just to refresh -- rumors earlier this year reported that Scions were to be built in Canada at the new Toyota plant being built. these rumors have since been squashed. but now, this: ( from insideline (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=107584))
Date Posted 10-14-2005

TOKYO — Toyota is thinking about building Scion vehicles in the United States, according to a story in a Japanese newspaper.

The Nikkan Kogyo Shimbun reported Toyota could use spare capacity at Subaru's underused Subaru of Indiana Automotive (SIA) plant in Indiana to build the Scion, the super-successful Toyota youth brand that sold 100,000 units in 2004.

The paper said Toyota originally planned to build the Scion at its second, $650 million Canadian plant, in Cambridge, Ontario, which will start to build the new RAV4 in 2008. But the automaker has since calculated that it could go into SIA with less initial investment and could make ends meet even with small cars that have low profit margins, the paper reported.

Things evidently are moving fast with the Toyota-Subaru tie-up, announced October 5. Toyota now has bought an 8.7-percent stake in Fuji Heavy Industries, Subaru's parent company, for about $315 million. And already the Japanese media has reported Toyota wants to build 100,000 extra cars a year in the United States using SIA production lines. Subaru, in turn, is looking to reduce costs by tapping into Toyota's supplier base, and reportedly has already asked Toyota to supply it with a new small car to sell in Europe.

What this means to you: Scion is primed to go big time in the United States, with a little help from Subaru.

i just don't buy the idea that they are going to have subaru manufacture scions.. unless the ceo of toyota is a liar.. he already said scions would continue to be made in japan..

but thanks for the info..

I work for a auto manufacturer and from what I've seen all the car companies today are tied in with each other. We are currently working with other manufactures on a " world engine" to be used in imports and domestics?!

why build it in the US? the reason why i got my xB is because its 100% made in Japan...

yeah bB626, exactly.. after all that "yelling" online about don't make it in n. america.. the ceo of toyota said that they wouldn't shift production.. hopefully he's telling the truth.. i like my tC is built in japan!

Me too!!! That is why I want a Scion not US made!!

i wish they would make more scions period!

:pray:

...i want more models , not more xAs , xBs or tCs.
...the two seater conv....the slick 4dr...the urban pickup..
...Toyota , now knows ( with high gas costs ) people want cool little well-equipted vehicles .

I simply like the idea that my tC is made in japan ... specifically for the us.

That suks cause its means that the Price will be higher. Design and Motor might be made different than Japan. Engine might not be as powerful as before since the Americans would make the car. Its like Scion mix with Chevy all together imagine that ewwww!

That suks cause its means that the Price will be higher. Design and Motor might be made different than Japan. Engine might not be as powerful as before since the Americans would make the car. Its like Scion mix with Chevy all together imagine that ewwww!

Actually it would keep the cost down. Indiana is pretty close to Toyota's North American Technical Center in Michigan. None of the Scions are that powerful. All motor specs are designed by Toyota engineers. Power is limited by emissions (CAlifornia motors seems to be the lowest compared to other states), people's mind set of paying for a powerful car, and purpose. Americans have made the Camry for some time. Even the Tacoma are made by UAW-GM workers at NUMMI and a few newer Taco's made in Mexico.

Speaking of Toyota mixing with Chevy: Chevy Prism=Toyota Corolla. Pontiac Vibe=Toyota Matrix Reasons why the Prisms continue to move around is because most if not all specifications for that car was primarily designed by Toyota especially the powerplant.

Thats actually a smart business move for Toyota to build scions in the US since They will not have to import cars anymore.. Which will eliminate tairiffs. (for the idiots) thats the taxes on imports.. its all about saving money.. I say go Toyota I'm very satisfied with my xB who cars if its built in the USA?

oooo indiana = cheaper parts and its local!!!

Thats actually a smart business move for Toyota to build scions in the US since They will not have to import cars anymore.. Which will eliminate tairiffs. (for the idiots) thats the taxes on imports.. its all about saving money.. I say go Toyota I'm very satisfied with my xB who cars if its built in the USA?

Those of us that have driven Ford's over the past 10 years certainly care if a car is built in the US! The tarriff argument is not valid since they would have to pay higher labor costs in the US. Toyota is a smart company, they built Scions in Japan for a reason and it has worked out great for them. Why would they change that?

Japan is one of the most expensive countrys in the world to live in do you really think they pay their laborers less than what they would in the US.. Reguardless I'm sure that the labor and tairiff rates would ultimatly be more than making a car in the U.S. not to mention shipping all the way from Japan to the U.S. :loser:

That suks cause its means that the Price will be higher. Design and Motor might be made different than Japan. Engine might not be as powerful as before since the Americans would make the car. Its like Scion mix with Chevy all together imagine that ewwww!

As Powerful? :rofl: As what?

they better build it in the USA... they are farming out to many of the USA Job to forign contries.... That what happens with have a guy like bush that let these thing happen... Bush Can Kiss My azz!!

some of u guys are lame. jus bc the car is gonna be built in the U.S doesnt mean its gonna be ____. The reason their built in japan in the first place was because japan was already manufacturing the xA,xB (iSt, bB). I think its better cause scion is in high demand, and theres always none at the dealership. and like marshall said, more jobs.

they better build it in the USA... they are farming out to many of the USA Job to forign contries.... That what happens with have a guy like bush that let these thing happen... Bush Can Kiss My azz!!

Read what you just wrote!!!! Its no wonder the manufacturers feel the need to go outside the US for labor.

Read what you just wrote!!!! Its no wonder the manufacturers feel the need to go outside the US for labor.[/quote]


My thoughts exactly :doh:

they better build it in the USA... they are farming out to many of the USA Job to forign contries.... That what happens with have a guy like bush that let these thing happen... Bush Can Kiss My azz!!

Read what you just wrote!!!! Its no wonder the manufacturers feel the need to go outside the US for labor.

what reason is that?

LOL and thats why im a mechanic not not someone that types for a living. to much out sourcing going on in the USA.. for cheap labor in which the poor willl work for less.

As long as they keep the quality up I would rather buy a US built car. It's just seems that if you put 2 cars side by side, 1 US built and 1 Japanese built the Japanese built car is higher in quality :tap: . It's a shame for the American worker.

OK!
Now that we are all split over Japan Built or American Built..
Can you really tell where it is built at Not given a VIN number to reference it!>????

No you would not!

All the parts have english and japanees writen on them.. so whats the difference>?

there isn't one!

But one thing we have to remember~ TOYOTA is as JAPANESE Company Corprately Incorporated in Japan! We in the USA are just little distributors ie L.A.'s, SET's, GST's, CHI's, CIN's, N.Y.'s to name a few..

Just a note to make you think...

Its a mistake to build in america, i guarantee you the sticker price will be higher and question whether quality will be the same.

OK!
Now that we are all split over Japan Built or American Built..
But one thing we have to remember~ TOYOTA is as JAPANESE Company Corprately Incorporated in Japan! We in the USA are just little distributors ie L.A.'s, SET's, GST's, CHI's, CIN's, N.Y.'s to name a few..

Just a note to make you think...

Heard a "MotorTrend" radio cast yesterday. One of the features dealt with Mitsubishi, their new truck, and their general marketing strategy. They are going full force to make sure the US buyer understands they are the oldest Japanese auto manufacturer. Apparently they've discovered JDM sells.

when the car falls apart after 80, 000 miles then you know that it was built in the U.S

^what nonsense.

Japan is one of the most expensive countrys in the world to live in do you really think they pay their laborers less than what they would in the US.. Reguardless I'm sure that the labor and tairiff rates would ultimatly be more than making a car in the U.S. not to mention shipping all the way from Japan to the U.S. :loser:

If you understood anything about marginal productivity, you'd know why it makes sense to build Scions in Japan. You've seen how labor unions have destroyed GM and lack of quality and innovation have moved Ford into junk status. It won't be long before the UAW turns it's attention to a profitable company, mainly Toyota or Honda.

Also, I might take you seriously if you learned how to spell.

OK!
Now that we are all split over Japan Built or American Built..
Can you really tell where it is built at Not given a VIN number to reference it!>????

No you would not!

All the parts have english and japanees writen on them.. so whats the difference>?

there isn't one!

But one thing we have to remember~ TOYOTA is as JAPANESE Company Corprately Incorporated in Japan! We in the USA are just little distributors ie L.A.'s, SET's, GST's, CHI's, CIN's, N.Y.'s to name a few..

Just a note to make you think...
Look at the glass, if it says Nippon Safety on the glass it's made in Japan, I think US made cars says PPG or something similar to that. Also Toyota and other Japanese manufacturers like to ship their cars over seas without the bumpers, so if they don't match they're Japanese made. And heres the kicker, after 50,000 Miles, if the car puts the same if not more power to the wheels on the dyno as the day you bought it, it MUST be Japanese made! :yawn:

And heres the kicker, after 50,000 Miles, if the car puts the same if not more power to the wheels on the dyno as the day you bought it, it MUST be Japanese made! :yawn:

Really? That should become part of regularly scheduled, government mandated, testing :lalala:

How crazy but true is this. The Honda NSX (Acura NSX in the US) is known to to have a higher power output as it gets older. (More miles = More power) That's most likely why Honda's and toyotas always have high miles and always stay on the road. I own a 1981 Toyota Corolla which has about 450,000 miles on it, its never been rebuilt, on stock suspension and still runs like a champ, the suspension is scary as hell tho, all it ever got was regular tune ups. My Scion got about 50,000 miles on it and it puts out more power bone stock than other Scions that got dynoed at my school. And my sisters Saturn SL1 has about 100,000 miles on it and its already falling apart, and the tranny is about to take a ____ on her.

I don't want some fat, lazy American building my car on Monday when he is hungover from watching football.

Toyota keeps their best robotics and production equipment in Japan and out of the US factories because they are afraid of corporate espionage.

The Subaru's built in those factories weren't as well made as the ones made in Japan (look at the Baja), why would the Toyota's be different?

I am confused by all of the comments of American Assemblers "destroying the quality of the car".
American cars made in america during the eighties were of low quality BY DESIGN. It is engineering and management decisions that can take quality out of a vehicle system.

Let us compare some of my experiences with American MFG plants...1 ford assy in Chicago area, 1 toy assy in Indiana and 1 sub assy in Indiana.
1.) The majority of assembly workers were middle aged caucasion males at all 3 plants
2.) The Toyota plant had 2 rework bays at the end of an assembly line, the subaru plant had 3 rework bays at the end of an assembly line, and the ford plant had 12+rework bays and a large holding area inside the plant.
3.) Toyota focuses on designing parts so that the largest tolerences can be used at interaction locations, Subaru creates tolerence specifications on parts that push the limit of accepted manufacturing standards, and Ford hires lots of inexperienced and contract "engineers" to try to fix the problems after the fact!!!
4.) Toyota has a problem: they ask me to be there within 24 hours, and I meet with a representative from Manufacturing, Engineering and Management to help solve the problem. Subaru has a problem: they send an engineer to my facility within 24 hours to help solve the problem. Ford has a problem: they demand that I arrive at their plant immediately...and then I wait for about an hour before anyone can meet with me (fortunately we pay a former Ford employee a large salary to be our 'Plant Liason' so that he can escort us around and we can look into the cause of the problem on our own unencombered)...then I have to attend several different meetings with lots of different engineers and managers with large gaps inbetween meetings...then I am escorted by a gaggle of engineers to where the problem is occuring with my parts in their assembly process...I am surrounded by at least eight engineers at any given time and I watch the entire line shut down due to a robot malfunction...not ONE engineer near me knows anything about programming said robot...I step in and fix the problem with robot, engineers stare in amazement at me...one of the many managers that yelled and berated me earlier in one of several meetings calls an engineer on cell phone to ask if I have figured out what the problem is...I have meeting explaining that one issue of problem is Ford dictating our supplier who uses up all tolerence allowed for the assembly we make...we offer alternate supplier who can make better parts at half the price and Ford management declines saying it is MY PROBLEM, NOT THEIRS...I counteroffer about changing sheet metal and offer to pay all engineering costs involved and they say NO...in the end I am forced into handshake with another Ford supplier (to be unnamed seal company) who will get paid lots of money to alter their product to patch up the large tolerence in mine due to forced crappy Ford supplier chain.
5.) Toyota problem solved in 24 hours with cost savings, subaru problem solved in 48 hours without any increase to cost, ford problem compromised on and requires constant renogiation and costs skyrocket over the next two weeks.

:blah: :blah:

"Made in Japan"
Vs.
"Made in America"
Just the idea of having a Toyota made in Japan says it'll easily last 10+ years. On the other hand, American made... you'd be lucky if it "survives" 10 years without any major problems/recalls.
I share the same opinions that others have shared (in previous posts) when it comes to the reliability factor of a Japanese made vehicles. Autos made by Japanese manufacturers in America just don't have the credibility that "Made in Japan" has.
Tons of Japanese automakers are starting to seriously compete with the big doggs (Toyota & Honda) of the industry (primarily Nissan and Mitsu) with their styling already up to par.. :ponder: ...
The best thing Toyota has going is their QUALITY of Reliability and to dilute any aspect of that would drastically change the peoples perception of Toyota.
:idea: Question for you ~ Toyota: Do you want to Lead or do u want to follow? Will you be defining the standards or will u simply comply to them? Are vehicles going to be made to exceed expectations or simply meet them?
The Ball is in your court Toyota.

Great article in the Wall St. Journal today about Delphi and GM. GM's average laborer is paid on a total compensation basis (health insurance, pension and wage) $65/hour. In order for GM to stay afloat, that's going to have be cut to $20/hour total. Now tell me again how labor is cheaper in the US?

I'm with roketsciontist... it's not where it's made but how. Toyota philosophy & culture won't allow a crappy product.

So make it here, make it there, as long as the price stays right and the style stays cool, I really don't care.

As a manufacturing engineering major, I am really appreciating the frankness and honesty of the views expressed on this thread. If this isn't lighting a fire up under American manufacturers' @$$es, I don't know what will.

I've owned my Scion for a little over a month now, and let me tell you: American auto manufacturers will have to try very, very hard to get me to buy American again.

In engineering schools right now, students are being taught quality engineering principles and techniques that have been around since the 1950s. This isn't new stuff, but what is troubling is that the Japanese learned these principles quickly and in 20 years they've become a threat to the American auto industry. Only now are the Americans catching on, and so are our engineering students.

The problem therefore is that of a cultural difference between American and Japanese industries. Americans, for the most part, are very hard-working, but are bogged down by management. The workers then form unions, but it ultimately becomes a detriment to the company.

In a Japanese firm, however, all workers have a stake, or a say, in the direction of the company. There is no visible division between management and the assembly line, and the emphasis of automotive design is to put your priorities on the design of the product. If the design is a success, manufacturing will be cheaper and your end product will have high quality and reliability.

As long as American corporations continue to hold down workers and unions keep firing back with threats, we will never produce a single automobile that will rival a Japanese one in terms of long-term quality and reliability.

The differences between Japanese (group centered) and American (individual first) culture play a part in the success of the Japanese auto industry, but don't forget that the Japanese government helps them out a lot more than our government does, not only tax breaks and typical government incentives, but by manipulating the yen.

Rocketsciontist is on point also....the corporate culture at GM and Ford is just broken beyond repair.

I would rather have a car made in Japan because I don't trust my fellow Americans. Look at the incomptence you encouter every day - on the road, at the supermarket, at work, on TV, in the news......we're a lazy socitey and it shows in our products. We have no pride.

The US Auto company's and its suppliers need to change their culture and apply Six Sigma..... it has to be a grass roots movement..Toyota uses these process's

there is an interesting comment made by autoblog.com on this topic.
http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000093063845/
It’s likely also part of Toyota’s recent efforts to avoid governmental protectism for the Big 3, as the Scion in particular has been the target of some mumbled allegations of “dumping”
has anyone else heard/read anything about these dumping allegations?

has anyone else heard/read anything about these dumping allegations?

I can tell you that they aren't making anything close to a profit on every Prius they sell, that's for sure.

I would rather have a car made in Japan because I don't trust my fellow Americans.

What about the technicians that inspect your scion again before you ever even see it to make sure there are no defaults that need to be addressed before it's put on the lot.... or the ones who fix your lovely little scion whenever it happens to break?

So even though I work my ___ off in school, getting my degree... all my toyota certifications... work two jobs to do it and keep up with homework... do you not trust me, as an American, to fix your car, or even make sure it's fit for you to buy in the first place.

Even coming from Japan.. they don't all come in perfect condition... we go through them with our check list and find pleanty of problems, from Japan, that we have to fix before we can even sell the car (cost gets charged back to Toyota, so no added cost to you)

But still.... "Made in Japan" does not equal perfect. However, Toyota Quality equals Better than the rest, period. Thanks in part to AMERICAN technicians.

Killa -

No beef, but as I'm sure everyone on this board can attest, the quality of automotive technicians, of all makes, is spotty at best. I'm sure everyone has a horror story of being screwed by the dealer, someone not fixing something, someone doing an unecessary repair, overcharging etc.

To answer you question, I trust the technicians who work on my car even less than the people that build it. Look at all the people who can't get their rattles fixed.

There are plenty of really good techs, but there are also plenty of morons and until you get your car back at the end of the day you don't know who worked on it.

Heard a "MotorTrend" radio cast yesterday. One of the features dealt with Mitsubishi, their new truck, and their general marketing strategy. They are going full force to make sure the US buyer understands they are the oldest Japanese auto manufacturer. Apparently they've discovered JDM sells.

Listened to another edition of this radio mag. Found out the new Mitsubishi truck is a Dodge Dakota reskinned. Marketing is a wonderful thing.

My mom drives a 2002 Honda Osyssey, She has about 45,000 Miles on it. It was built in the USA (Ohio If I am not mistaken). Since she bought it in August 2002 its been Recalled for:
1.) A faulty shift into second gear, so Honda installed an Oil Jet kit, or replaced the complete transmission.
2.) A faulty EGR valve, it was replaced by Honda.
3.) The water Pump castings on the V6 motors for that year was bad so they had to replace that cuz the belts were getting messed up, Honda Replaced that.
4.) The timing belt tensioner is bad and it made a mess in my mom's engine bay, Honda replaced that in compliance of a recall.
5.) And some of the V6 blocks were made poorly and is known to be porus, Honda released a TSB for it, if it is found to be porus The dealer mechanic is to use JB weld to seal the leak.

Now my Scion was Built in Aichi, Japan in December 2003, I have 50,000 Miles on her and the only recalls I had were:
1.) The Gas tank was replaced because the filler pipe was too small and clicks off too early. No Drivability problems.
2.) The A/C was replaced for a stronger one. I live in LA It can get hot out here.
3. The Pioneer Stereo skipps and my CD got stuck in it, It's a USDM mode so naturally it sucks donkey balls, even the new one had the same problems.

This is why all my cars will be Japanese built IN JAPAN!

My mom drives a 2002 Honda Osyssey, She has about 45,000 Miles on it. It was built in the USA (Ohio If I am not mistaken). Since she bought it in August 2002 its been Recalled for:
1.) A faulty shift into second gear, so Honda installed an Oil Jet kit, or replaced the complete transmission.
2.) A faulty EGR valve, it was replaced by Honda.
3.) The water Pump castings on the V6 motors for that year was bad so they had to replace that cuz the belts were getting messed up, Honda Replaced that.
4.) The timing belt tensioner is bad and it made a mess in my mom's engine bay, Honda replaced that in compliance of a recall.
5.) And some of the V6 blocks were made poorly and is known to be porus, Honda released a TSB for it, if it is found to be porus The dealer mechanic is to use JB weld to seal the leak.

Now my Scion was Built in Aichi, Japan in December 2003, I have 50,000 Miles on her and the only recalls I had were:
1.) The Gas tank was replaced because the filler pipe was too small and clicks off too early. No Drivability problems.
2.) The A/C was replaced for a stronger one. I live in LA It can get hot out here.
3. The Pioneer Stereo skipps and my CD got stuck in it, It's a USDM mode so naturally it sucks donkey balls, even the new one had the same problems.

This is why all my cars will be Japanese built IN JAPAN!

HARROW! I still vote for Japan, HAREGATO JAPAN! HAREGATO JAPAN! you Japanese make the best cars in the world!!!!!!
You Japanese always beat those Big Amercan Cars with V8 engines or higher!(High on Gas) while Japanese only build 4 cylinder (Low on Gas) cars that could beat a bigger engine.... ah-ha! take that....lol

This thread is just too funny

why build it in the US? the reason why i got my xB is because its 100% made in Japan...

+1

as long as they keep the quality then it's all good. hopefully toyota won't make the same mistakes as the US car manufacturers did in the past years.

lemme guess, with subaru now part of toyota. i won't be surprised if the WRX impreza will have another face lift.

Keep building them in Japan...they have better assembling quality. US built Toyota cars tend to be more problematic than the Japanese built