In my continual effort for a softer ride, I thought I'd put out some information I've gained in the hope that others will join the quest. My goals are:

Softer ride (as in, keep my fillings intact)
No change in ride height (not everyone wants to slam it)
Inexpensive (I'm a cheap guy)

I started out by measuring the spring wire diameter of the stock springs of the xB and of the Echo. Here's the data:

Echo: front 11.73mm, rear 11.65mm

xB: Front 12.68mm, rear 12.55mm

The difference is only about one millimeter, but the spring rate is proportional to the 4th power of the spring wire diameter. A little math shows that the Echo springs are only 74% as stiff as the xB springs, even though the Echo weighs 86% as much as the xB. I'm assuming the same wire alloy, which is probably true for stock springs.

Now, the xB borrows a lot of parts and design from the Echo. Both front and rear suspension designs are the same, and I suspect that they share many of the same parts.

Let's assume for a moment that the vehicles have the same weight and suspension components. In order to have the same ride height, the Echo would have to have more preload on the springs, and therefore the Echo springs would have to be longer when not installed.

Now, the xB _is_ heavier than the Echo. The xb on Echo springs would sit lower than it would on stock springs. Here's a possible opportunity for lowering and ride improvement with wrecking yard price tags.

For those of us who want stock ride height, a spacer would give the additional pre-load needed to have everything come out level.

Anyone have access to a stock set of uninstalled Echo springs that would like to make some measurements for me? I'm particularly interested in the free length and mounting pad diameters of the springs.

George

I totally agree with you although I do not know how I can contribute to the quest. Would these same spacers you mention help if a set of the Tien H Tech springs (supposedly a better quality ride than stock and also not as low as most) were used? So as not to lower the ride much?

Al.Truistic
aB

In my continual effort for a softer ride, I thought I'd put out some information I've gained in the hope that others will join the quest. My goals are:

Softer ride (as in, keep my fillings intact)
No change in ride height (not everyone wants to slam it)
Inexpensive (I'm a cheap guy)

I started out by measuring the spring wire diameter of the stock springs of the xB and George...

I would also like to do the same. Would like a softer ride. Maybe you have already done something? Just wondering what you came up with?

Aside from springs, what are some other things that would improve the ride? I don't care if I gotta raise my box up 2 inches or put 5 inch wheels on it... anything I can do to get it to "float", I'll definitely consider it.

I'm willing to pay a lot for a softer ride.. of course, nothing outrageous

I would be careful about putting other car's components on your xB.

One thing of course is changing out the stock springs to more of a progressive spring like the Tein H-Techs.

You could also find a wheel/tire combo which have more rubber.

But the cheapest thing to do is get the Tein H-Tech.

Email or PM me and I'll give you a installed price on the Tein H-Techs. Our shop is located in Baldwin Park.


-Jeff
jchen@streetimage.com

I would be careful about putting other car's components on your xB.

Care is always indicated, particularly while working with safety-related components like springs. After some of the horror stories I've heard about aftermarket springs falling out you can bet I will be _very_ careful!

The fact that the xB and Echo share suspension designs make it likely that the Echo spring swap would be feasable, safe, and effective. It's very likely that the springs are designed to fit the same spring seats.

The goal of the aftermarket spring companies seems to lie primarily in lowering the car, not improving the ride. I really don't want an improved ride at the expense of having to worry about every curb and driveway. I worry enough about them at the stock height!

As far as expense goes, it's pretty hard to beat wrecking yard prices! :)

I'm still looking for a set of Echo springs to compare to my xB springs. The project has been delayed by family considerations, but it is still on the "to do" list.

George

I am also on a similar quest.

As I wrote in a similar thread, I think taller & wider tires would help.

The OEM 185/60/15 tires are of a poor quality and are: too low to the ground, too skinny, and are a made of a hard rubber compound, which I think explains the rough ride.

I believe a (205/60/R15) tire, which is wider and about ½” taller will fit nicely, give better handling, and a smoother ride. The larger tires will only throw the speedometer off by 2.1 MPH.

I found some excellent tire reviews on TireRack but can’t decide between: Firestone Firehawk Indy 500, Michelin HydoEdge, or Bridgestone Tranza LS-T.

Any ideas?


LINKS:

Tire Size Calculator Program
http://pw1.netcom.com/~sgalaba/tiresize.htm#TireSize

Tire Rack
http://www.tirerack.com

I am also on a similar quest.

As I wrote in a similar thread, I think taller & wider tires would help.

The OEM 185/60/15 tires are of a poor quality and are: too low to the ground, too skinny, and are a made of a hard rubber compound, which I think explains the rough ride.

I believe a (205/60/R15) tire, which is wider and about ½” taller will fit nicely, give better handling, and a smoother ride. The larger tires will only throw the speedometer off by 2.1 MPH.


I'm not quite as down on the stock rubber as you are. Compared to some of the OEM tires they aren't all that bad.

I think that a 205/65R15 would be better than the 60 series tire you spec. Any low profile tire will be pretty stiff, so the higher sidewall height will make things slightly better.

However, I don't think that there are that many gains to be made in tires. The springs are _very_ stiff for the weight of the car and something has to be done about that problem as well.

George

George, hit up www.echodrivers.com cuz a lot of them have lowered their rides and a few have gone with coilovers made for scions. If you need help finding a set of springs, lemme know.

George, hit up www.echodrivers.com cuz a lot of them have lowered their rides and a few have gone with coilovers made for scions. If you need help finding a set of springs, lemme know.

Great idea! Maybe I can find someone on the north side of LA with a set of Echo takeoff springs I can play with!

Thanks, George

A lot of the "poor ride quality" has a lot to do with the $14k price tag. The suspension isn't a double-wishbone kinda smooth, is it? :)

A lot of the "poor ride quality" has a lot to do with the $14k price tag. The suspension isn't a double-wishbone kinda smooth, is it? :)

The Echo, which is equally inexpensive and shares the same suspension design, rides better than the Scions. Cheap does not always equal rough.

I'm not looking for a Cadillac ride, just like to keep my fillings in place.

George

While I agree about your theory that changing springs will provide the best ride improvement and I hope you can get Echo springs to test that theory, I worry that it will make the “box” prone to tip over because the springs will compress too much.

I think the Scion (Toyota) engineers purposefully gave it a stiff suspension and standard stability control to reduce body lean and prevent rollovers, as the car is target for a “youth” audience, which typically drives very “spirited” like I do.
:wink:


I’m opting for a better quality tire that is taller and wider to improve ride, handling, and comfort.

After 5500 miles, I have found that the OEM tires have lousy traction, ride, and noise levels. I’m not trying to slam Scion or Toyota; I realize they needed to use an inexpensive tire to keep the costs down.

The consumer reviews on Tire Rack agree that the OEM tires (Goodyear Eagle LS) are just a so-so tire.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Eagle+LS

:idea:
However, there is a new tire that I am eyeing… The Goodyear Assurance TripleTred.
It gets the highest ratings (for an all-season) in all categories of any tire that will come close to fitting our xB’s
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Assurance+TripleTred

So… what do you think?

If you are still looking into tires try a 195/60R15. It is 10mm wider then stock but taller. It is about .3" Shorter then the stock JDM 185/65R15 tires. Something like a all season tire would give you some comfort along with better contact patch. Also you guys looking into the Echo Springs might also want to take a look at the shocks, those help to in the ride effect.

Shocks... great idea thanks!

As for tires, I found another...
The "Goodyear Assurance ComfortTred" has a super absorbant layer
and is supposed to provide 20% more cushion from harsh road conditions.
Anyone tried these?


Also, using the Tire Size Calculator at http://pw1.netcom.com/~sgalaba/tiresize.htm
the 205/60/15 which I was looking at getting, are .79" wider than OEM.
Will these stick out past the wheel wells?
:?:

Shocks... great idea thanks!

As for tires, I found another...
The "Goodyear Assurance ComfortTred" has a super absorbant layer
and is supposed to provide 20% more cushion from harsh road conditions.
Anyone tried these?


Also, using the Tire Size Calculator at http://pw1.netcom.com/~sgalaba/tiresize.htm
the 205/60/15 which I was looking at getting, are .79" wider than OEM.
Will these stick out past the wheel wells?
:?:

I take it you got stock wheels, I dont think it will. Another thing to look into is after market wheels. Some light weight 15" wheels. The less unsprung weight you have the better the suspension can do its job. Im not sure if I would go for a 205 tire though. The more contact you have with the road the bigger chance you have of felling the bumps and stuff. Back to the sticking out. You need to take that .79/2=.395". So .395" is how much more it will stick out on each side of the wheel so I dont think that is enough, it might be flush with the side though.

For those of you worried about tipping your xB after putting "softer" springs: I would invest in a set of bigger sway bars, It'll help prevent the outside suspension from compressing too much by transfering some of the weight to the inside wheels suspension.