Dang I've been looking at many different cars. From nissans, hondas, toyotas... and every single one of them has something illegal on thier car.

And one of these owners actually scorned another car owner for putting legal parts on his car instead of illegal parts, and then called him a retard in the tuning world. (the part being a 50 state legal header, and a race header).

Seriously, what is with people?

Actually what is with the Laws? The USA is becoming a Nanny state. Im sorry but you cannot go thru the day without violating some law. I think a lot of laws need to be dumped from the books

Yes everyone breaks laws everyday. Including myself. 90% of the time. Its un-intentional (speeding is usually the majority of that 10%), the rest are really un-intentional.
By no means it doesn't make it right, or okay.

But people don't set out with breaking laws in mind when they wake up in the morning (of course 99.9% of the time speeding is in mind).

But when you put illegal parts on a car. You know they are illegal, and you are fully aware by putting them on your car you are breaking the law. Often with the mind set (No one will check for about 5 years. Or, Its not illegal if you don't get caught)

Its not my car, and I am not concerned with the doings and going ons of other people.

But I am concerned with the lack of integrity that I am observing.
When I say "Lack of integrity" I am speaking of people knowingly doing anything wrong (Not just illegal parts on cars etc) and having no remorse what so ever for it.

i don't know what your saying but the laws are redicioulous so i don't feel bad breaking them

i mean techinically a header isn't legal on my car or my 10% tint for that matter...

theres enough other stupid ____ that goes on legal/non leagal for me to be worried about minor things like my tint/header...

:eyebrow:

^^^
This is what I'm talking about. While I understand what you are saying. I don't see the grey area other people see.

Its all black and white to me. Right is right, and wrong is wrong.

A white lie is still a lie.

While the grey areas and white lies usually don't hurt anyone. I'm just trying to understand the trend.

Even if I think about illegal modding my car. It usually stops there. and I don't have the nerve to purchase or install it on my car.

Kudos to those who can, but i guess its just the way I am.

I guess I am just wary of "The one time".

I don't know what to tell you, Tim. I hope that life gets better for you and you don't stress too much about the "black and White" way you see the world.

What might be Illegal in your state might not be in mine.

wierd.. anyway...

i'm compltely ok with the illegality of it
i don't do illegal things with my car...
if i get caught for my tint or my header and the cop writes me a ticket.. so be it i will pay it

thats the price i pay for my passion ...
big deal...

do you seriously mean to tell me you have NEVER driven over the speed limit.. even ONE mile per hour... ?!?!
if you have that is illegal...

I already posted that I myself have broken laws. And besides speeding, in my adult life I have never intentionally broke a law (When i was in highschool and what not, is a totally different story.)

And here its not just a ticket. With our "Drag-net" taskforce. Its an impound, fine, and possible suspension or revoking your liscence (for repeat offenders)

I'm a yes or no, right or wrong kind of guy. I know of the grey area. I just can't get myself to participate. .... Maybe I have OCD. Anyone know of any good perscriptions?

You need to remember that its different in other states. I dont think any other states are as restrictive as California. If I lived in CA, I dont think I would mod my car at all.

You need to remember that its different in other states. I dont think any other states are as restrictive as California. If I lived in CA, I dont think I would mod my car at all.

so true... thank god for not living in cali... :bow:

i have to swap out my CAI and HIDs before inspection so my car will pass.

omg NC has "inspections"??? Why do they care if you have a CAI??? HIDs I can understand because some people think they are hazardous, but CAI???

^^ the cai removes the charcoal filter on your car, hence illegal. in CA you cannot make your cars exhaust louder than stock. period. if you put an axel back on your car. you are illegal. Now if it is a factory installed part different story. But there are so many people that do it cops usually don't care unless it is obnoxious. Technically if you are under like 93 db your exhaust is legal......but it isn't if your car was quieter to begin with. Better put your stocker exhaust on in a hurry.

i bagged my xb and it is illegal...so what? if i get in trouble i pay the consequences...

what alot of the laws that are created in regards to modifications is mostly CARB issues, they also allow for police officers probable cause to pull you over. Most of the time if you are driving with the flow of traffic, and dont do anything to your car that calls immediate attention your fine. example, if you see a truck with airbags and he is operating them normally, not dragging frame at 75 down the freeway you proabably wont get hassled. and regards to nemesis post, he is 100% right, you may be able to get away with it, but legally speaking any modifications other then what is considered factory is technically illegal, and if you get the kind of officer that just is having a bad day you can be in a up a creek.

Most of the other laws pretain to DOT certification, unless DOT has certified you part you really are taking a risk according to them, the part has not been tested by DOT and may be unpredictable or possibly unsafe, now how true that is, is totally debatable.

i have seen police officers pull people over for just having a wing too large, or windsheild banner decal, or even crap hanging from the rearview mirror and cited for driving with an obstructed view.

if your in california look up the vehicle code book it has everything in there you cannot do and cant do, and if you do do it, you should know what you are getting into to begin with.

and Timmy, you talk about "Dragnet" my neighbor is a CHP officer, and has told me they have a directive "if it looks like a moddified car, then it is a moddified car" and they can pull you over for it, and then go down the vehicle code book and cite you out, they only need one reason to pull you over, and usually it is your exhaust. My neighbor told me that if you can hear it at idle, then that is probable cause to pull you over.......
it is not always the under throttle noise they are looking at, now if your driving a clean car, without primer or what you may think is a ricer you proabably are safe, atleast in fresno county, now in other counties they may be more aggressive.

also alot of CHP officers are being certified as B.A.R level technicians, so if they pull you over, they most likely know what the mod is, and what it does, who made it, and the cost.

all i have to say is keep your nose clean and you will be fine.

And due to all the honda ricers out there. Cops know what to look for, so hoping he doesn't check isn't in the picture.

Even if I move out of state. I will still use the CARB standards. Because it makes modifying your car more challenging and I like a challenge.

I've said it before. A california street legal 12 second car out of a 4 cyl, impresses me much more than any 10 second car.

^^CA. V.C. 27151 No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the motor.
You need to take that magna flow exhaust off your car if you want to be legal.

I break the law with my car all the time.

I do it because I'm evil, and so are all of you.

(P.S. WHAT THE HELL IS THIS POST DOING IN MOTORSPORTS ANYWAY?!)

yeah, alot of the ricers really ruined it for the hobby..........

I dont have a charcoal canister on my stock intake. Never did have one. Do they add that on in California?

Thats funny that they will not let you have an xA with mods but will let you drive a big old stinking useless suv suckin up more gas and puttin out particulates like crazy. Its like the HOV lanes here. I cant drive my Metro in them, but people riding harleys are allowed, even though Im getting better mileage than them.

This pretty dumb. If you want to mod your car and take a chance of getting caught then just pay the ticket. Dont make it out to be some horrible thing. Michigan pretty much is the opposite of Cali. Other than tint pretty much anything goes and nobody checks. Some cops are just ___ holes most have better things to worry about than making sure your car is legal.

yeah, i removed the charhoal filter on my Tc, i have never seen another car with one......so it went bye bye. as for paying the fine......

^^CA. V.C. 27151 No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the motor.
You need to take that magna flow exhaust off your car if you want to be legal.is that only in CA?

^^ that is our vehicle code just for CA not sure about NC , but you guys probably have some sort of noise pollution law.

my car's completely legal :rofl: :lalala:

but just dont drive stupid, and you won't get coppped for your parts



i heard cops r online now......

^^ yeah you are sooooooo stock!!! hahahaha you rebel law breaker!!!!

I'm aware of the noise violations and exhausts, But the magnaflow exhaust can not be heard at idle. and can not be heard cruising. At WOT thats another story.

yep, that is when they nail you............usually on take off. but trust me if you can hear it at idle its gonna be loud, what ____es me off is the harleys with thier fart makers, and how nobody does anything about them.

my car's completely legal :rofl: :lalala:

but just dont drive stupid, and you won't get coppped for your parts



i heard cops r online now......


yep, alot of departments scour the boards to find out where peeps are racing and such.

yep, that is when they nail you............usually on take off. but trust me if you can hear it at idle its gonna be loud, what ____es me off is the harleys with thier fart makers, and how nobody does anything about them.

thats what i wonder too :tap:

Yah cops do search threads and bust people that way.

Did yah hear or watch the news (I think it was last weekend) The coppers did a joint crack down on blackstone and cited like 25 vehicles in one night.

You should see what it's like to drive in Nevada. Everyone here (including me) likes to speed and I seldom see anyone get pulled over for it. If anything, it's like you should speed here because people get pulled over for doing 46 in a 45 mph zone but can do 60-80 mph in a 45 mph zone and never get pulled over for it.

The freeway is practically an autobahn for me as there are rarely any cops on there. And I rarely ever see any nice tuner cars in this state so I wonder........ :tap:

I just did some research and now I know what your talking about
I DO NOT DRIVE AN ILLEGAL CAR!!!!!!!!
My car has all its papers. It applied for a visa and is on its way to being an american car. It didnt sneak across the boarder and try to take advantage of our licensing system.
It is here with all the other wonderfully legal cars, assimilating and making america better.

For those of you driving Illegal cars. You will be caught and your car deported. One day maybe while getting an oil change, or on the side of the road BANG your car gets towed and deported. All becuase you wanted to scam the system.

Think your car before trying this. Have you no shame?
I cant stand Law breakers. Your cars are making it difficult for all the legal cars here

^^^
Thanks for your constructive post. Your views have been noted.. and promptly put aside.

Thank you drive through.

Edited

Ill just leave it be.
Timmy its april 1st mmmkay

edited again

timmyt says
But when you put illegal parts on a car. You know they are illegal, and you are fully aware by putting them on your car you are breaking the law. Often with the mind set (No one will check for about 5 years. Or, Its not illegal if you don't get caught)

Its not my car, and I am not concerned with the doings and going ons of other people.

But I am concerned with the lack of integrity that I am observing.
When I say "Lack of integrity" I am speaking of people knowingly doing anything wrong (Not just illegal parts on cars etc) and having no remorse what so ever for it.

For some reason you remind me of brett
http://digilander.libero.it/carlito/jules3.jpg

Why you even worried about wahts on or in others people cars? Did some one die and make you Vehicle inspector?

I'm not anal about other people car for one.

I am not comprehending how people don't take integrity seriously. Because in the end, all a person has is his/her word.

I used the cars as an example, because this is a car enthusiest forum.

And I personally belive if people are so aloof with telling white lies and minor grievances. Then they are certainly capable of larger ones.

Example. I see a person take a 20 dollar bill off of the ground, that someone just passing buy dropped. The person that finds the 20 dollars, instead of returning it to the person pockets the cash and goes about his business.

Technically he isn't hurting anyone, but if I had that same person in my home. I definitly wouldn't leave him alone with the cookie jar.

P.S. Mods I just come to realize I should have posted this in perhaps off-topic cafe. If you could move it accordingly that would be great.

Wow, where to begin with this thread, Timmy.

I mean, laws are laws and if you don't follow them you are *gasp* breaking the law. Guess what, it happens. And for good reasons as much as bad. Ever heard of the Jim Crow laws? THose were bad laws. Laws against murder. I'd say those are good laws. The most simpel fact is that despite your world view or mine, everything is shades of grey, because circumstances chan change whether laws are good/bad, moral/unjust, whatever you wanna call it. I wouldn't want to live in a society where infractions of any/all laws were without interpretation(sp).

They call those places dictatorships, monarchy's, and so on. WHere dissent and discussion do not exist, and often (but not always) lead to extremely repressive societies.

This is not to EVEN mention the fact that many of our law makers (at least in the states) are fing idiots. Look at some of the laws made throught our nations history and you'll see just how laughable some of them are. Should we be fined/jailed for 'old' laws still on the books, that are all but oficially forgotten? I think not.

When they start representing the voting body in this country properly (read: get rid of the electoral college), and I can actually begin VOTING on laws that get passed without my say, I'd be more than happy to follow them.

Isn't happening any time soon, champ, so you'll just have to do one of 2 things: 1) deal with it and move on, or 2) don't deal with it, but still move on.

I'll get off my soap box now.

I totally disagree with CARB laws, I say if it passes emissions it passes emissions. Who cares about some numbers on a card or plate.

But I fully support street racing laws.

But regardless of what I support or I shun. The consequences and repricusions have no discrimination.
And to take one's word, as just a bargaining chip, or a means to an end, whatever that end may be. Is just really sad to myself personally.

14TH....
C'mon. You really need to get the car parts out of your head.

I already stated I was using the car modifications as an example on a car enthusiest forum.

I really want to know why people feel they are the ones who determin what is a good law, what is a bad law, and choose to abide by them on that basis.

But also expect to be shown the same respect and be treated as an adult, when they can't follow the simple rules, because they choose not to, and feel that as long as no one sees, or no one discovers, it is perfectly fine and okay to do so.

Wow, we should lock this thread before it just gets stupid crazy in here.

TimmyT, man, I'd love to go round and round with you on this topic but I find myself unable to clearly identify WHAT it is exactly you're trying to shed light on.

Is it car laws? Laws and lawfulness in general? The preceived degeneration of the social fiber where you live? Gimme something to zero in on, chief.

TimmyT its a bad choice to use as an example
We are car entusiasts of one caliber or another. I really want to go, 20% tint on my rear windows and 35 on my fronts . Law here says you cant. They site safety but thats BS its about a Police officer being able to look into your car. I talked to a police officer She told me they only enforce tint laws when teenagers (probably blacks too) are involved.

Now i want to totally disregard this law becuase my belief is Its BS. I wont do it not because I fear the Law. Only Cause I cant afford the ticket.

On this issue I feel moral superiority.

Ok here is a non car related question to you

Jay Walking.
Walking across the street not at a corner. Agaisnt the law. YOu going to do it? You have known since you were a kid its against the law. Do you feel bad when you do it. Or see other people do it?

^^^
Thanks for your constructive post. Your views have been noted.. and promptly put aside.

Thank you drive through.

You said something about respect. Anything in the statement above smack of respect towrds me? You are a very judgemental person. Maybe you didnt reazlise that
In the above post you comment I am irrelevant.

It was clearly a attempt at a humourous post. Did you feel the need to demean me?

Really take care of you own and you will be allright. If it doesnt affect you in a negative way let things go. You will live longer.

Ok I am a retired street racer on my way to being a professional drag racer, am considered an amature right now, not enough track time events. ok I drove around the streets with a 600hp+ honda for a good 4 months while breaking in the engine, but the previous engine was 448hp and 309tq on the last dyno which the car was daily driven. Everyone doesn't understand what we go through out here in cali unless you live out here. I ran the street races in the antelope valley where I live for the longest time. I didn't get busted at the last raid but I was there and left before it happend after warning all my friends in different clubs, 144 tickets 7 car impounded and so on. I was pulled over atleast 3 times a week when they opend the new police station out here, since I have had my box havn't been pulled over, have a full exhast highflow cat back with no resonator cops don't even look at me. So I don't know what you are worried about. I don't mean to bash and stuff but when someone say you stupid honda's ruined it for us that is wrong. Stupid people ruined it for the rest of us. it's call there is a time and a place for everything, including racing and driving fast. Oh not to mention I never got any tickets for anything other than no front licence plate or stupid ____ like fuzzy dice in the mirror except for one about modified exhaust and I told this young cop that it is my race car and I was just out to clear the engine for a mile or two and he said just drive it home. not to mention I have over $30,000 of illegal parts under the hood! no joke here.

If you took the time to study the original constitution and amendments that do not break the original intent of the heart of it, you would find that we are living under and extremely bastardized version of what this country was founded for. In other words, MOST of the current laws are in direct violation of our constitutions original intent.

What can we do, nothing.

But at least we can logically and reasonably look at the world around us and see and smell the BS that has become LAW in this country.

Just because it is a law has nothing to do with it being right or wrong. laws are written every day to take just a little more away from us and give the power to those over us.

Case in point, I lived in So Cal for many years where tens of thousands of gross poluting cars came over the border every day, unchecked, unsually no insurance, many not safe to be on the road. But my turbo Matrix with exceptionally clean exhaust was pulled over for a loud exhaust that honestly was dead quite, got a ticket, went to a referee, saw the judge, put on probation for a year and for what? Because I was an easy target and politically correct to go after?? F'ing A RIGHT!

I spent a very long two days making my car "legal", another day at the Referee and in court, that night started putting F'ing turbo back on:)

Fine thing was I never drove the car on the street unless to a race or show, it ran very clean(unlike the thousands of old muscle cars in CA, or all the damm loud arse stinky Harlesy and tens if not hundreds of thousands of out of country cars) on the road.

Since the laws are so politically correct and out of touch with reality, I obey the ones that make sense and get away with as much as I can about the rest of the BS.

If you do not understand the difference, pull it out and get some fresh air:):)

Rick

^^^
All i can say is Thats Farking Kalifornia

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.

That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves.

In regards to automobiles, it is well known within my state that it is illegal to modify your car in ANY way, shape or form. I am sure that it this way in many states. You can call this a means for government to protect the people against illegal street racers or as a whittling away of our individual freedoms.

To get directly to your point, our society has created such a network of laws that it is impossible not to break some law every day- honestly. We are quickly achieving a police state, where not only what you say/do can endanger you, but also what you do NOT say or do.

Case in point- the government is currently trying to pin the death penalty on Zacarias Moussaoui because of what he did not say.

While I strongly beleive he should go to jail for life, the government seems to know no bounds in keeping us all "safe from the terrorist threat."

Really, we all have bigger things to worry about.

The example of car modification was to put in a light we can relate to.

But it was just that. An example.

The question is:
How?
How can people break laws, however minor or insignificant they may be, and haven't a second thought about it.

Being retired military. I still do not walk on the grass anywhere due to habit.
Military guys should know what I mean.

I am retired miltary as well, if I did not break any rules there I could not of done my job very well many times. I also broke a few laws to get the job done better, faster and for less money. Which is right, laws that make no sense or breaking them to do things right and better serve my country;)

(P.S. I always put my guys and my job ahead of my career and I paid for that but would not change a thing as I accomplished more that just about anybody I met during my career and am proud of myself for doing so;)

Rick

Being retired military. I still do not walk on the grass anywhere due to habit.
Military guys should know what I mean.

Being Out of the navy now for the last 20 odd years. I always walk all over the grass
That of course being cause of signs in norfolk virignia saying
DOGS AND SAILORS KEEP OFF GRASS

I am retired miltary as well, if I did not break any rules there I could not of done my job very well many times. I also broke a few laws to get the job done better, faster and for less money. Which is right, laws that make no sense or breaking them to do things right and better serve my country;)

Ahh yes the days of supply chain deals
BTW you can visit a site i help admin on called
www.usscapodanno.org

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/1924/me17lt.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

In no way grouping you into this general description as just a few posts on a forum do not give enough info to " pass judgement" so to speak. BUT, in my experience, those that followed the rules exactly did so because they derived their strength from the rules instead of from within them selves.

Again, not pointing any fingers buddy, three of us are retired military here and those that are not may never understand the sacrifices we made to serve our country, even if we did so in peace time or not. I have spent alot of time around the Air Force, Coast Guard and Marines and have alot of respect for them all, retired Navy myself.

Rick

The question is:
How?
How can people break laws, however minor or insignificant they may be, and haven't a second thought about it.

Because some of are not mindless robots, Timmy, and enjoy the freedoms you and others have supplied us with.

Are you just recently discharged or something? This is not a jab at you at all but an honest question because you remind me of two of my good friends who were Airborn and served in Bosnia. I can understand how you've come to be this way, but its way different in the civi world man. When we don't do what we're told, people don't necessarily die.

I come from a military family, going back some 4 generations, and have lived on a miltary post all my life. Except for now where I am chapter 31 medically retired and going back to school.

So follow the rules was thouroghly emphasized in my child hood and transition to adult.

ACAP'ing didn't do anything to remove things that have been common place since I was an infant.

Are you just recently discharged or something? This is not a jab at you at all but an honest question because you remind me of two of my good friends who were Airborn and served in Bosnia. I can understand how you've come to be this way, but its way different in the civi world man. When we don't do what we're told, people don't necessarily die.

I know the facts, but honestly it sounds more like some one fresh out of boot camp to me

1. The army doesn't have "Boot camp"
2. If you knew what a chapter 31 is then 1 doesn't even apply.

You know the facts, and once again a post totally off topic and not constructive.

This military business is all off topic.

My POV is that CARB laws are good ideas but they've turned into a beaurocratic nightmare like many other things.

Getting a header, IMO, should be illegal if it doesn't have a cat. But if a new one is added and it still passes emissions shouldn't it be legal then? Eh, oh well. Like RAAMaudio, I listen to the laws that make sense to me. It's a little irresponsible, I admit, but it makes sense to me :D

An example of my logic is that I'm not getting a header anytime soon but I do plan on getting an s-pipe back exhaust with a new hi-flow cat. In that way I don't make any more emissions AND I get my performance. I'm also getting the Turbonetics turbo if it passes CARB so I can get the kit with the cat.

That's just what makes the most sense to me/

Against the law to jay walk. Do you do it? Why?
If your so worried about people breaking innocuos laws. Use your rehab funds to get into police science. Become a cop and protect us from these scurillous illegal parts users

14th you are seriously mis understanding this thread.

Its not the act of breaking laws. Its the lack of integrity I am concerned with.

After reading all this, what nags at me most, TimmyT, is that you seem to think a crime like using non CARB approved parts is just as indicative of a lack of integrity as street racing, or any other reckless/violent/negligent crime.

On the one hand, you've got (possibly) more particulates being sent into the air, from a car that already has far less emissions than a ton of other things on the road... which doesn't directly harm anyone, any more than they're already being harmed.

On the other hand you've got an activity that not only endangers the life of the person who participates, but also the lives of anyone who might end up in the wrong place at the wrong time when the street racer is doing his thing. (Not to mention the long-run demographics type damage that we all end up paying for in police pull-overs and insurance rates.)

All that being said, it seems like you are more concerned with the rules than you are with common sense. I tend to do my own thinking, because the people who make the laws are just as imperfectly human as the rest of us... I follow my own moral standard, and I've never had trouble with the law.

I guess it comes down to a moral question something like.. "If a man jaywalks in the forest and nobody is around to see it, should he feel guilty?" To which lots of people would answer, "heck no", because most of us have plenty of REAL things to stress about.

If nobody is getting hurt, I don't see how that shows a lack of integrity. Maybe a lack of BAA-A-A-A (sheep noise). It really is shades of grey.

That's my $0.02. Interesting thread btw.

It is the actual act and no remorse.

If i do something that breaks a minor law. (like the carb law, littering etc) its not the breaking the law that irks me.
I could care less if a bubble gum wrapper is chillin' at a park somewhere on the ground.

But I know i did something wrong, even though no one else does, and it compels me to pick up the wrapper and throw it away.

So even though I understand why people do things that break minor laws. I don't understand "how".

"Its a stupid law and it doesn't hurt anyone. So i don't feel bad doing it." just doesn't make sense to me.

Carb and emission laws in california are there for a reason. The quality of air hurts many people especially in california. Since the majority of california is a valley. Air pollutants etc. Linger and don't blow away.

I personally only know one person that is severly affected by air quality, but it only takes that one.

so I definitly don't accept the "it doesnt' hurt anyone" justification to breaking emission laws in california.

And for all the other little laws that people break and "don't hurt anyone". I am sure you could find just that "one" that makes the statement untrue.

And if you revise the statement to "It doesn't hurt anyone I know".

It just turns to be a selfish act and a lack of compassion for your fellow man.

the problem is no companies spend the extra time and money to make legal parts. it looks bad on them , and it hurts the industry. DEEPLY.

It is the actual act and no remorse.

If i do something that breaks a minor law. (like the carb law, littering etc) its not the breaking the law that irks me.
I could care less if a bubble gum wrapper is chillin' at a park somewhere on the ground.

But I know i did something wrong, even though no one else does, and it compels me to pick up the wrapper and throw it away.

So even though I understand why people do things that break minor laws. I don't understand "how".

"Its a stupid law and it doesn't hurt anyone. So i don't feel bad doing it." just doesn't make sense to me.

Carb and emission laws in california are there for a reason. The quality of air hurts many people especially in california. Since the majority of california is a valley. Air pollutants etc. Linger and don't blow away.

I personally only know one person that is severly affected by air quality, but it only takes that one.

so I definitly don't accept the "it doesnt' hurt anyone" justification to breaking emission laws in california.

And for all the other little laws that people break and "don't hurt anyone". I am sure you could find just that "one" that makes the statement untrue.

And if you revise the statement to "It doesn't hurt anyone I know".

It just turns to be a selfish act and a lack of compassion for your fellow man.



actually the VAST aka 90% of parts that are illegal to carb WILL and COULD pass smog tailpipe tests which bottom line is the only thing that matters. but since the company of manufacture didn't pay the california air resources board to the tune of about 30,000 it's illegal.

they are VERY stupid laws. but there's nothing anyone can do but NOT buy anything since about 90% of scion power mods are illegal or scrounge and buy the much more expensive and much more scarce/crappier legal parts.


hell even radical turbo kits and radical supercharger kits on most cars don't change the emissions so much as to go from clean to a polutter. yes it raises them but all stage 1 or equivelent kit's i've ever come across on MULTIPLE cars by MULTIPLE manufacturers PASS the tailpipe tests for our state of cali the MOST strict air quality tests in the world pretty much. at least for auto's.

yet the company greddy for example with their awesome xa/xb superchargers PASS sniff tests . i've seen it happen . lol yet no carb placard oops your CLEAN burning. MUCH better and enjoyable than stock car is 100% illegal and can be toweed , impounded /sold or you can go to jail. up to a 5k fine. , court dates , court fees. it's complete BULLSHEET.

they say theyre doing these non carb parts searches to stop racing yet a car with teh same mods or more mods which is faster than anotehr car is legal yet the slower car is illegal. if they want to use this as a way to stop racers make any and all modifications illegal ..

PERIOD .

ANY AND ALL.

but no. they claim it to be air resources. it is garbage.

makes me want to go get a 90's civic hatch so I can get a LEGAL greddy kit and have 140whp in a 1800 pound car and run 12's or 13's on the street. much more dangerous but hey it's legal.

yeah let that on the street but impound a 14.xx second supercharged xb.

oh and the camaro/mustang guys? i know that it just has to bhappen BUT . I have never seen a cop pull them over for their INSANELY loud exhausts , let alone pop their hoods. yeah that's fair.

nothing like targeting.

and almost all illegal races in sac(at least ) involve at least 1 import and at least 1 domestic............

i'm not saying the domestic muscle car guys don't get hassled but whenever i'm out on a weekend night i'll see at least 4 or 5 imports pulled over with their hoods popped but in the past 6 years or so have only seen 5 domestics pulled over. in a course of 5 or 6 years..........

yet every week I see AT LEAST 10 imports getting their hoods popped.

now i know each case is different aka jackarse driver or what have you but I can't help but see what I see.........

CARB is not a way to test smog. it is not a smog guideline. it is a exemption that basically says the said part does not cause a bad amount of extra pullution. in other words makes companies pay them to test the parts first. but...... if the car passes the tailpipe test which is saying exactly how much of what is going out of the tailpipe....it doesnt matter if the parts on it aren'y carb approved......



it's a huge way for california to make money... the police departments , the air resources board. yes it's good to keep the polutting parts of the street yes .... but what they should do is lower the price and time restraints for a company to make their part legal.


the VAST majority of parts made by the VAST majority of companies would pass the carb testing ( hell they pass smog.....) but the companies of manufacture don't want to delay sales and lose money.... too bad. the only bad part is since cali residents will but the said parts illegal or not the companies will never make it a point to spend the money to retain it's largest market CALIFORNIA.


the companies are from cali. most of their products are going to cali residents yet theyre all ILLEGAL......



it's sad , horrible , bad business , bullsheet , bueraucy(sp)



if california wasn't so beautiful i'd leave.....

oh and for all you non cali guys cops go looking to pull over any and all modified cars in cali. pop the hood and look for any and all illegal parts , components , motors...


some have gone to school and know common swaps , common parts , actually search for hidden stuff.

others don't know a damn thing and will point at a stock valvecover and say "illegal motorswap , shut up son I know it is "

or ' illegal ground wires" yeah...... not.....

others know the basics aka header up front , intercooler , blatant motorswap , intakes , fuel pressure regulator if visible.

all I know is i'm scared. wanna know why? AEM lied to the public by stating their aftermarket xb intake WAS LEGAL when in fact it's been sitting in huge stacks or papers at the California Air Resources Boards paperwork for more than 2 years. STILL pending.

man i hate cali for one reason... the weather, JK...

i hate it for its car laws.

in diamond bar/walnut the sheriff department has gotten wise to motorswaps, particularly de-t's in the s series nissans, so cops will actually go looking for thoses cars so that they can pull them over, same with the old school civics and there b-series swaps and such.

but have you ever seen a cop pulling over say a 65 camaro? no, because they stereotype...our exhaust are loud at times, sure, but wtf? a camaro's dual muffler exhaust are way louder than ours...

how come we get nailed for tiny little swaps, when those damn muscle car boys dont when they drop in big blocks and other various parts, how come they can run nitrous and we cant?

because i hate to say it, but most cops are racist...racist against import cars(haha)

but its true... i have been pulled over numerous times in my old car(96 sentra with sr swap) but i was always chill with the cop so i never had to pop my hood.. and i have been pulled over a couple times in my tC, you know why...because it looks fixed up.

we cant really do anything about this... it is wat it is, and we are pretty much screwed if we want to do anything to our cars.

HOWEVER timmy, is this gonna stop me from puttin I/H/E and pulleys on my car? hell no... i will do what i want when i want, i pay my taxes, i dont live illegally, why cant i do what i want to do to my car if it doesnt hurt anyone? however if you do go fixin up your car, make sure you keep it lookin some what stock, or at least try to stay within the guidelines.. thats why SLEEPERS are the best

The thing is with older cars like my fathers 72 SS el camino. a 65 camaro and all those cars is in california you can do ANYTHING you want to them and drive around, as long as you don't violate any vehicle codes.

Along with my tC. I have a 73 Datsun 240z I am currently restoring and plan on putting an RB in it. The car will be blazing fast and 100% street legal. So I have no qualms about doing anything to it.

This thread should be in offtopic, not Autosports & Technique.

It has nothing to do with autosports nor technique.

that is true double j.


and yes the sr20 swaps are the number one eaisly recognizable/ common swap. the b series swaps yeah but a lot of them ARE legal.

when I brought up camaro's/mustangs i was referring to newer ones......


oh and there was never a 65 maro. the oldest they are is 67's.


trust when i get pulled over for NO REASON. i'm mr nice guy , yes sir , no sir , i'm sorry sir . stuff like that and yep , pop your hood. funny thing is as hard as they've looked never have they seen my header......... it's only stainless steel and all.....


lol but my aem carb pending intake yep. all the time......

well good looking out on reading the thread. I think on page one I personally already mentioned this shoud be moved.

As for the 65 maro. It was just an example. And I was quoting someone else.
Blackonblacktc.. just scroll up and read a lil.

cops are just jerks really. But they have a reason to.

I am not saying the newer maro and mustang owners don't do thier share of dirt. Its just everytime cops catch some stuff going on. An import is involved.

The entire "Loud Exhaust" thing is totally rediculous and I am willing to bet money can be thrown out of the law books.
That or revise it and EVERYONE will hate it :P

If Harlies, older cars running open headers.. etc can get away with being loud and obnoxious (wich in any case, be it muscle car, import, or bike, is) then it should apply to everything.

Its totally bs and a tool law enforcement use to justify illegal search and procedure of vehicles other wise obeying the law.

people will do what they want to there cars, legal and illegal. I wish most of the parts out were legal, but that wont stop me from installing them....and im sure others will feel the same way.
I think the loud exhaust law is retarded unless applied equally to all cars and motorcyles.....