Yesterday, we took a day off work and went up to Willow Springs Raceway for some hot lapping at Streets of Willow. As noted in my BBK thread, UPS didnt get my wheel spacers to me in time to install my StopTech BBK so I had to run stock brakes with Axxis Ultimate brake pads which were the highest performance pads we had in stock at the time. These are not track pads, but knowing I had a sweet BBK waiting for me at home, I wasnt too worried about destroying my rotors and pads. I was also running my stock tires since I wasnt able to get the Falken Azenis RT-615s in time, but as it turned out the stock tires and brakes complimented each other well enough that neither got overly abused.

At first I was pretty intimidated by the cars that were out there. Plenty of EVOs, WRX/STi's, BMW 3 Series and M3s, a few Prosche 911s and Boxters, S2000s, and a few 350Zs. we were spaced into groups depending on ability and since a few of us dont have much track experience we were placed in the novice group. My biggest competition waas my co-worker Howard in his RSX with Yokohama tires, OZ wheels, StopTech BBK, coilovers, swaybars, strut bars, basic engine bolt ons and an ECU tuning. My car has the TRD suspension, Injen CAI, Alphawerks header and CC S-pipe but only stock tires and brakes.

I had another on of my co-workers Tim drive the first few laps with me as a passenger to familiarize myself with the proper line and braking points. His initial impression was that the car felt pretty good and should end up pretty quick. I got behind the wheel and took a few laps to get used to the car on the track before I strated pushing it hard. The first theing I noticed about the TRD parts is that they are probably on the soft side for serious track use, but not inadequate by any means. The body roll was noticeable but not excessive and transitions required some practice to time the weight transfer. After pushing the car harder the I felt the car was very balanced yet understeery, but extremely predictable. I would occasionally charge too deep into a corner and Id get a little rear end wiggle but it never wanted to step out. At the end of the 1st session I had the best lap time in my group with a 1:45.8. At the end of the day my best time was 1:41.5s which was a great reduction in time. Howard's best time after the 3rd session was a 1:41.3s which made me really want to go after it, but I had a problem with the car in the last session that made a final showdown impossible.

It turns out that when the car gets down to about 1/4 of a tank theres some fuel slosh issues that made the engine cut out when I came out of the tight right handers. I took about 4 laps in the last session but pulled off due to the problem. It ended up costing about 3-4 seconds a lap with my times in the 1:45 range. Howards best time was about 1:40.8s which Im pretty sure I could have matched if the car wasnt cutting out.

The main thing I realized when driving was that tires are more important than anything else with brakes following close behind. I was braking as hard as I could while heel-toe downshifting to slow the car down which left the brakes groaning under full ABS and the tires squealing like banshees under the abuse. The car was good for about 5-6 laps before the tires got greasy and the brakes started to fade but it was still very driveable. What I was most impressed by about the car was how well it composed itself and I had no problem pulling up on some serious competition and then driving away. I pretty much owned a couple of M3s a boxter and an VW R32 that all had the potential to beat me, but the drivers werent up to it. Im sure they were suprised to see a Scion hounding their rear bumpers and then pull away in the twisty bits after they let me by.

My final impressions on the day were that 1) a racing seat will make race driving way more pleasant...the stock seats let you move around way too much 2) tires tires tires, 3) better braking = lower lap times 4) its all about the driver. If you have a fast car but cant drive it well, youll be the slowest car on the track.

Im looking forward to hitting the track again with better tires and brakes and I expect to be under 1:40. I will also be adding a strut tower bar to help make the front end more solid. I think the TRD suspension will work out for a few more trips but will eventually be a weak spot and coilovers will be required. Regardless, tracking the car is an absolute blast and I can hoinestly say that htere is NO WAY you will EVER be able to push your car as hard as on the street as you can on the track. Theres nothing like throwing the car into a sweeper at 80mph and then slamming on the brakes as hard as you can to slow up for the next turn. The smell of tires, brakes and exhaust is overwhelming and intoxicating at the same time and makes you look forward to the next turn or chicane. I fyou have an opportunity to get some track time, dont turn it down...you will love it and be hooked...I know I am.

Heres a picture of the track layout:

http://socalpcguy.com/images/streetsofwillow.JPG

Thanks to Raamaudio for the tire pressure advice...made a huge difference!

nice read, i can tell you from my tire experience (dunno if you read my bolt thread) the Potenza are obviously horrible, those new Falkens should surprise you. killerxromance told the tc stock suspension isn't that great for track so i would imagine sways would improve it big time. and I've had to deal with fuel slosh on road a few times :) I would kill for some track time around here.

Isnt Road Atlanta realtively clost to you? we had to drive almost 2 hours to get to the track and that was with no traffic...we left at 5:30AM :doh: . Im really happy with how the TRD parts worked, but I can tell theyre gonna become inadequate as I get better. Maybe some Hotchkis sways will be enough to keep the car from leaning over as much. Just not looking forward to the install on those :tap:

yes, road atlanta is about 45 mins north, but like i said, they never really have track events for novices that i know of.

That sucks..usually most tracks do that. I was looking at the track layout and it looks kind of big for a tC. Lots of long straights and a few tight turns. Probably a little dangerous for a street car. Can you imagine the closing speeds if you were on track in the tC with some Prosches or Z06's...scary.

Glad to see someone tracking the TC and understanding that exact thing that you found out. On my new TC, since it is a DD as well as fun car, I am keeping with the TRD Springs and Shocks, but going with Hotchkis sways this time because I think it will help on the track a bit. We'll find out when the weather gets better up here in Oregon.

Road Atlanta does offer some days where you can run. I think you have to be registered with SCCA and take some classes but yea, you can do it. I used to have a Ford Ranger and I went to a practice session. The lady asked if I was gonna run it! LOL!

I am planning on going up in 2006. If ya want, we can get a group to go....

Road Atlanta does offer some days where you can run. I think you have to be registered with SCCA and take some classes but yea, you can do it. I used to have a Ford Ranger and I went to a practice session. The lady asked if I was gonna run it! LOL!

I am planning on going up in 2006. If ya want, we can get a group to go....oh god i would totally be up for that. no other meets going on between then? feel free to im me, i've been really trying to find scionlifers around atlanta.

yea i did that track back in june with some other tc's. very fun track except i kept getting black flagged. i had also gotten new tires the week before so i dont know if i broke em in properly for that track day. overall the tc felt stable and pretty fun to drive but it needs to be balanced out more in my opnion. the understeer can be very disturbing at higher speed turns.

Heres some shots of my car on the track:

Me about to OWN this Civic :P

http://www.socalpcguy.com/images/TracktC01.JPG

Stock tires squealing like a stuck pig under the stress:

http://www.socalpcguy.com/images/TracktC02.JPG

http://www.socalpcguy.com/images/TracktC04.JPG

The red box on the lower grille is the transponder unit that tracks lap times.

As you can see there is some body roll, but nothing too ridiculous. Hotchkis sways would probably help out a lot.

what tire pressure advice did he tell you... and what track is this? Not button willow right?

No..Streets of Willow which sits right behind Willow Springs Raceway.

He reccomended 35-40PSI up front and about 32-35 PSI for the rear. I went out at 30 front and rear for the 1st session and it wasnt all that great. After airing up it was much better.

im very surprised....

how many laps did you put out? track temp is very crucial and can change the outcome of how well ur car performs

i was on the track in july.
but with different tires and springs and hood and hatch...

the ligthen rear made it a lot lighter and easy to turn into turns and the TEIN S.tech's drop made it possible. all positive results.

until the track started to heat up and my tires slip everywhere. slips on entry a lil and espeicaly on exiting... we need som LSD!!!!

ZPI is working on a 6spd conversion kit that includes this

TI - If you run the tracks much more you should invest in the hotchkis sways.... I just put them on my car recently and it made a HUGE difference over the TRD bars. No joke... HUGE! All that lean in your car there will be almost gone. You will be scrubing tires way harder because the car will be so much more level.

The good part about that setup with just the TRD bar is definately shown in those pictures I think... that is, good balance. The front and rear both look equally rolled.

nice pics. how much did you air it up the second time anyway?

Very VERY well written!!!

I've always said TRD stuff is overrated.

Again, great thread. Wish there was more of this here.

im very surprised....

how many laps did you put out? track temp is very crucial and can change the outcome of how well ur car performs

i was on the track in july.
but with different tires and springs and hood and hatch...

the ligthen rear made it a lot lighter and easy to turn into turns and the TEIN S.tech's drop made it possible. all positive results.

until the track started to heat up and my tires slip everywhere. slips on entry a lil and espeicaly on exiting... we need som LSD!!!!

I ended up running about 30 laps over the whole day from 8 AM to 5 PM. It started out realtively cool but warmed up throughout the day. It was between 45 degrees in the morning to a high in the low 70s. Never got too hot so the track stayed pretty nice.

TI - If you run the tracks much more you should invest in the hotchkis sways.... I just put them on my car recently and it made a HUGE difference over the TRD bars. No joke... HUGE! All that lean in your car there will be almost gone. You will be scrubing tires way harder because the car will be so much more level.

The good part about that setup with just the TRD bar is definately shown in those pictures I think... that is, good balance. The front and rear both look equally rolled.

I agree the Hotchkis is probaly a must before the next track day...along with wheels, tires, exhaust, strut tower brace, LSD, racing seats...damn racing is expensive.

I agree though that the TRD setup is very well balanced and stable but a little on the understeery side...all in all its a very predictable confidence inspiring setup.

nice pics. how much did you air it up the second time anyway?

It ended up being in the 35-38 PSI range cold in the front that went up to about 45 right off the track. The guys out at the track said it was a little high, but the car felt much better and my lap times were better. I wasnt too worried about the tires since they will be replaced soon. The outer tread blocks look like they were hit with a belt sander they got so chewed up out there.

Very VERY well written!!!

I've always said TRD stuff is overrated.

Again, great thread. Wish there was more of this here.

Thanks...if only I could have written about cars in english class as opposed to poetry and symbolism.

Did you mean to say TRD is overrated or underrated?

I would say its underrated as the other other guys who drove my car were very impressed considering I had stock tires and brakes at the track. These guys were runing full coilovers and Toyo R compound tires. The only area it appears to be lacking to me in is the sway bar department.

Very nice writeup, and love the pics. The tC looks extra sexy when it's on the track. :D

When I went autocrossing they recommended I inflate the tires to 40psi and they seemed to do just fine, although I suppose since I was on a much shorter course the heat buildup isn't really an issue.

so would the ideal setup be TRD shocks/struts w/ hochkis sways?

Thanks...if only I could have written about cars in english class as opposed to poetry and symbolism.

Did you mean to say TRD is overrated or underrated?

I would say its underrated as the other other guys who drove my car were very impressed considering I had stock tires and brakes at the track. These guys were runing full coilovers and Toyo R compound tires. The only area it appears to be lacking to me in is the sway bar department.


so would the ideal setup be TRD shocks/struts w/ hochkis sways?

I'm more of a Progress person myself.

You're just paying for the nameplate "TRD" instead of buying KYB shocks, Eibach Spings.

I'd prefer Koni shocks/struts and progress springs/sways for a setup instead of TRD. You get a better value, and you can control your damper.

Again just my personal preference, and again great write up! :)

^^got any links and or specs for those uE?

^^got any links and or specs for those uE?

For which?

koni,progress.

You're just paying for the nameplate "TRD" instead of buying KYB shocks, Eibach Spings.

I'd prefer Koni shocks/struts and progress springs/sways for a setup instead of TRD. You get a better value, and you can control your damper.

Again just my personal preference, and again great write up! :)

FYI, the TRD setup is available for much less than the Koni/eibach or progress setup. I got a good deal on my shocks...otherwise I would have gone with a coilover setup.

Hey Instigator, IYO which setup would be better performancewise?

For best performance a coilover setup is best because you can adjust to any condition, but for everyday driving the TRD setup is fantastic. On the track, the Hotchis sways are probably much better, but a little overkill for a daily driver...unless you like it that way. For the price the TRD stuff cant be beat...especially with the package deals from Mcgeorge pars and TRD Sparks.

ty

ZPI is working on a 6spd conversion kit that includes this

are you sure?

positive just call them

You've experienced the same things that I and others have with the tC on the track:

-Rear end gets loose under braking and during turn-in
-Fuel starvation with less than half a tank
-It is really fun to pass much more expensive cars

The TRD shocks are a little soft. But I got the full TRD suspension for less than $500 shipped, so I can't complain.

Kudos for taking your tC to the track.

I agree, but I never had the rear end get loose under braking..the only time it even hinted at oversteering was when I braked way too late for a turn and got the back end to wiggle a little on turn in.

I agree, but I never had the rear end get loose under braking..the only time it even hinted at oversteering was when I braked way too late for a turn and got the back end to wiggle a little on turn in.

I didn't really mean 'loose' as in oversteering. The problem I have is that the back end feels 'light' and unstable when braking hard from high speed. Even when braking in a dead straight line, the feeling is there. It is very discomforting.

If you haven't had this problem, I would be interested to know your alignment specs, if you have them.

My alignment settings are:

Stock tires, TRD shocks and springs with no alignment after the drop lol.

I am waiting to align it after I get my new wheels and tires. I didnt notice any lightness in the rear end though

i autocross regularly in the box, although i'm done until spring time again. However, of course its a drivers race, this past "season" for me i won four out of six times in my class, and almost all beat tons of out of my class cars with overall times. Of course, this wasn't my first experiences either for i did it with my gs-r too. Anyway, point is glad to see you are having fun.

However, TRD sucks for autocross. Too much body roll, and the springs aren't set up for track use. (hints so much body roll, they were designed for sport street) DF210's or s-techs will serve you much, much greater than trd will. But, to either their own.

Have fun with the tC and be safe. :clap:

Cya

are you going on the 16th ? i couldnt make it anymore since driver list is full.