Ok, so basically, ever since I got my Auto '06 BSP tC in July of 05.. I wanted it to make it look more decent than stock by adding lowering springs and other "cosmetic" stuff.. Now I want to transfer myself into the performance section. I want my car to be STRICTLY N/A..

After doing some research, I learned that an auto tC is more of an economy car. In one thread, somebody stated a dyno run of an auto tC - 122whp/135tq STOCK. My aim is 150-160hp/140-???tq.. would it be possible, for an auto?

As of right now, I only have an Injen CAI. By next week, I will be ordering the Megan Catback.. How much of an increase in hp/tq would that be by just the Injen CAI and the Megan catback? If i was to add the Megan S-pipe and Megan headers (planning to go megan all-out).. will there be a big difference?

If the whole I/H/E setup wouldn't reach my 150-160hp goal.. is FI the only way?

Thanks in advanced.

hey haha, i was planning on the MR set up as well, but then i realized that if i go cheap with the car, that it wont perform as well. see the thing is, the MR has said to been dynoed, but ive never seen the results..however it does "make" 12hp to the wheels, the injen makes like 6hp, MR headers make about 7hp, and the spipe should make 5hp...so total that equals about 30hp...however this is a ruff estimate on what i remember...so you should make about 152hp to the wheels. however i plan to make a little more, like 160hp with these modds: AW headers/Injen CAI/MR s-pipe/Draxas s-pipe back/AW tb...that should make maybe 170hp to the wheels but ill say 160 just to keep it safe. also with pulleys and such youll do alot better..or how about a stage one head? o ya, i have an auto

Let's just be sure we're all on the same page about dynos like this. Two "5 whp mods" do not necessarily stack. 5+5 could equal 8. It could equal 11. Depends on the mods and how they work together.

Since everyone's working with the same engine... and the I/H/E/Spipe combos typically yield results about 15-20 over typical stock dynos, then you can shoot for between 135-140whp with that.

Beyond that, there are a few little things that may or may not add power, but will make you faster, achieving the same purpose. STICKY TIRES, pulleys, TIRES, head package, TIRES, suspension/camber kit, midpipe upgrades, weight reduction, TIRES, etc.

hey whats up bro...i too have an auto and im looking for hp... i got a injen CAI right now..and looking at alphawerks headers or DC sport...lol but yeah so ill referr to this post quite a bit...but i herd ZPI is making some insane auto parts soon so yeah

Be carefull on how you spend your cash. Don't follow the hype. Make sure you do your homework. Lots of the I/H/E options will take away low-end grunt that the Automatic Transmission TC's need to get moving.

Lots of the stuff you read on power this and that are from folks who have 5-speed manuals. On a 5-speed you can "force" the engine to operate in it's best power-band. When you start to mod the A/T you will not be able to "force" the tranny to operate in the area of increased power. ie you will actually be slower...

The CAI is a good mod because it sounds good and does not take too much power away. Add Headers and exhaust and you loose even more low-end torque.

I/H/E?


Injen, headers, exhaust?

Maybe with the MMW Header and complete cat back with your injen you should be around your goal or maybe even over those numbers!

I/H/E?


Injen, headers, exhaust?

Intake
Headers
Exhaust.

As for reaching 160HP, you're going to have to do a lot of tuning.
Sure, IHE may give you another 15whp, but 125+15 is only 140
You have 20 more wheel horsepower left to gain.
My suggestion, if you want to run completely NA, is to get your hands on ZPI's 11:1 compression pistons. And then of course, you'll need some serious tuning.
With all of that, you should be making well over 160HP, but your engine will require premium fuel.

Maybe I can shed a different light on the subject. do you have access to a dyno? If not, then why worry about how much HP a part makes. What advertising fails to mention is what part of the powerband does 12 HP gain come into effect? Is it high in the band or middle? Opening the exhaust( header, test pipe, cat-back) will boost your higher level of power. That includes some Torque figures , but not much. Header helps Torque a little more than a cat-back. CAI will help help HP/TQ a little too. CAI will keep intake temps more consistent, but a short ram will improve throttle response. You will have to rely more on the butt dyno more than anything. But be careful, Being San Diego, I'm sure the Law will be unhappy with your noise levels coming from the tail-pipe. I (as well as most of you) have heard the full header back exhaust and test pipe and it's Honda loud and blatty and you'll prolly end up in court with a violation. So don't waste your money with that mess. Better to work and tune the intake side first and see which you would like the "feel" of better. CAI or short ram. Maybe do lighter pulleys and an underdrive to raise throttle response too. Then work with Exhaust after that. But most important, don't worry about making top HP/TQ figures. Worry more about your driving experience in the car as a whole. That makes your mods a bit more worth while. Don't rule out suspension work either. The more adjustment, the better tunability you'll have. Maybe adjustable rear upper links and damping adjustment o the shocks with a stiffer rear sway bar will get the tC handling really good. Have fun!!

zpi stage 0

ive heard its actually better for autos to go turbo since our rpms will stay low? So ive heard?

zpi stage 0

ive heard its actually better for autos to go turbo since our rpms will stay low? So ive heard?

I'm pretty sure he said he wants to stay NA, that means no forced induction.

ooops!

Well since he's going with I/H/E and will void the warranty once one of those fail, might as well go big?

ooops!

Well since he's going with I/H/E and will void the warranty once one of those fail, might as well go big?

His warranty is only void if the dealership can prove that an intake, header, or exhaust is causing the problem. So in other words, no, he isnt voiding any warrantys initially.

thats why i said "once one of those fail".

the dealer isnt dumb!

thats why i said "once one of those fail".

the dealer isnt dumb!

Well the intake shouldnt fail on him, and neither should the headers or exhaust if thats what youre talking about.

20 More hosepower being produced by this engine shouldn't put too much stress; relatively of course.

Even the TRD supercharger puts double the power of IHE to the engine and its warrantied.

ok

ok i have an automatic and i was wondering y is there such a big difference in hp between the manual and the automatic i mean 40hp and 30 tq is alot. i dont think thats true but any feedback

ok i have an automatic and i was wondering y is there such a big difference in hp between the manual and the automatic i mean 40hp and 30 tq is alot. i dont think thats true but any feedback

Its not just the HP and Torque numbers that are keeping the performance different, its the longet gear ratios in the automatic that make it slightly slower.

i know the gear ratios and everything but can that rly make that much of a difference
i mean 40hp is alot

It's the automatic transmission... The engine is producing the same HP as the 5-speed manual guys. The difference is that you will not be able to see the power at the wheels. That's the price you pay when you get A/T.

thought so..thanks

btw where u drivin ur tc around preston today around 950ish 10

auto tranny has more moving parts than the manual tranny. more power has to go into the tranny.

as for i/h/e, intake will get u very minor gains. if you add a header and exhaust you wont necessarily lose power. adding a header alone will get you more hp and tq. but when u add the exhaust in, you may lose low end torque, depending on the size of the piping. if you are going NA you dont want anything bigger than 2.5". right now, i'm running AW header stock s-pipe and midpipe, and greddy sp2. my draxas s-pipe (2.5") will be coming in soon. the SP2 uses 2.5" piping as well. i'm going to leave the mid pipe stock (about 2.25-.35) jus so i wont lose much of anything. i think that'll balance it out ok. but whenever i s/c im gonna change it to 2.5" as well.

Definitely upgrade you tires.

As for pulleys, they work, but if you want minimal engine wear, you should avoid them. i think the underdrive pulley messes up the auto tensioner too. but that's only if something goes wrong. but yeh, pulleys work but arent necessarily good for the car.

another upgrade you should do is an ESM. greddy emanage is more than enough for an NA car. you could get SAFC2, cheaper but less things u can control vs. the emanage. tuning your car would help quite a bit.

Thanks a lot for the replies guys..

Yeah, the auto's low-end really does suck.. and basically that's what I want to work on and the overall hp/tq as well..

I read the ZPI thread last night in the Forced Induction section about the E.S.K. and valve body upgrades coming out.. Will they be available to the Auto owners in general or only to the ones that have turbo/superchargers?

You gotta understand that i'm only 19 and I pay for more important things like bills, and to also support my mom with a lot of things. So basically, this is something I want to slow down with and not go all out with crazy stuff (Even though I'd love to get my hands on a Stage 0). That's why I'm planning to go all out MR, and just for you guys, i'll dyno it and post the results. Expect maybe about 2-3 weeks though. But then again, the MR setup would be the last resort that's why I want to here from you guys. So I have a couple of questions/comments for you individuals that posted:

blackonblacktc: Hey man, I did some searching about the pullies and they told me that it's only for supercharger owners(??) And also about the stage one head, you can just do that?

senseiturtle: I agree with you on the mixture of the I/H/E setup. And I noticed the 'TIRES' that you constantly put, haha. I'm still on stock rims/tires. What kind of header would you recommend that won't give me hell (CEL)?

KickAssKishan: What's up bro.. look's like we're on the same boat. Yeah, ZPI's coming up.. i'm looking forward to that. Thanks for the post.

ERIC-TC: Yeah I noticed that my tC got slower in the low-end.. but it feels like I achieved more in the high-end.. From other posts, I've heard 5-speed owners say the same thing about the low-end.

trdtcpr: I've dreamt about getting the MMW header, but then again its $650. haha.. but I assure you I will get it someday. It's all a matter of patience and saving.

TheQuietThings: Hey man, I have no knowledge in this tuning stuff. What does the ZPI 11:1 pistons do actually? And for tuning, are you talking about those E-manage/computer gadget stuff?

JDMJim: Hey man, thanks a lot for your input. Yeah, i've heard about the pullies, but lately i've been ignoring them since the last thing that hit was "You need a supercharger for pullies". SO will these pullies help in the lack of low-end?

Yanki01: Yeah, i'm not planning to go FI YET. I'm just trying to chill and stay N/A for a while.

Thanks again to all you guys trying to help.. I appreciate it..

Also its not getting 40 hp less to the wheels, 5 speeds get around 140 to the wheels. I'm pretty mad at myself for getting an auto....i'm just starting to realize that i need to go I/H/E plus maybe a lighter crank pully just to be as fast as the stick. :doh:

I have an Injen CAI right now, and I'm going to get the MR catback (version 2)... So basically all im doing is adding a deep sound to my car without any gains at all?

TheQuietThings: Hey man, I have no knowledge in this tuning stuff. What does the ZPI 11:1 pistons do actually? And for tuning, are you talking about those E-manage/computer gadget stuff?

What higher compression pistons actually do, is compress more air into each cylinder, threfore making more power.

Generally - more air makes more power.

Right now, the tC's pistons take in 9.6 parts of gasoline, and 1 part of air when each cylinder combusts.

If were were to replace the pistons with higher compression pistons, each cylinder would have more air to make power with. But the problem with that, lies in the type of gasoline you will have to use.

The octane rating on gasoline is a measure of how much pressure it can handle before it fully combusts. With 87 octane, the gasoline will be combusting too early, and as a result, you'll get decreased performance, and gas mileage.

However, higher octane will be able to correct that problem. For example, 93 octane takes more pressure to fully combust than 87 octane.

The next problem we have is the timing. Youre going to need some kind of emanage to keep each cylinders timing correct with the change in octane and compression ratio. I have no personal experience with any of the emange out there, but it is definetely a necessity.

If the emange doesnt include a air fuel controller, [which it should!], then i also suggest getting a SAFC [standalone air fuel controller]. The Scion tC runs pretty rich, which means there is a lot more fuel than completely necessary. This is done for safety reasons, as it is unlikely an engine will detonate on a rich mixture. However, leaning out the mixture [or adding more air] will yield better performance [decrease in gas mileage too].

Once I got an auto I knew I wouldn't be getting it for power or speed but merely daily driving. That's partially why I haven't done any mods. When I do make mods, though, it'll be all suspension and tires... trd shocks and springs, sway bar set, spacers, not sure about tires... but i'd rather burn through my stockies first... handling > speed in my book...

I at least want to smoke them ricers out there :P Where I live, a lot of integs/civics with fart cans.

As a matter of fact, my friend's friend wants to "race" me. There is this open drag course that I go to every saturday for a $10 race fee. I've never raced, yet.

He has a CRX with a Civic SI motor (I believe year 1996-1997) and he dyno'd at 150+ hp. lol.

Hmm, do you think I'll be able to beat him with only an Injen CAI and a Megan Catback? His car is definately lighter than mine..

Sorry for going off topic, just want an answer.. Thanks again.

I at least want to smoke them ricers out there :P Where I live, a lot of integs/civics with fart cans.

As a matter of fact, my friend's friend wants to "race" me. There is this open drag course that I go to every saturday for a $10 race fee. I've never raced, yet.

He has a CRX with a Civic SI motor (I believe year 1996-1997) and he dyno'd at 150+ hp. lol.

Hmm, do you think I'll be able to beat him with only an Injen CAI and a Megan Catback? His car is definately lighter than mine..

Sorry for going off topic, just want an answer.. Thanks again.

nope, well, assuming he is a decent driver. That car is light, and is dynoing more than you.

Oh, and he's stick.

Ic. thanks.

About how much would I have to pay if I was to trade in my car for a manual ?

About how much would I have to pay if I was to trade in my car for a manual ?

Depends on the condition of your car, how many miles are on it, and the year.

However, you lose about 20% the value of the car once you drive it off the lot, and about 1200 for every year owned.

Take how much you have left to pay on the car, and subtract what the car is worth, thats how much you will lose by trading the car in.

[assuming of course you get what the car is worth, dealerships will often offer less than what the car is worth so they can make money when they resell it]

you'll just get smoked, maybe a 5 seed would put up a fight somewhat

Well, its a 2006 BSP. Close to 8000 Miles. Has a dent on the driver side =X and a few scratches.

Like I said before, why worry what the ricers think? Build your car to your comfortable performance level. Honda's, "ricers" play a different ballgame. As if they have something to prove. Heck, when i bought the xB, I couldn't get away from the ricers. As if they FINALLY found a hot car they could beat. I say screw them and don't sink to their level. My wife has a tC(auto) so I am a bit familiar with it. We just lowered it and did a mild sound system. Yeah, We took a stab at each other once with my daily, a 93 Dodge Daytona V-6 5 speed. My advice to you comes from my build-up of that car. Here's why. This particular Daytona came with the 150(maybe)hp and 174ft/lb's of torque. I never really cared for the 6000 redline I could never reach for the car ran out of breathe at 4500 rpm's. I saw stock dyno sheet that proved the case. So I added a cat-back exhaust at 2.5 inches. This cat-back is almost a full exhaust cuz the cat is at the engine. The car got blatty( I expected that) and the work was done at a shop in Chula Vista on Broadway when I lived there. Redline FX I believe was the place. Of course this was 1997. I returned to Chicago with a wealth of knowledge and fabbed a CAI I could convert to a short ram. CAI is better for the car cuz it like to get hot, but man the short ram flies off the line. I pulled the A/C and added the underdrive pulley. I also did Mopar springs, Koni shocks and a rear sway bar. I surprisingly killed the wifes car from idle. Burned thru three gears and got two cars ahead. Now, this car is not fast on the highway, I may have only got 5 hp at most with a few extra ft/lb's. But the car revs clear to fuel cut so fast I don't expect it. I can now hit redline. But I did build a car so fun to drive with it's handling, I could autocross it if I wanted to and be good at it. The car has become more of a corner carver now. Not many cars can hang with me because I have built something that uses it's power wisely. So that's what I mean. I don't care if a Honda wants to race. I just put it in my terms. I'll see you at the twisties! catch me if you can! Oh yeah, I upgraded my front brakes with EBC rotors and pads and did a disc conversion on the back. The car is everything R/T minus the turbo engine. And of course I have nice rims and sticky Dunlop FM901' sized 235/45's. So make the car good for you and not good for beating Honda's. There's a lot of work in that and you don't have the funds for that now. Take time learning the car and it's potential and you will have beat most ricers out there. Later. :yawn:

Also take into account many ricersare dumbass kids w/o class. Everyday i have a rice rocket civic trying to race me (auto) them a stick. And everytime i still win. Its all about knowing your, taking care of it and memorize its limits. Many civic owners that are young and who like to taunt are those wiht no experience and no respect for theiir cars. With my auto ive leanned how to easily manipulate the tranny to achive the power i want even though all i have is cai on it. track races of coarse we are gonna loose but that shouldnt be our main concern. it should be to have a car that reflects our personality and defines but doesnt make us. Its also a waste to trade in for a m/t because first of all we paid more, 2nd we lose around 5 grand, thrid they dont count any extras that are on the car. with the money you would have lossed you could have gone f/i or a sweet 14 s auto with a ton of performance parts and still have change in ur pockets and be debt free. EnderSavesTheDay and BlackOnBlacktc have seen what i can do with auto. The most important thing to make your car go fast is skill. W/o that any mods you do are pointless. e.g. (in an 87 maxima stick i have beaten an s2k, 97 civic si, 93 ford mustang, and all those were stick with more power, but the drivers were yound and inexperinced so i smoked them easily through all the gears). Spend money on driving lessons and it will be worth more than 20 extra hp.