Hard to Heel and toe with tC [Archive]

miraclecreator

11-11-2005, 01:36 AM

i actually have the OBX pedals and I wear my sparco sport shoes regularly, for some reason I just can't do it due to the space problem and it seems like the gas pedal isnt long enough for me to press on. Then i try a different method instead of rotating my heel to the gas pedal while pressing the brake with my toe: I used my left edge of my foot to press on the brake while sliding my right edge of my foot to press the gas, then i realized i can't slide enough to press the gas, instead, i slided off the brake when i finally pressed the gas. :( so frustrating..

Streeter

11-11-2005, 02:32 AM

I have size 15 feet. It's super easy. 8)

SquallLHeart

11-11-2005, 02:37 AM

the ball below my big right toe goes to brake, and right side of foot slides to gas.... if you're having space issues, a good set of pedals can make it easier.

lukkytoodye

11-11-2005, 03:17 AM

miraclecreator

11-11-2005, 03:51 AM

In my opinion, heel and toe is a fast racing type downshifting technique that is commonly used by race drivers but it's also very beneficial to street drivers as well.

shuttlegoosecock

11-11-2005, 04:01 AM

it saves the tranny a bit by rev matching so the clutch doesn't have to jerk as much and things like that. I got a set of carbon fiber pedals at pep boys, and my brake pedal and gas are real close together, it doesn't really matter where the clutch is so its cool. Just buy a pair of formula d shoes and you can heel toe like ken gushi... or do what i did and get farrari shoes in italy. They add about 10whp too. just in case you were wondering.

satoman44

11-11-2005, 04:37 AM

do u actually use your toe on the brake? if u do, i think there would be a space problem. i use the ball of my foot which i thought everyone did (maybe u do), but maybe its a lot easier for me because i have small feet. using the ball of your foot is the only thing i can think of and it seems easier to me than actually using your toe.

heyitznosaj

11-11-2005, 05:33 AM

I hate the feeling of rubbing your hell off the padding when trying to heel toe. Im new to manual so im still learning but another thing that agravates me is that you can't feel anything through the pedal. Its hard to determine how much gas you are actually giving it so its always to little or too much.

boostedscion

11-11-2005, 06:09 AM

practice x 10!

miraclecreator

11-11-2005, 06:36 AM

If someone can provide me some pics it would be greatly appreciated!!

Celt

11-11-2005, 06:54 AM

I dont have any space problems with obx pedals and size 10s.BELIEVE ME you do NOT need sparco shoes or any such nonsense. there is no hard and fast right way to do this.Practice (in a straight line)and mix it up a little until you do get the feel for it and if you cant do it one way then dont do it that way!!!

I personally cannot use my heel to control the the throttle.I brake with the left side of my foot and tip the right side onto the gas, blip the throttle change gear and grin but I mainly use it in cornering to minimize the upset to the driving line.

IF anything is true about driving stick it is PRACTICE.
15 years of it and still learning and improving.

biGhuK

11-11-2005, 08:23 AM

I drive every day with heel-toe because when you hit he track it becomes second nature. Really and truthfully heel-toe has alota benefits and it's an essential technique that you basically must learn if you ever plan on driving a real performance car with high horse power. Heel-toe for one thing gives you an edge on a track because it gives you instant torque and hp in your peak power band. Your heel-toe technique should keep the car smooth and within it's peak power band so that if that power is needed it's there instantly for your exit from a corner or grabbing an inside line on another opponent. When you drive a real high horsepower car with a stage 3 or higher clutch trust me if you can't heel-toe you'll wish you could or you'll be jerking your ____ around like it's a bull. The high horsepower requires the need for a higher quality and higher pressure clutch which of course if you've ever driven one is either on or off there is no clutch slipping to smooth into the gear. Basically it's preparation for the future if you ever plan on driving a boosted car and it's essential to drive a track properly.

This weekend i'll go ahead and do a tutorial on performance driving with some pictures and possibly a video if i can figure out a way to mount my busted ___ camera near my feet.

One thing you must learn is to forget about that tach, you don't have time for your eyes to transmit to your brain and then your brain process the reading and you drop the clutch on the gear. Use your ears and yoru ears only, roll down the windows and the sun roof and listen to the engine, if you can't comprehend your engine then you can't heel-toe. You must be able to guesstimate where to drop a gear audibly or you'll end up jerking it all around. This comes with practice and experience and there is really no other way to learn it than to drop a gear or two and take into account what happend and what to chang next time.

kungpaosamuraiii

11-11-2005, 08:38 AM

The best shoes for heel-toe: RAINBOW SANDALS.

Plus they're oh-so comfy and the feel of leather on feet is just so nice and.. what? Not from Cali? Bummer.. Well, try importing some Rainbows; it'll be the smartest decision of your life.

And think about it, Rainbows are trendy upscale sandals right? If you don't have a BMW 3 series, the next best thing to match the Rainbows and the iPod is a tC!

Anyways, I've found that heel-toe doesn't get very much easier between shoes and sandals and pedals. The biggest help is the pedal size but on the tC as well as my Saturn (my first stick that I learned on) the space between the brake and the gas isn't too big for my size 9.5 feet.

if you're having problems with space, the easiest solution (from what my size 13 friend says) is to cover the entire brake pedal with your foot and depress all three pedals at once. Unless you have wide feet, heel-toe is easiest if done with the heel and the toe. People with wider feet or people with really close sports pedals (real sports pedals, not the OBX ones offered from the dealer. Real sports pedals would be pedals that extend the width of the pedal) don't need to use heel and toe but instead can use both sides of the right foot - that is, the big toe on the brake and the pinky toe on the gas.

I haven't tried using this method because I feel that with my heel I can better modulate the amont of gas. A lot of people (like seriously everyone else) feel that the heel is not sensitive enough but I think it is.

dp-_-

11-11-2005, 08:48 AM

biGhuK

11-11-2005, 08:50 AM

harrisch

11-11-2005, 04:33 PM

http://www.shoes.com/productimages/shoes_ia27332.jpg

i have these in red white and blue...its like wearing socks, u can feel EVERYTHING that comes through the pedals, and sooooo comfortable...they get the job done

schwettynuts

11-11-2005, 05:13 PM

OBX pedals wont help you with heel and toe shifting since the size of the gas pedal and the brake isnt that big. The thinner the sole, the better it is for driving. You really do not need to rotate your right foot. Just put your foot half onto the brake and half on to the gas.

You dont always want to use heel toe when you down shift. Only use it when you will significantly reduce your speed (meaning, the need to hit the brake). If you are just going to downshift then just rev the engine a little when you down shift. Personally I think heel toe shifting is not very safe for normal driving. When you are on the track you know there wont be a pedestrian or a car that will stop for no reason or a dog running around . all the cars are gong the same direction. What if you do hell to shifting then suddenly you really have to stop. Your foot will get caught on both brake and gas and if you slip you might hit only the gas pedal. I recommend people to learn the technique but please dont use it all the time. IT IS DANGEROUS! You dont want to be stepping on the gas when you want to stop right away do you? Keep it only on the track.

I only find it useful for everyday driving when I am exiting the highway and about to turn. Now how do I make sure I am not doing a complete stop before I turn? I hope people understand what I am saying. Here are my CF momo pedals.

http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/100_0951.JPG (http://www.supload.com/free/100_0951.JPG/view/)

terra_tC

11-11-2005, 05:42 PM

Ive been practicing for some time now and yeah, i agree on not doing it in traffic. I find that my foot is barely on the brake (big toe basically) and the right side of my foot is on the gas. it can slip either way i gues...just dont want it to happen in traffic.

mikochu

11-11-2005, 05:51 PM

I have Celica GTS/IS300 pedals...

http://www.scionlife.com/gallery/personal/903_4.jpg
The tab on the gas pedal helps :D

terra_tC

11-11-2005, 06:03 PM

nice i bet that does some. might have to look for those

biGhuK

11-11-2005, 06:09 PM

He's absolutely right about not doing in traffic at first, you'll have alota anticipation at first about the entire process you'll be thinking really hard about dropping the gear correctly so you don't snap the clutch on the flywheel. You need to master this on a straight road with little to no traffic on it at first and then move on to shallow curves and once you're proficient you can move onto being comfortable with it in traffic and taking 90' turns.

SquallLHeart

11-11-2005, 06:16 PM

I got a free set of Razo CF pedals.

Razo says RP104's are the best model for the tC and I got RP105's. The 105's are much bigger. Most people that drive my car get irritated b/c they're so big, but.....

I can heel toe with each side of my right foot...hah!

"Are you heel-toeing?" "I like to call it lefting-righting" lol

Here's a pic of the pedals.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/nick-_-/Pedals.jpg

hey.. i got those pedals too.. the GT-spec ones.. but i got the recommended RP104's.. lucky butt, how'd you get them for free? i think i got them for $55 after tax... and also... you switched your clutch and brake pedals around (notice the brake pedal has that little thingy on the bottom right corner... to match the gas pedal's bottom left corner)... i also "heel-toe" with each side of my right foot.... :P

since the tC has that drive-by-wire system, it's hard to really control the gas, so i just blip it and then listen to the engine for when to drop the clutch.

kungpaosamuraiii

11-11-2005, 08:09 PM

The best shoes for heel-toe: RAINBOW SANDALS.

Not sure if you were joking or not but truthfully that's about the worst suggestion ever to someone that hasn't even attempted heel-toe correctly. There are too many situations where you can hang the sandle or your foot on the pedal while in the process.

If you're new at this i'd suggest getting some shoes that has a very small to non existant leather to sole ridge, not neccesarily racing shoes but something that fits snugly and has a very smooth transition all the way to the bottom of the sole no bull____ like a big plastic nike swish coming off the side of a channel or a ridge that can catch the pedal if you misplace your foot.

Oh and as for the rainbows, I have a pair i've had for 3 years that I wear every day I don't go to work and I live in florida. Yes you can heel-toe just fine in them but it's a little more of a concious mind to make sure you don't cram th epedal between your foot and the sandle.

Hahahahaha, Im so sorry! It was a joke. It's definitely harder in sandals, for sure. But I manage to not snag the pedals wearing sandals. I used to but.. I guess I figured how to not snag the sandals. But my point still remains, it doesn't get substantially easier with shoes or sandals or racing shoes or anything else really. The pedals, I've found, help the most but even then it's really what is the most comfortable that is the setup that helps the most. To me, my kungfu shoes are the easiest to use followed by my chucks and then by Addidas. I haven't used racing shoes yet though.. they don't match anything I have. I've driven some cars with sports pedals, even the sports pedals that extend the sides - In my experience, which may very well differ from anyone elses, they don't make very much difference.

My Cali statement is a little bit of .. regional prejudice against Californians. We're so full of ourselves, I swear.

Oh man, I hope no one went off to try and learn how to heel-toe in Rainbows! Again, I have to apologize because I assumed that people would look at my reasoning that they're good for heel-toe and realize it has nothing to do with anything.

dp-_-

11-12-2005, 01:53 AM

heyitznosaj

11-12-2005, 06:06 AM

woot! this thread rocks. I finally mastered heeltoeing! well not really but im getting there =P I was doing like 45 in 3rd when I was coming up to a yellow light so I thought id try heeltoeing to stop a little quicker. I did what someone posted in this thread and just listened to the engine and didnt look at the tach. It was absolutely perfect =D. The trick is to just blip the throttle. Don't bother trying to regulate how much gas you are giving it and just blip it a little.

miraclecreator

11-12-2005, 08:42 AM

right now i'm trying to get comfortable with double clutching since it seems easier to me, moving to heel n toeing soon tho.

dp-_-

11-12-2005, 10:31 AM

Double clutching is useless in modern day cars. The only time it's useful in our car is when you put it in reverse and it seems to not want to go in.

miraclecreator

11-12-2005, 04:30 PM

i know, but i feel that i should get comfortable with that before i tackle heel n toe

dp-_-

11-12-2005, 07:22 PM

heel toe is essentially double clutching mnus hitting the clutch twice. All you should be practicing is rev matching. Heel toe will come after you've learned how to match revs.

miraclecreator

11-12-2005, 07:45 PM

SquallLHeart

11-12-2005, 10:36 PM

learn to listen to your car.. it takes practice... don't be afraid to do it. you're gonna have to learn sooner or later, right? it takes abit of trial and error, but you'll get there.

cadre

11-13-2005, 06:10 AM

I've been practicing heel toe shifting for a few months now. Personally, I have the obx pedals and I'm a girl so I also have small feet. My problem is that I either can't blip the throttle right or my foot slips off the brake, depending on which way I try it. I have yet to make a smooth attempt but I think I'm getting better. Practice is key. ;)

dp-_-

11-13-2005, 04:32 PM

Yup, that's what i'm trying to get comfortable with, match reving, but I just feel so nervous and usually messed up when i'm doin heel n toe (also called single clutching) Anywayz, matching revving such is a pain in the butt, I just have quite a bit of trouble matching the rev b/c it varies so much and I dont know if i can do it w/o looking at the tach.

When rev matching, think of where the tach would be on the lower gear down. i.e. when going 30 mph in 2nd, you might be at 3000rpms. So when you're rev-matching from third gear, you might be going 2500rpms or something. You blip the throttle and you should get something like 3500 rpms from the blip. As the tach is coming down to 3000, you should be letting the clutch out at about the same time.

Also, I would recommend downshift to 4th or 3rd only. Our 1st & 2nd gears are so useless it makes it incredibly hard to rev match and downshift. Especially when you're trying to power out of a turn b/c your revs are usually higher than hell already.

I learned best when I forgot about downshifting into 1st and 2nd. I now only downshift to third....

Riki_Tiki

11-13-2005, 06:03 PM

if any of you have wrestled in high school or whatever then youd know what im about to talk about but anyways i like to use my wrestling shoes when i drive sometimes... they look like race shoes, they fit like a sock, and the sole is a 3mm flexible peice of rubber
http://www.wrestlingone.com/images/products/detail/AD-M957.d.jpg
http://www.wrestlingone.com/images/products/detail/AS-MJ500.d.jpg

blastedat9

11-13-2005, 06:48 PM

cadre

11-13-2005, 08:31 PM

try driving barefoot. i learned to heel-toe over the summer, i always wear flip flops and would take them off while driving to avoid getting them caught on the pedal. with no shoes on it came pretty naturally to me. now i can do it in sneakers too.

Haha, I can't drive barefoot to save my life. But I can drive in four inch heels, still can't heel-toe though.

heyitznosaj

11-17-2005, 04:52 AM

try driving barefoot. i learned to heel-toe over the summer, i always wear flip flops and would take them off while driving to avoid getting them caught on the pedal. with no shoes on it came pretty naturally to me. now i can do it in sneakers too.

Haha, I can't drive barefoot to save my life. But I can drive in four inch heels, still can't heel-toe though.
thats is so hot :love:

cadre

11-17-2005, 05:12 AM

thats is so hot :love:

:P

tCb00b

11-17-2005, 05:48 AM

dp-_-

11-17-2005, 09:05 AM

b00b is right :P

miraclecreator

01-10-2006, 12:41 AM

Heel-Toe is easy when you got three legs. HAHA. Its a lot easier on two wheels but I think its called Hand-footing, I could be wrong. Sorry, I'll think of something more constructive and then add it to this post. :P

Lol, it wouldn't be called heel n' toe if you have three legs. So, nobody has no pics yet?? I tried it so many times and i just can't get it, a vid would be sooo nice..

heyitznosaj

01-12-2006, 04:12 AM

if i can find away to mount my camera to film the pedals i can do a video for you. Going to need lots of tape for this...

the_butcher

01-12-2006, 05:41 AM

video tape it ... stop talking and do it... :doh:

lol jk take your tizzime.. son! :rofl:

kungpaosamuraiii

01-12-2006, 06:28 AM

You can try watching Initial D. I had trouble heel-toeing with the two sides of my foot. When I saw the anime and actually tried using my heel to hit the gas, it worked!

Basically (for the newbie) try depressing all three pedals at once , down shift, and hit the gas. All three pedals, shift, gas.

AtC2nv

01-12-2006, 07:13 AM

please please excuse the newb question, i know i know i cant believe it either, but what does using heel toe technique do? Im new to driving, but plan on going to the tracks after a while. Sorry for jacking your thred im not meaning too, just curious. Oh and please if you feel like making an arse outa urself and cuting me down go for it itll catch up to ya, thanks for the help.

iam not too sure if i can completly answer you question...but i from what i know abou heel and toe is that is basically a downshift but with a lil more drama....its used for going around twisty curves and corners ...you hit the break, down shift and right when yours about to exit the corner or curve, you hit the gas....the benefit is that you slow the car around the curve or corner while you are down shifting and you will be in the right gear to accelerate when you are out of the corner/curve....basically when tking on a corner/curve heel and toe helps you to go in like a lamb and come out like a lion out of the corner.....i hope it made sense...if not then your best bet is to go on ebay and order yourself a copy of the Drift Bible.....there should be real good explanitions of it in tha video....n oh yeah bet some better pedles that helps alot...mainly get a longer gas pedel so you dont have to twist your foot too much....have fun heel and toeing.

heyitznosaj

01-14-2006, 04:54 AM

video tape it ... stop talking and do it... :doh:

lol jk take your tizzime.. son! :rofl:

Sorry guys, I couldn't get it to work. I tried a couple different ways but none of whcih worked. I taped LEDs to the footwells so you could see the pedals but the tape just wasn't strong enough to hold the camera in place.

miraclecreator

01-14-2006, 05:02 PM

lol? have someone hold it for u then~

suhhh

01-14-2006, 05:31 PM

i drive barefoot most of the time. i just slip my shoes under/in front of the seat (depending on what i'm wearing).

try sitting...a little left on your seat and leaning a bit left so you'll stretch out your right leg to heel-toe. maybe your leg won't hit the side then.

heyitznosaj

01-17-2006, 02:22 AM

ill try making another vid with my mini tri-pod when it warms up a little or when I install my exhaust so you can hear the revs better. Too cold to be messing around in the car now.

Xonic

03-02-2006, 07:37 AM

try driving barefoot. i learned to heel-toe over the summer, i always wear flip flops and would take them off while driving to avoid getting them caught on the pedal. with no shoes on it came pretty naturally to me. now i can do it in sneakers too.

i dont really use my heel, i put the ball of my right foot on the brake and then twist so that the lower right edge is on the gas. its more the side of the foot than the heel.

Yeah, I learned heel and toe barefooted on my first manual car, a pontiac lemons hatch back... what a pos car but I learned to how to drive manual, rev match and heel toe, and some basic car fixing skills since it broke down every week :rofl:

anyway, I had a 89 honda prelude before this tC. I've had a lot of fun heel toeing in the prelude. I feel the pedal and seat setup in prelude is much better than tC's for "occational performance" driving. In my tC, I feel the brake pedal is closer to the clutch than to the gas :tap: . and then the level difference between the brake and gas pedal is too big. if I want to heel toe with good rev match I either have to work really hard to twist my ankle to barely able to touch the gas, or only when I am braking pretty hard.

also, tC's seating position is too high, making it not as comfortable for me to control the pedals. (not to mention the lack of head room with the high seat)

article with pics on heel toe:
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/howto/articles/45792/article.html

and if you rent a race or car test video, there should be plenty of video on foot pedal action. at least the japanese videos do.