Let's pick it up in here instead of messing up the "Tookie" thread. Care to elaborate on that statement?

I guess no one wanted to follow the thread....

I guess not.

OK, I'll start... Bush is such a moron, he was able to get elected to the most important job in the free world. He was so stupid that he beat my guy who was a genius...Yeah, right, the short bus kids always beat the A students.... right?

Look, just because he earned his bachelor's degree from Yale and his Master's degree from Harvard....and just because he got himself elected to be the Gov. of Texas.....and just because he not only got elected as President of the United States, but he also got re-elected by winning both the popular vote and the electoral college.....you think he's smart.

Naaahhhhh, he is a moron because I have no respect for someone who has applied themselves.

We need to get Zach in here him and I, the 4 of us all could go on for hours insulting and bashing Pres. Bush.. I'm contemplating even opening my mouth and getting something started.. Zach knows how much of a fan of Bush I really am.. :lol:

Only thing is, I am a fan......shhhhhhhh

LOL....I don't think he picked up on the sarcasm.

:lol: your in the closet about your standings ha ha good stuff.


And don't worry I wont tell a soul

And yes matt I did pick up on it.... Its just this site is moving soo slow I cant reply quick enough..

Any moron can sit back and armchair quarterback, especially after the fact. Let's just assume Bush is retarded and you are way smarter, What would your plans be for this nation from today forward? I always hear complaining about what was done but never hear anything about what some would DO. I voted for Bush and the only other choice I had was Kerry. How do you think Kerry would be getting along about now?

And yes matt I did pick up on it.... Its just this site is moving soo slow I cant reply quick enough..Oh, my bad. Yeah, what is up with this place today? It is crawwwwwwling.

And yes matt I did pick up on it.... Its just this site is moving soo slow I cant reply quick enough..Oh, my bad. Yeah, what is up with this place today? It is crawwwwwwling.


Lol Its cool matt and yeah this place is crawling I have been wondering wtf for a while..

No seriously, I like some of what he has done, I don't agree with other things he has done... But, I am mature enuff to know that no leader can do what I'd do all the time. Hell, I do things I do agree with.....

BUT, some people here just flat out hate the man. The office of the Presidency should be treated with respect. I don't see a lot of respect from those people. He has led us thru some seriously hard times and he has done what his advisors and he has thought best for this great country. If you don't agree, say "I don't agree" and try to do more for your candidate to win next time. To call the leader of the free world names is shameful!!!!
Did I like Clinton? No, but I respected the job he was doing. Do I like Kerry? No, and I don't agree with what he is saying, giving aide and comfort to our enemies. Ditto for Dean. For the most part, Bush has responded to his critics with great restraint. I know I couldn't hold my tongue in light of all the lies told about him. How would some of the Bush haters like being called a moron every day? It only shows a lack of education and respect. And someone should teach them a little of both.

I want to know, honestly, how democrats like being called stupid by their own party? If my party went around saying I was too slow to know how to vote, or I was too illiterate to be able to read a ballot, or any of the other insults they throw around after they loose yet another election, I would be shouting from the rooftops that those so called leaders do not speak for me! But no one does that. Why? Are the leaders right? Are the voters for their candidates really that dumb?



BTW, I thought it was just my puter that was so slow today... :tap:

I can't resist adding to this thread so here goes. I don't like the job the president and his administration have done because they:

1. lack a REAL environmental policy (failing to join the rest of the 1st world in supporting Kyoto and denying that human activity affects the environment enough to make a negative impact)
2. support nations that do not regard their citizens' human rights (China, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan before 9/11), but condemn other countries for the same crimes (Iraq, North Korea)
3. have implemented a preemptive war strategy
4. undermined and disrespected the global community by going to war with Iraq and torturing and detaining suspects in secret
5. are riddled with legal and moral issues (federal indictments, SEC investigations, top secret information leaks)
6. failed to respond quickly and effectively - to this day! - to hurricane ravaged areas of our own country (this one hits close to home for me...)
7. have exhibited a conflict of interests with corporate entities (no bid contracts, "energy task force")
8. take more vacations in a period of 6 months than I (and most hard working Americans) have in the past 3 years
9. continue to cut taxes for the rich while cutting the budgets or simply doing away with programs for the less fortunate (including veterans)
10. use religion and the military to further their agenda

I could list more, but that's what I could come up with off the top of my head.

... one more thing, I'm not Democrat nor Republican. I do not buy into the illusion that we have freedom of political choice since the 2 reigning parties do not encompass the beliefs of an entire nation.

We could go back & forth about this stuff for weeks. I started this thread to address the statement about President Bush being responsible for loss of life. The context in which that statment was made really has me wondering exactly what he meant by it. I'd like to try and stay on topic.

I can't resist adding to this thread so here goes. I don't like the job the president and his administration have done because they:

1. lack a REAL environmental policy (failing to join the rest of the 1st world in supporting Kyoto and denying that human activity affects the environment enough to make a negative impact)
2. support nations that do not regard their citizens' human rights (China, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan before 9/11), but condemn other countries for the same crimes (Iraq, North Korea)
3. have implemented a preemptive war strategy
4. undermined and disrespected the global community by going to war with Iraq and torturing and detaining suspects in secret
5. are riddled with legal and moral issues (federal indictments, SEC investigations, top secret information leaks)
6. failed to respond quickly and effectively - to this day! - to hurricane ravaged areas of our own country (this one hits close to home for me...)
7. have exhibited a conflict of interests with corporate entities (no bid contracts, "energy task force")
8. take more vacations in a period of 6 months than I (and most hard working Americans) have in the past 3 years
9. continue to cut taxes for the rich while cutting the budgets or simply doing away with programs for the less fortunate (including veterans)
10. use religion and the military to further their agenda

I could list more, but that's what I could come up with off the top of my head.That's exactly what my post was about. You sit back and whine about what has happened but what would YOU do better for the future and how would you do it? If YOU were elected today to get the nation on the right track what would you do smart guy?And keep in mind you would be under the same constraints as Bush is. If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.

I can't resist adding to this thread so here goes. I don't like the job the president and his administration have done because they:

1. lack a REAL environmental policy (failing to join the rest of the 1st world in supporting Kyoto and denying that human activity affects the environment enough to make a negative impact)
2. support nations that do not regard their citizens' human rights (China, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan before 9/11), but condemn other countries for the same crimes (Iraq, North Korea)
3. have implemented a preemptive war strategy
4. undermined and disrespected the global community by going to war with Iraq and torturing and detaining suspects in secret
5. are riddled with legal and moral issues (federal indictments, SEC investigations, top secret information leaks)
6. failed to respond quickly and effectively - to this day! - to hurricane ravaged areas of our own country (this one hits close to home for me...)
7. have exhibited a conflict of interests with corporate entities (no bid contracts, "energy task force")
8. take more vacations in a period of 6 months than I (and most hard working Americans) have in the past 3 years
9. continue to cut taxes for the rich while cutting the budgets or simply doing away with programs for the less fortunate (including veterans)
10. use religion and the military to further their agenda

I could list more, but that's what I could come up with off the top of my head.

This might get good....

1) The Kyoto Treaty is only good for punishing us.. We have cut back the amount of BS greenhose gasses while the third world countries do nothing but demand that we do more while they do less. What can be proven that we have caused? Global warming is just a scare tactic theory.
2)Have you ever thought that we as a nation might need to support some nations that can help us? Support does not mean that we condone their actions.
3) My faveorite....What kind of war strategy do you prefer? You want to save travel expenses and fight wars here at home? Anyone that cares for this country had rather fight on foreign soil. Break someone elses stuff.
4)The global community is a part in this war. The charges of torture and detaining prisoners has not been proven. How do you know who is the enemy when the enemy is to cowardly to put on a uniform? Even if there has been torture, how many planes have chashed into buildings full of innocent people? If we are torturing the enemy, I say, do it some more! I want the world to know that this great country will kick your @ss if you dare us.
5) This is not the first administration to face these problems. It is, however, the first to face so many blatently false accusations... You do know that the charges against Delay are that he did what the law allowed in respect to campaign finances?
Lying under oath and witness intimadation are not.. BTW, Clinton did those things.
6)Do you think Bush is sitting in Washington saying to hold up on aid to your area? How fast would be fast enuff for you?
7)No bid contracts have been the law way before Bush was elected. Do your research, please. Bush has no interests in any energy companies. If he does, they are in blind trusts. Something some of your Dems don't play by those rules.
In fact, it has been proven that in emergency situations, 'No Bid' is the most effective way to do things. You think repair to your area are slow now, you can bet less than half of what is done if bids had be let. There is usually a 30 day bid "season", then the bids have to be approved, then the winning company has to get things lined up to start the job....I hope you see where this is headed...
8)That is rediculous!!! You think you deserve as many vacations as the leader of the free world???? If you do, then run for the job. I seriously doubt that your job is as stressful.
9) It is proven time and again that tax cuts stimulate the economy. The rich deserve bigger tax cuts, they pay more in taxes. (They get more vacations than you, as well).If the "less fortunate" don't like their programs cut, they need to get jobs to become some of the 'fortunate'. How long do you think welfare should last? How much do you think the payoff should be?
10) Where do you get that he has used religion to further his agenda???? Are you still free to worship as you choose or choose not to? If someone is sitting outside your door taking you to church every Sunday, blink your eyes in Morse code so we can get you help. As for the military use, I am proud that his agenda is democracy.

We could go back & forth about this stuff for weeks. I started this thread to address the statement about President Bush being responsible for loss of life. The context in which that statment was made really has me wondering exactly what he meant by it. I'd like to try and stay on topic.

The administration's selective picking of true intelligence (while ignoring intelligence to the contrary of their decision), its propagation of known bad intelligence, and the preemptive war it sold and waged based on this information makes them very much responsible for any lives lost (not just Americans) because of their decision to go to war with Iraq. Congress did not make the decision to go to war (even though they voted to give the president the power to do so, which is not the same), Americans did not have a vote on it, and Iraq sure didn't ask to be "liberated", so there is only one party involved that should (and hopefully will) be held accountable for the mistakes leading up to and during this war.

We could go back & forth about this stuff for weeks. I started this thread to address the statement about President Bush being responsible for loss of life. The context in which that statment was made really has me wondering exactly what he meant by it. I'd like to try and stay on topic.
I must apologize matt, Please disreguard my post.

That's exactly what my post was about. You sit back and whine about what has happened but what would YOU do better for the future and how would you do it? If YOU were elected today to get the nation on the right track what would you do smart guy?And keep in mind you would be under the same constraints as Bush is. If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.

I have never nor will I ever run for president, so I don't consider it my job to come up with ideas and formulate make-believe decisions that a president should be competent enough and capable of making. The fact remains that this administration has made mistakes and is incapable of admitting them in order to improve itself. Let me ask you a question, what is it that this current administration has done that was so great that you feel the need to be apologetic and defensive of? I would take offense to your comments about me "whining" and being a "smart guy", but I don't really hold your opinion high, so I won't. Your last statement embodies the type of person you and coincidentally our president is; someone who sees the world in absolutes, it's either black or white, there is no in between.

pdrizzle for president!

We could go back & forth about this stuff for weeks. I started this thread to address the statement about President Bush being responsible for loss of life. The context in which that statment was made really has me wondering exactly what he meant by it. I'd like to try and stay on topic.

The administration's selective picking of true intelligence (while ignoring intelligence to the contrary of their decision), its propagation of known bad intelligence, and the preemptive war it sold and waged based on this information makes them very much responsible for any lives lost (not just Americans) because of their decision to go to war with Iraq. Congress did not make the decision to go to war (even though they voted to give the president the power to do so, which is not the same), Americans did not have a vote on it, and Iraq sure didn't ask to be "liberated", so there is only one party involved that should (and hopefully will) be held accountable for the mistakes leading up to and during this war.

Every country had access to the same intel.. It is that simple.I really doubt that Bush went over every bit of information there was.

Besides, how many wars have we the people been allowed to vote on? Were you called when Clinton deployed troops?
You really think that people that will stand in line all day with the fear of being killed by some cowardly homicide bomber to vote for a new leader didn't want to be liberated???? People yearn to be free.

Instead of complaining for a lame duck (if you guys even know what that means), you should be campaigning to prevent the same mistakes from occuring.

By working instead of complaining like female dogs, you can insure that we have GOOD candidates to choose from, instead of anybody anywhere close to the stupidity of Kerry or Bush.

There is absolutely nothing you can do about the current situation, except work to fix it for next time. You can't impeach him, simply because he has done a bad job. You can't kill him, since it's nearly impossible, even if you tried. Hello? What are you going to do? Give him manic depression? I don't think so. Actions speak louder than words, and if you're going to use words, you have to have a goal (if you want to be productive).

This might get good....

1) The Kyoto Treaty is only good for punishing us.. We have cut back the amount of BS greenhose gasses while the third world countries do nothing but demand that we do more while they do less. What can be proven that we have caused? Global warming is just a scare tactic theory.
2)Have you ever thought that we as a nation might need to support some nations that can help us? Support does not mean that we condone their actions.
3) My faveorite....What kind of war strategy do you prefer? You want to save travel expenses and fight wars here at home? Anyone that cares for this country had rather fight on foreign soil. Break someone elses stuff.
4)The global community is a part in this war. The charges of torture and detaining prisoners has not been proven. How do you know who is the enemy when the enemy is to cowardly to put on a uniform? Even if there has been torture, how many planes have chashed into buildings full of innocent people? If we are torturing the enemy, I say, do it some more! I want the world to know that this great country will kick your @ss if you dare us.
5) This is not the first administration to face these problems. It is, however, the first to face so many blatently false accusations... You do know that the charges against Delay are that he did what the law allowed in respect to campaign finances?
Lying under oath and witness intimadation are not.. BTW, Clinton did those things.
6)Do you think Bush is sitting in Washington saying to hold up on aid to your area? How fast would be fast enuff for you?
7)No bid contracts have been the law way before Bush was elected. Do your research, please. Bush has no interests in any energy companies. If he does, they are in blind trusts. Something some of your Dems don't play by those rules.
In fact, it has been proven that in emergency situations, 'No Bid' is the most effective way to do things. You think repair to your area are slow now, you can bet less than half of what is done if bids had be let. There is usually a 30 day bid "season", then the bids have to be approved, then the winning company has to get things lined up to start the job....I hope you see where this is headed...
8)That is rediculous!!! You think you deserve as many vacations as the leader of the free world???? If you do, then run for the job. I seriously doubt that your job is as stressful.
9) It is proven time and again that tax cuts stimulate the economy. The rich deserve bigger tax cuts, they pay more in taxes. (They get more vacations than you, as well).If the "less fortunate" don't like their programs cut, they need to get jobs to become some of the 'fortunate'. How long do you think welfare should last? How much do you think the payoff should be?
10) Where do you get that he has used religion to further his agenda???? Are you still free to worship as you choose or choose not to? If someone is sitting outside your door taking you to church every Sunday, blink your eyes in Morse code so we can get you help. As for the military use, I am proud that his agenda is democracy.

Your retorts to my points might as well have been "nu uh!" Practically all of your replies were personal opinions (some of which are based on bad information).

Instead of complaining for a lame duck (if you guys even know what that means), you should be campaigning to prevent the same mistakes from occuring.

By working instead of complaining like female dogs, you can insure that we have GOOD candidates to choose from, instead of anybody anywhere close to the stupidity of Kerry or Bush.

There is absolutely nothing you can do about the current situation, except work to fix it for next time. You can't impeach him, simply because he has done a bad job. You can't kill him, since it's nearly impossible, even if you tried. Hello? What are you going to do? Give him manic depression? I don't think so. Actions speak louder than words, and if you're going to use words, you have to have a goal (if you want to be productive).

I like to vent my frustrations sometimes... it helps a bit.

This might get good....

1) The Kyoto Treaty is only good for punishing us.. We have cut back the amount of BS greenhose gasses while the third world countries do nothing but demand that we do more while they do less. What can be proven that we have caused? Global warming is just a scare tactic theory.
2)Have you ever thought that we as a nation might need to support some nations that can help us? Support does not mean that we condone their actions.
3) My faveorite....What kind of war strategy do you prefer? You want to save travel expenses and fight wars here at home? Anyone that cares for this country had rather fight on foreign soil. Break someone elses stuff.
4)The global community is a part in this war. The charges of torture and detaining prisoners has not been proven. How do you know who is the enemy when the enemy is to cowardly to put on a uniform? Even if there has been torture, how many planes have chashed into buildings full of innocent people? If we are torturing the enemy, I say, do it some more! I want the world to know that this great country will kick your @ss if you dare us.
5) This is not the first administration to face these problems. It is, however, the first to face so many blatently false accusations... You do know that the charges against Delay are that he did what the law allowed in respect to campaign finances?
Lying under oath and witness intimadation are not.. BTW, Clinton did those things.
6)Do you think Bush is sitting in Washington saying to hold up on aid to your area? How fast would be fast enuff for you?
7)No bid contracts have been the law way before Bush was elected. Do your research, please. Bush has no interests in any energy companies. If he does, they are in blind trusts. Something some of your Dems don't play by those rules.
In fact, it has been proven that in emergency situations, 'No Bid' is the most effective way to do things. You think repair to your area are slow now, you can bet less than half of what is done if bids had be let. There is usually a 30 day bid "season", then the bids have to be approved, then the winning company has to get things lined up to start the job....I hope you see where this is headed...
8)That is rediculous!!! You think you deserve as many vacations as the leader of the free world???? If you do, then run for the job. I seriously doubt that your job is as stressful.
9) It is proven time and again that tax cuts stimulate the economy. The rich deserve bigger tax cuts, they pay more in taxes. (They get more vacations than you, as well).If the "less fortunate" don't like their programs cut, they need to get jobs to become some of the 'fortunate'. How long do you think welfare should last? How much do you think the payoff should be?
10) Where do you get that he has used religion to further his agenda???? Are you still free to worship as you choose or choose not to? If someone is sitting outside your door taking you to church every Sunday, blink your eyes in Morse code so we can get you help. As for the military use, I am proud that his agenda is democracy.

Your retorts to my points might as well have been "nu uh!" Practically all of your replies were personal opinions (some of which are based on bad information).

OHHHH, I am sorry that I was unaware that I wasn't allowed an opinion... However, your accusations were also just your tiny opinion. However, I will not allow your dismisal of valid attempt at conversation disuade me. Any discussion is just the exchange of opinions. Sorry.



At least you didn't say "So's your mother...." :loser:

At least you didn't say "So's your mother...." :loser:

Haha... at least it hasn't come to that.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to insinuate that your opinion doesn't matter. I guess I expected a reply with refutes based more on hard evidence. Some of what I said was based on my opinion, but most of it is based on news stories, which is based on investigations and documented evidence. Not to say that you should believe everything you read/hear, but sometimes I think the news is more truthful than the government, but I know that no one is right every time.

8)That is rediculous!!! You think you deserve as many vacations as the leader of the free world???? If you do, then run for the job. I seriously doubt that your job is as stressful.


I wish I could take as many vacations as he has.

1 ) kyoto - dumb idea
2 ) you named 5 countries we should nuke
3 ) loved it - should do more of it
4 ) who cares ? - we are the only SUPERPOWER
5 ) like its was different under the Dems
6 ) if you live long enough by the water , at sometime you will live in the water
7 ) few can do the job
8 ) his job is much harder ( and the President knows about the aliens )
9 ) your income , probably makes you listed as rich
10 ) Gee...hasn't every power since day one
11 ) i agree , " off with the top of your head "
....what are you ; French or something ?

1 ) kyoto - dumb idea
2 ) you named 5 countries we should nuke
3 ) loved it - should do more of it
4 ) who cares ? - we are the only SUPERPOWER
5 ) like its was different under the Dems
6 ) if you live long enough by the water , at sometime you will live in the water
7 ) few can do the job
8 ) his job is much harder ( and the President knows about the aliens )
9 ) your income , probably makes you listed as rich
10 ) Gee...hasn't every power since day one
11 ) i agree , " off with the top of your head "
....what are you ; French or something ?

Why yes, I am French... and German and Irish.

At least you didn't say "So's your mother...." :loser:

Haha... at least it hasn't come to that.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to insinuate that your opinion doesn't matter. I guess I expected a reply with refutes based more on hard evidence. Some of what I said was based on my opinion, but most of it is based on news stories, which is based on investigations and documented evidence. Not to say that you should believe everything you read/hear, but sometimes I think the news is more truthful than the government, but I know that no one is right every time.

All is well.... I don't trust the news, not Fox, not CNN, not the Birmingham News. They all have gotten to where they report agendas, not happenings. I wish I had hard evidence like you were expecting, but my opinion will have to be the only ammunition I can fight with....

I never trust any story that has the phrase "unnamed source". I hope you don't either....

In terms of the President, I think everything has already been said on the major media streams. I really doubt anybody is really going to change their mind, especially on an internet forum. . . on SCIONLIFE.

This topic just begs for name calling and bad emotions, since everyone wants to defend their positions, without ever really being open minded. And even if you wanted to be open minded, there are hardly ever any facts listed, with verifiable sources. IMO, this is a bad place for information. . . not always a bad source, but when it comes to big opinionated issues like THE PRESIDENT, it's hard to accomplish anything.

"uh...eh..uuhh...get dem terrorists! eh! yeah."

It seems like some people hold the President to a higher standard than they would hold themselves. He's damn sure not perfect or even great in my opinion, but i'm curious as to who would be your IDEAL President if you got to appoint one and why?

Me. . . because it's me. . . but seriously, I bet that's the first thought that comes to a lot of you out there.

giulliani for president!!!

or at least let me hit the red button, please

I was always curious as to what Bob Dole would have done.