I got my tC last august and I love it but I have a little regret. I bought it knowing I would want to mod it, and I love to go fast so naturally I like to race(when it is warranted... ie-hondas). But when it comes to performance it seems like there is a stigma attached to automatics.
Someone please make me feel better about my purchase... :wink:

I know exactly how you feel. Everytime I drive my car or before i go to sleep, I always tell myself that I should of gotten manual. I really regret it because my friends told me to get manual and my parents convinced me to getting an auto. I was really close to getting manual.

well with an auto you dont have to worry about burning up a clutch and you have to do less shifting when you drive around (big plus if your stuck in traffic). If you turbo the car you wont lose boost when you shift with an auto since you can keep your foot on the gas the whole time.

Blues, thats exactly what happened with me. A close friend co-signed for me, who is kinda like my second father, and he convinced me. He also thinks im stupid for putting money into mods for my car. Hes more of the american muscle type. I cant help it , something draws me to that import power. The idea of making something big out of something small. I just hope that these companies come out with upgrades for A/T trannies and dont look over those of us who messed up that day at the dealership...

check out sciondad his daughter has an a/t with zpi turbo in it

There's nothing wrong with an automatic. There are only 3 problems with an automatic that I see:
1. They add more weight
2. You can't launch as hard as a manual
3. You can't control the RPMs as easily if you are auto-Xing or just spirited driving through curvy roads

What you gain by having an automatic:
1. In many cases above 20 MPH the auto will be faster than a manual because most people can't outshift an auto
2. Higher resale value
3. Better for just cruising around or heavy traffic
4. When you get married you can let your wife have it and you get the new car. If she can't drive a manual, she gets the new car. :rofl:

Nothing to worry abouut. It all depends on what you want to do and how you want to spend your time driving. The automatic has several advantages over a manual transmission and vice versa.

A properly built auto can certainly take an equally built manual in a 1/4 mile run. Once you get to a certain level of torque the problem becomes wheel spin for both types. The advantage however quickly shifts to the automatic. Once the auto spools boost, it stays in boost, while the manual dumps boost during shift, etc.. With a proper stall torque converter, the power transferred to the wheels is shifted and constant all the way to a locked out final gear. Not likely a manual tC can shift and keep up with that. However, it has not been an easy road finding the necessary kit to help our stock transmission. But it is only a matter of time. It's a new car line.

Having said that, manuals do have the advantage of controlling the gears thru turns and corners much better, keeping the rpms where they want. Automatic however, have gained in serious leaps in dealing with this and you see it in higher end new car electronic transmissions.

This is something hopefully available for the TC soon. Several companies looking at it.

In the mean time, drink a soda, talk on your phone and just cruise around in your ride. Or, drink a soda, talk on your phone and still make a real nice pass in the fast lane with a little boost. :rofl:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/kirchwrk/P9190118.jpg

Thanx fellas that makes me feel a little better. Well a lot better now I know Im not the only one with an auto and performance on the brain. Sciondad have You experienced any problems with your automatic transmission running a turbo.

Thanx fellas that makes me feel a little better. Well a lot better now I know Im not the only one with an auto and performance on the brain. Sciondad have You experienced any problems with your automatic transmission running a turbo. :bow: By the way did I mention I envy you....

Oops, double-post, sorry guys Im new here...lol :silly:

are there any legal turbos for the tC? cause i live in cali.

They're illegal in cali? And I think there is only one kit fitted for the auto anyway...the zpi stage 0

I gave up and am selling all of my bolt ons. I got a Yamaha R1 to quench my need for speed and keep my TC Auto for cruising, the auto is not worth much else. You can do the Sciondad thing, but be ready for an investment.
Until the auto develops a good torque converter and valve body, spend your money on things you know will make a big difference.
I know it is just me but I spent 8 grand on a low mileage bike that does 0-60 in two seconds, and I can hide it in my den if I need to.
Best of Luck to you, as a previous 11sec Mustang owner (all motor) with a JW C-4 tranny, I think reality kicked in for me almost immediately after spending $1,000 on updrades for the Scion.
When realiable auto upgrades are available, I will sell the R1 and get a Stage 1 ZPI turbo - until then I'll be cruisin' ... :eyebrow:

Thanks RAMROD. I dont really want to trade my tC in right now but I know that in the future I will probably grow out of it and want more power. so Im kinda just takin it slow now and keepin it N/A. I know that it will never really be a true beast but I have some kind of hope. Plus they're great cars IMO. Of course Im slightly biased though. I just like the idea of one day having a 12 second 4 banger and pulling up next to a cocky someone at a light with for ex. a mustang...and beating the brakes of of em... or at least hangin with em. I wanna see the look on their face.lol :shock:

man autos are great i live in houston...i wouldnt have it any other way we spend 47.8 hours of our lives in traffic here in houston(herd it on the radio the other week). In the long run the a/t will beat the m/t on the 1/4 mile....im working with a compnay right now to see about upgrading to withstand more power. you did good some people will complain and the m/t will always dog on you but just let them be the true racers will have respect for an auo. And listen to scion dad he's pushin close if not over 300whp and its an a/t.

I thought the stock block on the tC could only withstand 300 hp?

I thought the stock block on the tC could only withstand 300 hp?

well scion speed(losers) went 400 whp on theres and hit 12.1 on the 1/4.....zpi went over 400whp before they blew thiers.....so it can take a descent amount the reason an a/t hasnt gone over 300 is because no one knows if the tranny can support it. SO scion dad is going to be the first one to test it hes supposd to be upgrading to the zpi stage 1 kit soon.

I thought Scion Dad said it was rated for 220whp.

That sounds about right, those kits arent rated for more than 230. I think and it would be even less with the auto tranny.

I thought Scion Dad said it was rated for 220whp.

the base stage 0 yes. but he has upgraded his and i believe is running 7-8psi instead of the stock 6 thats its supposd to be.

You shouldn't feel stupid for buying an auto. There is not much you can do to change your transmission from auto to manal, so don't worry about it. If you are that unsure, go to the dealer, test drive a manual and see if you like it. If you like it, see what it would cost you to trade-in. You'll take a loss, but you'll have to determine for yourself if it is worth it. I personally have an auto and a 5-speed tC. I like them both, but they are very different cars. The auto is comfortable and easy, while the manual feels so much more powerful and spirited. You have to choose what is right for you, not what is right for everyone else on this forum.

They wouldn't make automatics if some people didn't prefer them.

Guys buying an auto is not a bad decision. However more performance is attainable from the manual. Just wait a bit longer there are several companies already developing a high stall speed TQ converter for our cars and other power accessories, give it time and keep the mods light or go FI. :D

I thought the auto was like 1 second plus slower 0-60 stock? This in the end would have to make it a loser vs. a 5 speed right? Not a loser in being a good car just a track and time thing?

Yeah an auto would definitely lose to a 5speed with a decent driver.

Automatics aren't all bad, they're still geared pretty agressively from what I remember of my test drive. Sure I enjoy having that little extra bit of control over my engine with my MT, but sometimes when I'm tired driving can feel a bit like a chore. Plus I don't tend to shift as well in my work shoes, so some of my shifts are crappy which is annoying. For as much fun as you can occasionally have with a manual, it'd be nice to just be able to cruise around and sip on a soda. So don't feel bad about your purchase, and take an extra sip for me! :D

yea i think ive deciced on just waitin to boost mine until everybody has perfected it all
heh

Thanks again guys. What exactly does the high--speed stall torque converter do. In lehmans terms or otherwise... :doh:

I agree Eppo, it seems like to much of a risk, especially for young people like us that dont have a**piles of cash, and not to mention the warranty that we paid good money for.

Thanks again guys. What exactly does the high--speed stall torque converter do. In lehmans terms or otherwise... :doh:

As you know a torque converter transfers mechanical energy between the engine and the transmission. A high-stall torque converter allows you to stage at a higher RPM. Simply put, when you have your foot on the brake and gas, there is a certain RPM now that you can launch under and get good results, with the high-stall that RPM number will be higher allowing you to be closer to the power band and get better launches.

Ahhhhhhh...I want one along with those 11:1 pistons zpi makes....that would be sexy.

Thanks again guys. What exactly does the high--speed stall torque converter do. In lehmans terms or otherwise... :doh:

Torque converter is key to improved performance in an automatic with boost. By replacing your converter, it is like having a variable gear ratio. People always think that if you have a high stall converter, your car won't start to move untill you hit that RPM, not true at all. They just are not transfering 100% of the power that it is able to. ( Unless you have a lock up converter, it will never transfer 100% of the power. Just 100% of the power it is capable) The stall rating is just the point when the converter is transfering all the power it can. So you want to pick a converter based on what RPM your power band is, boost and cam and what not. A converter is the first thing you should go for if your are planning on running an automatic for drag. To sum it up. They won't give you more power, they will help you utlize the power that you have.

eh... im trading in my auto no matter what, gonna lose have to pay 3 grand more after taxes for an 06 mt, but it will be worth it for me. Auto puts me to sleep, even though i know how to own a is300 with it, i still getburned by freaking is350's. Im still getting a pretty good deal though because my car has like 5 grand worth of unnoticeable damage to it . So y keep an late 04/05 tc when i can get a fresh 06 lol

Yes, very stupid. :)

Well, well, well. ZPI just announced their Automatic tC electronic shift kit and valve body upgrades will be available by the end of Feb.

It's high time the Auto's represent.....Nothing like smokin a guy while he's shifting his brains out and your drinking a soda and talking on the phone. :rofl:

The only reasons I know of why anyone who really enjoys driving a sporty car would get an automatic are:
A. You don't know how to drive a manual and are too scared or too stubborn to learn.
B. You need one hand free at all times to smoke joints. A friend of mine claimed this is why he wanted to buy a new RSX with automatic. I prefer to drive sober.

I like to have more control over my car. I like being in the right gear to power out of turns. My tC is my fourth car and all have been manuals. I come from a manual-driving family... my going-on-60-years-old mom recently replaced her mini van with an Outback and it's a manual. With the factory short-shift kit.

So unless you feel stupid because my mom is more hardcore than you, then you're fine.

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=105322&highlight= heres why you buy an auto. :D

Scion Dad is correct for straight line drag races, though he has admitted stick is better in the turns. If the AT can be converted to a Manual Valve Body, THEN we have a serious debate on our hands. I have driven MT for 12 years and now AT for the last few years. In Miami, the roads are just too congested to have fun chirping tires in 2nd and 3rd anymore. So a AT is a trade-off 5-10% of the time in the car, but less of a headache for the other 90%.
For Example: If you have a J-O-B that requires a 45-60 minute drive (or really a CRAWL) each way - and every day - you would understand. Fortunately I still have a MT as a back up if I am feeling frisky.

There's nothing wrong with an automatic. There are only 3 problems with an automatic that I see:
1. They add more weight
2. You can't launch as hard as a manual
3. You can't control the RPMs as easily if you are auto-Xing or just spirited driving through curvy roads

What you gain by having an automatic:
1. In many cases above 20 MPH the auto will be faster than a manual because most people can't outshift an auto
2. Higher resale value
3. Better for just cruising around or heavy traffic
4. When you get married you can let your wife have it and you get the new car. If she can't drive a manual, she gets the new car. :rofl:

one more problem! the cost a bit more

There's nothing wrong with an automatic. There are only 3 problems with an automatic that I see:
1. They add more weight
2. You can't launch as hard as a manual
3. You can't control the RPMs as easily if you are auto-Xing or just spirited driving through curvy roads

What you gain by having an automatic:
1. In many cases above 20 MPH the auto will be faster than a manual because most people can't outshift an auto
2. Higher resale value
3. Better for just cruising around or heavy traffic
4. When you get married you can let your wife have it and you get the new car. If she can't drive a manual, she gets the new car. :rofl:

one more problem! the cost a bit more

and thats why the resale is higher.

:rofl: that's a good one :rofl:

A properly built auto can certainly take an equally built manual in a 1/4 mile run.

The automatic is more money to start off with (about $1000).. And it's going to take even more money to get it as fast as a stock manual transmition.

If the tC had a better automatic transmition it would be different (like an LS1 or even an LT1).. but the transmition is setup for fuel economy and that's it.. That's why it gets better gas mileage then the manual tC when it's normally the other way around.

I say if you're interested in fuel economy, get an automatic tC.
If you're interested in performance:cost, get a manual.

and thats why the resale is higher.

:blah: ..If you go on kbb.com and check the trade-in value on a 2005 tC, it doesn't matter if you put automatic or manual, it's the same price.. Mine has 18,000 miles.. I used excellent condition.... I tryed automatic & manual and the price was the same ($15,325)..

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=105322&highlight= heres why you buy an auto. :D

That's not really a reason to buy an auto... more like a reason why it's not bad to buy an auto.

one more reason not to buy auto... just incase it hasnt been said yet...

Automatics are just not much fun to drive

and thats why the resale is higher.

:blah: ..If you go on kbb.com and check the trade-in value on a 2005 tC, it doesn't matter if you put automatic or manual, it's the same price.. Mine has 18,000 miles.. I used excellent condition.... I tryed automatic & manual and the price was the same ($15,325)..

Theres a difference between fair market value, and the book value on the car.

It is a known issue, with all cars, than an automatics generally sell for higher than manuals.

The blue book value of the tC right now isnt going to be much different between the automatic and the manual, but in a year or 2 or 3, you will see how the automatic tC's are selling for more than manual tC's.

one more reason not to buy auto... just incase it hasnt been said yet...

Automatics are just not much fun to drive


hmmm thats weird.... i think my auto tC is very fun to drive.

i used to drive a 93 Nissan Altima, so maybe its relative?

Either way, i love driving my tC and i think its still fun to drive.

Theres a difference between fair market value, and the book value on the car.

:lol:

Kelly blue book is very fair.. I know of 3 dealerships around here that go by kbb.com when you trade in a car.. Whatever kbb says, that's what they give you (as long as the condition matches what you entered into kbb).

You won't get $1 more for that automatic transmition that cost you $1,000 extra initially.

Theres a difference between fair market value, and the book value on the car.

:lol:

Kelly blue book is very fair.. I know of 3 dealerships around here that go by kbb.com when you trade in a car.. Whatever kbb says, that's what they give you (as long as the condition matches what you entered into kbb).

You won't get $1 more for that automatic transmition that cost you $1,000 extra initially.

What i'm trying to tell you, is that KBB and fair market value are 2 different things.
This isnt about KBB being fair.

And as for not getting any more money for the auto tranny, car history must be lying to us, because automatics have ALWAYS held their value better than manuals.

Maybe you won't see this initially. Down the road in a few years you will.

Maybe you won't see this initially. Down the road in a few years you will.

It's possible, but I highly doubt it.. The car would be worth more right now if that was true.. There's no reason that the resale is going to drop on a manual more then an automatic if it hasn't already.

I'll race your manual against my auto when its done at ZPI any day. I'll make you want an Auto.

Maybe you won't see this initially. Down the road in a few years you will.

It's possible, but I highly doubt it.. The car would be worth more right now if that was true.. There's no reason that the resale is going to drop on a manual more then an automatic if it hasn't already.

Of course there is, the demand for the tC is so high right now, people will pay ridiculous prices [fair market value], just to get their hands on one.

In a few years, the fair market value of the cars will drop to book value, and this is when you will see the automatic selling for more than the manual.

I'll race your manual against my auto when its done at ZPI any day. I'll make you want an Auto.

believe me, I will not be jealous.. I choose the cheaper/faster model (manual)..

my manual tC only has 2 performance mods (header and CAI). i'll be glad to race an automatic with equal mods, and i'll make you want a manual.. it wouldn't even be close.

what's the fastest automatic running in the quarter? i don't even think they're in the 13s yet.. :lol:

just remember when you get your car from ZPI that you could of had a faster car for less money with the same exact turbo.

let's see how much money you'll have to throw into it just to make it as fast as a manual.

*turn downs knob on testerone level*

this thread is not a debate on whats faster, the original poster wanted to know if an automatic could be made fast, and the answer is yes, the auto tC can be fast.

the manual tC does respond better to mods, but that isnt the debate here.

In a few years, the fair market value of the cars will drop to book value, and this is when you will see the automatic selling for more than the manual.

Well, I'll tell you what, if this thread is still going in 2-3 years then I guess it'll be settled. :) Until then neither of us has any proof.

In a few years, the fair market value of the cars will drop to book value, and this is when you will see the automatic selling for more than the manual.

Well, I'll tell you what, if this thread is still going in 2-3 years then I guess it'll be settled. :) Until then neither of us has any proof.

Agreed.

*turn downs knob on testerone level*

this thread is not a debate on whats faster, the original poster wanted to know if an automatic could be made fast, and the answer is yes, the auto tC can be fast.

the manual tC does respond better to mods, but that isnt the debate here.

*turns down knob on power trip level*

The title of the thread is "Should I feel stupid for buying an A/T?", everything I said is related to this topic..

Just because you personally don't like what people say in the thread doesn't mean you should lock it.

Everything I said was related to the subject, if you don't like it, then don't read it.

*turn downs knob on testerone level*

this thread is not a debate on whats faster, the original poster wanted to know if an automatic could be made fast, and the answer is yes, the auto tC can be fast.

the manual tC does respond better to mods, but that isnt the debate here.

*turns down knob on power trip level*

The title of the thread is "Should I feel stupid for buying an A/T?", everything I said is related to this topic..

Just because you personally don't like what people say in the thread doesn't mean you should lock it.

Everything I said was related to the subject, if you don't like it, then don't read it.

excuse me, i only said that before ANOTHER pointless debate began about automatics and manuals. and yes i DO have the power to come in and lock a thread if i see it is getting out of hand. I never said i disliked anything anyone said in this thread. I am a moderator, and if something is out of place, it is my responsibilty to take action.

and yes i DO have the power to come in and lock a thread if i see it is getting out of hand.

Yes, Mr. moderator, we all know you have the "great power" of clicking on a button that says 'lock'..

Everything said in this thread is related to the topic, but, if you want, lock another good thread.. saving the world 1 thread at a time, right?

Anyways.. back to the topic..

manual > automatic :)

manual > automatic :)

This is not related to the topic, and I'm not arguing with you anymore. Unfortunetely, you have caused me to lock this thread.