... please i know it's another turbo thread, but here me out.. i know the owners of this company personally...

anyways they are looking for 1 test subject.. and 10 other people to purchase this kit.
They are going to start engineering the kit soon and will finish production in 30 days..estimated MSRP will be round 3500 including everything... estimated power increase is 70 WHP.. If you havent heard of them, they have been around, just not big time. They are finally opening up their SHOP SHOP in the bay area. They have built numerous fast daily driven street cars..everything from hondas,toyota, to domestics. most recently a street driven 410 WHP saturn...

Now i know you guys dont want to see this.. BUT I can get this kit into production relatively quick, as i might be the test mule..

Please dont :roll: (i know you will) WHO's interested. I'm here to answer some of you questions.

70 WHP seems a little overly optimistic from a 1.5 rated at around 92 WHP stock yes?

Im interested, if everything is kosher...i got the scratch.

70 WHP is just about right.. considering revhards kit is 158WHP @ 7 psi

Are turbos automatically CARB approved/legal?

tell me more. want to know the facts. 1 test mule and 10 people at $3500. they need to lower the price a bit. only one test car and i'm gonna give them 3500. shiat what kinda warranty? what makes this company diserve our business more than say a greddy, revhard? besides the expected extra h.p.

Are turbos automatically CARB approved/legal?

no, they have to be tested for emissions which takes time and money

My big question would be warrenty also with only one test mule. The price is a little high also for the application it's designed for. What all is included in the kit to get this price?

70 WHP seems a little overly optimistic from a 1.5 rated at around 92 WHP stock yes?

108hp

7psi would add about 50% more power
thats a wee bit over 50hp

but the kit will include a headder and intake most likely
so maybe another 10

thats getting close

raise the boost to 8 or 9 and you are getting somewhere.

70 WHP seems a little overly optimistic from a 1.5 rated at around 92 WHP stock yes?

108hp

7psi would add about 50% more power
thats a wee bit over 50hp

but the kit will include a headder and intake most likely
so maybe another 10

thats getting close

raise the boost to 8 or 9 and you are getting somewhere.

108 at the engine. It is ~ 92 hp at the wheels which is what he was stating. Just like the first post stated the kit giving 70 hp at the wheels. I don't see that happening from a stock of 92 WHP also.

getting close to an 80% increase over WHP.....just seems too good to be true!Like getting 900 HP out of a viper just by supercharging.

70 WHP seems a little overly optimistic from a 1.5 rated at around 92 WHP stock yes?

108hp

7psi would add about 50% more power
thats a wee bit over 50hp

but the kit will include a headder and intake most likely
so maybe another 10

thats getting close

raise the boost to 8 or 9 and you are getting somewhere.

108 at the engine. It is ~ 92 hp at the wheels which is what he was stating. Just like the first post stated the kit giving 70 hp at the wheels. I don't see that happening from a stock of 92 WHP also.

dude, this is very possible but don't for myself or others on this board to be guinea pigs. that is why their warranty is important to me. if my ____ blows all to hell i want to know it will be fixed

getting close to an 80% increase over WHP.....just seems too good to be true!Like getting 900 HP out of a viper just by supercharging.
with the paxton supercharger its about 886hp

150-160whp at 7-8psi of boost should be no problem with proper tuning out of the 1nz-fe
revhards kit is 158WHP @ 7 psi
at 8 psi of boost i would expect to see somewhere around 168whp

The convention seems to be.....and this is just for people to get rough estimates........but.......you can expect about 8 hp for every 1 psi of boost. Again......this is just to get a ballpark figure......as all kits are going to be different......and there is a lot more to calculating the HP gain than just multiplying boost by 8. But when all is said and done.....if the kit is good.......the 8 hp rule seems to get you relatively close.

So......7 psi should get you in about the 54 extra hp ballpark.

For example. My previous car was a 1987 240 Volvo sporting the B230F engine with 114 hp at the crank.

My mom's car is a 1994 940 turbo Volvo sporting the B230FT engine (the T meaning turbo.....so, the turbo version of the engine in my 240). The stock turbo comes set at 7 psi. Horsepower at the crank is 168.

168-114= 54 additional hp.....right on the money for 7 psi

What this translates into at the wheels I don't know.

But....still....PSI times 8 is just a ballpark estimate. There's much more to it.

KiL

Al.Truistic wrote:
Are turbos automatically CARB approved/legal?


no, they have to be tested for emissions which takes time and money

I don't know of any revhard kits being carb exempt. Being carb exempt takes a lot of money and time. Thus usually only bigger companies have the money and time to do it (i.e. greddy). A lot of times you will see "pending carb exemption." THis may mean that they are trying to get carb exemption, but i have seen kits that have been out for over a year that still say "pending carb exemption." Basically I really doubt the revhard kit will ever recieve exemption.

To get 70WHP as stated you need to be pushing around 85 HP at the engine. As cool as this would be by just slaaping on a turbo I just don't see it being possible out of a 108hp engine. Unless some engine work is done also to handle that power increse.

This is why I would be interested in a warrenty since there will be one test mule with limited testing.

well he said 3500 for a kit right? so this means theres other stuff with it? well wouldn't the intercooler and possible larger piping increase the hp too? i'm just wondering if the the kit has sum extra stuff thats gonna make that extra 20 somin whp.

To run the boost to get that hp it would definately have to come with an intercooler. It would also need to come with an ecu to adjust the fuel/air ratios. You will probably also need to run larger fuel injectors and possibly another fuel pump to deliver it. Even then. How will the internals of this engine handle that boost. Will we need stronger pistons, rings, etc......

This is why they need more than one test mule and they should be on the test mules for at least 6 months to get everything working right before they sell them to the public. Either that or offer to replace the engine when the setup blows it.

Yea Kil, alot more to it.......
there an equation for it but heres some baselines:
7psi..........142whp
8psi..........149.5whp
9psi..........157whp
10psi........Damn near kaboom!!!!! I hope you stoped hear with a stock engine....

Yea Kil, alot more to it.......
there an equation for it but heres some baselines:
7psi..........142whp
8psi..........149.5whp
9psi..........157whp
10psi........Damn near kaboom!!!!! I hope you stoped hear with a stock engine....

It took us 5 months to kill a Del Sol Si (Single cam VTEC d16z6) @ 11psi - 12psi of pure beat down, no holds barred with a greddy kit. Just blew the rings haha.

Yea Kil, alot more to it.......
there an equation for it but heres some baselines:
7psi..........142whp
8psi..........149.5whp
9psi..........157whp
10psi........Damn near kaboom!!!!! I hope you stoped hear with a stock engine....

It took us 5 months to kill a Del Sol Si (Single cam VTEC d16z6) @ 11psi - 12psi of pure beat down, no holds barred with a greddy kit. Just blew the rings haha.

thats pretty much what always gets blown

Wow! Im gone for the weekend and look what happened!!FIRST OF ALL THANKS FOR ALL YOUR COMMENTS/QUESTIONS!! I REALLY APPRECIATE THE THE FACT THAT YOU GUYS ARENT TREATING IT LIKE HOW I EXPECTED!!...anyways for some of your questions...


First off for the 70 WHP increase..

Revhard.. 158WHP
stock 92WHP
-------------------
66 WHP

Get it? Got it? Good!

BTW Revhard's kit IS going to get CARB #s for the scion kit. I don't think any of their other kits have CARB #s. Also this is their only turbo kit that includes engine management. In the past they would just introduce the kit mani turbo etc. and it was the buyers responsibility to find fuel/management...*props to them!!*

Price is 3000-3500. Will include additional fuel, management, turbo, intercooler, and misc pipes clamps couplings blah blah. Parts will be Grade A prime beef.

And I would say that the estimate for the HP per boost is off by a bit. I would go to say as low @ 8 WHP. It is very dependant on the setup, turbo etc. Real goal for WHP per boost for them is 10 WHP.

As far as the warranty goes, that's something that I have yet to discuss with them. I understand that everyone is concerned since they will only be using one car for a test bed. I will ask them ASAP and get a response for you.

10psi should be no problem. Something like 8 is a good every day thing tho. But 10 shouldn't be too much of a problem. Also setup right there is no need for an intercooler. For example theres a camaro putting 700hp to the ground on 104octane turbo, no IC. Its all in the setup. Windshield washer fluid works wonders.

getting close to an 80% increase over WHP.....just seems too good to be true!Like getting 900 HP out of a viper just by supercharging.
with the paxton supercharger its about 886

From Paxton's web site
"Boost: 7.5
38% HP Gain
20% Torque Gain

Stock Power → Paxton Power**
450 → 621 Horsepower
490 → 589 lb./ft. Torque
**Supercharged HP and torque data shown is a calculated estimate based on percentage increases from actual wheel hp/tq measurements"

So i doubt the new 500 hp viper gains another 300 HP from the 50 hp stock increase!

Check your facts people!

If RedBox is offended by my questions I just want to stress that I am trying to get all the information so I can answer my customers questions. I have already reffered a customer to our local shop to get a Blitz supercharger installed and would like alternatives, but do not want to recommend a product I am not fully educated on. :evil: Silly me!

By no means am i offended by yours or anyones questions or comments. This is not MY turbo kit, it's a friend's shop. I am mearly answering questions you may have, and seeing the interest in the kit. I actually love doing this, because I feel like I am giving something to the community that has given me so much.

Anyways, I understand that you guys are not fully informed on the project, and i will update you guys and soon as I find out.

10psi should be no problem. Something like 8 is a good every day thing tho. But 10 shouldn't be too much of a problem. Also setup right there is no need for an intercooler. For example theres a camaro putting 700hp to the ground on 104octane turbo, no IC. Its all in the setup. Windshield washer fluid works wonders.

This really depends on the stock internals of the engine......the beefiness of the tranny......and the fuel delivering ability of the stock system. For instance.....and sorry for always going back to Volvos......but....it's what I know. Anyway......for instance............a 94 or 95 940 turbo is set stock at 7 psi. It can safely run about 11 to 14 psi with only minor work just to make sure the engine is in good running condition first. The car has nice thick rods.......good fuel management........and a tranny that will take around 275 hp.

This is not true for all cars. Our engines or trannies might pop at 9 psi.

KiL

10psi should be no problem. Something like 8 is a good every day thing tho. But 10 shouldn't be too much of a problem. Also setup right there is no need for an intercooler. For example theres a camaro putting 700hp to the ground on 104octane turbo, no IC. Its all in the setup. Windshield washer fluid works wonders.

This is totally irrelavent to the post
Who is gonna use 104 octane in their daily driver to kill the KR and who is going to run water injection all the time on the steet. That camaro is setup to run on the track like that and not has a daily driver.

Red Box,

thanksfor getting back to us. Keep the info flowing.

Could we please get details, such as Injector Sizes and what are they going to use for fuel and timing? Piggy Back ? Standalone? E-Manage? What size turbo? Intercooler? Boost Controller? What Style Manifold?

... please i know it's another turbo thread, but here me out.. i know the owners of this company personally...

anyways they are looking for 1 test subject.. and 10 other people to purchase this kit.
They are going to start engineering the kit soon and will finish production in 30 days..estimated MSRP will be round 3500 including everything... estimated power increase is 70 WHP.. If you havent heard of them, they have been around, just not big time. They are finally opening up their SHOP SHOP in the bay area. They have built numerous fast daily driven street cars..everything from hondas,toyota, to domestics. most recently a street driven 410 WHP saturn...

Now i know you guys dont want to see this.. BUT I can get this kit into production relatively quick, as i might be the test mule..

Please dont :roll: (i know you will) WHO's interested. I'm here to answer some of you questions.

ok myu first question is where are you located and my second is how long would i be out of a car?

Turbo kit update!!

First off, I apologize for the late update, I have been sick since last tuesday. Again I'm sorry.

Just got finished talking to my shop again, i will talk to them again tomorrow to get a final answers on everything...anyways here the new info...

Turbo kit list for right now is...

Turbo -small t3/t4, t25 or t28.. not sure as of yet... they will R&D to find the perfect match for response/power.
Manifold
DP
Intercooler
All misc piping/hardware
injectors /management

On a side note, the R&D company is aiming for 180WHP.

I told them that all of you are concerned with reliability and what not.. and told them that you all were asking for a guarantee.. they said and i quote..

".....WE GAURANTEE DEFINATELY....."

R&D will take place in Ohio @ a big name R&D company. Name cannot be released. Kit will be $3600+ tax and shipping to you door when it is completed. Kit will take 2 weeks once the box is in ohio to complete, and complete ready to ship kits will be available 30 days after the first is completed. I need 5 pre orders to get this started
Deposits are fine. I asked bout hooking you guys up with a deal.. this is the best I can do AS OF RIGHT NOW.. im sure the first 5 people to get this are going to get a deal.... ill will work that out later.. but i need at LEAST 5 SERIOUS PEOPLE in order to get this started!! For right now I have $3600 NO TAX FREE SHIPPING. So I suggest all you California guys get in on it. Because you'll be saving $300 on the tax alone. More info to follow!!

Lets get this started guys!! Why wait for companies to release their kit, when we can be in control of when this one is released!!

Im willing to be the test car, however does this mean I get the kit free. I am honestly thinking about it if this is the case. Thank you.

ok, here I go. We are talking about a turbo kit thats gonna help our scions get more power than the greddy yet, we are all in disbelief because of results from american car superchargers. I think we need to have a little faith in "The Red Box" since he was a DSM guy and now remember that no one is gettin anyting free unless it was asked.

Will this kit be tested on a car first? If so for how long? If not will they warrenty the kit and the engine?

very interested
need some questions answered:
1. for $3500 what is included?
2. CARB approved?
3. actual whp gain?
4. accessibilty for repairs or rebuilds
5. im from so.cal. who can do the install if i do purchase?
6. warranty info?

if i have more q's ill ask...das all for now, thanx in advance :wink:

very interested
need some questions answered:
1. for $3500 what is included?
2. CARB approved?
3. actual whp gain?
4. accessibilty for repairs or rebuilds
5. im from so.cal. who can do the install if i do purchase?
6. warranty info?

if i have more q's ill ask...das all for now, thanx in advance :wink:

Good Questions! :shock:

Why would someone want to get this kit before its tested? What's in it for the first 5 people besides a lot of risk? While you say that there is only one test car, in reality all the cars that have it on will be test cars, but just not for free. I may not be understanding this right and if so I apologize. But as someone who has consulted for many different types of companies I can tell you that I have never heard of anyone charging retail price for an untested product. I understand that there is a lot of risk for a small company both raising and sinking capital into a product like this, but that is business man. Maybe I should keep my ___ out of this as I have an auto trans and am waiting for feedback on a SC, but if I were one of the first five folks getting this, I would want it a cost. These fist five people are going to be ambassadors for the company and their most effective means of advertisement and should be recognized as such with the pricing. Charge the people who didn't take the risk of an untested product $3,600.

Anyway, I hope to hear great things about this turbo and I love that small companies are getting excited about our xB's and developing products for them! :D

Here's a email i have received from the company. This will hopefully answer some questions.

"I'm John from Twistec performance. We are the one that
will have the new turbo kit on the market. I know
everyone has lot of questions. I am here to clear some
of them up.

The biggest question we are get is what come in the
kit. I know our kit is not the cheapest kit on the
market. I do know that our kit will justify the extra
money when you receive the kit. All of our kit come
complete I am not sure every exact detail of the kit
because we have not done the R&D yet. When you receive
the kit it will include everything to bolt on. Your
will receive a manifold, New turbo, FMIC that will fit
the scion. The first ten will be able to pick the
color at no charge for the IC piping. The manage
management is where it becomes gray. We may just need
injectors up to a full management system. I can't tell
you for sure until I have a box here to work on.


Warranty we have no warranty when it comes to any of
our turbo systems. Twistec does warranty the
workmanship of any thing we build including turbo
kits. We don't get a warranty on turbos so there is no
way we can warranty them. The time of the design and
engineering of all of our products is what makes are
kits look hotter, perform better, and last longer than
any other kit on the market. We do our best to give
our customers the best products for there investment.

Fuel Management Every one of our kit have a range
of management systems we use a combination of the
components from injectors to full stand alone systems.
I will not truly know what will work best on the scion
until I have one in my hands.

Turbo's Anyone that knows turbo's some of the most
commonly used turbos are T28,16G, T3/T4. Twistec will
try different combinations to give you the best flow
and response for anything we do.

To me this is the most important question to answer.
What qualifications does Twistec have to work on my
car?

Twistec started building turbo's by hand 13 years ago.
After having great success on the Saturn market we
are still building every product by hand for our
customers. The scion is no exception the turbo that we
design for you car will enhance the beauty, styling,
and performance of your scion. We as a whole would
love to provide the scion community with the service
and advice and, the same respect as our Jbody and SRT4
customers are already receiving.

Why would we look into a turbo kit for a scion?
The scion falls in the same category as the Saturn, SC
and the Jbodys. The car has lots of potential is
affordable and most important just a fun car to drive.
I felt it is important as manager of Twistec products
to prove to you. If you invest you time and money with
Twistec we together can make the best turbo on the
market. If you have any question feel free to contact
me.

Thanks John
www.twistecproducts.com
john@twistecproducts.com
(440) 323-8555 "

I will get the questions above answered as well. :D

I'm new to this forum, a prospective xB owner, just checking out the potential to make a bit more power than is available from the factory.

I've got quite a bit of experience with DSMs and turbos in general. Expecting a 70Whp gain from a t-25 on an engine as small as the xB's is just a little over-optimistic. Especially with less than 10lbs of boost. For example, a 2liter 2nd Gen Eclipse barely makes 180Whp pushing 12-14psi of boost. (using the same t-25 turbocharger) That's a half liter more displacement as well as an engine that was built to be boosted in the first place. As I stated I'm new to Scions, but I'd guess that the c/r of the engine is greater than 10:1... not exactly ideal for boosted applications. Has any consideration been given to ways of lowering the compression to more boost friendly levels? The stock FP and injectors will definitly be insufficient for turbocharging. The ECU would not be sufficient either, warrarnting an AFC at the least. When you throw a FMIC into the mix you'll soon see higher temps in the engine bay, will the stock Radiator and fans be sufficient to keep the engine cool? Or will you need an aluminum radiator and larger/additional fans? Supposing you solve all of these issues, is the drivetrain stout enough to handle the newfound power? Or will that stock clutch fry in a month taking the flywheel with it? Will the tranny be able to take the dramatic increase in torque that turbocharging brings with it? Last but not least... would this kind of modification void the warranty on the vehicle?

If I do purchase an xB I'd love to boost it, but not if it would void the warranty. Ideally Toyota would find a way to offer the 1.8 from the Celica/Matrix... possibly turbocharged from the factory. Maybe as a TRD model...

tell twistec, that i am their man for their R&D..... just searched turbos came across this, if you have a phone number i can call them and arange something.... i will drive my car from ct all the way to ohio, if the kit is free of charge.... if 186hp is in my future, so is their kit...........thanks ......lemme know man................thanks..........

interested...

keep the updates and provide details...

sen-

if you want a market for your product.. let everything be known.

hmmm...months later and still no response?? Looks like its back to TSI, Greddy or custom once again... :rofl:

while were talking about the tsi turbo..... how is it..... i am getting that kit, considering people who claim higher numbers, dont respond when u have questions....... but anyways, are the gains good.... exactly how is the kit, i mean faster than the pe300 s/c kit?...... i want a turbo but not if im gunna have to do all this work and not have great results..... help me out simp..... stuart ahs the same kit correct?...... i know that alot of people on scionlife have tsi turbo kits, and none of them praise it, or state gains, or anything like that ........ help me out plz..............thx..........

I will praise the kit all day long. Remember this, the xB will never be a race car. It gives fun and noticeable gains. Since installing the kit, its been alot more fun to drive. TSI has changed alot in the kit. The i/c piping now fits, and there is no need to "massage" the firewall. You do have to pull the oil feed off the turbo to get it to go in. But other than that, the kit is straight forward and easy to install. Just very very time consuming when you did as much as me and Vito. I have yet to get it to the dyno so I dont want to post anything about true gains. But as soon as I do, I will post them up. The only thing I have run into so far that you need that doesnt come in the kit is an oil pressure restrictor as the turbo doesnt like the 100psi of oil pressure you throw at it....

cant wait...

sen.