I'm interested in the DC headers but have had some mixed reviews about adding headers to the xb in general.
Is there a thread already discussing this I missed?
If not could I get some opinions, especially from any owners of an installed DC exhaust.

well i can tell you that just bolting on a header to any car will not give you results to gawk over.... ecspecially on a 1.5l engine....
save your money up to buy a super or turbo charger kit.... if you can save 350 in 1 mon. just wait ten times longer for 3500 you wont regret turboing a engine that has been driven a little(break-in period)

I'm interested in the DC headers but have had some mixed reviews about adding headers to the xb in general.
Is there a thread already discussing this I missed?
If not could I get some opinions, especially from any owners of an installed DC exhaust.

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3251
Product review and opinions.

Thanks. Just what I was lookin for.

Thanks. Just what I was lookin for.

no problem, we got your back. :D

im running the headers...very much worth the money.....im gonna end up supercharging this thing so headers were a must

If you s/c then you will really want the headers, otherwise you are restricting the flow from the s/c

I am going to get that thing too, I have a manifold back system and I know that will open up the power even more! Rodney_Ray has the hedder and my manifold back system too and it feels great! :D

sorry, i don't mean to jump in on your post here, but i want to ask something. i know nothing about cars and i was wondering if headers improves low or high end power? and does anyone have dyno gains for any of the headers for the xb?

sorry, i don't mean to jump in on your post here, but i want to ask something. i know nothing about cars and i was wondering if headers improves low or high end power? and does anyone have dyno gains for any of the headers for the xb?

It will give more up high. Anything that frees up backpressure will result in more up top than down low. Typically the only way to increase low end power is with more torque down low. To do that usually would require forced induction. A cam can also do it if cut properly.

Myths!!! Headers do increase torque and HP accross the board-as long as they are designed correctly with the correct size primary tubes and collectors. The available headers for Scions are the pits but it's all you can get until Weapon R gets their new design on the market. It's better but not optimal.

Use the search for a lot of discussion on headers.

ken

Ken,
thanks for the tips. do you have any more info on the weapon R headers? website? stats? release date estimate?

And I'm sorry but I have to comment on your sig: 'Real hot rodders don't pay someone to modify their car for them. If you don't know how to do something... LEARN!!'
...its all about how you use your time. getting my phd in genetics doesn't give me much time to learn about car mechanics...but that don't mean i'm not gonna have my own hotrod!
..i'll leave the car customization to talented guys like yourself...and just leave me to geneticly engineering your food and children! (but we both can still have some sick ___ rides)

Myths!!! Headers do increase torque and HP accross the board-as long as they are designed correctly with the correct size primary tubes and collectors. The available headers for Scions are the pits but it's all you can get until Weapon R gets their new design on the market. It's better but not optimal.

Use the search for a lot of discussion on headers.

ken


LOL. And these headers from Weapon R have been dyno tested side by side with the others? Must of been to make such a bold statement. The hp gains we are seeing from the current available headers are right in line for any model of car. We are seeing about a 5% gain with them. That is the same I've seen when adding them to 240hp cars, 330 hp cars and 405 hp cars.

Stylis..I saw you warn an auto tranny driver that one of your exhaust could be louder than on a manny, do you have a sound clip of this. Also, with the combination of headers and exhaust (on a autoBox to be specific) would that be deafening :sad: and what about CARB/smog (with just your exhaust and with header/exhaust?) is that ever an issue?

Al.Truistic
aB

I am going to get that thing too, I have a manifold back system and I know that will open up the power even more! Rodney_Ray has the hedder and my manifold back system too and it feels great! :D

Stylis..I saw you warn an auto tranny driver that one of your exhaust could be louder than on a manny, do you have a sound clip of this. Also, with the combination of headers and exhaust (on a autoBox to be specific) would that be deafening :sad: and what about CARB/smog (with just your exhaust and with header/exhaust?) is that ever an issue?

Al.Truistic
aB

I am going to get that thing too, I have a manifold back system and I know that will open up the power even more! Rodney_Ray has the hedder and my manifold back system too and it feels great! :D

The automatic scions are just loud on the freeway (can't hear the stereo loud! :shock: ) with the Precisionmuffler.com Axle back. But not to worry I am in the works now, to have another axle back for automatic scions and still have it so you won't scrap it when you lower your car.

As for smog, having an axle back or exhaust system is not an issue for smog. As long as the right pieces are there for the smog. Catalytic converter, resinator, muffler, tailpipe. And the hedder is another story, there is supposed to be a CARB number on the hedder, but if you can just put the original heat sheild back on , hopfully the smog guy won't look back there to see if its a hedder. 8)

I don't believe the Weapon R header has been tested yet. Knowing more than just a little bit about header design I would bet it will beat the DC or the ELprototype headers easily and I don't gamble!

The primaries are longer (but still too short) and it uses a better (but not the best) collector design. The other 2 are made to bolt on easily in the stock location, which they do quite well. The Weapon R header is much more involved to fit in due to the longer tubes (which bring the RPM band down to where it can be used). DC and EL have '70s collectors and VERY short primary tubes (necessary to fit in the confined space). They are so short it would take a 9500prm engine to use that length effectively. The Weapon R header is not the BEST design, just better than the other 2.

The best solution would be a complete custom header/exhaust from head to bumper with a header designed for the RPM band, camshaft, port size, valve size, and any other mods done to the engine. NO MFG has taken any of this into account yet. I spoke with DC himself, they just whipped up a header that fit. He didn't even measure the port dia.!!

I have a design in mind but my wife still won't let me take the xA apart..... someday....

ken

On a few echo installs, guys found that just the headers resulted in a slight loss of torque, with an increase of hp in the upper revs.

This is all subjective though, the cars weren't dyno'd.

Someone mentioned cams.. I wonder if we'll see any performance cams come out. Might be tough to do consider the vvt-i.

At any rate, from what I've read and heard, upgrading the entire intake/exhaust system is the best possible way to go. Might take a bit longer to save up the cash for it all though.

From what i saw of the weapon r header i looks very much like the header they got in trouble with Hy-Tech over.they copied a header for a honda product . It was on Honda-T
Hy-Tech is a Cart and Formula one builder as well as exotic euro cars that start
with the letter F, he also does headers for honda's and acura's. And as far as how a header willhelp Ken is quite correct.The weapon r header is equal length this should help out over the whole power band but only a dyno will tell. Anybody with a mig or tig can make a header but how you make it is all that counts

I don't believe the Weapon R header has been tested yet. Knowing more than just a little bit about header design I would bet it will beat the DC or the ELprototype headers easily and I don't gamble!

The primaries are longer (but still too short) and it uses a better (but not the best) collector design. The other 2 are made to bolt on easily in the stock location, which they do quite well. The Weapon R header is much more involved to fit in due to the longer tubes (which bring the RPM band down to where it can be used). DC and EL have '70s collectors and VERY short primary tubes (necessary to fit in the confined space). They are so short it would take a 9500prm engine to use that length effectively. The Weapon R header is not the BEST design, just better than the other 2.

The best solution would be a complete custom header/exhaust from head to bumper with a header designed for the RPM band, camshaft, port size, valve size, and any other mods done to the engine. NO MFG has taken any of this into account yet. I spoke with DC himself, they just whipped up a header that fit. He didn't even measure the port dia.!!

I have a design in mind but my wife still won't let me take the xA apart..... someday....

ken

Are you saying that weapon R is gonna have a better hedder?? :? How is that possible? There is limited space as is and I know that everyone wants something that can bolt on with no problems, so I can't understanf how to design the hedder any different. :?

Search for the post with pics of the Weapon R prototype. It bends up before it goes down to the collector making the primaries longer, that's why it's more trouble to install but it will be the best production header available.

I may have to buy a second xA just so I can take it apart and modify it......

ken

Search for the post with pics of the Weapon R prototype. It bends up before it goes down to the collector making the primaries longer, that's why it's more trouble to install but it will be the best production header available.

I may have to buy a second xA just so I can take it apart and modify it......

ken
link?(I'm lazy and your supposed to have pics anyway :lol: ) But then that means its gonna be hard to install the heat shield to throw off the smog people, and then on top of that, there is no carb number? :shock:

I don't believe DC or EL headers have CARB certification yet, I'm sure Weapon R doesn't either.

I have looked into what that certification involves and it's not really all that difficult-just takes time for the govt. paperwork BS to process.

ken

Search for the post with pics of the Weapon R prototype. It bends up before it goes down to the collector making the primaries longer, that's why it's more trouble to install but it will be the best production header available.

I may have to buy a second xA just so I can take it apart and modify it......

ken

More bends = reduced flow capabilities

Yes, it can but the increased length and better collector design more than makes up for it, especially on a stock (intakes and cat back exhaust don't really count) engines.

ken

Yes, it can but the increased length and better collector design more than makes up for it, especially on a stock (intakes and cat back exhaust don't really count) engines.

ken

wheres the pic? Also wouldn't more bends cause more heat in that area?

I'll bet that itmakes just has much as the other two out there +/- 2hp which in the big scheme of things make all 3 equal in performance.

Search this forum for "Weapon R Xb race header", Mar 16th. Link to pics is in the first post. Is it a great header? NO! Is it better than DC and EL? YES!

More bends do not create or keep heat in an area but they are closer to the fire wall on this header. The header will be made of stainless which conducts heat 200 times less than uncoated mild steel-about even with the ceramic coated mild steel headers. So if the stainless was ceramic coated it would be even better but nobody bothers doing this.

What we really need is a completly new design-something like a 4-2-1 header with 28" long 1.5" dia primaries into merged collectors that outlet into 1 5/8" secondaries 12" long into a venturi merged collector with a 2.25" outlet. This header would move the cat back about 18" and require a complete custom exhaust. Good torque and hp boost from 3000rpm to factory redline= much more fun to drive. I'll build it for my xA if I can ever get my wife an daughters to stop driving the wheels of it.....

ken

This header would move the cat back about 18" and require a complete custom exhaust. Good torque and hp boost from 3000rpm to factory redline= much more fun to drive. I'll build it for my xA if I can ever get my wife an daughters to stop driving the wheels of it.....

ken

so this would be a custom hedder, for short races on a 1/4 mile run. Not something for everyday use, like a 69 camero with hooker hedders. Gotcha, more power, but you need a custom exhaust set-up. I just needed to know, because a lot of people like to install their own parts and now they know what needs to be done when they buy the hedder.

The header I discribed in my last paragraph would likely never be available to the public. People want a header that just bolts on easily with no hassle. The way Scion laid out our factory exhaust you can't get a really good header in place and bolt to the factory cat flange.

There is plenty of room under my xA for custom headers and exhaust, I assume the xB is very similar. Someone just needs to get off their butt and build a good, well thought out header based on science and modern experience/techniques instead of focusing on the convienence/cost factor. But then, the majority of Scion owners that post on these forums are on a tight budget or just plain cheap so an expensive high end header/exhaust system would have limited appeal and profit potential.....

ken

The header I discribed in my last paragraph would likely never be available to the public. People want a header that just bolts on easily with no hassle. The way Scion laid out our factory exhaust you can't get a really good header in place and bolt to the factory cat flange.

There is plenty of room under my xA for custom headers and exhaust, I assume the xB is very similar. Someone just needs to get off their butt and build a good, well thought out header based on science and modern experience/techniques instead of focusing on the convienence/cost factor. But then, the majority of Scion owners that post on these forums are on a tight budget or just plain cheap so an expensive high end header/exhaust system would have limited appeal and profit potential.....

ken

yeah people around here are on a budget, including me! :shock: As for custom hedders, I think that would only benifit the people with superchargers. And the xB has more room for hedders than the xA, I have seen both opening and thats why it costs more at my place. So more bends on a weopon R hedder may not be the way to go for the xA, there is barely enough room for the DC to come out.

Gabe, the axle is not all that loud,on a automatic, I went on trip to stateline and back and urn it in, preety mellow at 80 mph, go pasing gear it gets a little loud , but it sure rev up a lot faster and thottle response has improved. My muffler scrapes just a touch coming out the steep driveway, so I back in now. Then a gain, not many scion sit as low as I do. Bill

I got my E. L. Prototypes header installed friday at their shop and it makes a big difference all around. I didnt notice any loss on the low end my XB now now just pulls through the whole power band. The sound actually got lower instead of louder.

I got my E. L. Prototypes header installed friday at their shop and it makes a big difference all around. I didnt notice any loss on the low end my XB now now just pulls through the whole power band. The sound actually got lower instead of louder.

thinking of adding on an exhaust? :twisted: