I hear a lot of people talk about manuals being faster, or less sluggish than autos.......but living in Las Vegas.....I can't justify having a manual. I'm sure I'd enjoy all the shifting and such for a while......but in the stop and go crap, I'd rather just sit back and have the auto take care of things for me.

Anyway......what makes a manual tranny quicker? Is it a weight issue? Is it that you can get the RPMs up before dropping the clutch?

I've been driving a an auto 240 volvo for a long time.......and in all the good match-ups I've had with people who decide they want to race me for some reason......a lot of times it's when they shift gears in their manuals that I take them. Maybe they're just slow shifters.......but in that short time it takes them to switch gears..........I've pulled on them.

So fill me in please.

KiL

First off, autos rarely want to bring your engine to the 7k redline range where it is in (in most cases) the strongest part of its powerband. In my experiences, even when you floor it, autos usually only get you to about 5k rpms. This makes for a loss in speed.

Secondly, manual transmissions have about a 1 second delay between shifts, as to make the ride smooth and not jolty. This 1 seconds is a pretty long time, when most good drivers can shift in about .2 or .3 seconds.

Thirdly, but not really important, manual is a couple hundred pounds lighter.

Fourthly, automatic transmissions can slip easily, robbing your power.

Fifthly, you can drop the clutch at say 3500 rpms with a manual, where as you cant with an auto.

Manuals are def faster by a decent amount.

Goes both ways with a manual. If you know how to drive it then you are going to be faster then your auto counterpart but if you are shifting out of the powerband everytime then you might as well get an auto because you're going to be slower.

Also there is a little more drivetrain loss with auto since torque converters are not always efficient.

I commute an hour to which 20 min of it is bumper 2 bumper and I still love my 5 speed.

also, manual is safer. It keeps you a lot more focused on driving. Same with big rims and low profile tires, you always have to scan the road really hard to avoid potholes.

does the scion auto use a belt drive torque converter?

okay I drive a manual, and always have.. I know how much more of the car you can feel when driving, but it's like Scionic said, depends on your familiarity with it. If you are familiar with it you're good to go, but if not it can be a big distraction and drag

to become familiar with it you have to be a beginner at some point....

my parents made me get a manual 1989 accord for my first car (2500 dollars baby) because they felt it was much safer. Keeps ya focused.

Beside everyone should have fun with there stick especially if you are teaching a girl how to use it!!! :mrgreen:

Sorry couldn't help it and I'm bored at work.

lol! I know how that goes.
My favorite part about stickshift is that my fiance doesn't know how to drive it...hence I don't have to worry about her stealing my xB! :P

also if you plan on doing any performance mods to your car a manual tranny will show significantly better gains than an auto car. also a manual car is way more fun to drive than an auto.

i think a key to a manual tranny is that you actually get to do the driving instead of just basically steering it with an auto.

whenever i drive an automatic i get grand theft auto 3/vice city flashbacks and i start driving the same way in reality(i.e. ebrake slides and jumping off random slopes) . Or i just zone out and speed everywhere. I was actually thinking of getting the xB with an automatic since i wasn't counting on stoplight racing. But after making my wife learn to drive stick on the maxima she insisted we buy a manual for the next car. but im glad we did it just much more enjoyable in the end. It keeps me out of trouble and focused on the car and the road. I live in vegas too and i understand what you mean about stop and go but at the same time we don't have a 405 or a 91 like most of the guys on this board. And most of them drive manuals anyways. just spend one or two rush hours in a manual transmission car on one f those roads and you'll never complain about driving a stick in vegas again.

But I'm one of those idiots that's always pretended my auto was a manual anyway..........powershifting to get that extra 5-10mph out of a particular gear, that the auto didn't like to give me on its own. Of course.....I've probably brutalized the hell out of my tranny that way.........but my Volvo has taken the abuse nicely.

And, to get those RPMs up before launch........you can always neutral drop your auto tranny..........if you don't much care to ever use it again. :wink:

KiL

"Anyway......what makes a manual tranny quicker? Is it a weight issue?"

Weight is a small part of it, but the bigger reason is from drivetrain losses. An automatic transmission -- due to its design -- puts less HP to the wheels. Having said that, if your vehicle has enough HP & torque, an automatic tranny could be faster in the 1/4 mile.

I think you're also all forgetting that in the XB's case a huge amount of speed is gained in the shorter gear ratios. Big difference from the auto.

A lot of the "quickness" of a manual is due to the driver being able to rev the engine before the car starts rolling. The energy built up in the rotating mass of the flywheel translates into a hefty little push in the back that makes a car feel quick.

I have a feeling (yet to be verified by someone braver than I) that an automatic xB *might* be a bit faster in terms of top speed than a manual. The lock-up torque converter allows efficient power transfer, and the taller final gearing of the auto might allow the car to go a bit faster before running out of gears.

George

thank you george, for a long time 2 speed auto have been used in most 9-11 second quarter mile cars. most die hard drag raceruse an auto for more consistency. Mind you these are not stock auto and been tricked to max, Bill

thank you george, for a long time 2 speed auto have been used in most 9-11 second quarter mile cars. most die hard drag raceruse an auto for more consistency. Mind you these are not stock auto and been tricked to max, Bill

No kidding! An auto xB would launch just fine with a torque converter that stalls at 5500RPM! :) Of course, that wouldn't be very good drivetrain for street use!

The biggest problem in the high end drag racers is not power, but avoiding wheelspin. Torque converters and auto transmissions minimize variation in the torque delivered to the wheels, so the wheels aren't as likely to break loose.

With our little 105hp monsters, it takes quite a lot of effort to break the wheels loose, so the manual tranmission can be used to give that initial surge without too much worry of spinning the wheels.

George

speaking of breakign wheels loose, is it possible to do with an XB? I have yet to get mine (coming in a couple weeks), and i know I can do it easily with my dodge grand caravan. Does the XB have enough power to get a screech in dry weather?

oh yeah! ive got 1st and 2nd gear scratch but to get second you need to turn the tc off. But im rollin stock tires and id say they are pretty easy to break loose.

KingLou- But I'm one of those idiots that's always pretended my auto was a manual anyway..........powershifting to get that extra 5-10mph out of a particular gear, that the auto didn't like to give me on its own. Of course.....I've probably brutalized the hell out of my tranny that way.........but my Volvo has taken the abuse nicely.

And, to get those RPMs up before launch........you can always neutral drop your auto tranny..........if you don't much care to ever use it again.

KiL

Carful man, thats what kills tha automatic trannys in all cars. Too many nuetral drops can cause your tranny to burn out the clutchs. Once the clutchs are burned out, the car is in nuetral in any gear.

Oh hell.......I never do neutral drops. Maybe if i was driving someone else's car. :P

KiL

Another thing i have noticed is throttle lag. Dont know the exact term but it seems there is a slight delay in response from when you press the pedal and when the engine actually responds.

Even in my moms 04 E320 which is a manumatic, i can manipulate the gears but it still doesnt feel as responsive as a true manual.

I dont think i will ever buy another auto again. But then again, i refuse to drive in traffice too :)

Another thing i have noticed is throttle lag. Dont know the exact term but it seems there is a slight delay in response from when you press the pedal and when the engine actually responds.

Even in my moms 04 E320 which is a manumatic, i can manipulate the gears but it still doesnt feel as responsive as a true manual.

I dont think i will ever buy another auto again. But then again, i refuse to drive in traffice too :)

I feel I need to add my two cents! I am the kind who hates automatics , they are for wimps who don't really like to drive. Yes I know the military and even lots of racing have gone to autos but they did it for some very specific reasons and they are not the same as the street autos. More speed is possible only if the driver is able to get it from a manual. If you put a pro in an auto and an amature in a stick - the pro would surely win! There are some other things to concider though. Automatic transmissions have a down side and that is they break down , it is almost a sure thing. In fact most trans shops find any given model will brake at a given milage , +or- a small factor. Manual transmissions although not perfect tend to not brake down and even when the do it usually isn't all at once{some autos give out and that is it!}. Autos also require fluid to run and if they leak then you have problems. Manuals have oil in them for lubrcation but can work without it{although they will wear out real fast running dry}. I have never understood why people think manuals are bad for city driving , if anything they are better. Autos tend to wear much faster if they get city miles rather than highway. This is because the trans is still engaged but is slipping because the brake is being held down. A manual has a clutch which is the part that takes the wear but if the driver is cautious it can last for a long time. The cluth is either engaged or not{unless you ride it!}. Anyway just because you have to shift is no big deal , you get used to it and almost get to the point of not even realizing that you are shifting. Anyway that is my rant - manuals are the only thing I will drive!

I tend to agree on the auto reliability issue. Every auto transmission that I have owned has needed some rather expensive repairs at one time or another. The only manual transmission I've ever had to have repaired had over 250,000 miles on it at the time.

I used to do a lot of freeway commuting with sticks. I'd say that having to work the clutch now and then is less tiring than having to keep pressure on the brake pedal to keep the car from creeping. When traffic is "crawling", I'd just put it in first and let it idle. I agree that a lot of people burn up their clutches because they don't know how to use them efficiently (their either ride them and wear out their throwout and thrust bearings, or slip them and wear out their clutch plates), but that is an education issue, not a mechanical issue.

George

When I was young I wanted a stick in everything, I grew up driving three on a tree. My 70 nova ss had the L78 396 with a 4speed warner t-10, one of the stoutest trannies of its day. It took countless tuning sessions to get m nova in to 13's then low 13's. I bust the main shaft in that t-10 twice, too much torque. switched to an automatic ran more consistant, never missed a gear.

I like to cruise now. auto is fine in my Xb, and I have a remote start try that in a stick, unsafe!! I am probably the biggest wimp you ever seen at 6'3" 270. To each his own, enjoy life and your freedom. Take care and drive safe BillTurner

speaking of breakign wheels loose, is it possible to do with an XB? I have yet to get mine (coming in a couple weeks), and i know I can do it easily with my dodge grand caravan. Does the XB have enough power to get a screech in dry weather?
OH yea that is why it has traction control!!! Whit stock 1st and 2nd should be no
problem, whit my 19" on dry pavement i can engage traction control
and still get second. as miles have grown i have noticed more power
i am at 15000 miles now. I see a jun flywheel and a new clutch in time for summer
and hopefully a trd turbo if they ever exsist? OH YEA TO ALL NEA SAYERS
about xb performance that s what everybody said about hondas back in the day.
juast something to think about!

When I was young I wanted a stick in everything, I grew up driving three on a tree. My 70 nova ss had the L78 396 with a 4speed warner t-10, one of the stoutest trannies of its day. It took countless tuning sessions to get m nova in to 13's then low 13's. I bust the main shaft in that t-10 twice, too much torque. switched to an automatic ran more consistant, never missed a gear.

No doubt that you can break a manual transmission if it is used hard, and that an auto make it impossible to abuse the transmission in the same way.

However, in normal daily use a manual will usually outlast an auto. I doubt that mainshaft failure will be a concern with 1500ccs!

Autos are getting better and better, though. Sooner or later they will take over, probably when the performance difference diminishes. I think that the transition will take place when they figure out a way to produce that immediate "push in the back" sensation on throttle application that a manual provides. Perhaps hybrid technology will do this, since you don't have to wait for electrons to rev up!

I like to cruise now. auto is fine in my Xb, and I have a remote start try that in a stick, unsafe!!

Why? It seems to me that remote start in an automatic should have an inhibit if the transmission is not in "park", just as a manual should have an inhibit when if the transmission is not in neutral and the brake set. Either transmission can result in an unsafe condition if the remote start isn't installed properly.

Your 100% right about the install making all the difference as far as reliability, but liability is another issue. the human factor is to great. somebody will leave it ingear and it will lunge forward and crash into the next car. I used to do them in Guam and Japan, only after the owner signed a waver. On most cars you can bypass the nuetral safety swith with constant negitve through starting sequence. Just hope and pray that the stick is not in gear.

I ran auto xb to around 102mph or at least that what the speedo looked liked. The california highway sighn lega speed is 65 your speed is 99 flashing when I rolled through one on i-15.I shouldn't be driving that fast, I couldn't resist it.

Don't forget about gate-style autos like the tiptronic in mazdas, they allow you to up or down shift with the auto tranny.