Hi,

Meet the Brazilian Obvio! 828, to be available in the US & Canada late 2006:
http://www.obvio.ind.br/obviona/828.htm

The catch: 1300lbs & 170 HP, for 0-100 in 5.3 seconds. It's 2/3 the size of a Mz3 Hatch, and pricing starts at $14K.

In the looks department I'm about to go get a doctor check my eyesore... but surely some people will find it cool

http://www.obvio.ind.br/Novo_Site/produtos/imagens/828_site2.jpg
http://www.obvio.ind.br/Novo_Site/produtos/imagens/HPIM0875.jpg
http://www.obvio.ind.br/Novo_Site/produtos/imagens/DSC05044.jpg
http://www.obvio.ind.br/Novo_Site/produtos/imagens/interior.jpg
http://www.obvio.ind.br/Novo_Site/produtos/imagens/open_door.jpg
http://www.obvio.ind.br/Novo_Site/produtos/imagens/interior_2_2.jpg
http://www.obvio.ind.br/obviona/iMobile%20screen.jpg
http://www.obvio.ind.br/Novo_Site/produtos/imagens/828_all.jpg


And my FAVORITE picture (for obvious reasons):
http://www.obvio.ind.br/obviona/Obvio%20!%20828-2%20parked.JPG

my old porsche 924 called....it wants its wheels back.
http://www.autoatlanta.com/model/924catalog/924-1-0404.jpg

ULGY, why do they want to look like its some childs toy car???

0-60 in 5.3.......that'd be fun to drive, but wow...look at it, haha

The "Bratz" called, they want their car back.

http://www.criminologia.it/immagini_giorno/bratz%20copia.jpg

i hope it wont come out in the color

I will personally HUNT DOWN AND KILL anyone who buys one of those hideously ugly contraptions....j/k ;( I have to go barf now....

i would hate for somebody to run into me if i was ever driving one of those. i wonder if they will be like the magically exploding pintos?

^^^Agreed. I don't think that thing would pass any crash tests.

0-60 in 5.3.......that'd be fun to drive, but wow...look at it, haha
is that 0-100 or 0-60? 100kph? :lalala:

I don't know why this is, but I kind of like it.

it looks like my geo metro....i would look into getting it (to replace the geo.)

Tritec motor 1.6 Liters with 115Hp´s "LOW CONSUMPTION" - of 12.5 Km/Liter (29.40 MPG) in urban circuit and 17,3 Km/Liter (40.69 MPG) in highways - and "HIGH-POWER" 170 and 250 HP´s - with ZF´s CVT transmission

250 hp!!!!


for safety...

Obvio !´s vehicles will shall conform to or exceed the safety standards laid down by the US D.O.T. Requirements for the US and Canada, the European Community Norms 2005 and the Asian countries standards.

Carputer too...



makes me just want one for the oddity factor.

Why in the world would you buy that when you could get a motorcycle. . . at that point, there isn't much of a difference in safety. . .

. . . the only advantage would be weather protection. You would have significantly worse acceleration, speed, stability, and handling than a motorcycle.

I bet that would OWN all on the AutoX track.

I dunno....with a better paint job, different hood and different wheels,
it might look pretty cool. Heck, it's already got Lambo doors! :P

Why in the world would you buy that when you could get a motorcycle. . . at that point, there isn't much of a difference in safety. . .

. . . the only advantage would be weather protection. You would have significantly worse acceleration, speed, stability, and handling than a motorcycle.
already have the motorcycle...motorcycle does not have a carputer...
motorcycle will do worse in accident.
motorcycle can't seat three...
motorcycle doesn't look as different as this.

I bet that would OWN all on the AutoX track.

I'd imagine so, the mini does and this car looks to be a lot smaller than a mini. If they do release it to the states, i might buy one. Its very interesting.

Wouldn't take much at all for this car to be extremely fast, and handle extremely well.

Cya

I bet that would OWN all on the AutoX track.

I'd imagine so, the mini does and this car looks to be a lot smaller than a mini. If they do release it to the states, i might buy one. Its very interesting.

Wouldn't take much at all for this car to be extremely fast, and handle extremely well.

Cya

Actually, i think i seriously might buy one. After looking into it, i think its really freaking cool. Yeah, if the paint comes in that scheme only it will need a new paint job ASAP. But think about it, you could do any paint job you want for under $1,000, including stripping the old, paint the new and then 2-3 coats of clear. I mean seriously. :clap: The 012 looks sick but they expect prices to be $28,000, i wonder what car company will put it out. Or if they will bring a new car company to america to sell it. Who knows, its got my attention.

Think about it like this: New paint, some better rims, or rims in general, lowered, i/h/e, thats all you need on the "high performance" models to really do some damange on the autox, and be a very, very fun daily.

Small cars are awesome, thats why i bought the box mainly.

Cya

Id buy one just so I can go roast some kids w/ that thing lol...they would be like, I just got beat by a matchbox car lol

Id buy one just so I can go roast some kids w/ that thing lol...they would be like, I just got beat by a matchbox car lol

:rofl: :rofl: yeah, seriously. I think im going to buy this car, it has so much potiental. It really does. If you really look at the car aside from the paint job, the body lines look well i think.

Its not a bad looking car, just needs one paint color, i could see it looking great with a nice black or blue.

Cya

I would rock the hell out of that thing. It has these nifty Eliptical Safety Cell things for safety. If that thing comes out for 14k car I'll be one of the first to buy it.

Id say that car in all black with some wheels and a little drop would look sexy!! Id drive one but hey Im a fan of Mini's so this is right up my alley...


their other car looks alot nicer

http://www.obvio.ind.br/Novo_Site/produtos/imagens/012_lateral2.jpg

Damn...I want one. (The 828, the 012 is twice as much)

Okay, that totally reminds me of a Smart. Anybody ever seen those? They are all over the place in Europe, and I was surprised how much I liked them after seeing them zip in and out of traffic.

I have a pic of me next to one in Paris I will post if I can dig it up. I think its actually SMALLER than this car.

Okay, that totally reminds me of a Smart. Anybody ever seen those? They are all over the place in Europe, and I was surprised how much I liked them after seeing them zip in and out of traffic.

I have a pic of me next to one in Paris I will post if I can dig it up. I think its actually SMALLER than this car.

Yeah, i'm also a fan of smart, light weight and small is where its at.

Cya

heh thats a neat car....maybe not to buy...but i would ask a friend to let me drive it lol

if it wasnt so bright the misses would be in one! although the 0-100 in 5.3 is not something she needs

Here we go. The Smart is on the far left and another on the far right... I dont hink I have a shot of the front though.. Their roadster is pretty cool.

http://www.heartofanempire.com/images/IMG_0800.jpg

Hey, just what I have been wanting... Lambo doors and a bench seat!!!!

it needs to have a chopped top with a big as root style blower screaming out of the hood 8)

haha, dang that sh**s small

It's a good thing the windows are tinted... I wouldn't want anyone to see me in that ugly POS....

Smart cars are cool, I wish they would relase them to the us market, then I would go buy the little roadster they have

Did you read th report of the SMART car in Car and Driver a few months back? They drove it thru the badlands of OK and the wind about whipped it....

Smart cars are cool, I wish they would relase them to the us market, then I would go buy the little roadster they have

They're totally cool. When one (regular Smart as seen in the photo) blew past me on the Autobahn like it was nothin, I was sold! You can park them ANYWHERE.

Of course in America you would gat backed over and totalled when you parked across from the first soccer mom in a Suburban at the local Target. :P

WOW! I just spent 30 minutes reading their website and that's the craziest damn thing I've seen since the Yugo.

IF this actually makes it to the US then yes, these will own at AutoX and if they drop the price on the little one to $11K and the "bigger" one at LEAST below $25K then they will sell like wildfire.

I just want to drive one of these mini rocketships with that big motor.

Thanks for the info.

-Alex

rear driven with mid mounted engine.

Internal and external panels of the bodyshell in “ABS/PMMA” a special high-tech plastic -- a twin-sheet vacuum thermoformed that dispense painting with five layers.


And, I can't find a quick quote, but the whole thing is one structure, so I think if you break the plastic fender, you buy a new car (slight exageration for dramatic effect).

I'm ordering one.


This motor is used in the BMW Mini built in England, the DaimlerChrysler Neon, built in USA and the PT Cruiser built in Mexico.


Uh.. maybe not

dawm and i thoghtmy xb was diferent :rofl: :rofl:

http://www.evisionsphoto.com/gallery/albums/san_jose/Micro_Machines.sized.jpg

Smaller and more efficient than the xA...more unique than the xB...more power than the tC...sounds good to mE.

^^^true that. i think its the best of all worlds

Smaller and more efficient than the xA...more unique than the xB...more power than the tC...sounds good to mE.

and get some young kid in a tC sayin i just got smoked by this car too how can i make my car go faster s/c or t/c

:rofl:

lol this is a crazy looking car.. i would definitely go to the autoshow this january to check it out.

Im getting one. Seriously!

I'm with you man. The ChumpBus is gone in a year. That car is awesome. The more I read the more I am falling in love. Sure the xB has awesome style and good fuel economy...but the 828 has power, RWD, mid engine, Carputer, iMobile, scissor doors, CVT, it's nuts!

OMG! It reminds me of the old Yugos! Okay, yes, I'm dating myself. The Yugos were these tiny cars from Yugoslavia - a country that no longer exhists - and they sold for about $3,000 in the 1980s. I haven't seen one of those in years...

http://www.inet.hr/~bpauric/enovi.htm

OMG! It reminds me of the old Yugos! Okay, yes, I'm dating myself. The Yugos were these tiny cars from Yugoslavia - a country that no longer exhists - and they sold for about $3,000 in the 1980s. I haven't seen one of those in years...

http://www.inet.hr/~bpauric/enovi.htm

Press release Sept. 2005.
http://www.zapworld.com/about/news/news_obvio.asp

You have to buy them from ZapWorld dealer. Is ZapWorld governed like a Pyramid Scheme? I wonder what the resale value would be after you drive off the lot.

I'm buying one, its offical. Hopefully will be 1st out of a 1,000 to get the gift pack.

This car is freaking amazing, my money going into the xb stops now. Credit will be competely down and ready to work on the 828! I will be getting the 170hp model for sure. This car is going to be really fun to drive, i can see it already. Quite fast too.

I've always loved the light weights, and a fan of smart cars.

Cya

No thank you!

I'm buying one, its offical. Hopefully will be 1st out of a 1,000 to get the gift pack.

This car is freaking amazing, my money going into the xb stops now. Credit will be competely down and ready to work on the 828! I will be getting the 170hp model for sure. This car is going to be really fun to drive, i can see it already. Quite fast too.

I've always loved the light weights, and a fan of smart cars.

Cya

look at the 1st gen neons you can pick on up for like 1300 dollars or less

I'm buying one, its offical. Hopefully will be 1st out of a 1,000 to get the gift pack.

This car is freaking amazing, my money going into the xb stops now. Credit will be competely down and ready to work on the 828! I will be getting the 170hp model for sure. This car is going to be really fun to drive, i can see it already. Quite fast too.

I've always loved the light weights, and a fan of smart cars.

Cya

look at the 1st gen neons you can pick on up for like 1300 dollars or less

I despise neons and dodge in general. Plus, i'd rather get something like the 828 vs. a neon/crx/del sol or whatever else.

Cya

i say bring it on ...

i love to see the smart fortwo too. they are now on sale north of the border. i wish mercedes would also bring in the a-class.

I can't believe they are talking about putting a 250hp engine in one...that's nuts. It's weight/horsepower ratio would be close to a ZO6's.

I checked out the Tritec Motors Website:

http://www.tritecmotors.com.br/english/motors/16L.htm

The 1.6 liter engines are 114 HP (NA) and 163 HP (SC). That is a pretty huge difference for supercharging it. I wonder what the figures will be for the 170 and 250 hp engines they are talking of...displacement? Fuel economy?

Mini Bb

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c14/TEASER2/MiniBb04.jpg
:)

I should get commission for showing you guys (that wanna buy one) this car, hahaha, yeah, i'd be curiosu to see how one looked in black, with nice rims and lowered an inch or two..

I think this is more along the lines of what TEASER wanted to do...if not, I have thought this would be cool...until I edited it and saw it. Hahaha...xB coupe, anyone?
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/6943/xbcoupe5bd.jpg

I like the 828t!!!

i doubt id like to pick my g\f up in one

bench seat = love makin bench :rofl: no need for a back seat now :wink:

bench seat = love makin bench :rofl: no need for a back seat now :wink:

Yeah seriously..

Besides, a nice dark blue color, some work rims, lower it about an 1'' (from the pictures, thats all it really needs), maybe do i/h/e and a few other small things and bam, what girl wouldn't want to ride in it? 170hp is fast for 1,300lbs, 250hp would be ridiculously fast. 115hp would be quick, but i'd shoot for the 170hp model. 250hp, would probably scare me a little bit for a daily.

Cya

If it were me, I'd hope it wasn't a sturdy car.. if I were in a wreck, I'd want to be killed so I wouldn't hear the rescue workes laughing....

I don't know why this is, but I kind of like it.


awww... me too! i think its cute!

My fiance wants one of these things. They look funny at first, but once you take a good hard look at it...it still looks funny, but more practical. I definately wouldn't want it as a main car, but it would be a good little toy to play around with on the weekends (it even looks like a toy). I hope they show up in the US.

I just wish the steering wheel was in the center! (Passenger on either side.) Then the ladies couldn't get away from you!

I just wish the steering wheel was in the center! (Passenger on either side.) Then the ladies couldn't get away from you!

That's a problem for you now?

If it were me, I'd hope it wasn't a sturdy car.. if I were in a wreck, I'd want to be killed so I wouldn't hear the rescue workes laughing....

These cars as small as they are, are very safe. You wouldn't be killed so long as it wasn't a semi or something huge like that.

Also, these cars are almost 100% supposed to hit US and Canada ground next year, they just have to pass our standards with crash ratings. Which they should, the company expects very high results.

It's a car i'm definitely going to buy once they do come in, next year.

Cya

I like it. It does remind me of the Smart car, which are way cool, We saw lots of them in Italy during the summer, If mercedes won't hurry up and release the smart in the u.s., they will probably realize their mistake after these come out!

I like it. It does remind me of the Smart car, which are way cool, We saw lots of them in Italy during the summer, If mercedes won't hurry up and release the smart in the u.s., they will probably realize their mistake after these come out!

Actually, majority of americans don't want to go smaller, they go bigger. Everything has to be bigger to fit needs of general america. These smart cars, and the 828/012, will only appeal to those wanting a practical city car for the most part. Which sounds like a lot of people, but its really not.

Don't get me wrong, i have a feeling these will sell very well. But, general America isn't ready for Smart to take over. Not quite, we are getting there though. I've been ready. :P

Cya

It looks like Shrek's disfigured cousin

It looks like Shrek's disfigured cousin

Just remember that the xb wasn't wide-accepted at first, took people a while to get used to the car and realize what it can do.

This car is basically another xb in that sense. You either hate it or love it.

Cya

I want to see Shaq riding "ON" to one of this.
I heard someone is already planning on doing a Limo out of this. The stretch will end up the length of an xB :rofl:

I just wish the steering wheel was in the center! (Passenger on either side.) Then the ladies couldn't get away from you!

That's a problem for you now?

LOL dude hes a pimp, he doesnt have any problems with them trying to get away. he just wants them closer! one on each side! lol hey i would like the same option

That's a problem for you now?

Hahaha...naw. I just thought it'd be funny to say that. Really, I'm just a sucker for symmetry and want a centered steering wheel.

LOL dude hes a pimp, he doesnt have any problems with them trying to get away. he just wants them closer! one on each side! lol hey i would like the same option

Hah! Ryan's got my back!

Id say that car in all black with some wheels and a little drop would look sexy!! Id drive one but hey Im a fan of Mini's so this is right up my alley...


their other car looks alot nicer

http://www.obvio.ind.br/Novo_Site/produtos/imagens/012_lateral2.jpg

Miiiine????

http://www.geekroar.com/film/archives/nemo_gulls_mine-thumb2.jpg

I'd rather rock the 828.

For $28,000 base price, i can think of better cars to buy vs. the 012.

For $14,000 base price, the 828 is perfect. Light weight, fast with 170hp and 250hp models. Functional and practical for city driving, stylish, and reliable. With the Tritech motor, its probably more reliable than our 1nz is.

Cya

It just doesn't suit my needs as far as cars go. and its pretty ugly. oh but the available power. wish xb's had those #s available.

i like'em there not the nicest lookin cars put i bet they tear the sh!t out of a scion in a race LOL

i like'em there not the nicest lookin cars put i bet they tear the sh!t out of a scion in a race LOL

the 170hp and 250hp models would beat a lot of cars in any kind of race except drift. Power to weight owns.

Cya

ummmm im not sure they may be a pretty good drift car, cosidering they are still RWD. they have an awesome power to weight ratio.

The only good thing brazil produces is airplanes and lots of electricity from mega large dams. EMBRAER makes some really nice planes and if you ever flew a short commuter hop on a major airline, chances are it was on an EMBRAER.

I didnt know brazil made cars too, although I would not want to get into a collision in that car.

The only good thing brazil produces is airplanes and lots of electricity from mega large dams. EMBRAER makes some really nice planes and if you ever flew a short commuter hop on a major airline, chances are it was on an EMBRAER.

I didnt know brazil made cars too, although I would not want to get into a collision in that car.

Its a steel frame, its designed for safety as well, not just for being mini.

Cya

The only good thing brazil produces is airplanes and lots of electricity from mega large dams. EMBRAER makes some really nice planes and if you ever flew a short commuter hop on a major airline, chances are it was on an EMBRAER.

I didnt know brazil made cars too, although I would not want to get into a collision in that car.

Its a steel frame, its designed for safety as well, not just for being mini.

Cya

I thought the Chinese cars had steel frames too. . . didn't one of their SUV's score a whopping 1 star in recent tests? Older American cars were almost completely steel and did poorly as well. Why? There is nothing to absorb the forces of impact. Rule of physics, the energy has to go somewhere, so either you bounce (producing MASSIVE and possibly fatal G loads) or the car crushes, absorbing the impact.

The goal is to design a rigid cabin that does not collapse (and the cabin, by design is the weakest part of the vehicle), and a soft exterior to absorb impact and lessen the forces.

I'm not saying that it's not going to be safe, but I'm not sure of Brazil has the engineering know how to properly design crush zones into a car.

It is a cool idea though, but I would personally prefer to own both a Scion and a motorcycle, if I really wanted cheap speed that badly. I would imagine the increased agility of a motorcycle (in the hands of a responsible rider) to be a larger safety margin than this particular car.

Brazil has been making cars for 30+ years, very few manufactures in Brazil but there are a few, one Obvio. The guy that owns the company has been racing these small, mini/smart cars for years. This is nothing new in the world of Brazil, its new to the US though. That much experience and knowledge in the racing department, and daily street car department tells me these cars will pass our DOT easy. Someone with that much experience in the field of automotive can't design a car without considering saftey, especially with the saftey nuts of today and racing background.

These cars are not that cheap, think about how small it is then think of the price. If the car was the size, of say the xb, then price would be in the $20k's i'm sure. The other, 012 is priced at $28,000. Thats hardly cheap, its basically built to be a mini-super car. The 828, is built to be a city daily with a fun race type feel, with lots of power. (power to weight is incredible for the price with the 170hp-250hp models)

So with that said, i have faith that Obvio will be in the states and it will be a safe car. Of course, i could be wrong and you could absolutely be right. Which, if you are, then its sad to say he learned nothing over the years hes been doing this.

Cya

Brazil has been making cars for 30+ years, very few manufactures in Brazil but there are a few, one Obvio. The guy that owns the company has been racing these small, mini/smart cars for years. This is nothing new in the world of Brazil, its new to the US though. That much experience and knowledge in the racing department, and daily street car department tells me these cars will pass our DOT easy. Someone with that much experience in the field of automotive can't design a car without considering saftey, especially with the saftey nuts of today and racing background.

These cars are not that cheap, think about how small it is then think of the price. If the car was the size, of say the xb, then price would be in the $20k's i'm sure. The other, 012 is priced at $28,000. Thats hardly cheap, its basically built to be a mini-super car. The 828, is built to be a city daily with a fun race type feel, with lots of power. (power to weight is incredible for the price with the 170hp-250hp models)

So with that said, i have faith that Obvio will be in the states and it will be a safe car. Of course, i could be wrong and you could absolutely be right. Which, if you are, then its sad to say he learned nothing over the years hes been doing this.

Cya

Good information to know, and I wasn't aware of any of it. Most of what you say is speculative, as I'm sure you know, but you seem to have good reason for believing so. I guess I'll have to reserve judgement for the real thing.

I'm not quite sure which model is the production version. The image with the carputer, lambo doors, and the body kit looks like a hopped up modified version. . . is it the standard model or what? And the regular looking model looks to exhibit much larger tolerances in body panel fittiment.

But after reading up a bit, it doesn't look that bad. I would be interested in seeing one.

Well, i believe the one with lambo style doors is show, i could be wrong but i believe so.

If you go to the 1st page of the thread, the ones with the pictures of the 828 by the water and stuff, thats the current 828 and the doors open regularly.

Most of what i say is mixed between fact and logic opinion. Obviously, no one in the states knows for sure on every little detail till we actually get the 828 and 012. But, yeah.

Cya

Bump!

Haha, that little car is pretty goofy looking, yet oddly appealing. While I don't think I'd own one...sounds like it would be fun to drive!

my old porsche 924 called....it wants its wheels back.
http://www.autoatlanta.com/model/924catalog/924-1-0404.jpg

:clap: :rofl: :clap: :rofl: :clap: :rofl: :clap: :rofl: :clap: :rofl:
:clap: :rofl: :clap: :rofl: :clap: :rofl: :clap: :rofl: :clap: :rofl:

I think the idea is....

if you're in a city... traffic isn't typically going to go 50+ mph, so it might be "safe enough" for most types of crashes. Hopefully, if you purchase one, it won't see much interstate use, where it is probably the "most dangerous" place to operate it.

However, get in an accident with this thing, and you're screwed. Period. Power/weight might be nice, but in an accident, its weight vs. weight, and anything the size of an expedition would tear right through that.

The only good thing brazil produces is airplanes and lots of electricity from mega large dams. EMBRAER makes some really nice planes and if you ever flew a short commuter hop on a major airline, chances are it was on an EMBRAER.

I didnt know brazil made cars too, although I would not want to get into a collision in that car.
brazil also makes good women. brazilian girls are hot!!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I actually like the color of the car, the green color that is. The interior is interesting, not sure if I like that or not, but the last picture where it was parked against the curb is just crazy. That car is way too small.

Wow, I forgot how big this thread of mine got

I know this post died a year and a half ago, but time to resurrect it!

The initial release date was set for 06, that was tentative. Now that more testing, etc, has been done, this is set now to be released by ZAP in the us in late 2008/early 2009, what do you guys think, Sink or Swim?


So check this out, here is a video of the actual car being test driven in a parking lot in miami

http://www.obvio.ind.br/Novo_Site/produtos/Obvio%20!%20828.wmv

Here is a 3D interior thing of it as well

http://www.zapworld.com/files/obvio-828/obvio-828.mov

pretty crazy, very interesting, what are your thoughts? :-)[/img]

Where's the rest of it?

(BTW, if a Scion owner asks that question, you have a small car)

Where's the rest of it?

(BTW, if a Scion owner asks that question, you have a small car)

LOL that is true indeed

now that i changed my mind from my first post on this thread 2 years ago i like it

lmao, was showing my aunt the video and she said this car is amazing, because it clearly identifies dummies and makes it easy to kill them all in one.

It's definately different........lol

it would never be made... but yeah, its got alot of good stuff on it! execpt this....

that weird thing < HUMMER (any, but pref. H1)


lol OWNEDZ!

Get hit once and die.

you really think so? i'll bet you could drive under anything. you would just have to avoid tires.

It's frame is made of steel, like alot of aircraft cabins, it'll be pretty safe actually

most cars have a steel frame... i don't see how a smaller steel frame is safer than a larger steel frame. and a smaller frame would have to be more rigid. less energy can be absorbed by the smaller frame. that translates to higher forces acting on your body.

Keep in mind, these cars are meant to be a small, compact city driver with a sporty kind of mindset. All it takes is a quick look at the weight/power ratio and 2 seconds to do the math you would find that this car would blow the doors off nearly any car in town. Its supposed to be a really small and economical version of a Lotus, not a passenger car. Its also really safe because of that monocoque shell so no it wont get smashed up by SUV's and big cars

smashing is what absorbs impact. otherwise it is just transfered to your body. the longer time you spend smashing up the car the less force exerted on your body. so, if the car lasts against an SUV, you would be frappe'd on the interior. just hose off the inside and the car is good as new... and there's your perfect safety record.... after all, who could complain if they ever wrecked it?

and before, i said a smaller frame would have to be more rigid.... i meant, the frame would be inherently more rigid, since it is smaller.