take it back or credit me. Basically told me to pound sand. Read On

To whom it may concern,

My name is Bob Grant; I am 46 years old and Director of Professional Services for a software company in Carlsbad California. I am writing to you about your Toyota of Escondido Service Department.

April 20th, 2004, I went to my 3 week old Scion to discover someone had broken the back window directly behind the driver window and made off with my 1700.00-dollar set of golf clubs. I know it is a shame.

Here is my problem. When I purchased the Scion, I bought the Toyota security package. It was installed at the dealership. Funny thing is it didn’t go off when the window was broke.

So I removed the Customer Documentation from the literature you provide and read on the workings of the security system. I found that when a window is tapped on, the police officer said people use spark plugs to break the window and it sounds like a tap on the window when the window is broke, a warning sound goes off for 20 seconds, and then if it hears another tap or glass break it goes completely off. It states to test the systems, lightly to medium tap the driver’s window and the warning alarm should go off.

When I read this I set the alarm, waited 1 min and then tap vigorously on the window and guess what, the alarm did not go off. I tried a few times to no avail. I took it into Toyota of Escondido.

I met the Service Manager and again performed the same routine of setting the alarm and tapping hard on the window. It didn’t go off again. He informed me that the sensitivity was not set correctly and they would retest and reset and that he would authorize the window and a cleaning of the glass including taking the door panel off and cleaning all the glass inside. I asked about some compensation as if the alarm had gone off the burglar might have taken flight and my clubs would have been safe or I may have been able to catch them. He informed me that you would of taken your time getting out bed and may not even of heard it. (My fault, number 1). He then brought over the Scion manager and told him what happened. I again performed the same routine of setting the alarm and tapping vigorously on the window as the customer documentation tells me too. The Scion Manager informed us to wait and he would be back shortly.

I was not completely satisfied at the responses I received but was willing to go along with the cleanup and the replacement of the window. UNTIL, the scion manager appears with a steel device that he says to the service manager this is how we test the system. He proceeds to stick the device a few inches from the security system and clicks it and it set off the alarm. The Service Manager then says well maybe the security system is in valet (My fault number 2). The Scion Manager tells the Service Manager it doesn’t have valet and then announces to all that you cannot test the alarm by tapping on the window. (My Fault Number 3)

Now I am enraged, he was basically calling me an idiot and a liar. I then produced the CUSTOMER DOCUMENTATION and made him read it. He then tells all that, WELL THIS IS NOT IN MY BOOK. I blew up; I yelled at him, the Scion Manager says to me you don’t have to yell at me. I then told him look, I will yell at you I am out a set of expensive golf clubs and you are trying to blame me because you failed to install the security system correctly. It’s your fault and you are making it seem like it’s my fault.
He then says to me well maybe you didn’t lock and alarm it. (My Fault Number 4) I told him then why did the burglar break the window if the doors where open, he says to all, well maybe he didn’t notice that the car was unlocked.

I then started banging on the window and almost broke the window, the alarm finally did go off after numerous attempts, this because I WAS SO ENRAGED AT THIS POINT that instead of tapping as the book suggests I was pounding on it.

Now the service manager tells me in front of many customers in the entrance to the service area, If you don’t like it then you can take your car somewhere else.

I am out a set of clubs, my car is shattered, and there is no one to blame and my so-called SECURITY SYSTEMS SUCKS. And in the end I was made to feel like it was my fault that the system was not installed and tested correctly and that I should just accept it.

I am a service-oriented person as my title states for my job. I was made to feel at fault and belittled in front of many other customers and service workers. Is this the way you train your Service Managers to speak and treat customers? All I want it to return the Security System and be reimbursed.

Final Answer from Toyota is for me to POUND SAND UP MY ___ in not so many words. So buyer beware, the security system does not work.

Man, that sucks.. "Pound sand up my ___" That's a new one for me. I'm actually thinking of getting a shock sensor installed in my xA later today...

call scion corporate. they can be extremely helpfull!

Yes believe me! Scion Corp. can be VERY helpful if you read my post:

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12218

you will see that it can be a very helpful tool...alhtough I still don't have my Box back it has lit a fire under someones ___...and I get an almost daily call from customer advocate with status updates...the latest one is it will be ready tomorrow we'll see...

Their number is 866 707 2466

~WC[/url]

Sorry to hear that you had to find out the hard way, I have been contending for quite a while that the factory security system is a piece of junk.
2 way fm pager alarm, notify you from up to 1\4 mile away,honk honking and a siren, door sensor, starter kill, flashing lights, remote start capability $189.00
Bill Turner dba Scion Specialties

I did go through them that was the final response from the whole situation so now I need to get that one out and a new one in before the whole damn car disappears

That sucks balls... :?

I did go through them that was the final response from the whole situation so now I need to get that one out and a new one in before the whole damn car disappears
You already went through scion corp and they didn't help u? You called scion corp and nothing was done? that doesn;t sound like them, please update us.

P.S.
Sorry to hear about your situation.

I did go through Scion Experience Customer Service, Aaron is he persons name. I took the car to two dealerships and showed them the Toyota documentation about how to test the Glass sensor by tapping on the driver side window. In all cases it did not set off the warning alarm. I was informed the documentation is not valid as it is not in the Scion Managers book so we dont go by that.

I tried to bully, yell, scream, threaten and then to be nice and just say credit me the money back and take it out I dont even want my money back I will buy other things for my car. The District Customer Service Manager told Aaron to call me back and told me NO we arent doing anything for you and that if you want to persue it through other channels, I guess Sue or Better Business Bureau. Im sick about it as I love the car an HATE the service.

That is the update

wow, ok. Sorry to hear, but to yell and scream was probably not the right thing to do. Sometimes just embarrasing the manager will cause them to change their tune, but if you scream that can makes things worse, just my 2 cents. sorry if it is a little harsh. :(

Hmmm...having personally delt with Aaron to get my issue resolved...I'm sorry to hear that he couldn't get anything done...but it seems like maybe the issue isn't with Scion Corp. but the manager in that district

~WC

It wasnt until they made me feel like it was ALL MY FAULT that the alarm didnt go off that the confrontation started. I was the one out 1700 dollars for the golf clubs. I dont want anything except for them to take the dang thing out and give a credit voucher and I will go buy other things for Scion, I dont want the money back. Was I just supposed to stand there and take it, THANK YOU SIR MAY I HAVE ANOTHER. Sorry but that is not my personality when I know Im getting f'd. As for Aaron, he did try but he also was very condesending about the whole situation. I bought a product that I thought would protect me, my car, and at least warn me something was happening to the vehicle and it didnt. I want to return it and they wont take it back. So Im out 450.00 along with the clubs. Does this seem fair to you and should I just take it or should I fight yell and scream to try at get some satisfaction.

Sorry but thats the way I feel. Oh and if the alarm did go off and I went to the car and the stuff was gone because I didnt get there on time that would be a different story.

Sorry but thats the way I feel. Oh and if the alarm did go off and I went to the car and the stuff was gone because I didnt get there on time that would be a different story.

makes sense, but where do you go from here?

I will just buy my stuff after market but not from Toyota. Im screwed there. I hate them and they hate me lol.

Gabe, you won't have that worry in few days, with pager, starter kill, autoarm & autolock, your Xb will be more than secure, thanks for running the scion specialties alarm bro.

I use to work at a ghetto casino in north las vegas, and they broke into my truck even with an alarm, because they knew our security was worthless, any way they stole my deck, 100 hundred cd book, but left my callaway golf clubs. When I was waiting with security in the parking lot the dumb ___ came back for the clubs. I don't know how many times that guy fell face first onto parking lot, he got mad and ran into my fist a few times while in custody waiting for the police to show. He had a temper must of ran into my fist five or six times. when got got there they ask if fell down when we were chasing him. We all said yes. Oh yeah when dumb ___ came to steal my clubs he had my cd player and cd book in his back pack. Now I do believe in the pager system. Bill

... I don't know how many times that guy fell face first onto parking lot, he got mad and ran into my fist a few times while in custody waiting for the police to show. He had a temper must of ran into my fist five or six times...

I hope that he didn't hurt your hand! Remember that your hand is made up of a lot of little bones that are weaker than the jaw or skull bones. Next time someone like this attacks you with their face, deflect the attack to your elbow or knee!

Thanks George, I will remember that if the opportunity arise again. Hopefully I won't have to work in the ghetto again. Bill

Next time someone like this attacks you with their face, deflect the attack to your elbow or knee!

LOLOL

215 Scion had his XB stolen, and it had the Scion alarm, Lojack, plus a hidden, self-installed kill switch. He was asleep inside his house, and it was stolen during the four hours he slept. He never heard the alarm go off, and the police were unable to get a signal from the Lojack. Makes you feel real secure huh?
:evil:

#215 was most likely picked up by a tow truck. LoJack can be easily disconnected, it's not as secure as they make it sound. Try secure-a-trac tracking system for your box. It'll give you the address where the vehicle is located from your pc even with the battery disconnected. It's hot!

http://www.sapias.com/news/archive/20021029.html

If you have some technical savvy, you can get position-reporting for the cost of the hardware (around $200 or so) with APRS:

http://www.wulfden.org/APRSQuery.shtml

To try a specific lookup try keying "W6*" into the "Location(s) of call" box and click on find. then click on one of the blue calls to see the location of that vehicle.

The system is run by volunteers and the data is available to anyone, so you don't have to pay $$$ for Lojack! In addition, you install the equipment, so you can be really creative with its placement!

George

back to the original topic, did you ever have them check the shock sensor's setting? normally you can set them from setting it off with a funny look, all the way down to not going off in the middle of an earthquake.

Do Lexus vehicle's have the same type of system?

ok after reading your post i hate escondido toyota even more. I went there a month or so before i bought my scion and delt with a sales person by the name of jim mniskinis or how ever you spell him name. He's an ___ he lied to me about being able to get my car with out a co-signer, then took $500 of mine and made a special order for a silver 5 speed. A month later when they got it in he enlightened me that i need a co-signer. I had no idea so i called up my dad and tried to convince him. i admit it did take a little bit of time but i was on the phone with toyota every day telling Jim yea my dad is thinking about it he had me just find out some info about where to get the best percentege rate on car loans. Jim turned into a dick and kept telling me oh well i can't hold it i have to sell it. I brought it to his attention that i already put $500 down on this vehicle to reserve it for me and i also waited a month for them to order it so they can be patient with me for a few days. 4 days after they got it in i spoke to a manager in the morning about how i just need one more day and if my dad doesn't do it it's ok for them to sell it that was a wednsday. I then spoke to Jim and he said i have until friday to make up my decision. So i called my dad and he actualy agreed and so still on that same day that i spoke with the manager i went into toyota of escondido and when i walked into the show room floor i noticed it wasn't in there where it had origonaly sat. A sales person approched me to see if i needed any help i told him i'm here to buy my car that they ordered for me. He went over to the little office with the limo tint glass where all the managers hide and came back with one of them. The manager told me that they had sold the car 45 mins ago. I flipped into that same yelling mode you talked about when you were there about your golfclubs. I got my money back and went to carlsbad where i should have gone in the first place. Carlsbad was really nice to me even though i had to wait another month to get one and i too spoke with Aaron from customer service and my mom ripped him a new one and he still couldn't really do anything for me. I HATE ESCONDIDO and since i had that problem i'm hearing hore stores left and right.

ok now to the alarm issue. K first off their alarm sucks which you found out the hard way. i'm really sorry to hear that but this is what you need to get. I purchased the clifford 2.5 alarm system that works up to a football field away and is cheaper then totyotas nottomention it's better. the clifford alarm is an alamr that actualy pages your remote device when any one is tampering with your car. It can be set to any sensitivity that you desire. when some one sets off the warning sensor your remote unit is paged and sets off a loud beeping noise, when some one fully sets it off it will beep and continue to beep and on the LCD screen it will show you tha some one is messing with your ca, on the LCD screen it will show you what sensor is going off. I love this system and it really does give you piece of mind that your car is ok. another helpfull thing my mother would like me to add is it shows you if your car is locked or not. i can't tell you how many countless times we go into a restarant and she is asking me if she locked her car or not and i get the task of running out the the parking lot to check. but with mine i just look at the screen and it will show you if it's locked or not. Viper also sells one just like this but i thinkit's more expensive. i got it at best buy for $420 free instal and life time garantee, any problems just bring it back, need the sensors to be more sensitive cause your going up to visit a friend who lives in compton just bring it back and they will make the sensors as sensitive as possible. their are other ones that they sell that start your car and what not but it's the 2.5 that does just what you need and none of that other usless crap.

let me know what you do
Evan
jdmchampwtb@yahoo.com

good info on the Clifford.

When I first ordered my Scion I wanted Side Airbags, Alarm, Matts, and Fog Lights.

After being in this forum, I've pretty much changed my mind about everything but the Side Airbag (which I cant' get anyway because of availability). I'll have to stop by Best Buy and check out their alarms.

ok now to the alarm issue. K first off their alarm sucks which you found out the hard way. i'm really sorry to hear that but this is what you need to get. I purchased the clifford 2.5 alarm system that works up to a football field away and is cheaper then totyotas nottomention it's better. the clifford alarm is an alamr that actualy pages your remote device when any one is tampering with your car. It can be set to any sensitivity that you desire. when some one sets off the warning sensor your remote unit is paged and sets off a loud beeping noise, when some one fully sets it off it will beep and continue to beep and on the LCD screen it will show you tha some one is messing with your ca, on the LCD screen it will show you what sensor is going off. I love this system and it really does give you piece of mind that your car is ok. another helpfull thing my mother would like me to add is it shows you if your car is locked or not. i can't tell you how many countless times we go into a restarant and she is asking me if she locked her car or not and i get the task of running out the the parking lot to check. but with mine i just look at the screen and it will show you if it's locked or not. Viper also sells one just like this but i thinkit's more expensive. i got it at best buy for $420 free instal and life time garantee, any problems just bring it back, need the sensors to be more sensitive cause your going up to visit a friend who lives in compton just bring it back and they will make the sensors as sensitive as possible. their are other ones that they sell that start your car and what not but it's the 2.5 that does just what you need and none of that other usless crap.

let me know what you do
Evan
jdmchampwtb@yahoo.com

Cool, I am supposed to have that system installed today after I pick up my Lava Box.
I remember asking the Scion dealer if their system had a starter kill, he told me no. Seemed like the system was a worthless noise maker at that point. Not to mention that the Clifford and Viper systems with the Responder are less than the Scion Security, and basically $20 bucks more if you get the remote start (so not interested). I will definitely have to test this whole glass thing out when they are done.

people do not buy the alarm system. All I wanted was a credit and take the damn thing out. I would of bought fog lights or interior led or something I know that works. I am now writing to the VP of customer service for Scion. Maybe he can do something.

Out

I think you should see a lawyer about their refusal to honor the test in your documentation. It seems to me that that's a contract/warranty issue. I'm not saying you should sue the pants off them, but trying to recover your losses and obtain performance on your contract is entirely reasonable. Plus, even if you had to go through a big court process, your lawyer could even ask the court to make the dealership pay your court costs and attorney's fees if you win (under the priciple that when you're in the right, you shouldn't have to go to court to get what you deserve).

Let me first stress that while I have a law degree I am not yet licensed and thus cannot give you legal advice myself. What I can do is tell you a little bit about why I think you should see a contract lawyer.

When you buy a car, the contract is what you physically signed and may or may not include other documentation. That depends on the language of the separate documcentation, what it covers, when/how it was given to you or came into your possession, who wrote it, whether some or all of it has traditionally been treated as binding, etc etc etc. But you can be damn sure the dealership would consider any piece of paper with the word "payment" on it to be a contract term and hold you to it on the argument that you got all that stuff together with the contract itself. So there's nothing wrong with you using the same logic to bind them here.

Additionally, this is a manufacturer- and dealer- approved security system given that they offer it and installed it for you. That means that Scion and your dealership are implicitly accepting the standards of the company that makes the system (I'm assuming a third party makes that system but if Scion or Toyota does then this goes double b/c it's their own language in that document you have). Too bad for them it's not in their service manual. It's not your fault that they can't coordinate your documentation with their own. They gave you what they gave you, and if they didn't want that part in there they should have read everything closer prior to disseminating it. By giving that paper to you, they're standing behind what it says. If you accidentally miss a term, or if you're carelss about reading it, they'd say too bad for you but it's all right there in the papers. It works both ways.

Plus, you never signed and I'm guessing never saw the service manual. You can't be bound by something you never saw or dealt with and that was never mentioned or alluded to in your contract. Look for language in your contract and documentation about the service manual - something about procedures in the manual are the only ones considered valid, blah blah. If there isn't any such language, that's even better for you. Make sure you give everything to any lawyer you consult, and explain how it came into your possession. Was it with the contract? Was it packaged separately, in plastic or something? Are there terms in that paper that bind you? Did they hand everything to you at once? Have you read it before signing or at least give it to you to read if you wanted before signing? Etc.

Meet with a few lawyers - initial consultations are most often free, and you can get a few opinions on what you could recover, when, how, and whether it was worth it. Honestly, the mere mention that you're consulting a lawyer may expedite the process for you and get you what you want without having to go through a big long proccess.

If that doesn't work, write to a consumer advocate in your local newspaper or TV news station. That's another great way to get what you want, maybe even better than the legal system, because despite the old saying, when it comes to businesses there is such a thing as bad press. Nothing lights a fire under the asses of these jerks like the prospect of losing future customers.

I don't know if this was posted, but when he said that you may not have locked the doors. I found out that the doors auto lock after you get out of the car a minute later. It just shows just how uninformed the service guys are.

Jason

If you have some technical savvy, you can get position-reporting for the cost of the hardware (around $200 or so) with APRS:

http://www.wulfden.org/APRSQuery.shtml

To try a specific lookup try keying "W6*" into the "Location(s) of call" box and click on find. then click on one of the blue calls to see the location of that vehicle.

The system is run by volunteers and the data is available to anyone, so you don't have to pay $$$ for Lojack! In addition, you install the equipment, so you can be really creative with its placement!

George
Never did I think I would see APRS in a Scion forum!
This could be a very good system.
But you have to be a Ham Radio Operator!
Oh well looky there,I am!
Most people wouldnt go through the trouble to get a ham license just for APRS.
But it is a good setup.I run it in my Lincoln.But not because it might get stolen!