Airbags seem to be the hottest thing right now but a lot of JDM/VIP top cars are installing Hydraulic setups in Japan with setups like the lowriders. I know a little about hydros and airbags, but not on the xB. Any constructive suggestions welcome...

i dont think your right about lowrired hydro's....allot of vip cars in japan run coilover or airbags their is a new system thatroberuta came out the is kinda like hydrolics that go on the top of coilovers. you can actually get a system from bold world with coilovers and the roberuta system, or if you have coilovers you can just buy the roberuta system

boldworld parfume system
http://www.boldworld.co.jp/series/parfumecup.jpg http://www.boldworld.co.jp/index1.html

roberuta cup kit
http://www.roberuta.com/roberutacup/img/price1.jpg
http://www.roberuta.com/roberutacup/index.html

for the xb/bb on both systems you can only get it for the fronts.
or you can just get a complete air ride system from companys like :boldworld, airrunner, and airdyne http://www.airdyne-jp.com/goods/goods01_01.html http://www.airrunner.co.jp/[/img]

Thats one of the best insightful posts on this topic Ive seen, thanks for your input man!

boldworld also makes airride systems too

i like that first kit it sounds like it would be a little more reliable than just airride cause you would have coilovers still if your air failed,

i like that first kit it sounds like it would be a little more reliable than just airride cause you would have coilovers still if your air failed,

Yes, thats a great safety option. But whats cool is you get the adjustability on the lowest point. Yeah airbags have the adjustability but you cant adjust the lowest drop. For example I am 13X8" rims, so even though I want air I might still hit the ground with a low body kit. I think its unique too.

ya i love it how much does something that run?

well the cup kit for the front (if you already have coilovers) is approx $1500-2000 and the bold worlds system is around 5000 and thats for coilovers all around and the roberuta cup's only up front.

its much more reliable than bags too because theres no bag to break. it will last alot longer too.

ouch 5000 that really hurts the wallet, pretty cool though

Isnt it true that in japan there are coilover + Hydros/Air combos as well as actuator technology?

Japan does have a good point, they save the coilover and compromise the amount of lift/drop. That's cool and different from any setup Ive seen on all xBs/bBs so far. Im not rich but I hope this thread doesnt get cluttered with posts hating these kits because they cost a lot. I appreciate the technology, I havent seen it here in the US, maybe there are cheaper US kits that could be produced. Im liking this thread a lot.

i wasnt hating the kit i admire the kit and wish the us made something like it, I think its a great idea actually

i wasnt hating the kit i admire the kit and wish the us made something like it, I think its a great idea actually

You werent hating the kit, you were hating the price, but peeps shouldnt hate it because of the price. Your alright man... I remember a while back someone use to be hating on airbags because they were much more expensive than their generic coilover kits. Peace.

well you have to pay to play...i have coilovers on my previa and i will get the roberuta cup kit for the front.

you can bag your car with a kit thats fairly priced and works just fine with a good ride quality. Not sure what ya looking for...

the roberuta kit is for the person that wants the performance and comfort (when you riding low) of coilovers.

you can bag your car with a kit thats fairly priced and works just fine with a good ride quality. Not sure what ya looking for...

Anyone can bag a vehicle, but some peeps are looking for some performance too. But I understand that some folks just want to see the car down slammed and just make it driveable. Others want the car to still perform and sacrifice for less range of going up and down. Some also say that the coilover combo kits are safer. Ive also seen some safe and effective hydraulics setups that ride well too. Im considering a coilover hydraulic combo with accumulators too, but there are some tradeoffs. It depends on what ppl want, and if they want more like retaining performance and feeling more safe then sometimes its going to cost more. Ive also seen some hydro-air combo kits.

well with this coilover combo you would be able to slam it and still drive it so it seems to be the best possiabl idea so far in adjustable sus.

i like that first kit it sounds like it would be a little more reliable than just airride cause you would have coilovers still if your air failed,

Yes, thats a great safety option. But whats cool is you get the adjustability on the lowest point. Yeah airbags have the adjustability but you cant adjust the lowest drop. For example I am 13X8" rims, so even though I want air I might still hit the ground with a low body kit. I think its unique too.
umm on a scion? that'd be just retarded. 13's dont fit on xb's unless theyre like -30 offset and ugly arse gold dayton types.

Just wanted to clarify a few things. I took a look at the websites posted above, and while I wasn't familiar with these companies systems before now, I am familiar with pneumatic suspension systems.

First, let me say that every one of those systems appeared to be a very nice, well thought out and executed system. And I am not going to say a word about price or anything else. If you are planning to import an "air system" all the way from Japan without the support of a domestic distributor, price obviously isn't a concern.

But I must say this. The systems being described in this thread are not truly suspensions at all. (This is not referring to all of the systems offered by all of the manufacturers. Just the "cup" systems to be used in conjunction with coil-overs.) A suspension, in terms of automotive chassis must consist of two things springs (coil, leaf, air, etc.) and dampers (shock absorbers). The cup systems do not contain a damper, and barely contain any sort of spring mechanism.

Now this isn't to say they are a poor design. They are a great design. Essentially a suspension system isn't required for these air systems. The entire suspension of the vehicle is accomplished by the coil-overs. The "cups" are simply there to provide lift. A very innovative design, and one I would hope to see domestic manufacturers following suite on.

This isn't to say this hasn't been done domestically before. People have done systems like this for several years on a custom level. Everything from combinations of air springs and steel springs, to air springs and hydraulics.

One thing any potential buyer should understand is that purchasing a "cup" type system is not going to provide any additional ride comfort. There will be a very slight amount of give in the cups, but not enough to be noticeable. At least not in this layman's opinion. The advantage though, is that the ride quality your coil-overs provide will be consistent throughout the cups travel.

If there is something I didn't address, that you have a question about, let me know. If you don't agree with my assessment, let me know.

i like that first kit it sounds like it would be a little more reliable than just airride cause you would have coilovers still if your air failed,

Yes, thats a great safety option. But whats cool is you get the adjustability on the lowest point. Yeah airbags have the adjustability but you cant adjust the lowest drop. For example I am 13X8" rims, so even though I want air I might still hit the ground with a low body kit. I think its unique too.
umm on a scion? that'd be just retarded. 13's dont fit on xb's unless theyre like -30 offset and ugly arse gold dayton types.

I have old school type 13X8 Rotas probably meant for older cars. They seem to match the retro look of the car and to me it looks cool. Something different vs the bigger is better style. I do know its unpopular but don't knock it till youve tried it. My acceleration is much better than stock, I can do tight turns, they are light, and they are inexpensive, and provide a different kind a look. Just starting up a trend in the small wheels again, but no they are not reverse offset wires which I think if the car is done tastefully could look good. This thread isnt about rims though .... Peace.

What exactly does the cup system do im not familiar with it

Just wanted to clarify a few things. I took a look at the websites posted above, and while I wasn't familiar with these companies systems before now, I am familiar with pneumatic suspension systems.

First, let me say that every one of those systems appeared to be a very nice, well thought out and executed system. And I am not going to say a word about price or anything else. If you are planning to import an "air system" all the way from Japan without the support of a domestic distributor, price obviously isn't a concern.

But I must say this. The systems being described in this thread are not truly suspensions at all. (This is not referring to all of the systems offered by all of the manufacturers. Just the "cup" systems to be used in conjunction with coil-overs.) A suspension, in terms of automotive chassis must consist of two things springs (coil, leaf, air, etc.) and dampers (shock absorbers). The cup systems do not contain a damper, and barely contain any sort of spring mechanism.

Now this isn't to say they are a poor design. They are a great design. Essentially a suspension system isn't required for these air systems. The entire suspension of the vehicle is accomplished by the coil-overs. The "cups" are simply there to provide lift. A very innovative design, and one I would hope to see domestic manufacturers following suite on.

This isn't to say this hasn't been done domestically before. People have done systems like this for several years on a custom level. Everything from combinations of air springs and steel springs, to air springs and hydraulics.

One thing any potential buyer should understand is that purchasing a "cup" type system is not going to provide any additional ride comfort. There will be a very slight amount of give in the cups, but not enough to be noticeable. At least not in this layman's opinion. The advantage though, is that the ride quality your coil-overs provide will be consistent throughout the cups travel.

If there is something I didn't address, that you have a question about, let me know. If you don't agree with my assessment, let me know.

I think the cups assume by default that some other suspension is already in place. In some cases it might be preferable to thos who have already invested in a coilover setup like TEIN, plus the added value that you can still fine tune the lowest point of the car by the coilovers adjustability. I agree with your statement, but I still think its relevant to this thread.

The "cup" style suspensions not only assume you have some other sort of suspension, they require it. Without some sort of suspension in conjunction with the cups they would be the equivalent of riding on solid steel. NO SUSPENSION. But since these things are designed as a part of a greater system, they perform exactly as they were designed to, and achieve exactly what the knowledgeable customer is looking for.

Now, for those that asked how these cup systems work...

Since they use the term "cup" I'll try and use that as the analogy.

OK... think about your local 7/11 (or QT for you Dredge). We have everything we need here to build our own working model of a cup system. Go over to the fountain drink section and grab yourself one of those 48 oz. cups. Then grab yourself one of the smaller 32 oz. cups and a 24 oz. cup. (The less sloped the sides of the cups are, the better.) While you are there, grab a straw. Now take your collection of 7/11 goodies over to where they have the stale donuts in the Plexiglas case. Grab whichever donuts you want, as long as the outside is about the same diameter as the inside of the 48 oz. cup you grabbed. Now you have all of your parts.

Walk over to the counter and lay all the "parts" out in front of you. When the guy behind the counter asks what you are doing just tell him "important research." Place the 48 oz. cup the way you normally would if you were going to pour something in it. Toward the base of the cup make a small hole just large enough to fit the straw through. Make sure you punch the hole high enough to be inside of the area that would hold liquid. You can use one of those nasty suckers they usually have up at the counter to make your hole. After you unwrap the straw you can insert one end into the hole. No need to insert it more than 1/2" or so.

Next grab your 24 oz. (smallest) cup. Turn it upside down on the counter, next to the 48 oz. cup. Then grab that stale donut. Carefully slide it over the top of the cup and slide it about 3/4 of the way to the base. Now pick the 24 oz. cup up and turn it over and set it next to the 48 oz. cup.

You should now have a 48 oz. cup with the hole at the base and a straw sticking out. And next to it a 24 oz. cup wearing a stale donut as a belt. And then the lonely 32 oz. sitting doing nothing by its self. Now lets assemble our pneumatic cup system!!!

Take your donut belt wearing 24 oz. cup and slide it into the straw punctured 48 oz. cup. It should slide down most of the way into the 48 oz. cup. Now turn your cup assembly over and set it on top of your 32 oz. cup. The rim of the 32 oz. cup should come into contact with the donut. The rim of the 24 oz/ cup should be inside of the 32 oz. cup rim and the 48 oz. rim outside.

You now have a (possibly) working representation of how a pneumatic "cup" system works. If your donut has created a good enough seal, and your cups' sides are close enough to vertical you should be able to blow through the straw, forcing the donut to slide down the 24 oz. cup. (A little bit of slightly used "Big League Chew" can help to secure the base of the 24 oz. cup to the 48 oz. cup. As the donut slides down it will lift the 48 oz. and 24 oz. cups up and away from the 32 oz. cup. When you suck air out of the straw it should lower the two cups back down.

If you do not have the lung capacity to lift and lower the cups, feel free to call your local whore. She ought to know plenty about sucking and blowing.

In this exercise in model building the assembly of cups, straw and donuts represent the pneumatic "cups" we have been talking about in this thread. The 32 oz. cup represents whatever other suspension you use in conjunction (coil-over).

Have fun building your working pneumatic cup suspension models kiddies. I expect to see pics of what you built!

:rofl: sounds like youve done this a few times haha thanks for the demonstration there handi marts now and there everywhere

:rofl: sounds like youve done this a few times haha thanks for the demonstration there handi marts now and there everywhere

Nope... never done it. And today was the first time I have seen that particular "suspension" design. The concept is simple enough though.

The 48 oz. and 24 oz. cups are machined billet aluminum. The hole in the 48 oz. cup is likely an NPT port. The straw is an air fitting and airline. The donut is another machined billet aluminum ring with inner and outer o-rings. Likely at least two per side. As I said before the 32 oz. cup is the traditional suspension. And you or the local whore suckin' and blowin' is your air management system.

It helps to simplify sometimes.

btw, did you know a lot of these new high class SUV's have air suspension and yet still perform and handle amazingly?

btw, did you know a lot of these new high class SUV's have air suspension and yet still perform and handle amazingly?

But most SUV's use a air/spring hybrid, some also have computer controled damper control that helps them out alot.

btw, did you know a lot of these new high class SUV's have air suspension and yet still perform and handle amazingly?

But most SUV's use a air/spring hybrid, some also have computer controled damper control that helps them out alot.

Plus SUVs are heavier so the sheer weight makes it ride better. Havent you noticed that lighter cars feel more bumpy? Im not so sure that SUVs handle amazingly...

Ive checked out lowriders with hydraulics having a smooth ride as well. The mechanicals of hydraulics are a lot less bulky except for the batteries, and the batteries are more for quantity. Two battery setups work well too, there are even kits for cars that bolt right in.

So is there a for sure answer on what is best? A friend of mine had his left front air bag break at the weld, on his xB.
That makes me not want to bag my xB. He had it welded, but it still looks bad.

btw, did you know a lot of these new high class SUV's have air suspension and yet still perform and handle amazingly?

But most SUV's use a air/spring hybrid, some also have computer controled damper control that helps them out alot.

Most that I have seen use a traditional coil spring up front and an air spring in the rear. They also use a custom air spring designed specifically for that vehicle. And almost all of them use a tapered sleeve, not a double convoluted design.

btw, did you know a lot of these new high class SUV's have air suspension and yet still perform and handle amazingly?

But most SUV's use a air/spring hybrid, some also have computer controled damper control that helps them out alot.

Plus SUVs are heavier so the sheer weight makes it ride better. Havent you noticed that lighter cars feel more bumpy? Im not so sure that SUVs handle amazingly...

Ive checked out lowriders with hydraulics having a smooth ride as well. The mechanicals of hydraulics are a lot less bulky except for the batteries, and the batteries are more for quantity. Two battery setups work well too, there are even kits for cars that bolt right in.



I think you have inadvertently hit on something that most people on this forum have no clue about. It is obvious that for the most part Scion owners aren't very savvy when it comes to air suspension.

In a properly designed air suspension the "air bags" must be matched to the vehicle. Something that SO many people miss. Even in the "minitruck" (don't even get me started on them) community. I don't know how many times I have seen double convoluted bags over the axle on a minitruck. And in some cases, being used in conjunction with "monoleaf" leaf springs to locate the axle.

The load rating of an air bag needs to be matched to the load presented by the vehicle. And to be quite honest, I think a "2500 lbs." bag is pushing it in the rear of an xB. Granted you have a more even weight distribution than you do in a truck, but there is so much less of that weight to distribute. Like it or not, Air Lift / Easystreet is on the right track using a sleeve bag in the rear to match the loading created by the xB. It is just sad that they can't seem to get it to work properly.

The matching of the bags to the vehicle is where you get your ride quality. Too "big" of a bag and you have to release almost all of the air to get a good ride. Raising the vehicle to a respectable level can cause it to ride like a buck board wagon. To "small" of a bag and you'll be lucky to even get the vehicle to lift off of the ground. A properly sized (and located) bag will have no problems lifting a vehicle to its design limit and providing a decent ride throughout the entire range of motion.

So is there a for sure answer on what is best? A friend of mine had his left front air bag break at the weld, on his xB.
That makes me not want to bag my xB. He had it welded, but it still looks bad.

Exactly which weld are you referring to? Which front bag set up was he using?

I will assume that the broken weld was actually on the strut an not the bag it's self. Most bags do not contain a weld. If it was a strut that had a weld fail, the manufacturer should have been contacted immediately. (Assuming it was someone like Air Runner or Airlift who have struts specifically for air bagged vehicles.) The manufacturer should have taken care of any problems.

If it was a stock strut, or some other strut that was adapted to be used with an air bag, then you buddy is pretty much on his own. And if it failed once, it will likely fail again. Unless he finds what cause the initial failure to occur and corrects the problem.

Juice It
http://home.comcast.net/~jay_berkshire/_D2X0004.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jay_berkshire/_D2X0040_3_1.jpg

wow.... that sure is different...
very colorful!!

WOW........

was that a clown car I saw?! And al that cutom work and it still has the stock dash?!
Now to business. If someone was going to be spending in upwards of three to five large on an air suspension, Why go thru the trouble of cups and donuts or whatever? I suggest looking into Tanabe Air Cobra or Tein. These companies have the homework and would much rather have one of those than my rattling Easystreet junk. But I ALSO have to come up with the cash. Besides, Tanabe is controlled by remote control. I got to try it out in Japan on a bB. Very cool setup. I say spend the money there and there will no custom fabbing and "making it work". Keep doing your homework.