this morning i was going to work on PCH as usual and me and this new BMW 325 (auto trans) were cruising along together. we pull up next to each other at a light and he starts asking me questions, the usual stuff. after he asks the price and who makes it, etc he asked if it was fast (like a 15,000 toyota is going to be fast) and just to be a jerk i said that it was faster than his new BMW. haha. he said ok, let's find out. so i was like sure, why not? i didn't rev or anything because this was just for fun, so when the light turned green, we both kind of took off. no tires spinning or anything.

well, to my suprise, i pulled a little ahead of him at first, and then after shifting to second gear, i was even farther ahead. he caught up a little at the end of second gear, but i shifted into 3rd and he fell back again. we only took our cars up to 60-70ish, even though it was a big open area, but that was enough for me to see that his 6 cylinder ultimate driving machine was not all that. i never got to talk to him again because there were no more red lights and eventually he turned off, but it's always fun to do stuff like that. it's so 'fast and the furious' (more than you can afford, pal).

my car is running the stock wheels and tires right now and i have a greddy catback exhaust and i'm running 91 octane. teddy said it would help, and it really does. i'm going to be taking my car to california dragway (speedway) this saturday i think, so if any of you guys want to see me take on some high performance cars and look like an idiot out there, there's your chance. i just want to do it for fun. i have nothing to prove, really.

in conclusion, i think the manual trans xB is faster than the automatic transmission. if someone disagrees, i would like to fun the cars side by side and find out.

haha cool 8)

Eric had a encounter very much like your with a civic ex auto about two nights ago
wasn't goning to post but now i have to. we left first light and i just took of normal
and pulled him at next light he's lookin at me a rev's im like great so as light changes
no hard launch just drop it and went thru first side buy side start to pull alittle and
when i shifted to second pull half a car length stayed that way and then it was over
. now i dont support steet racing [got rid of my civic for just that reason]
now can anyone explain how this is possable with 108hp this is not the first civic i
have pulled on? well anyway congrats eric

i don't support street racing either, but this is for research purposes. i need to know which cars i can beat so when people talk crap about my engine i can tell them that it's not actually that slow after all.

it's possible because of the VVT-i which can change cam timing to give more performance. but also because when you add certain aftermarket "performance" accessories, it can really slow your car down, since it has parts the car was not designed for, and the car's computer can actually detune it a little to keep it running safely. depends on the car though. also, automatic transmissions suck because you lose a lot of power inthe torque converter. and with a small HP car, it makes a big difference because you need all the power you can get.

Hey eric when does vvt-i kick in ? Next i think i might have to try some el parts
no wait thats not why i bought this for. On a differant note have you worked on
your air kits for other people to buy. I am very interested in this mod.

Thanks Eric
BILL

yeah, i'm working on the air thing right now. i just want to make sure all the brackets will hold up before i sell them to people. so far mine are working great.

You said you had a Greddy catback exhaust... did they already started making em, or is yours custom?

my friend had a greddy exhaust with a 3" pipe on the back, so we sawed it off, and welded a smaller pipe and cut up my stock muffler so it could bolt on to stock. i used wrx exhaust hooks and cusco hardened hangers, along with a flex pipe to make it easier to line everything up. if anyone needs a custom exhaust or anything else welded on their car, i have a friend that can do it. from aluminum to stainless to mild steel, anything can be TIG welded and it will be good quality welds. much better than a lot of "professional" welding jobs. send me a PM. we will not charge you a lot.

Hey eric when does vvt-i kick in ? Next i think i might have to try some el parts
no wait thats not why i bought this for. On a differant note have you worked on
your air kits for other people to buy. I am very interested in this mod.

Thanks Eric
BILL

I don't believe that VVT-i "kicks" kicks in like VTEC. It's a continuosly variable system. Also, because the lift doesn't change like VTEC or VVTL-i, you won't feel it kick in.

Also, to the person running 91 octane – save your money. Your ECU is calibrated to run 87 and running a higher octane can actually decease performance and fuel economy.

...now can anyone explain how this is possable with 108hp this is not the first civic i
have pulled on? well anyway congrats eric

I suspect that the gearing of the Scion has a lot to do with it. The final drive ratio is really high numerically. This is great out of the hole, but the downside is a lot more shifting and higher RPM at cruise.

George

Hey eric when does vvt-i kick in ? Next i think i might have to try some el parts
no wait thats not why i bought this for. On a differant note have you worked on
your air kits for other people to buy. I am very interested in this mod.

Thanks Eric
BILL

I don't believe that VVT-i "kicks" kicks in like VTEC. It's a continuosly variable system. Also, because the lift doesn't change like VTEC or VVTL-i, you won't feel it kick in.

Also, to the person running 91 octane – save your money. Your ECU is calibrated to run 87 and running a higher octane can actually decease performance and fuel economy.

you are right about vvt-i being continous. another guy said something about it kicking in the e.l. prototypes cai thread and that is just wrong. about vvtl-i though, it does kick in and you do feel it. i will be glad to give someone a ride in my matrix, so they know what it is like or if i know somone is expierenced enough they can drive my matrix. the lift kicks in about 6200 rpm.

Yes, but you have VVTL-i (I assume you have a Matrix XRS). That his the lift control (like VTEC in a Honda). And, yes, you can feel VVTL-i – I just test drove a Matrix XRS last week.

VVT-i = Echo, Corolla, Scion, RAV4 (and others I'd bet)
VVTL-i = Celica, Matrix

Also, a Civic weighs more than a Scion. A Civic EX coupe weighs 2,5XX lbs. A sedan weighs more than that.

Also, a Civic weighs more than a Scion. A Civic EX coupe weighs 2,5XX lbs. A sedan weighs more than that.

that's kind of pathetic. it has less interior room and weighs more with a similar sized engine. it costs more with the same features. don't get me wrong, civics are great, so if the scion is bigger, and weighs less to begin with, if you strip it out you could probably get it going pretty fast with the proper engine swap/mods. and don't give me that aerodynamic nonsense. the scion isn't as bad as it looks. and it isn't such a big issue in the 1/4 mile.

and don't give me that aerodynamic nonsense. the scion isn't as bad as it looks.

No offense, but are you kidding me? Not as bad as it looks? I do believe it is as bad as it looks. The xB is a slab-sided box – the drag coefficant of an xB is most likely much higher than a Civic and it would have an effect on 1/4 mile times. Not that there's anything wrong with the xB, but aerodynamic it ain't!

I doubt the xB will have to worry about being aerodynamic. I don't see one going over a 100 down a track and until that happens there is real no need to concentrate on the aero part of it.

exactly. you see that, sushiguy? aerodynamics are important but not in low speed applications. and for a car like the civic or xB that will rarely see 80mph in the 1/4 mile, it's not that critical. the faster the car goes, the more it becomes a factor, but i would think thinks like weight and gearing would make more of a difference at lower speeds. just my uneducated opinion.

Congrats Eric on beating the BMW! It fits under my theory...Its not necessarily about the horse power or the engine but the driver of the vehicle. If you are a good driver you will kick some arse!

good to know that it can beat a bmw that is what i have right now 8)

exactly. you see that, sushiguy? aerodynamics are important but not in low speed applications. and for a car like the civic or xB that will rarely see 80mph in the 1/4 mile, it's not that critical. the faster the car goes, the more it becomes a factor, but i would think thinks like weight and gearing would make more of a difference at lower speeds. just my uneducated opinion.

I still beg to differ. Have you ever held your hand out the window at 50 mph? Hold it flat, and there's a lot of resistance. Make it more level and it flows through the wind better. This is only at 60 mph and with a hand. Take the frontal area of an xB vs the frontal area of a Civic and you'd see that the xB has much more frontal area and a much higher drag coefficant. Even at drag racing speeds there would be a difference. You are correct – aerodynamics don't have much of an effect at lower speeds, but I'd bet that you could get an xB up to 80 at the end of the 1/4 mile and at that speed, you can bet that the xB's shape is playing a role in wind resistance. You can't argue with physics.

you're right, but it's still fun pretending like the xB is actually aerodynamic when in fact it is not. i think the underage girls riding in their mom's suburban put it nicely when they quickly shouted before rolling their window up, "nice toaster car!".

i got that spolier on the back you guys should look into it....j/k j/k j/k

Good job, I raced my old 68 Mustang thats putting out 350+ hp at least, (its been worked on for about 10 years) and I gave it a run for its money. I took the turns way quicker and kept up the whole time (sometimes in front) but we kept it under 80 just so we don't get too much attention.

Take the frontal area of an xB vs the frontal area of a Civic and you'd see that the xB has much more frontal area and a much higher drag coefficant. Even at drag racing speeds there would be a difference. You are correct – aerodynamics don't have much of an effect at lower speeds, but I'd bet that you could get an xB up to 80 at the end of the 1/4 mile and at that speed, you can bet that the xB's shape is playing a role in wind resistance. You can't argue with physics.

_I_ can! I teach physics! :)

The xb does have more frontal area than a Civic, but it also has a very good shape for a low coefficient of drag. The nose is nicely rounded, it has skirting, the windshield is a bit steep, but faired nicely into the sides and roof, and the rear is about as close to the ideal "square cutoff" as you will see on a conventional car. The xB probably has a bit more wind resistance than a Civic, but it is a matter of a few percent, not an order of magnitude.

Consider this: The VW bus has a lower drag coefficient than a VW beetle. That's how they managed to make it work with the same engine despite having so much more frontal area.

George

Good job, I raced my old 68 Mustang thats putting out 350+ hp at least, (its been worked on for about 10 years) and I gave it a run for its money. I took the turns way quicker and kept up the whole time (sometimes in front) but we kept it under 80 just so we don't get too much attention.

I'm sorry, but I have a really hard time believing this one. The BMW I can see more than a 350hp Stang. I mean really – an xB beating a 350 hp Mustang? Let's not get too carried away …

on saturday i raced a 1500hp funny car at the drag strip and totally smoked him. we were both running 87 octane gas. :)

on saturday i raced a 1500hp funny car at the drag strip and totally smoked him. we were both running 87 octane gas. :)

i bet his car died at the start. that would be funny to see though.

we were both running 87 octane gas. :)

ahahah! that's the funniest part! And, he had one spare tire, too! Okay, okay, I'll stop. :D

One we were on the freeway, started off on the turn to get on the 710, and two that mustang has 350+ engine, but old trannie, and I didnt smoke it, i kept up with it, but we stopped just after the Beverly exit off the south 605, which is another big turn...

One we were on the freeway, started off on the turn to get on the 710, and two that mustang has 350+ engine, but old trannie, and I didnt smoke it, i kept up with it, but we stopped just after the Beverly exit off the south 605, which is another big turn...

I believe the xB keeping up with the stang on the freeway because it was probably geared for drag, right? But 350 hp, who are you kiddin'? It's a Ford! =P

And yesterday I raced a BMW 5 series, didnt catch which one, from a dead stop. After a second and a half he was poof gone. And a good laugh was had by all......

I was out cruising on Sunday morning, and I pulled up to the light, and what do you know...there was this 80 year old woman on a rascal (I'm not sure which model). I revved her, next thing I knew the light turned green & we were off. I pulled her at first, but by the time I shifted into second she was gone. I knew I didn't have a chance, but it was good for a laugh.

I gave some accord a hard time, at about 80 mph on freeway, but he had no stones, so he gave up without much a struggle.... how unlike me.

ive taken my xa up to 125mph (automatic) at 120 it was getting freaky cuz the windforce was affecting the traction.

(trying to add his 2 cents and feel special)

Bet my M3 can't beat any Scion because the battery is dead. Ever since I got the xB, I just let it sit in the garage to collect dust. Look wise xB wins. Performance wise Evo, STi, new M3 take the cake.

Bet my M3 can't beat any Scion because the battery is dead. Ever since I got the xB, I just let it sit in the garage to collect dust. Look wise xB wins. Performance wise Evo, STi, new M3 take the cake.

what year M3?

Bet my M3 can't beat any Scion because the battery is dead. Ever since I got the xB, I just let it sit in the garage to collect dust. Look wise xB wins. Performance wise Evo, STi, new M3 take the cake.

what year M3?

1999 Black

hey just drank a keg , took half gallon of liquid lsd from C.I.A. ; bout to smoke 3 lbs. o crack , my stock XB just beat a suzuki hyabusa in 1/4 mile , and topspeed run in excess of 220 mph from cajon pass to vegas and back.

Congrats Eric on beating the BMW!

wtf

Eric, the BMW story is way cool and very believable!

I think we need some more input on this 'research' topic. Any others?

8)

UPDATE: i raced a new turbo carerra this morning and he totally smoked me. so i guess my xB isn't the fastest car you can buy after all. oh well. i wasn't really pushing my car 100% anyway. i didn't want to blow the welds on my intake.

Hey guys about the aerodynamics on the xb, remember its perfectly flat on the bottom. Civic is not and that has alot to do with that wind tunnel effect. But then again you got a slew of body kits to take care of that on a civic.

I raced a civic couple days ago and I guess the "Red Genie Aero" give you that aerodynamic you need!!!
:shock:

not to mention the red genie gives you about 10 whp.

and about 4.6 ft/lbs. or so of torque. j/k, i really like the red genie body kit not only did you beat that civic (hopefully), you looked good doing it.

Eric M. I don't think that BMW was racing you. Even if it was an automatic it would have laid you down.

Eric M. I don't think that BMW was racing you. Even if it was an automatic it would have laid you down.

ok.

You'd be surprised sometimes what a supposedly "slow" car can accomplish.

Admittedly, I don't actually own a Scion yet.......but I am getting one soon for graduation. My current car is a 1987 naturally aspirated Volvo 240. The performance mods aren't extreme........K&N filter.....performance camshaft......adjustable cam gear......chopped off the secondary muffler to cut down a bit on the back pressure. I'd be lucky if I was even hitting 130hp in that big blocky chunk of steel. But.....it's lowered on 17 inch TSW blade rims.......has an impressive exhaust note......a blacked out mesh sport grill.......and a big white sticker across the front window that says "supercharged" (a complete lie by the way). So......I get the occasional hot dog that wants to race me.

My most recent experience was with a Porsche 944. I was doing about 45.....and he pulled up next to me and matched my pace.......looked at me and my car........then took off a bit.........and then waited for me to accept the challenge. Too bad I was at my turnoff........so I took my turn.......and forgot about the Porsche. Till he showed up a couple miles later at a stoplight I was stopped at. I guess he really wanted to race. He took me off the line no problem.......but pretty soon he stopped gaining ground on me........and once i was at about 45-50mph......i was gaining on him...........and past 65........his ___ was toast.

Had a similar experience with a late 90's Stang GT.......he thought he was a tough guy cause he smoked me off the line...........but then got really disturbed when I caught up to him at about 70 and he couldn't shake me.

Also raced some tricked out civic..........this one was a good match up. We raced about 10 miles..........yes.......10 miles.........about a third of which was over surface streets at about 70-75..........then we hit the freeway and got up to about 110. I was out in front the majority of the time........but he pulled on me a little from about 90-100.......after 100.......it was my game again............and he finally had to back off when we hit a bumpy part of the freeway and he started throwing sparks out from under his car.

But I still consider my car slow as an armless monkey in a wheelchair.

KiL

don't get too carry away here guys.. don't forget it's still an echo... :( but great victory. :D and that's one more for the good guys.

I don't think any of us are getting carried away or will be getting carried away by the HP #s of a stock Scion. 108hp can't be writting any other way, and we know it.

It's just nice to hear about the Scion being able to hang with cars with more HP than us for a change--instead of always hearing ____ being talked about how it's an echo engine, and how slow the car itself is.