I know there has been a lenghty post on this already, but im gettin kinda mad now. I think there should be some sort of tsb or recall for the 5 speed tranny. I know alot of people here have experienced the wall between first and second gear, it can happen at any rpm, usually above 4k though.

I love my xB, but somethings gotta be done about this. sometimes the damn thing will grind even when im shifting slow. Most every other gear switch is smooth, a little notchy, but still smooth. I dont drive like a total moron either, i mean sometimes i rev high but who doesnt?! will changing tranny fluid really work?

Im gonna make an appointment with tarbox toyota (crappy dealer, dont go there) and _____ them out. When i brought it in to get my security installed (second mistake) I talked to the service manager about it and he said it would work itself and not to worry. I even asked for a mechanic to drive it and set up an appointment, and they talked me out of it. here i am 2000 miles later with the same problem. I wanna bring the car to fox scion because they are really great there, but imma _____ out the stupid ___ dealer I gave all my money too and have them take care of it.

I guess I got off topic but its 1:15 am and i just got home from driving all night and its not me causing the problem! thanks for listening to my rant lol

just outta curiosity, do you have any aftermarket floormats in your car? I had put some thick plastic ones over the scion ones to protect them, but it prevented the clutch pedal from going all the way down, and i had that grinding prob too. then i took out the floormats, and voila! problem solved. hasn't happened since. :wink:

nope, stock scion floormats, I thought that myself too, so I took out my floormat, and still happened. thanks tho :)

That was the first thing I noticed when I drove mine for the first time and 4500 miles later it still does it. And has anyone had it grind on them when putting it in reverse?

Man, I was hoping second gear would smooth out over time (only 280 miles so far). I haven't had any problems with reverse, but my old 1990 civic hatch would almost never go in on the first try. With the stick still halfway into reverse, I would let the clutch out and quickly press it back in just before it would catch, push the stick back to neutral and finally pull it all the way back into reverse. Kind of a weird ritual - hopefully it won't become necessary with this car....

I know there has been a lenghty post on this already, but im gettin kinda mad now. I think there should be some sort of tsb or recall for the 5 speed tranny. I know alot of people here have experienced the wall between first and second gear, it can happen at any rpm, usually above 4k though.

ill tell you... that damn wall is driving me nuts!! i drove my xB like a baby for the first 500 or so miles.... the wall between 1st n 2nd didnt annoy that much....

THEN...

i figured id play with it a little to see what our xB really has.... i slammed it into 2nd and my ____in shift knob almost flies off!! i was like wtf?!?!? our 2nd gear really sux. havent missed it yet, just kinda hoped id break something to loosen it up a little... no luck tho.

i am getting more n more unsatisfied w/ my xB

I don't know, but I only had a problem with 2nd/3rd gear at about 3000 RPMs. Higher RPMs, it goes in fine...

Got the same problem with 2nd and reverse. I was wondering if the shortshifter would help.

the gear has no prob..... try to improve your shifing
:D
when shifting from 1st to 2nd:
u r in 1st rpm 2500-3000 press the clutch all the way down completly push the stick to left [keep it left holding] then to 2nd

for reverse:
dont sihft to reverse if the car is still moving [even a liitle bit] that will cause the gear to grind
whenever the gear dosent shift to reverse shift to 2nd first then to reverse

hope that helps
it helped me in my xA

it's past due to drain out all that break-in tranny oil..

put in some redline synthetic.. you'll love your transmission after that!

Long long ago transmissions didn't have synchromesh. Shifing without a crunch demaneded attention from the driver: to synchronize the speeds of the driving gear and the driven gear while passing through neutral, before making the upshift. That means as the other writer indicates: get the engine rpm just as close as possible as it -must become- the instant the shift is acomplished.

This old technique is valuable even today, to minimize wear to the syncrho clutches. It's just good for the transmission and for synchro problems, as all synchro wear is banished when we shift with care.

Failing the finesse shift, yes, a thinner gear oil, even synthetic type, may make the synchro clutches react faster.

It is in downshifting that double clutching or smart use of the gas pedal really saves the synchros a lot of guff.

feel free to question my correctness on any of this stuff: I haven't driven a gear shift car in twenty years. But my planned Xb will be the five speed- syncrho shortcoming or no.

And no- a short shifter kit can't possibly cure that 2nd gear synchro snag, imo.

Yeah, the guy above my last post got it right: improve your shifing technique. You learn by feeling the car.

Notchy shift? I suspect you are forcing the synchros to work their utmost. See, they have to slow down the whizzing gear you want to latch onto. This is a braking action. And if my comprehension is correct, then then actual meshing is -delayed- until the -syncrhonization- of two gears that were spinning at wildly different rates, are matched in surface speed.

Until this synchronization happens there will be either: "notchy" resistance because you can't put two teeth into one hole so to speak :oops: OR if the speeds are nearly but not quite matchd you get that -grind- until the mesh takes place. Some mechanic could help me here if I'm getting the facts skewed. :

Anywho- if you learn to -double clutch-, esp. on downsifts, or just goose the pedal as you slip out of the prior gear, to get the flywheel revs where it will want to be at the up-shift, then ehe gear lever should feel like a trigger click and no harder than that.

In fact, if you sychro shift you may safely go up through the gears after first and back down into first -without touching the clutch pedal-.

I say this as a general thing. I haven't tried it with an Xb because I have not drivne a manual Xb. But I did get home in a VW beetle one time- far from home the clutch broke and would not disengage from the flywheel surface. That happened when I was rolling along. By creeping up to to every red light in first gear I got the nine miles home through city street, by -feeling out- the up and downshifts without the possiblity of using the clutch. It was a lesson for me :wink: and a valuable one. When I got to my driveway I stalled the car to a stop with the brake.

So, in a strange sense this is true: clutching is actually needed only for starting off from a standing stop. But yeah, use the clutch for speedy shifting and thougthless shifting.

While there may be a "problem" in the exho/scion's transmission synchro action, I am not yet convinced of it. The practical cure is, that if you grind, apply more thought to the movement of the shift lever in relation to road and engine rpms and up/downshift. Finesse instead of force is a good motto.

Yeah I have the same problem with 2nd and reverse. But when I put it in reverse once and a great while it almost feels like the clutch is burnt, then I let out and try it again and most of the time it will go in. But there are sometimes it sounds like I forced it in.

Yeah I have the same problem with 2nd and reverse. But when I put it in reverse once and a great while it almost feels like the clutch is burnt, then I let out and try it again and most of the time it will go in. But there are sometimes it sounds like I forced it in.

I don't think there are synchro clutches on any reverse gear. Someone correct me if that's wrong.

When planning a shift to reverse you know already- make sure the car ain't rolling at all. And to help the shift to R, do it from idle rpms. Don't goose the throttle nor rush the shift.

Reason for this: depressing the clutch disconnects the driving gear from the force that spins it. The driving gear soon comes to a complete rest, which of course, matches the motionless driven gear (car ain't rollin', remember).

Now, if reversis is hard to engage without a grind even if you pause in nuetral for several seconds, then there must be a slight fault with the cluctch: it isn't fully disengaging. Check then that there's nothing preventign the pedal from full motion. And if that's not the fault- go complain to the dealer 'cause you have a legitimate problem.

Another thought about this commom complaint of 2nd gear difficulty: I don't know but I "suspicion" as my buddy Steve says, that the -ratio- between first and second gear is wider here than between all the higher gears. Now, what does that import? That, in forced shifting where we lay all the brainwork onto the syncromesh clutches, that the second gear syncrho clutch is being asked to do more work than any of the other syncrhos.

Just feeling my way around a topic where I have no real experience- at least nothing up to date or Scion-specific.

its definatly not my shift technique, ive tried it all lol. I drive my friends cars who have sticks and i never have a problem, normal shifting or fast. I think i am gonna try to change the fluid to that redline stuff and see what happens.

I have no problems whatsoever going into Reverse.

But the 2nd gear thing has bugged me. I find that if I don't have the RPMs so high it goes in smoothly. But when trying to "race" off the line it always gives me grief and won't go into 2nd very easily. I don't grind though.

I think it can be improved by learning the car and shifting more thoughtfully...

im having the same problem a lot of yu are mentioning with second gear. it's only when i shift quickly when im racing or driving up steep hills thou. wut bugs me is how many peopl come into this thread and tell us that we don't kno how to shift. wut are the chances that soooooooooo damn many of us don't kno how?

I talked to Scion Customer Service about this issue. They told me that they have not heard about this issue. I was recommended to take the car into the dealership and have the techs take a look at it. I mentioned how many dealers were telling us it would go away, but after 10, 15 and 20k miles its still doing it. She said that all we can do as of this point is take it in and have them really take a look at what's causing the problem

I plan on taking it into Glendora this week, hopefully they can help me out because its getting annoying.

on cheap cars first gear doesnt have a syncro, either does reverse, as both of these gears are thought to be stop gears, ie to be used from a standstill and not to be shifted into while in motion. As for the first to second issue, i have it also and feel that the gap between the two gears might be on the high side which would cause the dramatic wall for the gearbox, basically the two gear selectors (you dont actually move gears around nowadays, just selectors). The selector has to be engaged into slots for the transmission to function, these slots may need to be broken in, or the tranny just wasnt designed to be throw around at high rpms.

i luv my tranny! every shift every clutch smooth as butta! woot :D no grinds cept for reverse*rarely... might be ur synchro's my friends XA grinds in 3'rd gear each time and hes going to be going bac kto the dealr for a new tranny :lol:

my scion had the same problem. i took it to toyota and the replaced the whole tranny for free under warrenty. hopefully the will recall this though because mine is starting to grind a little bit again. toyota should recall it and put 6 speed trannies in. that would be awesome

I noticed my manual XB was notchy when I quick shifted into 2nd. i decided to take a hi-tech approach to a repair. I work for a major BMW metro dealer and we have the greatest stuff for trans and diff lubrication. I drained my old trans oil, i believe its regular 75w 90 diff fluid, I replaced it with our synthetic xj , limited slip diff fluid and added a special lubricant from BMW, called Hinterachsegetriebol, saf-xj + fm booster, heres the thing, its made with Whale fat, yes from Whales..... the fat actually expands with heat and generates a very slippery substance that resists leaving metal parts unprotected and form a highly lubricated cushion to ease the shock when your syncros and gears are meshing. Believe me if this stuff is recomended in 360 HP M cars it has worked well in my 108 Hp manual Xb! 600 miles and I noticed smooooth shifts even when I power shift and over-all less drivetrain noise. BTW the part # is 83 22 2 282 583, avaliable at any BMW dealer. Happy motoring!

i have experienced the smae on mine, first-second shift sucks, reverse is sometimes
stiff. i have found that revving the engine a little, popping the gas pedal helps
or just keep your foot in it. However i do work for a scion dealer and have asked technicians in my shop they are telling me that toyota uses a 3 synchro second gear
taht will give that feeling..... i still dont like it though.
My short shifter is on order..
cant wait.

Wow!!

It seems that a LOT of Scion 5 speed drivers are having the same problem with the 1-2 shift.

Allow me to throw another issue into the mix.

Is the clutch a 'manual' or a 'hydraulic' clutch? (I truly don't now. I have the auto.)
In recent times, more and more carmakers are switching to 'hydraulic.'
What I am leading to is. . . have you 'stick' guys checked the fluid in the reservoir?
IF it is low (even slightly) this will produce less pressure upon the throw-out bearing and thus reduce the amount of pressure placed on the pressure plate to disengage the flywheel from the driven gear (input shaft).

Second. . . .
Possible 'air' in the hydraulic lines. This CAN cause the clutch to not fully disengage.
Have the dealership 'bleed' the line.

Third. . .
It 'sounds' like Scion has put a second gear into the car that is has a BIG spread of ratio from 1st gear.

If the clutch is of the manual type:
Can you adjust the linkage?

As for the owner that is having 'issues' with the dealership that he bought the car from. . . . "P" on 'em. The vehicle under warranty can go to any Scion dealership. Take the car where you will get satisfaction, not headaches!!!

Lastly. . .
I have been driving 'stick-shift' cars/trucks for more than 30 years and have rebuilt Muncie M-22 and Borg-Warner 4 & 5 speed gearboxes. (No, not professionally. Done out of necessity.) I have never heard of 'break-in' tranny fluid. That's a new one on me.

ahhh. i so need to go t bed, but been working so much decided to look at the posts latley and saw this one. read it all and decided to think back when i first got my xb. 5speed jan 31 the frist xb in the east coast i drove home. could of had it the 28th but didnt have my loan totally settled. but i worked as a detailer drove many manuals and friends and family all very quick shifts and hard and not even perfect sense on a daily basis i drove a automatatic s10. but i found that no car or truck has ever been as hard to shift was this brand new xb. i allways lost grip on shifter kept slamming my elbo into my side and seat and i finally after about a mounth i got used to it . then i started to syncro shirt with no clutch and it does all that very well and found that the only thing that bothered me and kept hurting me was the protection wall, the stupid little barrier trying to put it into 1st before you stop or shift 1 to2nd the was like a wall you had to push against and then after like 1 1/2 secounds it would give same with reverse so i didnt know if it was new or because it was a 2004 didnt know what kinda of new style trany.but i looked at a toyota tranny booklet and yes there are the synchronizer rings and keys andsuff, and by the looks of it is that the 1st and secound gears are located on the bottom and have a great noticable teath size so therefore harder and longer to synchronize up to allow the gears the be engaged or selected. this was but i found if i shift really hard at any rpm itll go right in. no grinding. but it used to when i would through it back it wouldnt go in and i would start to let out the clutch then it would go into gear but after i started to let the clutch out because normaly without thinking you push in clutch and pull it out of gear really fast allmost synchronized and then put it in 2nd and then let the clutch out but in a matter of a 1/2 secound so when your used to doin it in that time you push the clutch in pull it out push it back, it doesnt go in because of the little wall/ barrier and then start to let the clutch out without thinking that it isnt in gear yet ,then before you know it,it lets it go in and it grinds, i did this all the time and then decided to jam it jam it jam it and it worked, i can drive mine perfect now anything with the tranny go from 5th to 2nd with no clutch and shift perfectly smooth. but the only thing i hear and notice and bugs me is the noisy ___ linkage at the end of the shift rod that little housing for the selector is such a loud click and clunk at the same time its just the plastic in under the cloth boot doesnt silence worth ____ i think im gonna grease the hell out of it rap in plastci not to get caught up in it and then rapping cloth around it but not to interupt movement to kinda silence so you all can take my word for it o and to let youall know it all stopped around 3500 miles after hard shifting im at 8385 now . ok well hope it helps a little bit

Just a new comer here, but I did come to see if there were any other people that were having a problem w/ 2nd gear. So, yes I am with you, there is a wall and I've got a good 4000 miles on it and the wall is just as bad as when i got it. Funny thing though... Itest drove the same car that I ended up getting(worked out nice to be the only one in the world to have driven it out of production), and on the test drive I had no problem w/ the "wall", yet the shift knob was loos; meanig that i could twist it back and forth. But some how in the process of getting the car ready, they tightened it and the wall appeared. So, I'm thinking that after reading what you have all said, minus the bad shifting(do you guys really think that we don't know how to shift?...wow!), that maybe there is something wrong with the stick it's self. Any way, i'm gonna go otu and try loosening the stick by twisting it and makingit probably backwards so that it will glide the way it was originally designed. If that doesn't work, then I think that the dealership will have to be the ones to fix it: 'cause one thing's for sure the "wall" is not giving in for any of us.