Well, folks. Before I begin, let me just say that in no way am I trying to cause any problems for Weapon-R and that the build quality of the intake is impressive. I think as a whole the company is top notch. That goes for Ray Fong at Rev International Ltd.(Weapon-R). His very fast response times to my emails and his sheer honesty were very impressive and say alot about the integrity of the company! That being said here it goes...

I've had the Weapon-R Secret Weapon SRI intake on my TC for almost two months and have reset my ECU four times. Each time letting the car idle for 10 minutes and then babying it for the first 60 miles. Each time after the reset the engine is peppy and the intake works well. But after 350 miles or so it felt like the ECU was detuning the engine. There was a noticable loss in torque at low RPM's(1500-2800). Loss enough that taking off in second gear(which is very easy with the TC) required bringing up the RPM's into the 3000 RPM range.

A couple days ago I emailed Ray Fong regarding the problem and after sending him some digital photos of my intake and him verifying that I indeed had the latest version of the intake he informed me that he did not know of the problem I was experiencing and he would look into it. He followed up within a day with another email tellin me that they had a TC at their facility and WERE able to reproduce my problem on a dyno at their facility. That there WAS a torque and HP loss at lower RPM's. I replied asking if he had any numbers for lost torque and HP. His reply surprised me. A 10-20 FT LB MAX TORQUE LOSS AND 5 HP MAX LOSS at lower RPM's!!!!! :doh:

Now I don't know about you folks, but I use my TC as a daily driver, and as such there is alot of stop and go driving which low end torque is an important factor. For a four cylinder to lose 10-20 ft. lbs. of torque is a problem. Unfortunately I have taken off the Secret Weapon intake and have(for now) put the stock intake back on with a noticable return of low end torque.

Once again let me say that dealing with Ray was a top notch experience and Weapon-R is good company, but there are some issues that need to be addressed with this intake.

hmm ive didnt notice a loss...i have the intake and ram air kit.....i never got a cel either though

I'm not having any problems . did he say how they were able to simulate the problem that you are having?

10-20 ft-lb loss!!! That's Honda territtory! :nails:

I think this guy got a lemon of an intake. I've had absolutely no problems with my Weapon-R. Fits like a glove and performs like a champ

So how were they able to replicate your problem? Did you find out?

This is caused by the factory ECU. An intake like weapon R has a larger MAF housing, causing more air into the engine at idle and cruising. This throws the readings off and messes with the ECU. This is just part of the trade off and why many people are against intakes. I'm sure the Injen intake does the same thing.

No lemon intake here. I still have the emails in my PC at home. Ray basically said that the ECU can't compensate for the large amount of air coming in at lower RPM's. This causes the power loss. At roughly 4000 RPM's when the VVVT-i kicks in and the ECU makes more aggressive fuel mapping the intake makes it's HP. Ask for their dyno chart. I'll post the one forwarded to me by Ray himself later when I get home from work.

I think this guy got a lemon of an intake. I've had absolutely no problems with my Weapon-R. Fits like a glove and performs like a champ


soooo. why is your intake for sale?

:cough:...supercharger...:cough: :lalala:

I think this guy got a lemon of an intake. I've had absolutely no problems with my Weapon-R. Fits like a glove and performs like a champ


soooo. why is your intake for sale?

JMiller hit the nail right on the head. I have the TRD supercharger and it replaces the airbox. I LOVED my Weapon-R. Still do, but now I have another woman in my life and man, can she BLOW! :P

This is caused by the factory ECU. An intake like weapon R has a larger MAF housing, causing more air into the engine at idle and cruising. This throws the readings off and messes with the ECU. This is just part of the trade off and why many people are against intakes. I'm sure the Injen intake does the same thing.

THE INJEN nor the FUJITA have that problem, thats an unfortunate issue with WEAPON-R

i noticed more low end loss with the injen.

This is a typical result for most tube intakes. So you're not able to start off in 2nd anymore... is that a big problem for you?

The function of an intake is to go faster. Therefore, it needs to flow better than stock over 4k rpms... "racing" territory. This, it does quite well. If you want to regain that response and keep the high-end, try some exhaust mods.

This is a typical result for most tube intakes. So you're not able to start off in 2nd anymore... is that a big problem for you?

The function of an intake is to go faster. Therefore, it needs to flow better than stock over 4k rpms... "racing" territory. This, it does quite well. If you want to regain that response and keep the high-end, try some exhaust mods.

Taking off in 2nd gear was just used as an example senseiturtle. I was trying to explain in a way that other TC'ers can relate to. Folks know about the gearing of our cars and what they can do. The intake was creating a condition that was unfavorable to me. I like the torque our engines produce. So to lose 10 to 20 ft. lbs of it at lower RPM's is an issue to me. To you it may not be a big deal and that's fine. You have your expectations for an intake and I have mine. Others will have theirs. I jut find it unacceptable to loose that much power during daily driving, which for the most part involves the engine RPM's to be under 4000. Attached is the email from Ray Fong himself:

"The pipe you received is the correct, updated pipe. We actually dynoed a tC yesterday, and noticed the same torque loss. I did a little testing and research to find that below 4000rpm, the ECU runs the motor excessively lean when an intake is added. Once VVTi kicks in, the ECU’s changes to a more aggressive fueling map, hence the big jump in power around 4000rpm. This is an issue with not only our intake, but K&N and Injen as well, as shown on their dyno charts. There is simply too much air being ingested at the lower rpm’s than the ECU can handle. You don’t see as much of a problem with turbo tC’s, simply because most turbos don’t get spooled up till about 3500-4000 rpms. There’s not much we can do aside from tuning the ECU. I hope this answers your questions and eases your mind.


Ray Fong

Research and Development

Rev International Ltd."

So, in otherwords, They can't and are not going to do anything about it?

But why do some people claim gains? If they dynoed another one showing losses will the continue to sell the product claiming 10-15hp gains?
Hmmm.

They advertise 10-15HP gains? That's news to me.

As you can see from their own dyno graph on their site, there is a LOSS in the low-end of the spectrum for both HP & TQ until about 3500 RPM's. You can clearly see a 10TQ loss at 2,000rpm. They aren't cheating you, you got what they advertised.

http://www.monstermotorworks.com/images/tcintakedynobig.jpg

Torque is on the left and the green bar is after the intake.

Ahh... but I have a dyno that Ray sent me from October 24th that shows a max loss of 22 ft lbs. of torque at 2300 RPM's. It does show a max gain of 5.3 TQ at 4901 RPM's and max HP gain of 7.3 at 5510 RPM's, but the loss at 2300 is a killer!

If anyone has a web host I can forward the image for them to post.

i used to have the WR intake... at first it was cool... then as the ECU adjusted i lost low end just like you. now i have the injen, i love it :)

i used to have the WR intake... at first it was cool... then as the ECU adjusted i lost low end just like you. now i have the injen, i love it :)


That's what I'm trying to figure out at this point. Are other intakes affected in the same way. :nails:

i also have the injen intake, i prefer the weapon r over it.

it appears that the only solution would be to get something to control the A/F ratio.

Dam, i wish i didnt see this.... im putting my WRI in today.... :(

Well, I finally found a photo database to use. The link below goes to the dyno that Ray at Weapon-R/MMW sent me back on 10/24. It shows the power curve of the newly designed intake. Too much loss at 2300 RPM's for my liking...When the pictue loads click below it for full size, otherwise the blue line on the dyno chart is dark and difficult to see.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/267607875/497076249MBMPOf#

I just installed my intake yesterday, and just from driving it for 2 days, i can definitely say that there is a drop in torque in the 1700-2900 RPM range, especially in 2nd gear. But I have to agree with senseiturtle>>

The function of an intake is to go faster. Therefore, it needs to flow better than stock over 4k rpms... "racing" territory. This, it does quite well. If you want to regain that response and keep the high-end, try some exhaust mods.

i guess alot of us are figuring out what the dyno details are eh??? lol

if you check K&N and WR's dynoes, they both start to drop on low end torque. though WR leads with a better top end

i havent seen Injens dyno, well dynos from other people and not the company itself... tho the one that Injen officially dyoed should have just a tiny bit of lose on low end...

from the looks of all the dynos, weapon-r loses the most torque..... and i think Injen is the overall good performer... now you guys got me thinking i should get an Injen intake instead, and i bet that nice dyno shows the INJEN CAI (no SR)...

and hydrolocking would suck because of the CAI, i mean it only takes 2 teaspoons of water to take your engine out

And now someone must show the gains from a cold air box.

I imagine if a box doesn't replace the MAF mount portion of the pipe than it'll keep that torque while showing similar gains up top.

now you guys got me thinking i should get an Injen intake instead, and i bet that nice dyno shows the INJEN CAI (no SR)...

and hydrolocking would suck because of the CAI, i mean it only takes 2 teaspoons of water to take your engine out



Unless you are driving through 2-5 feet of water, I doubt you will ever see hydrolock on a TC with the Injen CAI. The position of the filter is pretty high from the ground. Not to mention all the engine covers located underneath the front bumper.

i havent seen Injens dyno, well dynos from other people and not the company itself... tho the one that Injen officially dyoed should have just a tiny bit of lose on low end...

from the looks of all the dynos, weapon-r loses the most torque..... and i think Injen is the overall good performer... now you guys got me thinking i should get an Injen intake instead, and i bet that nice dyno shows the INJEN CAI (no SR)...


my butt dyno says that the injen has very little low end loss as a sram. it does not pull as hard as weaponr at higher rpms but it's still kind of nice to have that low end response.
i would imagine that when someone develops a decent a/f controller that the weaponr will be pretty awesome.

well...
i have the weapon r with the cold air box
and the dc sports exhaust.
i havnt lost much low end,...
it sounds great too.

WOW! and I was going to get the weapon-r... forget thaT!

honestly, I believe that this is just an issue with all after market intakes, I dont think there is any other intake out there that will solve the problem. I have the WR Short Intake on my car right now, and I did notice the difference you speak of. I could actually hear the difference now then I had heard before. However I love the look and i do notice a loss in the low rpm's but, I can definitely feel the gain in the higher rpm......so in reality, you win some, and you lose some.

I had the WR for a while and it wasn't very noticeable. You have to realize though it adds the tq and hp at the high end like most intakes. Most people buy it to race or have that "race feel" and when you race you take off at least 2500rpms and will never enter the lower end were you'd feel it. If you want your granny top end then keep the stock.

Everyone has been experiencing the same problem. I stumbled into the same issue before I even knew about it. I now have a NST SC pulley and a WR SC intake sitting in boxes. I know my ulitmate plan which is worthy and I suggest it you everyone one of you guys. Just get some type of piggyback or any software that can adjust parameters set on the ECU and dyno it. You will get the A/F ratio you want while being able to stab at other adjustments. Trust me, I know it is more money yet you will be so happy after you do all of this. You will be running closer to power ranges that the SC should have come factory with. I am very excited and I will keep you guys posted if you interested.