I am planning on fabrication some brake cooling ducts for the front brakes using the space for the fog lights. Any ideas or comments on how to do this properly. And I am going to add some big brakes once they come out.
05-23-2004, 11:14 PM
I always thought brake cooling happened after the wheels... the ducts are usually found on wide front fenders directly behind the wheel...
I guess it's just conventional and it is an artistic standard?
05-23-2004, 11:19 PM
I was talking about something similar to that of the c5 corvette. If you look on the front bumper theres an opening if you take the wheel off you can see the cooling duct. It curves around and directs forced air onto the brake rotor. This helps cool down the brakes and prevents warping/fade.
05-23-2004, 11:44 PM
this isn't something that is gonna affect performance, so I am curious as to why you want to do this...
but here's some logic... a certain amount of horsepower (yes, horsepower) is required to reduce your speed... so if you need 1000hp to stop from 60mph to 0 in 150ft, this is what you are asking of your brakes... brakes perform by their design, so the brakes in the car are probably designed to stop the car from 60 in about 125ft, so they probably put out about 2000 hp... (these numbers are just rough guesses)...
but brakes are temperamental, literally... they want a specific temp range to operate on... so they would like to see temps that stay below say... 1000 degrees... so every time you push your brakes, the temp will climb, but because the discs are designed by a group of engineers, they dump their heat as fast as they can... racers are driving monster cars on a very twisty course and they have major horsepower, so they can leave a corner accelerate and then need to scrub their speed again... and in racing conditions you can see the discs reaching temps of more like 1800 degrees, this is evident in their glowing red...
these numbers are all off the top of my head, but they are their to explain what is going on... so this ends the answer time and begins my question time...
#1 - what kind of driving are you intending to do that you believe will require cooling on the brakes??
#2 - what kind of horsepower mods are you planning that will be able to accelerate your car to the point that constant scrubbing of speed will overheat the existing brakes??
#3 - why deviate from the design that all road going cars use?? not even an M3 comes with race style cooling ducts, it merely has a slot that allows air from the front directly to the wheel well...
I am just trying to be thought provoking... hopefully we can see some feedback on this thread...
05-24-2004, 02:21 AM
Rotors do warp on heavy braking... Pack a few friends in the car mash the brakes and if you're lucky enough you will get some brake problems in the future...
Making brakes better would be the same as making suspension upgrades and so fourth... They spent millions making sure the car would handle under normal situations, but obviously we know there is room for improvement... Brakes and suspension usually go hand in hand...
As to why you would need cooling on a car like this would be beyond me... Same goes for why you would need to drop a car 2" and get shocks so stiff you can stand a building on it...
As far as I know, warping don't happen over time... It's usually from one HUGE stomp of the brakes under extreme conditions... So cooling won't actually help you here if thats what you're after since there is no cooling done in that short amount of time it takes the rotors to warp...
However, cooling helps keep brake fade to a minimum... Still, if you drive a MT, and know how to downshift... Everyday driving would show no evidence of brake fading at all... If you drive AT and decend down a lot of hills on a regular basis, you might want to get better brakes, not really brake cooling...
Still, I would consider it a cosmetic mod more than a helpful one... There are WAY better methods to cool brakes than air ducts...
05-24-2004, 03:29 AM
for tractor-trailer truck racing they actually carry a tank full of water and literally every time they step on the brakes, water is squirted directly on the pads to help ease the temps...
I can't remember the amount of water they went through a race, but it was much more than I thought would be needed... somewhere on the order of 50 gallons...
05-24-2004, 05:38 AM
I do alot of mountain driving and alot of stop and go driving. I plan on getting a complete big brake upgrade for the front wheels as well as stainless steel brake lines. By having these ducts there is an extra level of protection. Also this is going to be a very inexpensive mod. So might as well. I am going to be making or just finding one of these kits that will mate to the big brake
It basically pushes air into the middle of the rotor where it runs through the veins and is pushed out of the brake rotor. Kind of like an air cooled engine. The main purpose of this is to keep the brakes cooler and in turn prevents fading and eventually warping. The brake kit itself is going to be very expensive and this is just one way to help them last longer and not warp.
05-24-2004, 06:26 AM
okay, but my bad on the M3 reference...
but what about your push of braking force to the front, won't you be causing a more hazardous vehicle by breaking down the balance of force??
if you can lock up your tires, then your brakes aren't the issue... I understand the fading issue, but is bigger better?? I'll give you the more mass arguement, but that only lasts a few seconds...
you could easily fab up a duct similar to the autocross style, only testing will tell the facts...
05-24-2004, 07:10 AM
This is what im talking about right here---http://www.westcoastcorvette.com/shop_online/prod_detail.cfm?id=1262&ref=froogle
I want to mate this to someting like the one for the m3 in the pic. Yes it is going to send most of the braking pressure to the front but that is the whole point. When you hit the brakes the car is going to want to dive forward more than stock. This is where an upgraded supension comes into play. Im planning on installing a system and that is going to put a larger load on the brakes. I believe the tC is going to come with electronic brake distribution so the rears are going to be getting more brake force than usually because of the weight of the system.
05-24-2004, 07:16 AM
Check this out its only 18 bucks for each duct. There is going to be other stuff needed and im searching for it. So far the total is 40 bucks.
I need to get a good look at the inner fender well and the inside of the bumper to see exactly what type of ducts would be needed. Heres another that might work as part of the system.
Check out the aluminum spindle ducts. Thats pretty much what id be working with using a duct from the fog light holes then using 3" tubing to the spidle ducts.
05-24-2004, 08:16 AM
heres a pic of the duct for the foglight hole.
They cost 19 bucks each. Looks like the whole project is going to cost no more than 150 bucks, including the duct hoses front bumber inlet ducts, spindle ducts and all hardware.[/url]
09-12-2006, 05:20 AM
Has anyone noticed the vent opening at the bottom of the windshield on the passenger side. This air duct seems to feed a duct straight to the transmission or something, is it actually helping or could it be diverted to maybe help brakes or direct more air to the CAI?
I have been looking around for answers to this and this topic seems close enough.
Anyways we are talking about using the aerodynamics that the car already has and shifting the distribution of internal airflow to get a slight difference in performance
09-12-2006, 02:16 PM
Why not use the Weapon R Ram air kit and adapt it to the brakes not the intake. It uses the fog light as well.
09-12-2006, 03:20 PM
blablapimp - i think that's for water drainage... I don't think it goes into the engine compartment - it should go into the wheel wells and out.
09-12-2006, 04:16 PM
Well after extensive debating with myself, I do admit its probably for water drainage but it empties on the inside of the engine next do the wheel well, so in sunny day scenario it actually is venting a little the gearbox, or something around that( sorry for not knowing the term). With a little help and creativity Im sure someone has already put good use to that air pathway( even though we know its for water to go down in and not sit in the car)
09-17-2006, 10:51 AM
hey trdcamry, have you gotten all the components for your brake cooling system yet? i'm sure a lot of people are interested in a nice simple system if you took all the effor already to research the parts currently out in the market.
i don't think people should jump in these posts to criticize upgrades. if you don't understand why someone would want to cool their brakes then just ask rather than criticize.
09-18-2006, 03:31 AM
Let's see. I was thinking of doing this also. 6 feet per side at least (to be sure) of durable but flexible duct. Cut the wheel well shield and put the duct thru there and direct the incoming air to the calipers? As simple as that, but maybe buy other pieces so it can be pretty? :D
almost all FWD cars are made so that most of their braking power is distributed to the front than the rear. this is brake bias. the reason for this is so that the car can understeer more than oversteer. in the real world, your average joe can react easier to avoid understeer than correct an already existing oversteer. The average car enthusaist or FWD race car driver, would want the car to have more oversteer. There's a trade off for each. Your entry speed is severely compromised in an understeering FWD vehicle, but at the same time, you can back off on the gas to correct it resulting in a slower exiting speed. In a vehicle with more oversteer, your entry speed can be greater, and too much oversteer can be corrected by counter steering and applying even acceleration or more when needed to straighten out the backend. at least this way, you can test the speed limits of your car's handling.
so back on topic, more braking power is always a good thing. if you think your brakes are too powerful that they are locking up your tires, your ABS has a problem. In my opinion, the mark of a good driver is one that can brake to the point where their tires are just about to lock up and then let off on the brakes just enough to maintain traction to unleash all the potential your tires and brakes have to offer. so I think brake ducts are a great addition to any car. Afterall, there's things we can do to our brakes even though they are 1 pot pistons. we can change the fluid to ATE or better, SS braided lines, get some Hawk HPS plus, and brembo slotted or blank rotors. Personally, i run AXXIS ultimates (ceramic) in the rear, and Hawk HPS in the front. Also you should only brake in a straight line, not during a corner, so even if tires do lock up, it shouldn't be a BIG problem. just let off on the brakes a little and keep driving.
08-31-2007, 06:34 PM
I do alot of mountain driving and alot of stop and go driving.
What mountains you like to drive? This mod would definitely help keep the brakes cooler! :) I enjoy driving Glendora Mountain and Glendora Ridge Rd.