys

Ok, I haven't driven a GTS, but I'm sure a 6 speed MT box has it's nuetral point between 3 and 4 still like a 5 speed...

So missing a shift form 4 -> 3 or 3 -> 4 is just a very very bad driver... I have missed 4 -> 2 (well not miss but clunky) even in a 5 spd, but those two examples are just horrible... Some of those people should take driving school (or I should test drive a GTS)

you should test drive the GTS and see how close the gearings are. the examples i used are from drivers who has driven manual for 5+ years. although im 15, i can tell if the gears are close compaired to the rsx-s(been in both).

You would enjoy test'n a gts KAuss.

I enjoy driving EVERY car :D

I love to drive... Or else I wouldn't be here!!!

I think that should be assumed for everyone... I'm not rich enough to be a picky driver :D

i like driving. but i dont drive much. still 15 and havent taking driving school yet. cars that i would be hella scared to drive are.... modded muscle cars, supercars and cars that are very fast. i drove my cousin's 01 civic with type s swap once, it didnt scare me at all. i wanna start driving more already... :( come on june... so i can start driving school

I like your moxie, KAuss.

I drive 3K / year in my 90 LS to save money because I only drive 1 mile to work...

When I had my WRX, I just drove 3.4K before I totalled it in 6 months... I've had my LS for 1.5 years now... So you can see how much useless road trips I took just to have a little fun... After work, I would just take the car and go one way along the freeway for 2 hours and drive back... Sometimes I'll just drive local for 3 hours and head on home...

I drove it to an i-Club meet and we went twisty owning with 60 other cars... This is when I learned stick for only 2 months!!!

Enough about my love to drive :D If I was ever rich, I'll design a race track in my back yard and drive nothing but people cars... Cars that actual real people drive...

That is my passion and this is the place I find tranquility :D

...

I want a house with go-kart track in the backyard and the nearest neighbor a mile away.

I want a house with go-kart track in the backyard and the nearest neighbor a mile away.

Yup. This I would enjoy. :D

How about a slick track too, so you can drift corners.

How about a slick track too, so you can drift corners.

daym, that would be fun

Sorry guys, you can't drift in a FWD car. It's called powersliding. Don't worry though, it's just a trend. Maybe if you slap enough TRD or NISMO stickers on your car, no one will be the wiser.

Sorry guys, you can't drift in a FWD car. It's called powersliding. Don't worry though, it's just a trend. Maybe if you slap enough TRD or NISMO stickers on your car, no one will be the wiser.

i think we're talking about go karts... well at least i am....

Bah...

Who cares? It's a 15 to 16k car. If you want something to go racing in buy a nice RWD car or something. I am so tired of reading people _____ about FWD cars and the fact that the tC is one. This car is going to be marketed as a sporty-econo class car. Just because Toyota is gladly going to help future "ricers" squeeze a few more horsepower out of the car here and there does not change that. :roll: