Don't know why this is bothering me, but after some investigation..I just have to ask: If the Scion's are being sold as "Pure Pricing", then why do the "Documents Fee's" differ so much? For instance, I have seached every dealers web site in Florida, and have found Documents Fee's anywhere from $35 to $700!! So, if I am willing to make the drive (Florida really ain't that big), I stand to save $665 from one dealer to another. If one dealer can 'process paperwork' for $35, why can't all of you do it?
Just venting, but I'd really like to know...

MattB

 

It just totally depends on the dealer - there's really no reasoning behind it. Mine were 349 dollars - it's a standard rate the dealer charges on all Toyota Motor Company and used vehicles here.

 

I understand that it can vary, but bottom line is I can get an xA or xB $600 cheaper from a dealership that is only 78 miles from my house, vs. the dealer that is 4 miles from my house...and the closer dealer won't touch it? I thought they were in business to sell cars, not keep them on the lot for show. Funny thing is, the closer dealer runs an add that says "We'll beat anybody's prices, or we'll pay you $10,000!!"...but the price of the car is the same...the docs fee are what is higher. So, long story short..I drove the 78 miles, got the $35 docs. fee, and my sales person found the color I wanted in less than a week. It will be in this friday..(she traded a hot lava to another dealer..just for me...how sweet).

MattB

 

It's my understanding that Fla. has no regulations on doc fees. So that amount varies widely by dealer. In Md. the state regulates the fee, $100 is standard issue here. If the dealer posts the doc fee at an unacceptable level I suppose the consumer would vote with his or her feet, as you did. Congratulations on your new Scion!

 

"Documentation Fee" is dealerspeak for "More Profit". It really seems to violate the concept of "Pure Pricing", IMO, as it allows the dealer to raise the real price of the vehicle while keeping the increase hidden from the customer until the end of the transaction.

I'm rather surprised that you were able to find out the documentation fee up front, as the dealers who tried to pull that sort of trick on me kept it concealed until they couldn't hide it any longer, and then revealed it only in a long tabulation of legitimate fees and taxes, hoping that it would be overlooked..

Perhaps if you charge the dealer a "Check Writing Fee" you could put things back on an even keel.

I cannot think of any other retail purchase in which the seller charges the buyer a fee for doing business. There are honest dealers out there that don't need junk fees to make a reasonable profit, since that profit is already built into "pure pricing".

 

haha..check wiriting fee...that's a good one there, wish I would have thought of that when I was at the first place. :D Either way, the dealers are getting it. My only hope is that anyone that is going in to buy a xA or xB in the future will read this, and do their homework before siging the dotted line.

MattB

 

:twisted: I am a dealer from wisconsin we dont get to launch scion till june 1st but we have already started taking orders on the cars and we do not have any fees no doc fees or check writing fees nothin like that. the dealers are just looking for a way to increase profit on something they know is going to take off that is why toyota made the pure pricing what ya build is what you get and again what you pay for not come on down and play find the hidden fees i feel ya and i wish i could provide the right scion experience but i am a ways away but keep a smile and enjoy yer new ride.
any questions call (60754-7754 or mail me @ patschenck@hessertoyota.com
seeeee yyyyaaaa :twisted:

 

I got mine at the sticker price. I was about to get a xB with a lot of accessories and the guy told me that they could bring down the prices on those. Just not the car.

 

You're right, dealers shouldn't be "hiding" this or any other fees. To be in compliance with Pure Pricing, the doc fee should be posted on the website and in the showroom. There shouldn't be any hiding this fee at all. We do not spring this "surprise fee" on the customer at the last minute. Being up front with the customer is the whole point of pure pricing. Pure Pricing is not the same as every dealer charges the same as everyone else. Pure Pricing is simply every customer is able to purchase the car/accessories etc... at the posted menu prices in your showroom and on your website.

In MA, I believe the state allows dealers to charge up to $250 to cover the cost of paperwork etc... It's not a junk fee to maximize profit. When I buy a car, or my family buys a car, we all pay the same fee. If we waive it for one person we risk opening the company up to litigation from someone claiming discrimination.

There are other industry's that have fees like this. Ever by a house? Did you pay any "closing fees" to the lender? Every lender I spoke to has application fees, credit bureau fees, closing costs, etc... Even the FHA loans have closing costs everyone has to pay when they purchase a loan through them.

 

First rule of business....

"Everything is negotiable!!!"

Actually, if you can find any inconsistencies between the dealers, you can report it to Toyota/Scion. They take it pretty seriously.

 

They take it very seriously. If corporate finds any issues with compliance, they first reduce our allocation and give the extra's to our competitors. If the problems continue, they can pull the whole franchise

 

I respect the fact that the dealers can charge (up to a state limit) a Documents Fee. What I am astonished at, is that one dealer wouldn't accomodate another dealers price to get the sale. In all my years of buying cars, I've never had a dealer not 'make the deal' (even if they did shaft me on the other side! ). I mean, it's not like I was going out of state, or even to the tip end of Florida...I just drove 75~ miles west (next city over) and got the lesser price.

MattB

 

Wow...do you really believe people are that naive..if it isn't a junk fee then why does it vary from dealer to dealer...even w/in the same state? Is the paperwork any more complicated in MA than CA...where i paid only $45...i find that extremely difficult to believe....

Secondly....you'd be discriminating if you charged one person the fee and and not another. Okay...you must be joking on this one! You're a car dealer! You sell people the same item to different prices to people everyday! So do you open yourself up to litigation when you sell one person a base Corrolla CE at $15K and another person the exact same car for $14K?

Please stop the bs

 

Matt,

I hear you. I can't believe the fees vary that much from dealer to dealer where you are. On a Scion that is Pure Priced, for one dealer to match the others price would be a convenant violation. On any other Toyota, I would be shocked if they wouldn't match it of the fee was the only discrepancy.

 

You must have had a really bad experience somewhere to be so hostile towards dealers.

I have no idea what kind of paperwork etc. CA requires. As for the fee varying, we are allowed to charge up to $250. Some dealers charge the maximum, some charge less. Every store has a different overhead structure, so they choose to charge different fees. If as a consumer, you choose to shop for a car based on who has a lower doc fee, so be it. Most of my customers are more concerned with how they are treated and the level of service my store has to offer than what the doc fee is.

Do you have a checking account? Does your bank charge you a monthly service fee? How about per check? What about ATM access? Different banks have different fee structures for their services. How come those fee vary from bank to bank in the same state?

Selling a car at a different price to people is not the same thing as waiving a fee for one person and not the other. Everyone knows that cars are negotiable. Everyone is given the same shot at working a deal. What we will a car for is not set in stone either, it varies day by day depending on how our day is going and what our inventory situation is. Because of this, how can you consider it discrimination if everyone is given the same shot to work out their best deal? The price of the car is a variable in the transaction, the doc fee is not. That's the difference. Do you walk into a bank and say I'll open an account with you if you waive my monthly maintenance fee? Or how about a mortgage lender? Would you go to one and say "Gee, I'd really like to borrow $300,000, but you have those closing costs. I'll tell you what, waive that $50 app fee, the $50 to run my credit and whatever else you have for 'junk' fees and I'll finance with you"?

Does it burn me that when I want some information on mortgages everyone wants $50 and an application before they'll do more than throw a few pamphlets at me? Absolutely! However, it's a cost that is associated with obtaining a mortgage. Same thing with a doc fee. It's a cost that's associated with buying a car. Why is this so hard to accept?

 

I think RI has one of the lowest Doc fees = $20. That is all RI allows

 

here's something i did unintentionally and worked out...
i went to a big dealer w/ a lot of scion sales guys and looked around took a couple test drives, but they didn't have what i wanted so i left. they called me a week later asking if there was something they could do to make me purchase, and i said "eliminate the dealer fee and don't add it somewhere else" and they were cool w/ it. the sales guys were not very educated w/ scions but helpful.

pm me if you want the Dealer's Name. they're in otown FL

 

Where did you get the doc fees for $35. I am in Orlando, I don't mind driving further if I have too..

 

Lake City.. Rountreescion.com. Head to Ocala, and then straight up I-75 and you are there.

Matt B

 

Thanks Matt, yea that's not that bad of a drive to save a few hundred dollars..