If so could you please tell me what you think of it?
Thanks!

They dont make it for the xB or the xA..

They dont make it for the xB or the xA.. http://www.scionlife.com/store/catHeaders.php Made for the engine. Not sure if it fits. For $890, hell no! That's $600 more than the others on the market. That alone makes it not worth it!

What if it give you more hp than the others? You wonyt know till someone tries it!

What if it give you more hp than the others? You wonyt know till someone tries it!Honestly, out of a 1.5 L HP engine, how much power do you think the best designed header will make? We're talking 2-3 whp more. Does that really justify paying $500 more for it. All you are paying for is the fact it will be warrentied ONLY if installed by a dealer which will run you at least a couple hundred more. So now you are paying $1000 for a 1.5L 108hp engine.

I will stick to DC's header... :D

DC is the one for me also,great price easy installation, bolts right up to factory exhaust. Bill

how do the DC headers treat u,

Kwickslvr,

A properly designed and fabricated header/exhaust will give substantially more HP gain than ANY other N/A bolt on even on a 1.5L engine (displacement makes no difference)! So far there is no header on the market that meets the actual requirements of this engine, they are all too short with poor collector designs. They were made to fit easily with stock exhaust-a convienence header not a performance header. The DC and ELP headers are well constructed but don't make much power due to the design constraints they placed on the development (it must mate to the stock pipe/cat).

Until someone throws the stock system in the dumpster and designs, fabricates and develops a header/exhaust from port to bumper we will have only CRAP (from a HP aspect) to bolt on. Here's the problem- multiple prototypes and dyno time to develope a header/exhaust correctly = big $$$ = little return on investment. It's all about $$$.

ken

Kwickslvr,

A properly designed and fabricated header/exhaust will give substantially more HP gain than ANY other N/A bolt on even on a 1.5L engine (displacement makes no difference)! So far there is no header on the market that meets the actual requirements of this engine, they are all too short with poor collector designs. They were made to fit easily with stock exhaust-a convienence header not a performance header. The DC and ELP headers are well constructed but don't make much power due to the design constraints they placed on the development (it must mate to the stock pipe/cat).

Until someone throws the stock system in the dumpster and designs, fabricates and develops a header/exhaust from port to bumper we will have only CRAP (from a HP aspect) to bolt on. Here's the problem- multiple prototypes and dyno time to develope a header/exhaust correctly = big $$$ = little return on investment. It's all about $$$.

kenAnd thats what the stylis system is for. From the header back and compliments the DC or ELP very well. But even then, you still won't get near the same amount out of a 1.5L 108 engine as compared to a 5.7 L 350 hp engine. Not to mention engine compartment design restricts header design severally on the xB's. Even if an ideal one came out you would only see minor gains above what we have now.

I have to disagree, % wise the gains would be the same if the header/exhaust was designed and developed correctly.

The Stylis manifold back system is good for the available headers but those headers are a very poor design. A correctly designed system would require the cat and resonator to be repositioned farther aft to make room for the appropriate length primary pipes and modern collector design.

The xB has plenty of room for a good header, as does my xA. It would not be able to bolt to the stock exhaust which is a requirement for the current production headers. The average car owner wants something easy which is not what they really need.

Do some serious reasearch on header design and talk to some of the state-of-the-art header designers/fabricators and you will learn much..... I sure did.

ken

Kwickslvr,

A properly designed and fabricated header/exhaust will give substantially more HP gain than ANY other N/A bolt on even on a 1.5L engine (displacement makes no difference)! So far there is no header on the market that meets the actual requirements of this engine, they are all too short with poor collector designs. They were made to fit easily with stock exhaust-a convienence header not a performance header. The DC and ELP headers are well constructed but don't make much power due to the design constraints they placed on the development (it must mate to the stock pipe/cat).

Until someone throws the stock system in the dumpster and designs, fabricates and develops a header/exhaust from port to bumper we will have only CRAP (from a HP aspect) to bolt on. Here's the problem- multiple prototypes and dyno time to develope a header/exhaust correctly = big $$$ = little return on investment. It's all about $$$.

kenAnd thats what the stylis system is for. From the header back and compliments the DC or ELP very well. But even then, you still won't get near the same amount out of a 1.5L 108 engine as compared to a 5.7 L 350 hp engine. Not to mention engine compartment design restricts header design severally on the xB's. Even if an ideal one came out you would only see minor gains above what we have now.


3 WHP gained on a 1.5L is a much bigger deal compared to 3 WHP on a 5.7L so if I gained a mere 3 WHP on my dinky 1.5L I'll consider that as much an accomplishment compared to 30WHP on a 5.7L.

BTW: Toyota Japan advertises the TRD Header for the bB.

3 WHP gained on a 1.5L is a much bigger deal compared to 3 WHP on a 5.7L so if I gained a mere 3 WHP on my dinky 1.5L I'll consider that as much an accomplishment compared to 30WHP on a 5.7L.

I completely agree. But would you rather spend ~$800 for a 3whp gain or ~$200 for a 3whp gain? That's why I wouldn't buy the TRD one. Better to go with the DC or EL Prototype header.

The VVTI 1.5, really only puts out only about 85 to 88 hp. at the wheels.. the car company takes it figures from the flywheel.. The tranmissions soak up about tweenty or so hp. thenadd in AC, power stering, altenator, and the numbers drop lower from there.. 108 horse power is the hook to draw you into buying the car..along with other features and so on .. The TRD products have always been to way expensive for what they are.Unless your sponsored by Trd or toyota,scion.. why evn bother unless money is no obeject. but if thats the case you would be most likey driving something much more expensive.. Its only a dam F#@$%&* econo BOX for christ sake its not a celica or a supra... or a race car.. its just a cool people mover.. not a horse power monster it will never be one etheir... The mild street product that are produced are for improving proformance with in the emisions limts.. If the moter is capable of tunning to 225 hp. at the wheels the emissions would go through the roof.. Race tuned headers can be designed.. but in order to really gain hp. you need to do a lot more than mild street tuned bolt on parts.. Im not saying bolt on parts are bad in fact they work in some cases better than stock. bottom line here is that its a buyers market spend your limted dollars carefully......... XBs for ever... :twisted:

Sorry to dissapoint you but Scions often put out 95hp at the wheels, stock. The trans does NOT soak up 20hp even on the automatic.

As far as emissions vs power- full throttle hp has no effect on emissions out put as far as the law goes because they don't test that at all.

I think 150hp naturally aspriated is a reasonable target for this engine and it could still pass the smog test.... well except for the AFC....

150hp in a xA would be extremely fun!!!

ken

I'd pay $800.00 for a header that you guys don't wann buy. Why? BRAGGIN RIGHTS! :D While everyone gets a DC Sports of EL Prototype header I'll get the rare header to match my rare exhaust. :lol:

8) I have to agree with Kevin, I would rather pay alittle extra and get the TRD parts at least for the engine and suspension upgrades. Why? Don't want to take the chance of loosing the warranties because someone is being anal about my upgrades. I mean, I'm putting in racing seats, audio/visual stuff, and some other interior work. I want to have fun with it, and not worry about it. Plus, TRD logos look plain sweet, don't ya think?

Wild Bill 8)

150whp seems a bit much na unless you 'f' with the head. id assume a full BPU scion 125-130

just got done installing a set of dc sports headers and borla rear exhaust (claim to be catback ?) . anyway! after insatalling them on my wifes anemic thunder cloud it woke it right up!!! no hesitation anymore and much more hp.will be instaling an aem cold air intake tommorrow (6/15/04).i did the work myself (24 minutes to r & r exhaust,70 minutes to r & r headers.very easy to do with hand tools.wife is very happy now that she has passing power.as soon as TRD comes out with a supercharger for xb its going on. cost of headers,borla exhaust ,and aem cai $625.00.can't wait to finish all the upgrades on hers so i can start on my hot lava # 1886.

does anyone know if the 2.4L TC motor will fit in the xB??

thanks,HDroar

upgrades so far to my wifes thunder cloud (cosmo);
dcsports headders
borla catback exhaust
18 x 7.5 panter chrome wheels
w/khumo exsta 215/35/18
strut tower brace
blue neon under dash
blue neon mid lower int panels
optx blue neon undercar kit
blue leds in cupholders, front &
rear
blue sport pedals
door sill enhancements f & r
floor mats and cargo mat
rear cargo cover
rear cargo net
mobile dvd system w/ 6.2"
headrest monitors
playstation2 system 4 the girls

if you'd like to see some pics email me at scionownersclub@yahoo.com

I am a mechanical engineer and am pretty familiar with the workings of an automobile. As for the header being of a specified length, i dont believe that to be correct. What will make the biggest difference is the shaping of the pipes, as this is why the best headers are the most expensive, it take a lot of time to make the headers right. A perfect header would have larger tubing, and each peice of tubing would be the same exact length (exactly the same) from engine to the single pipe. The reason for this is that if the pipe is the exact same length, then each cylinder will fire and push its exhaust out at a different time and therefore collect into a single tube at a different moment, and creat very low back pressure.

As a ME you will appreciate this book: The Scientific Design of Intake and Exhaust Systems. Pick up a copy, it's well worth the read if you are into performance engines.

Primary tube and collector length is VERY critical to exhaust tuning as is the dia. of both. The RPM range you are tuning for determines the required primary tube length. The current Scion headers use a very short primary tube length so they can bolt to the stock exhaust flange but those short primary tube is tuned for about 11,000 rpm on our little engines. I don't think anyone is twisting their engines quite that high..... The collector is WAY to short to be effective.

You want the primary tube dia. to be large enough to handle the volume of exhaust gases but small enough to maintain high velocity- without restriction, it's a balancing act for sure. A 1.5" dia. primary tube will handle up to 130-150hp in a 4 cyl., depending on a few variables.

Yes, more bends make a header slightly less effecient but having the correct length is much more critical. You want the primary tubes as equal in length as practical but within an inch or so is considered close enough.

This info just scratches the surface of what's involved in header design.

As I have said many times before, the currently available headers are "convienence" headers that bolt on to the factory exhaust. They used absolutly NO science whey they were designed. The fact that they make little power (though noticable) is a result of that. Here's proof: I spoke to DC (himself) and he told me he did not measure the exhaust port dia. when he designed the prototype header! Port dia. is pretty important consider when designing a performance header....

ken

Damn I started all this?!? All I want to do is have braggin rights for shows that I'm gonna enter in. Plus If i manage to get ahold of TRD headers Toyota will still waranty my car. :D

If you really want bragging rights, find a custom header designer/fabricator and have a one off header built with matching exhaust and you will have more to brag about than a TRD header.

ken

I could but that would equal a lot of R&D and possible engine downtime, and No Toyota Warranty coverage.