hey everyone.

over the last few days, i've been recieving a ton of private messages asking about air suspension; kind of odd. so i thought it would just start up a question and answer thread, so everyone can learn from it.

anyone who has put air on their scion or any other car is welcome to give their opinions and advice on air suspension setups. there really is no one perfect way to set up air on any car, and i've already seen several different approaches that all have worked well. the scions are so light that it's really easy to get a reliable setup going. a lot of people trash talk air setups, but then again, they use the cheapest parts they can get their hands on. you get what you pay for.

so yeah... any questions or comments, post them here.

how about doing a write up?

Can you put a silencer to make the noise when the compressor is recharging quieter? What is the chemical composition of this so called "air" you use?

Can you put a silencer to make the noise when the compressor is recharging quieter? What is the chemical composition of this so called "air" you use?

um, there are some more expensive compressors that are quieter. also, if you mount the compressor inside the car, it will be way loud. you could soundproof it in a box, but then it might overheat. some of the larger compressors are really loud. the 2 i have aren't that bad, but as far as being totally silent, that's going to be tricky, but it can probably be done.

i don't know anything about chemicals, sorry.

how about doing a write up?

an installation write up? well i could do that but installing air is not really something you can learn from reading an online post. it is something best left to a professional or someone with experience. i am by far the best person to do a write up on installing air, too. but i can help with specific questions about the scions, since i have hands on experience. there's really nothing tricky or special about doing air on a scion, as far as air installs go.

i used cylinders for my car in the front, but that custom green car used strut bags, which are great, but i didn't feel i would get enough travel with them. i really like that setup, by the way. they did a great job. but it's not a simple setup at all. and i was trying to keep my install simple and easy to install or remove if i need to. i had to make compromises, but i have a daily driver, not a show car. and safety is more important than having the car touch the ground, which was my original goal. it's a little disappointing, but i had to keep safely in mind.

I've heard air setups are constantly fu%%ing up the camber-- is this true?-- is there anything I can do to prevent it?

I've heard air setups are constantly fu%%ing up the camber-- is this true?-- is there anything I can do to prevent it?

good question. well, on the scions, the only alignment adjustment is in the front. you can adjust camber and caster. camber is the one most people are concerned with since it affects performance and tire wear. a lot of cars have suspensions that are mounted on an A arm, and the camber of the wheel changes as you raise or lower the car. however, on macpherson strut type suspensions, the camber stays the same no matter how much up or down the wheel goes. it's just designed that way for better handling. this is also why you can put a little negative camber on the wheel for better cornering and it stays at the same negative amount in hard or soft turning. but that's a whole other issue.

with some cars, like hondas for example, when you lower them a lot, it really messes with the camber. if you raise the car, it goes positive, and when you lower it, it goes negative. they have camber kits to correct this, which basically just realigns the wheels to a more appropriate setting.

there is kind of a debate as to whether or not you need to realign a scion after removing the struts and putting lowering springs on the car. personally, i feel it is not necessary. i had my car aligned after i took my air suspension off and put lowering springs on my car and even though i had purposely made changes to the camber and caster, it was still within spec for the most part. i don't think simply removing the struts and putting them back on will change the camber much at all, unless you purposely mess with the settings.

when you mount the air cylinders in the front, you have to make sure the wheel is straight up and down. for my brackets, i slotted them a little, and adjusted them so they were as straight as i could make them. i had to readjust a couple times until it looked perfect, but i think i got it pretty good. and i didn't see any unusual tire wear after several thousand miles on low profile tires, which wear faster than stock tires usually. you might be able to get an alignment shop to make sure everything is ok after you install the cylinders, but they might tease you for screwing with your car like that. those guys usually don't appreciate custom work. they like things OEM.

but yeah. the best way to illustrate the whole camber thing is to raise your car up on a lift. notice how the wheels stay straight up and down even when they drop all the way down when the car is lifted up. so the camber isn't changing.

i might be wrong on some of this info but if it is, someone let me know and i will change what i said. i'm just going by my experiences. i am not a professional mechanic at all.

air is used,, no chemical, gas, or anything like that. just air.

Btw- thanks for doing this.

air is used,, no chemical, gas, or anything like that. just air.

yeah, compressed air. and air is a gas, technically.

you can used a highly compressed helium tank and hook that up to your air suspension as well. sometimes people do that for shows because it will last the whole day and a lot of indoor shows so not allow compressors to be running. plus it's really hard on your compressors to be on all the time so you can show off your air setup.

excuse this rookie question but...

Is their a way to do a coil over / air bag system? I know that some honda people have done this and was wondering if it would also fit on a scion?

Thomas

excuse this rookie question but...

Is their a way to do a coil over / air bag system? I know that some honda people have done this and was wondering if it would also fit on a scion?

Thomas

yeah, you could do it but i don't really see why you would. there is an expensive coilover/airbag setup you can get, but it's not meant to lower the car very much. mostly for performance. it lets you lower the car on the track and raise it for street driving. i have seen those kits go for around $3000-5000 plus installation. there might be cheaper ones out there though. remember that a good (in my opinion) traditional coilover setup is going to cost you around $2000-$3000. those $50 sleeve setups that honda guys put on their cars are just for looks and i would not push my car hard on a track with those ever. just my opinion.

i just can't see putting an air/coilover setup on a car that isn't fast enough to benefit from the improved handling. regular coilovers or lowering springs should be fine.

my air setup is pretty much aesthetic. it's not for performance at all. so that's probably the main downside to a traditional air setup.

yeah, you could do it but i don't really see why you would. there is an expensive coilover/airbag setup you can get, but it's not meant to lower the car very much. mostly for performance. it lets you lower the car on the track and raise it for street driving. i have seen those kits go for around $3000-5000 plus installation. there might be cheaper ones out there though. remember that a good (in my opinion) traditional coilover setup is going to cost you around $2000-$3000. those $50 sleeve setups that honda guys put on their cars are just for looks and i would not push my car hard on a track with those ever. just my opinion.

i just can't see putting an air/coilover setup on a car that isn't fast enough to benefit from the improved handling. regular coilovers or lowering springs should be fine.

my air setup is pretty much aesthetic. it's not for performance at all. so that's probably the main downside to a traditional air setup.

Not really looking for performance value in the sense of racing... would love a set up that will let me get from point A - point B and also handle well on long trips... the air system is more for a cruizing look if anything...

Thanx...

you're not going to believe this but...the ride isn't that bad.

it's almost the same as stock to be honest. and the handling is fine, you just have to take it easy on corners for safety reasons, and to make the air setup last longer. when you have air, you really need to respect it.

Eric,
Not trying to hoard your post or anything, but Helium & cylinders = not good. blow your seals quicker then anything.

Most people use either C02 or Nitrogen.
I had a Scuba tank on mine just for shows.. There is your chemical stuff..

To be safe on cylinders, I trust air. Bags: that's another issue.

Also, the noise of the compressor is usually because a compressor does alot of moving when on. that movement usually will vibrate anything it's attached to.
Buy good compressors (ViAirs are good). Use PolyUrethane bushings under the feet, line whatever metal your moutning the comps to with: layers of dynomat and undercarpet jute. That will quiet the noise big time.. The only noise left can be easily silenced with the turn of a radio knob.

Also Eric is correct with body roll in Air rides.
In order to get a nice ride, you'll need air travel, which in turn means you will have some body roll when cornering.
If you want a stiffer ride, mount your valves (also do indepentent) closer to the cylinders.. You'll not only get a faster response, but a little stiffer ride as well.


Air ride is not dangerous, or anything like that.
However it's not maintenance free. I'd suggest anyone looking to install air ride, to become as familar with how things work as possible, oir you'll be paying a shop to do the little stuff that you could have easily fixed at home.
Go to car shows, (truck shows), and ask the owners. 99% of them are nice and willing to share the vast knowledge, just like Eric.

Eric, I commend you for being one to air your scion.. I would have liked to have seen that setup.
:!:

oh yeah, i meant nitrogen. sorry, my bad. don't use helium unless you want to blow up balloons or make your voice sound funny.

that info you gave, phatfront, is really good. i don't know everything about air suspension but i'm learning and sharing info as i learn it.

there is one thing i did learn. don't ever use just 4 valves. use 8. 2 on each corner. if you use one valve for both sides, you will have a problem with the air transfering from one side to the other on cornering, and you will have a crazy problem with body roll. the good news with the scions and using bags in the rear is that you can put the valves super close to the tank and so the bag will barely move when you corner, but it will move enough to turn properly. plus, the rear isn't independant suspension so that helps stiffen things up a bit back there.

i might convert to cylinders in the rear, and put them where the shocks are now. right now i am still using my stock stocks to help dampen the ride a little, which is why the ride is pretty smooth.

the SMC cylinders i am using have built in accumulators so they are only stiff when in the full up or full down position. i don't know how other cylinders are, but i'm assuming any ones that aren't the cheapest you can buy are similar.

as far as leaking goes, i never have had a problem with leaks. one time i had a hose too close to the ground and it eventually scraped a hole in it. so that was dumb of me, but it was an easy fix and i learned from it.

it's good to keep an "emergency kit" with you if you have air. just some tubing, a couple fittings, maybe a spare valve, and basic tools. my car is set up so i can drive slowly if i lose pressure and it's all the way down, but it's way bumpy. drives like a stagecoach. if you do an extreme setup that won't drive if you lose air pressure, make sure you have the parts to fix any problem, or at least roadside assistance. that's about all i can think of from a cautionary standpoint.

and phatfront or anyone else with experience with air suspension: please post your comments or opinions here. everyone has different opinions but that's fine. in the world of custom work there is no one way to do things, which i think is cool. there are 50 other ways i could have set up my air, but i had to balance cost, reliability, and looks. so that is how i designed my setup.

Eric,
If it were me, I'd keep the bags in the rear (I'm assuming your are running 2500's back there).
Ther rear acts like an axle like a truck. using bags and seperate shocks you'll get the best ride.
That's just from the experience of having cylinders in the back of an import. I rode in a focus with bags in the back, and it rode 10 times better. But experimenting is the best way to learn IMO.
I think that converting to cylinders, you'll get more of a bumpy ride, only because of weight..
the cylinders will top out . The SMCs are nice, built like brislands. with the built in bump stops for a smoother ride.
speaking of which, are you running the stock shocks out back?

You are a head of the class in keeping an "emergancy kit" or parts with you. No telling how many times I cussed myself out for not having a union or something after rubbing a hole in the line.. well after doing so once, I converted to copper lines.
:)
Are you still running the air ride kit? Did you get the square looking cylinders?

yeah, i just put most of the air suspension back in last weekend. actually, the rear is all in, all the valves are in, and the compressors and tank are in. i just need to make a new bracket for the front cylinders and i will be done. before, i was running this metal plate with rubber bushings that bolted right to the cylinder and to my car, but it was hard on my car and not as safe, since the cylinder couldn't rotate at all. so i am going to redo it with the stock strut top. i am using a 4" x 6" stroke cylinder right now but i might go to a 4x4 if i need to get lower in front. i like having that extra travel though. i see a lot of hondas and stuff and their travel is weak.

my cylinders are round, but i know what you mean by the square ones. i used to work for an automation company and we used the big square ones a lot for heavy robot arms. the 4" cylinders are very strong and have no problem with the little scion. they've been used on mush heavier cars before with no problem, although i have heard of 3" cylinders breaking on a maxima, so i decided to use 4".

i'm going to keep the bags in the back i think. it works well. i heard that bags use about 3 times more air than cylinders, but it's not that big of a deal. i am using 2 of those little firestone (thomas) compressors to save space (and money), but if either of them goes out i am going to get a viair instead. i have one of those furnas pressure switches that cuts out around 150psi, and that's helped to save my compressors a little.

i want to take some pictures of where i mounted everything and how it all fits in so everyone can see. it's actually all really simple once you see it all installed. sometimes i'm scared that something will break on me, but as long as i inspect everything once in a while and make sure not to abuse my car in corners and stuff, it should be fine. one problem i always have is scraping my tank if i drop it down when i'm moving. there is a movie of my sparking on the freeway last year during a scion meet that another member took. it looks cool but i'm afraid that eventually it's going to put a hole in the tank which obviously would be bad. there is only so much i can raise it up though. i might be able to grind off the port on top and bend the legs so it sits up higher, but the best solution would be a longer, thinner tank. i have one of those 5 gallon ones with the 6 ports all over it. most of them are plugged up.

oh, i have a question. i heard you should keep the length of the tubing the same size on each side of the car, from the valve to the bag. i didn't pay attention last weekend when i hooked up the tubing and made it shorter on the right side, and now it goes up a little higher than the left side. my switch is set up to do both valves at once and last time it went up equally every time. is it because the tubing is shorter on that side? i was going to cut a longer piece and replace the short one to see if that helps, but i thought i'd ask first. thanks.

only if you have independent switches will it not matter. but it is best to keep equal length tubing between the valve and the bag.

I like the use of one switch for up/down up front and one in back, however you might want to throw in some independent mometary switches just for this case. that way you have control of the pressure at all 4 corners.
Also if you have uneven load in your car (too much weight on one side) it's a nice feature to be able to bump up that side so you don't look like your running down the highway uneven..

Man, All this talk really makes me want to throw air on my car now :(

I just picked up my xB today!! I checked out the rear suspension and saw that baggin it would be a pretty simple task (simple and air ride?? yea right) but I really need some pics Eric!! Just a little direction. I understand your orginal fron cyclinder set up with the plates on the bolt but how else would you do it? I am crazy excited to get this project underway. Thanks in advance.

Lance

I just picked up my xB today!! I checked out the rear suspension and saw that baggin it would be a pretty simple task (simple and air ride?? yea right) but I really need some pics Eric!! Just a little direction. I understand your orginal fron cyclinder set up with the plates on the bolt but how else would you do it? I am crazy excited to get this project underway. Thanks in advance.

Lance

hi lance. congrats on your scion purchase! yes, the back is pretty straightforward. the front can be done a few ways, and i've seen a few different setups. you can use a strut bag which is in the shape of a strut and bolts right in and has an airbag built in. you can also do what i did and take the stock strut top and bolt it to a plate that bolts on a cylinder. but then you need to make the bottom brackets that bolt on where the stock strut bolts. to do this, i used the nut from the bottom of the rod that came with the cylinder and welded 2 plates to it. then i drilled holes in it, threaded it onto the rod and mounted it.

hopefully someone will come out with an xB kit that all bolts in, because then anyone can install it. ok, not anyone, but it will be way easier. actually, this was my first air install. without the help of my friend nick, who has done over 100 air installs, i wouldn't have had a clue what to do. i learned a lot by doing it, although i dont feel that i'm good enough to do another car from scratch if i had to make all the brackets and stuff.

also, i wanted to let everyone know that i currently have 4x6 smc cylinders. that means they are about 4" in diameter and have a 6" stroke, which is a lot for our little cars. i love how high i can get, but it is my goal to get as low as possible, so i am going to have to sell these cylinders and get some 4x4s. if anyone is interested, i am selling both cylinders for $300 or best offer. so if you want them or know anyone who does, let me know. they have some small scratches on the outside, but work perfectly. they're fast and reliable. these are not like the cheap cylinders you get in those $999 air kits.

aiight I think when my cash flow starts up I am going to do this...but my only real worry is the air suspensions effect on my warranty. I mean I know that there is no way I could roll into a dealership with my box dunked and start compalining about blown shocks or torn up cv joints, but what if, say my engine fails internally at no fault of my own, are they going to be able to claim that my vehicle is altered and void of its warranty. Sorry but this is my first vehicle thats not a used car with a 3 month warranty you kno? Well If i went with a coilover system I would probally end up going with a turbo setup...man why does everything fun have consequences? Thanks in advance

i would like to see suspension pics :!: :!:

For those who are worried about losing their ride quality, I would suggest avoiding the cyliners and going w/ strut bags.

I have a 1998 s-10 on air, and I had cylinder in the back so I could do a 3 wheel, however the ride quality suffered, so went w/ a bag set up, now it rides like a cadillac.

As for the noise w/ the compressor, just mount it under the vehicle w/ the valves. From some of the pics I have seen, looks like it should fit.

cylinders are only used in the front of my car and the ride is good because they have built in accumulators. i haven't tried them in the rear, but the way i have it with cylinders in the front and bags in the back is a good ride. no one would complain about the ride knowing there is air on my car. even if you didn't know, you would just think i had lowering springs or something. it's not bad at all, suprisingly. it's hard to explain to people because no one believes me.

low n slow, cylinders ride bad in the back of a truck, becuase of the weight of the vehicle.
too light. the same holds true in the back of a car, the cylinders don't ride that well unles you add an accumulator, or buy the ones with interior bumpstops (or accumulators).
that said, Bags totally ride better then cylinders anyday.
however, IMO I hate strut bags, not enough lift, and they really don't ride that much better.
in a scion, I'd either cut out the strut towers and run bags all the way around, or cylinder the front, and leave bags in the back.


PS. how did the 3 wheel work out? there is a guy around here who can 3 wheel using bags on the back.

you know, i never tried to do 3 wheel. i know i can't do it in the rear because of the single rear axle design, but i guess i could get another valve and have one front wheel suck up. i just never really wanted to do it. maybe one day.

ok, i've been getting a lot of emails requesting pictures and more info on air stuff. now i took some pics, but the quality is not that great, and you will see how ghetto some of my brackets are. but that's ok. this was done for me and the labor was free so it might not be as nice as something that cost $3500 to have installed. but everything is safe and the components are good quality from what i've researched.

so i will tell the story with pictures. this is going to be a long post...
all these pics will have the same wheels and tires for reference.

first we have my car sitting on goldline lowering springs. about a 2" drop from stock.

http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/goldline-springs.jpg


it's a decent height, but notice i used really low profile tires because i intended to get the car low and i needed small wheels and small tires to get the body as close to the ground as possible. having the gap between fender and tire is what most people see first, but i also wanted to get the car physically low, not just make it look lowered. when i had my 19" wheels and air suspension, the car was still like 5" above the ground. an xB with 2" drop springs and 19" wheels is around 8" from the ground, or more. the xBs with 20" wheels are even higher. that's not my thing. i like to roll low. i would have prefered 18 or 19" wheels, but i didn't want to go to the extremes that that green xB did with cutting the strut tower and c-notching the axles. but i think that's awesome they did that.

when i had my air stuff off, i took some pictures. i will post those now. here is an overview of all my stuff.

http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/air-setup.jpg

in the back is the 5 gallon tank, to the left are 2 small compressors, then you can see the 8 valve assemblies. the black box is an air pressure switch to put air in the tank when it needs it. it shuts on and off automatically. behind that are the 2 bags and to the right are the cylinders.

here is a closeup of the cups used for the bags. these acutally face up and sit in the spot where the springs sit. every time you lower the car from a lift or something, you have to "set" the bags in the little bump, and they stay in there unless you jack up the car again. not that big of a deal, really. it was the easiest way to do it.

http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/bag-cups.jpg

please excuse the surface rust. it's just mild steel for the cups.

the cups were made by TIG welding a piece of steel tubing inside a larger piece of steel tubing, which was welded to a plate that has a hole in the middle. then that gets bolted to the bag and you're done. then on the bottom on the car you just cut out the little bump for the spring and weld in a piece of metal with holes in it, and the bag mounts to that. you put a fitting in the bottom and you're done with the bags.


to be continued...

ok, the next custom thing is the cylinder bracket. i'm sure there are 1000 ways to do this, but not a lot of people actually know how to do air on a macpherson setup. but more and more are learning all the time. it's actually not that hard. here is what we did:

http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/cylinder-bracket-2.jpg

the cylinder is a 4" diameter with a 6" stroke, made by SMC. it's made in japan and all the threading is metric, which is fine by me, but it's hard to get metric bolts sometimes. fortunately, these cylinders come with a big nut screwed onto the rod. so we used that to make the bracket, which looks like the stock strut. 2 plates were fabricated and welded to a piece of tubing which was around the same size as the nut. then that was welded to the nut and it all gets screwed on to the cylinder and tightened. this was designed to sit up as high as possible, and holes were drilled in so they bolt on just like stock. the clearance between the metal and the cylinder when it's all the way down is minimal, but it does not rub. these plates might look ghetto, but they actually worked out quite well. they also allow a small bit of play to make minor alignment changes, and overall i'm satisfied with how they turned out.

here is a picture of the bottom of the cylinder and the bracket in the car right now:

http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/cylinder-bracket.jpg

now the top is really simple but unfortunately i don't have pictures of the bracket i made. i will explain it though. basically, the cylinder has 4 holes on top. we took a 4" by 4" piece of metal, drilled 4 holes in it, and bolted it on to the cylinder. then we got a bolt and welded it to the middle of the plate. then, the stock strut top was removed from the strut assembly and mounted on the nut, just like it's mounted on the stock shock shaft. a washer and lock nut is placed on the bolt and the whole strut top is able to spin even when the nut is tight because there is a bearing in there. there is also a rubber cushion which not only makes the ride better, but takes a lot of stress off the cylinders, especially when turning, and allows the car to handle a little better.

i wanted my car lower the first time we did the air, and so we rigged up a bracket which got my car about 1" lower. it looked awesome, but my car creaked a lot and my strut tower kept breaking and i had to reweld it like 50 times, and now my engine bay looks like crap. especially since my car is white. so i would not recommend doing cylinders in the front unless you have a darn good plan on how to allow the cylinder to rotate freely. it's all about safety for me, although i wish i had it as low as before. that is why i'm planning on going to a 4x4 cylinder. if you are running 17" or larger tires, this won't matter because you won't be able to get this low without rubbing anyway, but for me, i need a smaller cylinder to reach my car's full lowering potential.

next up, part 3: assembling valves and installing the other parts...

ok, i'm back with part 3. valves, compressors, tank, etc.

but first an intermission...now i didn't mention this before but i should let some of the new guys here know that i didn't know one thing about air until i started on this project with a friend. we planned it out in advance, got all the parts, then did the install in his garage in a weekend. all the brackets were made from scratch and we had no one to copy since this was july 2003, and most people had no idea what a scion even was. and i am not 100% sure, but i like to think i had the first xB on air. not that it matters. but i just wanted to say that i don't think i'm all that or anything. there are 5000 way cooler scions than mine. my goal was to get low. and i did it. so i'm happy. my last car was a subaru wrx and the goal was to go fast. it was pretty fast, but the problem with performance is there is always someone faster than you. and i didn't have the money to keep up. at the same time, i was getting speeding tickets and there were too many close calls. i always liked low rider trucks and i loved the bB since i first saw it, so a trade in was inevitable when the scion was released june 6th, 2003.

ok, back to part 3. the valves. when assembled, they look like this:

http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/valves.jpg

i used SMC industrial quality valves. i have a degree in the automation/robotics field and i used to work for an automation company and we only used SMC valves, fittings, and other parts. it lasts a long time in an industrial setting and so i figured it would be great for my car as well. the valves can actually work with air or oil, so that kind of shows how tough they are. each side of the car has 2 valves. the air goes in, and one valve controls the air going from the tank to the cylinder or bag. the other valve is used to release the air. if you open both valves at once, the air will just flow out and you will waste air. i feel this is the best way to set it up, although you can use 2 valves for 2 sides, which is not as reliable and will result in poor handling. the black wire of each valve grounds to the body and the red wires go to the swtiches. the other side of the switches go to 12v, and that is what clicks the valves on and off. pretty simple, actually. basic automation. the valve assemblies were mounted with self tapping screws to the bottom of my car, up above the lowest point on the car, and have never come close to hitting anything. i've never had valves come loose or anything. once you screw them in, you're done.

i mounted my 5 gallon tank to the bottom of my car in the very rear. on the scion, there is a nice space for it. the only problem is that when the car is all the way down, there is almost no clearance between the tank and the ground and it can spark at night. that looks cool until it wears a hole in the tank and your car permanently drops down while driving. hasn't happened to me yet, but it's a concern. of course, you could cut a hole in the rear and mount the tank higher, but i have a speaker box back there and i kept my spare tire so i had to put it where it is. there are longer, skinnier tanks available, and i'm sure those would fit as well, but i haven't tried.

my compressors are small, but work well. they have braided lines coming from them and of course hook directly to the tank, so they need to be close to the tank. again, i don't have a picture of these installed, but i will try to take some later. basically, they mount way back, even behind the tank, and sit right up against the rear bumper and underspoiler piece. the pressure switch is set to turn on if the pressure goes below 150psi, and also screws into the tank on the opposite side as the compressors, facing the front of the car. it hooks up to the red wire on the compressors. also out of the pressure switch is a big power wire which is fused and goes right to the battery. this gives power for the compressors. so compressor power and valve power are from 2 seperate sources.

once all that is installed, it's time to connect the tubing. my tubing is 1/2" OD and is plenty big enough for my car. too big, i think. i need to add something to slow down the valves because it's hard to make fine adjustments. the car jumps up and down almost as fast as hydraulics. mainly because the car is so light, i think. anyway, make sure all tubing on left and right is the same length and connect it from the tank to the valves, and from valves to the cylinders/bags. make sure the tubing will not scrape on the ground, kink, get too close the exhaust pipe, or rub on the tire or anything that will cause it to wear down over time. it's common sense, but still something to think about when positioning the wires. you can use plastic brackets or cable ties to secure the tubing if you need to.

i'm sure i missed something but those are the basics. last, you can wire up the switch box to the valves. i have a custom box with only 3-3 position switches. but they control everything i need. i used a series of diodes to prevent backflow of power, which is the secret to using only 6 switches for F-B-S-S instead of 10 or so. i guess you can do it without the diodes, but i wouldn't risk it.

part 4 will be pictures of my car, lowered, raised, and in between so you can see the results of all that work.

ok, here is how the car looks with my current setup. i just took these pics. the lighting was poor but you get the point. i had to screw with the contrast too, because my wheels are so dark and i wanted them to be visible in the pics.

here is my car fully raised:
http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/raised-rear.jpg

http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/raised-side2.jpg

here is my car somewhere in the middle position, maybe a little higher than i would have for driving.
http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/middle-side.jpg

and here it is all the way down. it's sitting in a wierd driveway that slopes down in front and back, so it looks a little higher than it is. usually it's pretty darn close to the ground in the front and rear. the frame is actually sitting on the ground in the middle of the car. i tried to get under the car to take a pic, but it didn't turn out.
http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/lowered-side.jpg

http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/lowered-front.jpg

so yeah, i wish the front was lower, but overall it still looks pretty cool i think. the back is really low, which is cool. just about rubbing on the fuel filler hose. if my wheels or tires were any bigger, it would totally rub on the fuel hose, so i'm pretty fortunate, i just missed it.

now all i need is a red genie body kit and it will look really low!! :) i at least need to get a front lip because it looks a little high in my opinion.

any questions or comments about anything i said are welcome. i just wanted to have this post for people to learn about this subject that is interesting and often talked about, but rarely discussed in depth. i'm gladf phatfront is here because he knows a lot more than me and can answer the hard questions. i can answer most of the scion specific questions though since i've put air on my scion twice now.

rear lower bracket?? We need a pic of the rear lower bracket please!! I am having a little dilema right now and its between My warranty and my need for my first air ride equipped vehicle. MAN!!!! I wanna rock air ride but I think I am gonna hold off till about 40-50K miles I think but I am gonna start getting all my airride stuff together get real quality stuff and be all ready when I decide its go time. Aiight man I really appriciate the pics. Oh yea what kindo maintenace do you do regularly to keep your suspension in top running condition? Thanks you've been a great help.

rear lower bracket?? We need a pic of the rear lower bracket please!! I am having a little dilema right now and its between My warranty and my need for my first air ride equipped vehicle. MAN!!!! I wanna rock air ride but I think I am gonna hold off till about 40-50K miles I think but I am gonna start getting all my airride stuff together get real quality stuff and be all ready when I decide its go time. Aiight man I really appriciate the pics. Oh yea what kindo maintenace do you do regularly to keep your suspension in top running condition? Thanks you've been a great help.

ok listen up, if you are worried about your warranty: FORGET ABOUT AIR. now, keep in mind that they can't void an engine or tranny failure because you have air, but other things may be effected. not that anything is going to break on our cars, they're really solid.

maintenance: i just try to inspect all the tubing and make sure nothing is rubbing and that both compressors are still running and that everything is still tight. those are the main things. also, make sure the cylinders are in good shape. so far everything has been cool. i took my car on several trips to santa barbara and back without any issues before.

by the way, my car has over 30,000 miles on it and not a single warranty issue. i change the oil and that's about it. what a great car.

i'll try to take some pictures of the rear bracket tomorrow. it's really basic. you just cut out the bottom and weld on that plate. if you want to go back to stock, you just weld the stock hump piece back over the plate. simple.

i was just wondering if anyone would like to post links to companys that might have air suspension products that would give people different options for air suspension...

www.aimindustries.com

www.showtimehydraulics.com

www.deviouscustoms.com

www.teampneumatic.com

sorry all the links didnt work............ :x ....but you can type them in and they should work

i fixed the links for you.

i got all my stuff from a place called pacific air technology in mission viejo. actually, they bought a company called MIC and have a nice storefront and can get pretty much anything you need. they sell quality stuff and can also give advice. the website is www.masterimagecustoms.com.

also, i don't recommend going to AIM for parts because they sell crappy stuff in my opinion. i'm sorry if anyone is friends with people who work there are anything, but everyone i've talked to who bought parts from AIM has had problems with things breaking, leaking, and not working right. that's no good when you're dealing with your suspension. it needs to be as solid as possible.

thanks for fixing those links eric, here are some more places to get some air suspension parts online.......

www.diaxiscustoms.com

www.suicidedoors.com

www.airgasmkustomz.com

www.silverstarcustoms.com

www.airride.com

www.prohopperhydraulics.com



and as far as installation for air ive heard that www.ifcustom.com and www.deviouscutoms.com are reputable places to go...

and as far as aim, their stuff is kinda cheesy but if you want to go the cheap way they will get you there.

Eric,
the ride looks sick.
GReat job.


Also, I agree AIM sux.. (pretty much a know fact).

Also one of those links Ifcustoms... I F is a great company, since most of you guys are in Cali, I'd suggest cruising by there and talking to DAvid. He's one of the nicest guys around and is willing to share is knowledge of air. (although it might cost you a beer or 2).
Can't wait to see more scions on air..

Eric? Where are you getting your new cylinders? Also this may have been just a bad batch, but most of the SMC valves (10mm & 15mm) had a hard time passing water and would stick. a water seperator between the comps and tank usually fixed the problem. Have you experinced the same thing?
8)
Big Props!

actually, i've never had a problem with my cylinders sticking at all. they work perfectly every time, cold, hot, if i don't use them for a while, whatever. i'm very happy with the SMC stuff and i'm sorry if you got a bad batch before but i would recommend them to anyone based on my experience with them.

i'm going to make some adjustments to my air setup this weekend and i'll try to take more pics of the stuff installed in the car, as well as the top and bottom mounts for the cylinders and the bottom mount for the bags for those who are interested.

thanks for the compliments.

eric.

yeah i just wanna be as low as possible also, before i got into my scion i had a chevy silverado that was bagged but had stock rims and i was happy with it. i have always liked the low life be fore that i had a 1968 impala with hydros but got tired of the maitenence bagged is the only way to go. i would love to see some more pics of different options for the front suspension. thanks for all the info eric and everybody that put in their own 2 cents...

ok, it's 2am and i just got home. i managed to get my car a little bit lower. i parked it in the grass in front of my parents house where i did the work for some quick pictures. sorry they didn't turn out too well.

http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/low-dark-2-4-23-04.jpg

http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/low-dark-1-4-23-04.jpg

what a difference compared to this picture from the day i got my car, 6.6.03.

http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/stock.jpg

i like how low my car looks, but i would definitely recommend using 6" cylinders instead of 4". my car goes up 4" less than it used to, and it's barely 2" lower. so it's not really worth losing all that travel to get it a little lower. but it was what i wanted to do. it was fun cruising around with the front really high and the back slammed, and now i can't do that anymore. oh well. ok, time for bed.

alright I'm sold...this isnt gonna be my first mod but will definatley be done by the middle of summer...eric you xb looks damn good. Thanks for all the pics and info. Take it easy...Peace

here are some more pics i just took. i'm so full of myself, i can't stop posting pics of my awesome car!! just kidding. but i am happy with how it looks. right now.

http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/4-24-04-008.jpg

http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/4-24-04-005.jpg

http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/4-24-04-003.jpg

so what exactly did you do to get your car lower? how much did you pay for your new cylinders? you said you bought 6" or 4" ? is that the stroke length of the cylinder or diameter? it really looks tight, i would like to see the difference in the front raised....

rear suspension pics? sorry I know I am probally getting anoying but you kno....

awwww...the xb is taking a nap :P

those rota grids look pretty good...

i am using 4" diameter cylinders. i had 6" stroke but now i have 4" stroke. this means the actual cylinder is 2" smaller, so my car is now 2" lower. however, since i lost 2" of travel, when the cylinder is all the way extended, my car is 4" lower than it was before, which is bad to some people. but i'm more concerned with getting low than getting high.

i didn't get any good pictures of the rear mounts. i'll try to get some good ones when it is sunny and i have the back up. sorry it's taking so long.

i got the new cylinders for about $350 for both (with tax) from MIC. the 6" stroke ones are more expensive. of course this price doesn't include any fittings or brackets to bolt it to the car, just the cylinder. i saw some generic cylinders with macpherson brackets in a mini truckin magazine for around $600 a pair. i don't know if all macpherson struts have the same mounting holes, or if there are some that will work with our cars, but if so, that would definitely be the way to go. just screw those on the cylinder rod and the bottom is done.

Aim Industries has a bolt-on kit for the xB... 1295 for normal... 1495 for fast...

I'll take it ;)

Aim Industries has a bolt-on kit for the xB... 1295 for normal... 1495 for fast...
I'll take it ;)

cool. i like those bolt in strut bags. that makes doing the front WAY easier. i wonder how low they go with those. someone buy those so i can see. i think cylinders are a better ride though. and they're definitely faster for sure.

here is a link:
http://www.truckn-store.com/product.asp?returnURL=default.asp&ID=57829

i don't recommend AIM but who knows, maybe they have better stuff now then they used to.

eric.

eric


where did u get your set up from? your mini truck looks bad a** 8)

eric
where did u get your set up from? your mini truck looks bad a** 8)

i got all the parts from a place called pacific air technologies in mission veijo, ca. they bought master image customs, so now you can buy stuff directly from MIC. it's not really a "setup" though. i just bought a bunch of parts and put them all together and custom fabricated all the brackets. i think i've answered this question about 250 times since i did the air suspension. now i remember why i took it off the first time.

i wanted to cut the roof off and make the back into a bed so it really does look like a truck, but that would be a lot of work and i don't have the time or money. but i think it would look cool. you could weld the rear doors shut and it would just be a 2 door truck with a bed. someone photoshopped some pictures a while back and it looks great.

here is a picture of the airstrut. this is cool.
http://www.truckn-store.com/techDrawings/airstrut.pdf

alright started the project of baggin the box. cylinders up front with bags in the rear 1 5 gallon and 2 compressors. f/b/s/s, 9 switches. devious customs sux. i went to them to have them do it and i asked if the had done a scion yet. they were like yeah we've had a bunch of people ask about it but no1 was serious enough to do it. so i said im serious lets do it and they said theyd call me and they didnt so i called them. they said theyd call me again and they didnt. so i said devious sux! i guess they werent serious about doing it. anyways ill do it myself then. im on 18s and the back will tuck a bit of rim and the front will tuck half my 35 series tire. ill have sum pics up in like a week. peace~

NEWS: i was just at master image customs in mission viejo, ca and i asked them about some macpherson lower brackets for air cylinders. turns out they have some really nice machined aluminum ones. they are about $99 each, but totally worth the price. they're machined out of one piece of solid aluminum and will never break. they are threaded and screw right into your cylinder. then you drill 2 holes to match your hole pattern and bolt them to your car. makes it so simple. they even have some custom made top mounts so you can mount the cylinder to your strut tower without having to fabricate anything! really awesome. just a heads up for anyone who is interested. the phone number there is 714.970.9488.

you can tell them eric with the white scion told you about them and they might give you a good deal. or maybe they'll charge you more. i don't know. but they always seem to have what i need when i go in there, and they sell quality stuff. and they're really nice.

Eric M ,

Bill said you might be able to help me out im looking to buy a full air bag set up fpr my box and wonder if you can help a native so cal bro out. I understand what the cost of these kits are and will gladly give you more for the help.


Dj

just got an e-mail from www.teampneumatic.com they are going to have an airbag kit avail for the xb comming out soon. one of the installers has an xb and is in the process of bagging it, it will not be cylinders it will be an air bag strut system that will get as low as air cylinders (hopefully) with level adjustments and shock adjustments for the ride quality. if you have anyquestions check out theyre site and e-mail them the guy i talked to was joe and he seems like a pretty cool guy........thanks[/url]

heres a complete kit for the xB

http://www.airbagit-store.com/product.asp?returnURL=application_list.asp&ID=57829

ok, my bad thats the same one as the truckns store

so i went on cardomain.com and there was a white one in florida that was bagged.pretty sik.mine is bagged too.my pics on nueragraphix.com
i wanna sit lower.gotta figure it out.just got new rims the other day.dont have pics yet

saw the pics of your xb didnt look to low though, i also saw the white xb from florida i wonder whos it is? what sort of system are you running? bags,cylinders,strut bags, what? where did you get your setup from...just curious :lol: :lol:

question man can you tell me , how tall is the total hieght of your rim and tires trying to compair to my 18's and figure out if tis worth spending the money to ditch my air bags for cylinders .how wide are your rims total also . what is the total hieght of your vehicals front wheel wells and also your rear wheel wells , thanks man one day im going to have a mpg of my scion thrown sparks :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

question man can you tell me , how tall is the total hieght of your rim and tires trying to compair to my 18's and figure out if tis worth spending the money to ditch my air bags for cylinders .how wide are your rims total also . what is the total hieght of your vehicals front wheel wells and also your rear wheel wells , thanks man one day im going to have a mpg of my scion thrown sparks :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

man, that is a lot of questions. i don't really want to go take a bunch of measurements right now but basically my 16x7 wheels with low profile tires are a lot smaller than 18s with low profile tires. so the car sits low. the fact that i am just tucking rim with only 16s shows how low my car is. there are several other xBs on air but none of them are as low as mine. but being low was my main priority, not just going up and down.

not to be rude, but this does not look like an xB on air:

http://nueragraphix.com/images/scion.jpg

this is my xB when i had 19s. i didn't do any measurements. i just bought some wheels and put them on and then i did air suspension. these wheels are 19x8 and are a little too big to use with cylinders in the front.

here is my car with 19s and air suspension:

http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/newport-xB.jpg

it's low, but not crazy low. that is why i got 16s. plus the car is a lot faster with the smaller wheels. 19s really slow the scion down.

http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/xb-down.jpg

http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/xB-up.jpg

http://eric.myimprezawrx.com/photos/albums/userpics/back-xb.jpg

note: the above pics of my car were all taken august 2003. many things have changed since then.


there is one more thing i want to say to everyone. i hate to say this but i am taking off my air setup again and putting my goldline springs back on. there are a couple reasons for this. first, i drive too much. the ride isn't that bad, but it's not as good as springs with the new 4" cylinders i have. also, i just realized i am going to be 29 years old next week (may 19), and i need to grow up a little. certainly there is no age limit for doing something like this on your car, but for where i am in my life right now, i do not think having air suspension of my vehicle looks or makes me feel very professional. if i was younger and didn't have to drive so much it would be a different story. i guess i'll try to sell everything again, and if no one is interested i will part everything out. i know i seem fickle, always changing my mind and messing with my car, but i've had fun doing it and i don't regret doing anything. since i did the labor myself, it's not costing anything and it was nice to be super low for just a little while longer. and even though i still think it looks awesome, i need to move on.

Eric you have a pm

hey man wrong pic.thats the pic from the FIRST day i got it.thats bone stock with 10 miles on it.dont imberess me.hahaha.that was my buddy askin those questions.hes racking his brain trying to figure out a _____in way to drop it even more than we got now.and yours is low.great job Eric
we got a few ideas but not sure. I'll get my new pics up there with my new rims too.check under project cars too.
thanks guys, peace out...... :lol:

mad props goes out to eric m for havent hottest polar white xb ive seen and to everbody else who goth theyre xb on air

hey man wrong pic.thats the pic from the FIRST day i got it.thats bone stock with 10 miles on it.dont imberess me.hahaha.that was my buddy askin those questions.hes racking his brain trying to figure out a _____in way to drop it even more than we got now.and yours is low.great job Eric
we got a few ideas but not sure. I'll get my new pics up there with my new rims too.check under project cars too.
thanks guys, peace out...... :lol:

oops. i thought it was a little high for a car on air. :)

This is my first post so I'll do it right. Just got the xb bagged and wanted to show all of you. Thanks for all the info that helped us get this far.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4286873181

hey man care to share some details on you suspension?

FYI. Airlift says it will have a kit out this year before SEMA. I don't know much about them, but they sell bolt on air kits for lots of imports.

www.airliftcompany.com

i talked to the hack shack b4 sema last year, and they said that they had a complete bolt on kit with billet aluminum brackets, really nice stuff, but i didnt have the cash, so we just went with springs. i would steer clear of the aim garbage, i broke two of those cylinders in a week.

Working for Fender Bender International and having a Scion that isn't bagged is a daily dilemma for me. I just haven't been ready to void warranties and risk being stuck somewhere! No matter how good your parts are, or how good your install is, you WILL have a failure that will leave you without air at some point. Being that I'm in the middle of the air scene every day, and own a bagged truck, I would love to share some pointers that can hopefully help others in their quest for draggin' Scions!

1. Do NOT use copper for your air line! Copper will "work harden" meaning it becomes brittle as it is bent over time- this includes the vibration of just driving down the road! If you want to hard-line your system, use stainless steel- way more money, but it will outlast the vehicle!

2. Use only DOT approved line and fittings! Our shop prefers to use compression fittings over push connect, because you get a more solid connection that can't slip with higher temps and pressures. However, SMC, Norgren, and Parker all have quality push connect fittings that are decent, too. DOT air line is NOT the stuff you find at Home Depot! It has fibers woven into it that give it strength up to 500+ psi!

3. MacPherson strut cars put a tremendous side load on air cylinders. I've seen cheaper cylinders snap in less than a week when used in a front end like ours! Make sure the cylinders you use have a very thick shaft and some kind of pivot where the shaft meets the piston, so it can turn when the wheels turn... EricM, I'm not sure the SMCs are rated for that? I'm wonderin if that's why they creak and crack your upper strut tower? Not sure, but it sounds consistent with what I've experienced... Brisland's Customs makes an air cylinder that we've used on a few vehicles, and while they're expensive, they are designed for extreme duty. www.brislands.com

4. Eric M. has the same birthday as me- Happy birthday!

5. Thomas has the most reliable pumps on the market, period. Viair offers some with better performance, but their warranty is nonexistent and replacement parts aren't available! FBI does NOT recommend or sell Viair pumps for these reasons. Thomas Industries has been around since the 40's, and are made in the good ol' US of A. We stock several of their products, and are very happy with them.

6. While a water separator will help remove some water from the system, it won't get it all. It's better to have a drain in the bottom of the tank that you can empty periodically. BTW, bags, valves, and cylinders these days aren't very sensitive to water, but the tank can rust from the inside out and those rust particles can mess things up!

AirLift, Air Ride Technologies, and others are developing strut bags for the xB for summer releases- Air Lift told me they dropped development on the Saturn kits for our beloved Scions! Just like it oughta be!
I have about 6 years of experience with this airbaggin' stuff, and it's my job to be in the know, so feel free to ask me if you want to know- we'll get a whole encylopedia of information by the time this thread has run its course!

-Phil

The box looks good Phil.
You work at FBI? cool, How's Steve and Kelly? I haven't seen them in about 4 years.
I totally understand your delimea.. Looking at my bodydropped truck, and remembering how fun it was to daily drive a vehicle on air.

glad to see someone mention brislands, they make the best cylinders IMO.. Mac strut application or not, they are the only one's I'd reccomend.

<-- ViAir fan.. SOrry, I've just burnt up way too many Thompson 315 in my life.
:)

tanks - they make tanks that are ceramic coated (or powder coated) inside and out.
water seperators are great, because some valves over time stick due to passing water.. Oiling the valve sometimes keeps this from happening.

I can't wait to see some of the other manufacures bring out air kits for these cars.
Although, I don't see how any bag/strut kit will get as low as cylinders (up front).

Steez man!
Nice stance!How about some details?Did you use bags or struts up front?
I have been really thinking about air but am still undecided.
Having a few cars in the past with hydraulics,Im not sure if I want to deal with it.
I have never owned air.But I have seen allot of setups and can understand their engineering.Pretty reliable from what I gather.
Hydraulics have allot of things that wear out fast and can go wrong.No to mention leaks and charging the batteries.It gets old really fast.But the looks you get from onlookers when you 3 wheel is crazy!
I may be looking for am air setup that is just a slow setup that wont tear my little box apart.

juice.. now there's a topic I figured would make it's way into the forum :)
juice on a mac strut application makes sense. You'll be able to get lower, without alot of difficulty in setup. The cylinders will never break, and imagine the lift, I think you could run a slinder 10" all the way around? (ok maybe an 8 up front, but making a 10 work would be sweet). 4x4 box.

juice has come along way now. you have accumulators to smooth out the ride, and believe me they work, 4 batteries, keep it at 24volts, on 2 pumps, and if you don't play around alot, you probably wont have to charge for like 2 months.
go to a single pump/5 dump setup and your time between charges would increase big time.
once the setup is installed right, it's very clean. yea I do admit seals blow sometimes, tanks expand (explode) if your fluid level isn't right. there is some maintenence, but there is with air too, mainly inspection so that nothing will go worng while you are driving. plus waiting to let air fill the tank so you can lift up.
back to juice, There are things that will help out in these areas, like hard line, and blow proof seals..
like anything: installed right, I think you would be happy.

I'd like to see a juice box. 8)

Thanks for the props! Well I will tell you what I know which won't be in to much detail cause I'm still new to this. Up front I have cylinders and the rear is bags. Everything is mounted underneath the car which saves all the space in the trunk for other things :wink:
The cylinders are nice cause they don't need to much air considering all I have is a 3 gallon tank and 1 compressor. The only problem with the cylinders is that I have 18's and there is a very fine line between rubbing and being to stiff. No issues with the rear at all.
Now my only major concern is the push connectors. Within the first few weeks of having it done the passenger side front air line came off. At least it was parked 'cause with my wheels there would have been plastic everywhere. But it was an easy repair. I am looking into getting steel braided lines for some peace of mind.

Thanks Steez!
What is the offset of your 18's Causing the problems in front?
I have been looking into a kit but I cant decide yet!

My offset is 45, but thats not the problem. The problem is that the tire rests right on the inner fender, so when I'm aired out the wheel's not turning and barely rolling. So you can imagine what would happen if a connection came loose. I now understand why Eric runs smaller wheels.

I finally talked myself into it! The rear of Boxzila is now bagged, and I must say it was easier than I expected. For the time being I'm only running 1 gallon of air with a tiny compressor, but it's enough to lift fully on one hit of the switch! I've put about 40 miles on it so far, with no ill effects, so if things go well I'll probably start making brackets for anyone interested. Now, to talk myself into the front! Here are some pics with the rear dropped- it rolls with no rubbing at this height, too!
http://www.uploadimages.net/images/437332bag-scion-1.jpg

http://www.uploadimages.net/images/637728bag-scion-2.jpg

The front is running with stock struts and Ground Control coilovers for now- this is the setting I drive at, but it can go about 1-1/2" lower for show purposes. I'll post more as I get the tank and compressor mount done.

-Phil and Vicki

SWEET DUDE!
Give us some details on the rear cups or adaptors you used.
Thats one thing this whole thread had lacked!
It looks good!
What company components did you use?
Lets see some more setup pics!!
Please??lol!

I'll be down at the shop tomorrow tying up some loose ends, and I'll try to take some pics then. The rear is set up just like eric m's, from the look of things, with the bag mounted "upside down" from how it would normally be. I offset the plates just a hair to keep them from rubbing on the swingarm itself. I chose not to cut any of the spring pocket, so coils can be reinstalled later if I so choose. I'll get the part number for the shocks I bought, too- they are 2" shorter than stock to allow for this drop. Thanks!

-Phil

BOXZILA ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't wait to see it in person again.

Hey I see you are running 18's.
How can you cruise that low?
Did you not have a problem with hitting your fuel filler tube?
What kit or company?
Thanks!

BOXZILA ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't wait to see it in person again.

LOOKS HOTTT!!! but thats something brad, ken, and i didnt really need to see... :wink:

BOXZILA ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't wait to see it in person again.

LOOKS HOTTT!!! but thats something brad, ken, and i didnt really need to see... :wink:

Uh yeah. I really don't NEED to see it. Dang, everyone is getting supa low.

are the bags 'mounted' or do they just sit in there? I read in one of eric's original posts, that he had to 're-set' the bags after going all the way up.

I talked to a few guys with Air Ride at Showfest in greenville a few weeks ago, and he said there was no plans for an xB kit. Easy street however, said they were working on one.


MattB

ok well there are alot of pro and cons to air ride ive been reading and reading some have good thing to say and some shouldnt be talking at all.


oh yeah by the way what up phil havent talk to u in a while


mind is set up with bags all around camber does change in the front of a macpherson strut type car from -2.0 degrees laid out to a 0.5 degrees raised up . raised im at stock height laid out i tuck 19" wheels so depending on how you do it depends on how low or high you get air strokes good on heavier cars with honda as an example the stroke sits in the center of the lower control arm giving the stroke more leverage on lifting the car and ride quaility on a mac type car the stroke is at the end of the control arm deminishing the lift of a honda and the ride of horse drawn carriage.

<html>http://www.scionlife.com/regimg/11004/Cnv0017.jpg</html>

wheel size does not matter.


Ive also read about splitting up the rear valve set up it do this would just cause you to spend more money on valves and fittings. the rear is a straight axle with torsion stability splitting up the rear bags cancels the purpose of the torsion suspension it does let it work. need to split the front because the bags will send air to each other while turning giving a wild body roll my scion handles better now then stock


<html>http://www.scionlife.com/regimg/11004/Cnv0018.jpg</html>

is the top pic laid out? looks like it is still up some off the rim?

my scion handles better now then stock

http://www.scionlife.com/regimg/11004/Cnv0017.jpg

Your xB looks really good.

Phil is in Pleasanton at the GoodGuys show, but I wanted to chime in and say that since we bagged the rear of the Scion the ride is so much better. I would even argue that it is better than the stock ride. The front is still ultra tight since it is just ground control, but hopefully we will get some time to get the front bagged before this show season is over.

Vicki

have phil call me ill sent you up some

the front will only get to the top of the rim without cutting the strut is completly collapsed

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16281

one problem i always have is scraping my tank if i drop it down when i'm moving. there is a movie of my sparking on the freeway last year during a scion meet that another member took. it looks cool but i'm afraid that eventually it's going to put a hole in the tank which obviously would be bad.
I was just looking through some old videos and found the one of eric m throwing sparks. http://www.randode.com/ericmsparks.MPG

For those front end suspensions we are running our new X-Air system. With the X-Air the bottom bracket is precision machined with 3 bearings pressed into it. The lower bracket rotates on the shaft of the cylinder allowing the front ends to drop all the way down as you can tell on Steez's Xb. As you turn your steering the bracket rotates on the shaft of the cylinder. No longer will you twist the shaft and wear out the seal or rotate the entire cylinder causing airline issues.

On the shaft of the cylinder its over 1 1/4" thick of harden steel. I would like to see this cylinder bend or snap!

We invite you to go purchase the current Issue of Import Racer and there is the 6 page tech article for the full install.

To view another picture of a Xb goto Truckrun.net
(http://64.167.73.175/shows/2004/freakfest/show/pics/DSC09322.JPG)

Currently we are running this system on almost a doz. scions and its laying the front ends out!!

There is other bag strut applications out on the market place, however on the Xb's they sit at aprox the 2" away from the tire laid out.

With the X-Air system in the front end its a DIRECT BOLT-ON application and maximum drop. (Scion's sit with the front tires tucked all the way up inside the fenders.

If you do not wish your car to go that low, we can always assemble your brackets differently to adjust how low and high your car will go.

If you have any questions please feel free to give us a call at 877-399-9987

For those front end suspensions we are running our new X-Air system. With the X-Air the bottom bracket is precision machined with 3 bearings pressed into it. The lower bracket rotates on the shaft of the cylinder allowing the front ends to drop all the way down as you can tell on Steez's Xb. As you turn your steering the bracket rotates on the shaft of the cylinder. No longer will you twist the shaft and wear out the seal or rotate the entire cylinder causing airline issues.

On the shaft of the cylinder its over 1 1/4" thick of harden steel. I would like to see this cylinder bend or snap!

We invite you to go purchase the current Issue of Import Racer and there is the 6 page tech article for the full install.

To view another picture of a Xb goto Truckrun.net
(http://64.167.73.175/shows/2004/freakfest/show/pics/DSC09322.JPG)

Currently we are running this system on almost a doz. scions and its laying the front ends out!!

There is other bag strut applications out on the market place, however on the Xb's they sit at aprox the 2" away from the tire laid out.

With the X-Air system in the front end its a DIRECT BOLT-ON application and maximum drop. (Scion's sit with the front tires tucked all the way up inside the fenders.

If you do not wish your car to go that low, we can always assemble your brackets differently to adjust how low and high your car will go.

If you have any questions please feel free to give us a call at 877-399-9987

Do have strut bags for the front? how much for a 4 way air suspension kit with strut bags for the front (if you make strut bags for the front)?

You can run strut bags in the front however i would recommend against it. With strut bags in the front the xB's the lip of the fender sits aprox. 2" away from the top of the tires on a 17/18" wheel. That is after modifying the strut and dropping the bag as low as possible.

Ive only seen one xB that sits low on bag struts and thats the green one that was at Resolutions last year and also was in Mini Truckin. With his setup he cut and raised his strut towers to allow it to drop down low.

If you run our X-Air setup it will lay your tires flat inside the wheel wells without cutting anything.

my buddy got his scion xb done with the x-air system that the above shop installed for him. recently he had to put it into the shop at the dealership due to the brake lines not being tied out of the way of moving mechanical parts after the air install. apparantly the front left abs/traction control sensor got shredded by the axle as well as the brake line strut mount shredding the cv boot. on the right side the brake line was also pinched causing the brakes to slowly go out (while driving!) i guess this is costing him about $1500 to have the dealership fix and of course its not under warranty due to the cause of the problem being the air suspension mods. the shop offered no help of any kind. think twice before you modify your car like this.

my buddy got his scion xb done with the x-air system that the above shop installed for him. recently he had to put it into the shop at the dealership due to the brake lines not being tied out of the way of moving mechanical parts after the air install. apparantly the front left abs/traction control sensor got shredded by the axle as well as the brake line strut mount shredding the cv boot. on the right side the brake line was also pinched causing the brakes to slowly go out (while driving!) i guess this is costing him about $1500 to have the dealership fix and of course its not under warranty due to the cause of the problem being the air suspension mods. the shop offered no help of any kind. think twice before you modify your car like this.

I WOULD SUGGEST RETURNING THE VEHICLE TO THE SHOP THAT DID YOUR INSTALL OR TAKING THE CAR TO A DIFFERENT SHOP FOR A SECOND OPTION.

i dont know the exact details of whats going on with his xb but he said the shop that did the install offered no help of any kind, saying that they always just leave all the lines hanging there and that it never causes a problem or gets caught on anything.

Typically you will secure the brake line and abs sensor onto the body of the car. typically you can attach the lines onto the hole that is above the drive line, a simple ziptie wrapped around the hole will secure the lines.

damn! that seems so simple! why couldnt the shop just do that in the first place? it could have saved him $1500 and an ulcer! seems like the shop shouldve done something like that to keep the lines out of the way but they didnt, and now hes the 1 stuck with the 1500 charge!

You can run strut bags in the front however i would recommend against it. With strut bags in the front the xB's the lip of the fender sits aprox. 2" away from the top of the tires on a 17/18" wheel. That is after modifying the strut and dropping the bag as low as possible.

Ive only seen one xB that sits low on bag struts and thats the green one that was at Resolutions last year and also was in Mini Truckin. With his setup he cut and raised his strut towers to allow it to drop down low.

If you run our X-Air setup it will lay your tires flat inside the wheel wells without cutting anything.

the X-Air setup? Is it cylinders in the front or airbags? too many horror stories about cylinders. Plus, I am a VIP Tuner. I will run at least a +26 or lower for my offsets for my rims (18x8J).

Yes there is alot of issues with running a cylinder setup in a McPhearson setup when you are running the standard threaded cylinders.

The main issue is when you rotate your steering the internal shaft of the cylinder is twisted causing extra stress on the shaft and severe wear on the internal seals.

With the X-Air system the bottom bracket has the 3 bearings inside allowing the bracket to rotate on the shaft eliminating all prior issues.

Another issue with the standard cylinders is that with the McPhearson suspension the cylinder absorbs the constant "side load" when the car hits a bump/pot hole and if the cylinder shaft is small in diameter (most of my competition is 3/4" or smaller) the shaft can bend/break. With our cylinders we are running a 1 1/4" thick shaft with no threads made from solid harden steel.

As far as with your tuner market I highly recommend our cylinder setup due to the infinitely adjustable dampening (depending on how you install the kit) and force articulation of your vehicle during corning. When you drop the inside of the vehicle while you enter the turn and raise it as your leave the turn the possibilities are limitless.

Also I have a customer that is working on a completely “Active” suspension to level the vehicle while turning, braking, and acceleration. As far as a release date its undetermined.

I HAVE AIR BAGS ALL AROUND IT IS A LOT OF FUN DEFINITLY GET A LOT OF ATTENTION. ESPECIALLY AT SHOWS.

THERE IS A WRITE UP IN IMPORT RACER MAGAZING. FROM EAI BUT THEY STATE THAT YOU CAN ONLY USE BAGS IN THE REAR AND CYLINDERS IN THE FRONT NOT TRUE.

We have never said that you can only use cylinders in front and bags in the rear. However that is by far the best application. You can MAKE anything work for any application. It may not be the best choice but it can be done.

If you have bags all the way around on your scion then you have the bag struts upfront. With the bag struts it will not lay nearly as low as our X-Air system will. However you car will go up and down and fully operate.

ok i just got air on my scion xb. if you realy want it you can go to fbimini.com and they have a kit of the 2004 xb and xa for i think 1800$ good luck.

How low did the vehicle go? Are you running Cylinders, or Bag Struts upfront?

any way to make your kit lower, the only way i'm going to bag my car is if I can lay frame

any way to make your kit lower, the only way i'm going to bag my car is if I can lay frame

you wheel need to tub out your wheel wells for your tires to come through. (a 18" lays flat inside the wheel well). Rear you will need to re-locate your gas tank filler and possibly channel up into your rear subframe for an few extra inches.

Either that or you can go with some small wheels on it too.

give me 2 months, i'm broke now, I don't know about your scion kit, but people tell me your kits are top notch. looking forward to laying frame :D

what type of warranty does eai offer? what if something breaks?

is it true bags dont hold up in the new england winter and you need tochange them once every two years ?

As far as weather goes with the extreme cold the only issues that you will have is if there is condensation inside your airlines/valves and the water freezes causing them to stick.

To resolve this i would recommend either 1. running water traps like you should anyways. 2. Run Nitrogen (completely dry gas, no water) 3. Place the valves inside the engine compartment where the motor will "de-frost" the valves and allow them to flow air.

hi guys. if anyone is interested, i am selling my airbag setup. i wrote up all the details here: http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=345402

i have actually sold this setup a couple different times, but people seem to change their minds at the last minute. but their loss can be your gain. it really is a good quality setup. also, if you have any air suspension related questions, let me know. thanks.

hi guys. if anyone is interested, i am selling my airbag setup. i wrote up all the details here: http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=345402

i have actually sold this setup a couple different times, but people seem to change their minds at the last minute. but their loss can be your gain. it really is a good quality setup. also, if you have any air suspension related questions, let me know. thanks.

^^^^^^Oh my God, Eric is alive!^^^^^^

I was just in SoCal and Randode showed up at Sound Advice w/ Denny! Too bad you couldn't make it.

what do yall think about this kit???

http://www.airliftcompany.com/easystreet/scion/scion.jpg

and here are 2 emails I got from them

Complete front kit which includes: 2 air struts with 9-way dampening adjustment, a rear kit which includes: bags and brackets. You also get our best air management system we offer. This includes a 5 gallon D.O.T. approved tank, 8 3/8" 300 psi chrome valves, all D.O.T. nickel plated fittings, 1/2" D.O.T. airline, 2 dual 200 psi gauges with chrome bezels, a 200 psi 100% duty chrome compressor and all the electrical wire and terminals you will need. Everything also comes with a 1 year warranty against manufacture defects.

The compressor is a Viair compressor. The air bags are manufactured by us. This system is a fbss. You can mount the gauges anywhere you like. A lot of people buy a pillar pod and put them in that. The five gallon tank probably won't fit under the car but I offer a 2 gallon tank that will.

its by easy street air

www.easystreetair.com


let me know what yall think, if you check out the site you will see that you can get the front bags and the back bags, and then the tank and compressor and stuff and seperate. should I get part of this kit and then get my own tank and compressor or does this look kick ___?

I ordered the eai kit last week and got some of it in today, I will post pics when installed. Here are some before pics with tein ss coilovers which are for sale, $850.00. pm me if interested.


http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/747982

i have the easystreet kit on my xB.

how is that going?

what is better the easy street kit or the EAI kit.

well we need peopel to understand that all setups can only go soo low before the sway bar become a problem , and we need someone to ride in a working easystreet setup and a eai setup , i'll ride in a buds easy street tomorrow and let cha know how it is.

ok guys im sure that if you have been doing any research you know this.
the EAI kit has cylinders in the front and bellow bags in the rear
where as the EasyStreet kit has sleeve bags in both the front and the rear

now im new to all of this air stuff so im looking for a kit . i want to have something that has a good ride and also relieable. so anythign that you guys can tell me will be helpfull!!

Easystreets rear kit works fine. I wouldnt buy their front kit again... I had problems with it as well as others. Im awaiting EAIs cylinders to come in.

how are the eai cylinders working out for you? hows the ride.

EVERYONE WITH AIR CYLINDERS.....READ THIS...
i had cylinders installed on my civic, i took them out after nearly 60k miles, you must watch two things...........the little filters on the lower ports need to stay, if the get knocked off or you fail to put them on it will and i mean willl reasult in leakage because of dirt build up on the inner o-rings if this happens it will cause air leakage out of the bottom port......to remedy this you must take the cylinder apart and manually clean and re lube it......next..........A REAL BIGGIE>>>>keep you eyes on the uretahne bushings on the top, over tightening under tightening will cause strut tower crack.....i am serious plus if the bushings become crushed due to wear, replace them..........or they will cause cracks..........this has happend to me and several others.....AIR RIDE ROCKS JUST WATCH YOUR MAINT........you will need to lube those rods peroidically regardless of what aim EAC or anyone tells you i have installed many systems and been around bags and rods for 5-6 years now......any questions drop me an e-mail

i meant AIM-IND or EAC

i have a eai front setup forsale $400.00. with all hardware. 251-391-0347
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/polarxb/100_0185.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/polarxb/100_0178.jpg

I have the easystreet kit installed on my B.O.P. xb. It is awesome. The guys at Easystreet were more than happy to answer any of the questions I had. I had one problem with the driver rear sleeve bag. It didn't seal correctly from the factory and I happened to be the one in a million people with the seal failure. I received a new one in two days under warranty. I have very many people asking me how I like my kit, I LOVE IT!!! Respect the airride and it will respect you. Ask a few of the people on here that live in Phoenix, they could tell you how the system looks and performs. If anyone has any installation questions, lemme know.

youre not the only one who has had a problem with a rear easystreet bag. Mine work fine but another SL member had one bad out of the box.

i hav e a set of x-air cylinders 4sale $400.00.if interested call 251-391-0347.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/polarxb/IMG_0102.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/polarxb/IMG_0101.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/polarxb/IMG_0100.jpg
pics installed.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/polarxb/100_0185.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/polarxb/100_0181.jpg

i have bags on mine with 18's and was wonderin if you could explain how to lay out the back so i could drag the frame, in the back i got it to about 3.5" off the ground and the front is 2" off the ground but dont know where to go from there, and cutting is not a problem

i have bags on mine with 18's and was wonderin if you could explain how to lay out the back so i could drag the frame, in the back i got it to about 3.5" off the ground and the front is 2" off the ground but dont know where to go from there, and cutting is not a problem

have you taken out your rear bumpstops yet? Take out the bumpstops from the rear shocks and either cut them in half or remove them completely and it will drop considerably.

Air Camber Issues in the front?

I think i found a way to get it perfect:

either get the EZcam camber bolts from any goldline dealer (precicions muffler in ca, scion specialties of vegas...) part# 81260, adjusts +-1.75 costs $47

or from toyota, part #90105 - 14147 aka "crash bolt?" cost $2.16 each bolt, so under 10 for 4...and that supposedly will cure the problem (ill be ordering them today; should get them in a few days...

these are the most economical ways, and my true suggestion would be to go with Goldline; the bolts are thicker and offer a better range of adjustment... we'll c how this goes...

UPDATE: on the use of the "crash Bolt"

the only place it can be used is the lower bolt hole in the bracket' the upper can be pushed back as far as it's slotted, and then it hits the shock.. so it won't go in further.

int he lower bolt hole; i had a huge improvement in handeling; and it's a good fix for $5 even if it's not perfect yet.. though i'll never run rims w/that camber...

ill update again when/if i get the ezCam bolts in

well, its been a while since ive had a chance to update the news on my air ride... teh crash bolt caused quite a bit of negative camber....in a few hundred miles ive already got the steel belt of the tire showing...

now my question: if i were to have my car aligned with air suspension, then go back to goldline coils up front..will i need to have it re-aligned?

im guessing yes; someone pm me about it if possible. thx!

~tesh

is anyone famililar with air runner suspension for the scion xA?

its the same as the xBs suspension setup - and as said, it works great! pm bboxd if you hav q's on airrunner --

I am runnign a FBI rides air suspension setup with easy street strut bags on the front. I also am running Camber plates from FBI which they customized for the scion bolt pattern. No more cambe rissues and tire wearing. Worked like a charm and yes if you were to go back to springs you would need to get allignment again.

some one please list all the parts needed for an air suspension like fittings and all that stuff ok well thx in advance and one more since air struts are used in the front how would i use just a bag is there a braket

i can also answer any questions involved with airrunner air suspension. my xb is driven daily and has been riding on air for thousands of miles. let me know if i can help in any way guys!

hi everyone
new to the forum here
would like to get a scion xb but alswyas have about 300 lbs of musci gear in the back,
i live in new england so I'm concerned about bottoming out with the load and how it will all go in the winter any ideas to beef up the rear suspension, i'm actually looking not to lower the car but to keep the rear end up with the 300lbs in the back

thanks!

hi everyone
new to the forum here
would like to get a scion xb but alswyas have about 300 lbs of musci gear in the back,
i live in new england so I'm concerned about bottoming out with the load and how it will all go in the winter any ideas to beef up the rear suspension, i'm actually looking not to lower the car but to keep the rear end up with the 300lbs in the back

thanks!

Air Lift sells a Load Assist kit for the rears. You don't replace any suspension components,you're installing a pair of airbags inside the rear springs. Part # 60744
http://www.airliftcompany.com/new-index/Frameset.htm

what would happen to air ride in cold weather if anything? like below freezing.

a buddy of mine has a civic on bags. and will sell me the entire kit cheap. he says all ill need is different bags to fit my tC. i dont know much about air suspension. and am not even totally sure yet that i'll do it. but my question is..can i use a "universal" bag thats listed as Scion Compatible? i only ask because it says nothing about the tC. ive noticed on most sites they only have the bags and/or air suspension kits for the xA and xB. thanks in advance for any help.

As far as I know, there are no commercially available kits for the tC right now. I know earlier this year Auto Fashion in San Diego was looking for a tC to develop a new Air Runner kit with. Even if they had a kit for the tC it might not help you in your situation. Air Runner only sells complete kits. So either the Air Runner air management, or the parts from your buddy would be a complete waste.

Another option would be buying "Universal" parts from Air Lift/Easystreet. This would require some previous experience with air suspension, and some pretty decent fabrication ability.

If neither of those work for you, it may be time to find a "local" shop that specializes in CUSTOM air suspension.

aah, just my luck. fabricating something myself isnt really an option. if it wasnt a brand new car, id think about it. so id really rather have it done right. so that everything stock can just be replaced back in when needed. and i wouldnt mind finding a complete kit. but like you said, there aren't any available. thanks for the help.

I do know of a place that is working on a bolt on kit of the tC. It should be out the first of the year

the Air Runner kit is in stock for the TC. its a direct bolt-on application. retail is $4000. if you're located in Norcal, i can get you any Air Runner kit and have it installed in Santa Clara/San Jose area. my buddy van @onetongarage does the install. PM me if u have any questions/comments. if you're in Socal, go to GT PRO www.gtpro.com

i have my air tank mount on my sub box in the rear. just got a pancake tank. but i don't see a way of mounting it under the car does any one have tanks under the car and where are they? pics good

i will be mounting my tanks over my sub box also.... its eather two 5 gallon tanks or one 9 gallon tank

i have my air tank mount on my sub box in the rear. just got a pancake tank. but i don't see a way of mounting it under the car does any one have tanks under the car and where are they? pics good

I'm sure this guy is on this forum, his name is Dave. His tank is mounted under in his xB.

http://vipstylecars.com/forum/index.php?topic=4062.0

We bagged BoxRod and we put everything under the back. Two firestone 3 gal slim tanks and everything eles

Any tips on installing the East Street front and rear kit?

Hay lance i live in virgina i baged my xb in 04.I could help you with your ride if you need it .Im a airride,hydraulics installer off coolcars From kentucky.So let me know if you still need some help.

Hay lance i live in virgina i baged my xb in 04.I could help you with your ride if you need it .Im a airride,hydraulics installer off coolcars From kentucky.So let me know if you still need some help.

If anybody wants a good deal on a kit let me know