Look what I found on craigslist

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/pts/122085649.html

I don't have that much money.

 

its for the JDM auto bB. The guy probly bought the kits and didnt realize he wouldnt be able to use them.

 

I mean, I know the turbo only kicks in when you spool, and is basically recycling your hot air, forcing it (back into your engine?). The supercharger is??? I know it ALWAYS works, where as the Turbo kicks in when you floor it, and mostly at mid to higher RPM's... What are the pros and cons of each?

 

A turbo routes your hot exhaust through a turbine that turns and forces fresh air through the intake ( usually through in intercooler to insure density) and doesnt use any power from your engine. The supercharger uses power from your engine to turn it but doesnt have lag (spool time)

 

As has been stated, a turbo uses the exhaust gasses leaving the engine to turn what is called an impeller blade. This impellder blade is connected to an induction (or compressor) blade (think two water wheels connected by a center shaft). When the induction blade spins, it compresses air by forcing it down the pipe (thus the term "forced induction"). This air is then typically sent to an intercooler, which is like a radiator for air. The intercooler cools down this intake charge, because colder air is more dense (and safer!). The "lag" time that you get in a turbocharged car is the time that it takes for the exhaust gas to overcome the inertia of the impeller blade. This is a tradeoff. The smaller the impeller/induction blades, the quicker they will spool, but the less overall boost they will provide. Larger blades mean more boost (and more power), but take much longer to spool up (more boost also requires alot more gasoline to regulate the combustion process, and sometimes upgraded engine components like stronger pistons and rods, rod bearings, etc, to handle the increased load).

A supercharger on the other hand, spins that induction blade via a belt attached to a pulley run off of the crank. This is why it is always on and providing boost. The tradeoff here is that the belt draws power from the engine in order to turn the supercharger, so there is a point of diminishing returns, where it takes so much power to turn the blade faster, any power gain you get from the increased boost is lost trying to spin it.

Hope this clears some things up for you!

 

Thanks for the help. Now, which do you guys prefer for the small yet efficient 1.5L xB engine, for someone who does not care about speeding over 80MPH, but LOVES occasional quick take offs, or overtaking cars quickly?

 

With an engine as small as the 1nz, it doesnt really matter which one you go with. they both have their parcitic power issues, but i think that once the engine is properly tuned, the turbocharger (most turbos) will prove the best bet (power wise). the thing that you have to remember is that once you reach the max "power range" with the turbo that is it, its all you get. most smaller engines peak around 4k to 5k. thats where the power is.

the supercharger will give you a more equal power band, increasing air pressure "boost" as the rpm's increase.

no matter which one you chose, they both have their issues. turbo looses power through the energy waisted through the exhaust passing the turbine withoutmoving it (ie takes large volume of air to move it).

superchargers lose power through the potential energy lost in the belt.
God i wish there where such thing as a propetual motion supercharger, or trbo for that matter. (propetual motion means you get more work out of a machine than you put into it, without outside aids. unfourtunatly, they dont exist. sux huh)

I know i just said a lot of things that where already stated, but i just felt like rambling...haha

 

But if i where to pick one, i would go with the supercharger, because of its more consistant power delivery. And they are just different, there arent many people with supercharged tuners, ya know. SNOWMAN

 

I liked those ramblings. preach on...

So you initially stated you'd get the most power boost with the turbo, but then to choose the supercharger (which may not exist - does it?)... Is the supercharger the preferred choice just because it is rare? I know the turbo is more common because it is just a bit cheaper, but I still wonder which would have better applications for low end rpm, for torque, and basically for the 0-40, and 25-60's ranges...

 

well, yes the supercharger does exist, what i was saying was that the propetual motion machine doesnt exist. or whatever you said, i didnt really pay that much attention. if youre looking for the best low end tourque and power delivery, you are better off with the supercharger. i was saying that i like it better just for the simple fact that not everyone has it. but in all honesty, it is personal preference. like i said, with as small of an engine as the 1nz, you will get simillar results with both of them. But i like the superchager just because of the stigma behind them (i.e. superchargers are more suited to american cars). i like to think that there is more potential power with the supercharger. but as i have stated again and again, with that small of an engine, it really wont matter. SNOWMAN

 

True true. i love the small engine, however. by any chance, do you know if GReddy or Blitz makes superchargers for the xB? and thanks for all of your info.

 

Um...i think blitz makes one but ill have to look into it further. i know for sure that PowerEnterprises makes a really good one, and ive seen it in action and it will really suprise you. i dont know the exact specs on the supercharger, but i think it put the bhp at about 130-140hp and like 125ft/lbs of tourque. daont take it from me though, cause im not totally sure, but i will look in to it. SNOWMAN

 

greddy just came out w/ their superchager i bbist sells them last i say he had 2 left

 

i think he only had 1 left yesterday - and it's a good price

i put my $ in a SC - more reliable, less 'work', and low end power as well as high end power

 

blitz, power enterprise, and greddy all have supercharger kits for the xb/xa.

Personally, if you are going to go f/i go with with a turbo kit. Once the ecu issues or worked out, as well as few other internal parts the 1nz can produce fairly good numbers. (150+) Being you can't really reprogram our 64bit ecu to perfection, its hard to get a proper tune once you start exceeding 10psi and swaping other parts out.

ZPI will be producing turbos very soon for us, save your money and wait. They understand what issues our 1nz has and will be hopefully working with the problems to get max power with what we have.

A good example of the 1nz potential is the 1nz in the echo. Theres a few echo's with 180whp+. One i've seen on the echo/vitz/yaris threads was an echo with 210whp. Complete build up obviously... Too bad we don't share the same ecu as the echo does.

 

blitz: 123whp
p/e: 125whp
greddy: 129whp

All these are based off dyno runs located on here and on other forums.

 

Look at ya tony, you gotta go get all technical and stuff, i was just trying to help the guy decide which would be the best for his application. but its cool. i think though, it would be best to go with the supercharger, just based on the power delivery. you get a more equal range and steady range with the sc and, not to mention, a lot less work tunning and fitting. you dont have to play catch up when the boost hit and hope you dont get your ___ stomped by who ever you race. with the sc the power is alreasy there. SNOWMAN

 

I hafta completely disagree with you on this...I ran a Garrett T20 BB on my xB and was at full spool by 2800 RPM's...that was a consistent pull from 2800 up to redline...I also had the turbo on an automatic so I never fell off boost from shifts. Power delivery may be a lil bit more of a kick in the a$$ with the turbo then a linear charger feel, but having owned both supercharged and turbo'd vehicles, theres nothing like a turbo at full spool instead of waiting to make max power at redline with a blower

 

Okay I know nothing about engines but I’m thinking of upgrading the engine for hauling cargo or towing a trailer. It sounds like a supercharger would be best for solid power at all times. Is this correct? What does whp mean? Does it translate to hp directly?

Any thoughts altering the engine so I can go up hill comfortably with a loaded car? Other lists seem to indicate problems with a fully loaded car and going up hill and a lack of passing power.


-David Fulton

 

David, read what simplyscion wrote and that answers that for you.

Depending on what you want to haul depends on how much power you want. You can't really haul practically without tq, and thats something our small motor isn't meant to do. Even with f/i, you would be putting an extreme amount of stress on our drivetrains, if you did it regularly i wouldn't be surprised if the motor crapped out 4,000 miles later.

Best thing to do is buy a small truck if you don't have the money, buy something thats meant to tow and haul.