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This is now the official test drive thread. post all your thoughts and discussions here on test drives. If you have a new review than bold it to make it stand out. All other threads started about a test drive will be locked.

kwicslvr



Ok I will get right to it. I drove a stock ( which compared to other cars is loaded) 5sp flint mica. They had a azure blue one also. So here is my list of pros and cons...

Pros

- Looks

The car is just darn sexy. That is all I can say. If you have not seen one in real life let me tell ya, the pics don't do it justice....

- Build Quality

I wasn't really sure what to expect considering the price and that it was a brand new car. I was impressed. The fit and finish was excellent for a car in this price range. And I really liked the interior. It really impressed me with a very understated/classy look for a ar in this class. Kudos to Scion in this area.

- Price

After driving one and actually seeing how complete a package this car is I have to say it is a great value. I mean it has everything right off the showroom floor. ABS, Sunroof...you get the picture.

Ok now onto What I didn't like.....

Cons

- Headroom

I mean what was this car built with a midget in mind?! I am only 5ft 8in and it was barely acceptable for me with the seat on the lowestsetting! I must say anyone taller than me had better put in serious time on their test drive to make sure they can hack it.

- Torque

This is where I was really dissapointed. I have been doing alot of research on comparable vehicles in this class. So far I have driven the TC, the Mazda 3s ( sedan not the wagon) , the Mitsubishi Ralliart, and the Nissan Spec V. While the car isn't gutless, up against the mazda and the ralliart it just doesn't feel as lively. When to compared to the spec v, let's just say the spec walks all over it. Now I know many of you are going to say yeah but the spec is rated at 175hp/180tq that's way more... It's no secret the spec's numbers are inflated. The Mitsubishi Ralliart is rated at 162/162 and believe me after driving one I can say it almost keeps up with the spec. So I felt that with the TC rated at 160/163 it would be in the ball park. Not so. Oh what could have been....

- Suspension

Like the torque this is another area where I was really hoping for more. The Tc has alot of body roll and feels slugish. I currently drive a Mazda protege and it's no secret that they corner great (they just don't have the horsepower) so maybe I am just being spoiled here but I really feel that if Sion is going to go after the youth market like they say the car should not handle like a you parent's midsize sedan. Give me some handling please. Once again the spec and the mazda are significantly better here. NOTE: I feel that all that really needs to be done remedy this is some stiffer spring rates. So this definately may not be an issue once the TRD or other after market manufacturer's springs hit the market.

Well guys there it is. The good and the bad. overall I say the car is a good car it just needs some tweaking to be a homerun. Had it driven like a spec v/ralliart I would not have been able to get my wallet out fast enough! And lest you think I am some Scion hater/mazda,nissan,mistubishi lover. I have a few things to say. The mitsubishi is a fun car but looks funky. The nissan drives like a bat out of hell but build quality is definately a concern. The mazda while being a very well built car is somewhat quircky looking and is prety darn pricey. So there all in all I say the Scion is good and could be great. Hmmm....supercharger and some stiff springs????? Gonna have to keep my eye on that.

What no replies???

Fair Review ... I respect your opinion.

However, the price point of your test palette may be a litte out of the tC range...
Mazda 3 has to be a base i version to be at mid 16K.
Mitsu Ralliart and Nissan Spec V are also a good bit above mid 16K
another comparison could be had to the Neon R/T (*not SRT4) which isn't far off... actually dodge has the 04's for under 16K right now.

Just my 2 cents.

Fair Review ... I respect your opinion.

However, the price point of your test palette may be a litte out of the tC range...
Mazda 3 has to be a base i version to be at mid 16K.
Mitsu Ralliart and Nissan Spec V are also a good bit above mid 16K
another comparison could be had to the Neon R/T (*not SRT4) which isn't far off... actually dodge has the 04's for under 16K right now.

Just my 2 cents.
I was thinking the same thing myself but then I realized
#1 with the rebates the spec is actally as cheap or cheaper than a TC As far as the ralliart the dealers are dealin so I would say you could definately get them close also.
#2 the TC is rated pretty much the same the same as the Ralliart in hp.

All in all I really wanted to like the TC and still do I was just hoping it would have it all. Performance and sexy looks.... but I guess we cant have it all now can we. Like I said though with the supercharger and some springs.....

The tc has a 2.4L engine. There is obviously some sort of "bottleneck" in there somewhere, as this size displacement should be turning out more horses. A little headwork would likely open it up a bit. Keep in mind that the most performance this engine has seen has been in a camry/solara, where the main concern isn't going fast, its longevity. I can't wait to get my tc, and get to work on it. First stop, NDRA C/4.
PS if you are going forced induction, watch out about giving it more than about 7-8 psi. 9.5 to 1 is a little high for real power.And even though Toyota pistons come from the factory Teflon-coated,which will help with friction, some dished pistons to drop that compression down would serve you well, and keep things cool.

se-r is a sporty version of the sentra, and is produced in relatively low quantities. the spec-v is the more hardcore version of that. same goes with the ralliart lancer. also the civic si is the sporty version of the civic, or more precidely, the civic hatchbacks(which are not sold in the US, along with the hardcore version, the type-r). i'm almost certain that the spec-v and the civic si only come with manual transmissions.

the scion is a more broad entry level sports coupe that comes mono-spec. one flavor for all who are interested. most will be auto's. most will never come near a race track. flavor is added in the form of a bolt-on supercharger and trd suspension packages. that's basically scion's focus.

i dunno if you read about the direction they were going with this car, but it wasn't made specifically to produce low times at the track. they figured that younger buyers like nice things too and that the would appreciate a nice driving, well made, good looking car.

i'm not all that young...but i'm sold.

don't be talkin shiz, bout my scions :P

The tC doesnt have it "all", but for the price, and quality, it's pretty hard to beat. We got in any tCs in yet, so I'll hold direct comment on the vehicle. However, keep in mind the price, and quality of the vehicle. You can't beat a toyota manufactured vehicle.

se-r is a sporty version of the sentra, and is produced in relatively low quantities. the spec-v is the more hardcore version of that. same goes with the ralliart lancer. also the civic si is the sporty version of the civic, or more precidely, the civic hatchbacks(which are not sold in the US, along with the hardcore version, the type-r). i'm almost certain that the spec-v and the civic si only come with manual transmissions.

the scion is a more broad entry level sports coupe that comes mono-spec. one flavor for all who are interested. most will be auto's. most will never come near a race track. flavor is added in the form of a bolt-on supercharger and trd suspension packages. that's basically scion's focus.

i dunno if you read about the direction they were going with this car, but it wasn't made specifically to produce low times at the track. they figured that younger buyers like nice things too and that the would appreciate a nice driving, well made, good looking car.

i'm sold.

I agree.

ps thanks for the review. kinda what I expected can't wait for the springs and supercharger.

Thanks for the fair and unbiased review! I really like hearing about both the good and the bad of the tC.

the Scion line In my opion could all use tuning from the factor I have a 04 XB with about 6,200 miles onm it an I changed the to after market springs and the car handles so much better and the ride is also better after the sway bars come in it'll only get better. There have in my opion there has only been a hand full of cars that come from the factory that you wouldn't want to make changes to but they all cost more than a TC , thanks for the great review

I disagree with the person who said the Lancer Ralliart is pricier than the tC. I nearly bought a Ralliart and I had the price negotiated down to $16,400 before I even set foot in the showrom. Mitsubishi is on the ropes and they are willing to deal to sell cars.

That said, although I am disappointed that with similar power specs the tC appears to be lacking in performance, the real reason I am buying a tC over a Ralliart is build quality. Who knows how long a Mitsubishi will hold together but everyone knows Toyota is top tier in quality. I have a nearly 100 mi. round trip commute every day and I need to be sure my car is going to make it day in and day out.

Thanks for the honest review.

Well, considering that the tC weighs 2905 lbs compared to 2762 for the Mazda 3s, of course it's gonna be slower and handle worse.

Again yet another check mark on the horrible head room side... doesn't make any sense at all to me how people under 6 foot always say there is barely enough headroom for them but people over 6 foot say there ample...

You shorter dudes must like to sit up really really straight.

Again yet another check mark on the horrible head room side... doesn't make any sense at all to me how people under 6 foot always say there is barely enough headroom for them but people over 6 foot say there ample...

You shorter dudes must like to sit up really really straight.
Or perhaps the tall guys sit farther back because of the length of their legs... which if you think about it would make sense. Also I don't sit up straight but I certainly don't roll ala "gangsta lean" if you get what I mean. I think the fact that I am shorter makes me move farther forward which means I am closer to the windshied and if you look at the shape of the roofline you will definately get more headroom the further back you are. I also didn't really care for the headroom in the Mazda 3 either. It was better but not by much.

don't be talkin shiz, bout my scions :P

The tC doesnt have it "all", but for the price, and quality, it's pretty hard to beat. We got in any tCs in yet, so I'll hold direct comment on the vehicle. However, keep in mind the price, and quality of the vehicle. You can't beat a toyota manufactured vehicle. Uhh...no "shiz" just my opinion...I'm trying to be fair and unbaised.. Notice I never said I didn't like the car...I just felt there were things that should be improved. The HP/TQ specs seem to be a little on the high side compared to how the real car performs. I mean the spec v 's ratings are way overated were as the ralliarts seem to be right on target so I expected it to perform about the same as far as get up and go.

The tc has a 2.4L engine. There is obviously some sort of "bottleneck" in there somewhere, as this size displacement should be turning out more horses. A little headwork would likely open it up a bit. Keep in mind that the most performance this engine has seen has been in a camry/solara, where the main concern isn't going fast, its longevity. I can't wait to get my tc, and get to work on it. First stop, NDRA C/4.
PS if you are going forced induction, watch out about giving it more than about 7-8 psi. 9.5 to 1 is a little high for real power.And even though Toyota pistons come from the factory Teflon-coated,which will help with friction, some dished pistons to drop that compression down would serve you well, and keep things cool.
Yeah something weird is goin on there....I mean the facory HP/TQ ratings must be over inflated cause it doesn't really feel like 160/163. Still all in all it is a good car for a great price...

se-r is a sporty version of the sentra, and is produced in relatively low quantities. the spec-v is the more hardcore version of that. same goes with the ralliart lancer. also the civic si is the sporty version of the civic, or more precidely, the civic hatchbacks(which are not sold in the US, along with the hardcore version, the type-r). i'm almost certain that the spec-v and the civic si only come with manual transmissions.

the scion is a more broad entry level sports coupe that comes mono-spec. one flavor for all who are interested. most will be auto's. most will never come near a race track. flavor is added in the form of a bolt-on supercharger and trd suspension packages. that's basically scion's focus.

i dunno if you read about the direction they were going with this car, but it wasn't made specifically to produce low times at the track. they figured that younger buyers like nice things too and that the would appreciate a nice driving, well made, good looking car.

i'm not all that young...but i'm sold.

I agree with everything you say with one exception...I can forgive the sluggish/soft suspension because Scion never made any claims there but the HP/TQ numbers just don't add up the car doesn't perform the same as other cars with comparable numbers.....Other than that I like the car it has many pluses....

Thanks for the fair and unbiased review! I really like hearing about both the good and the bad of the tC.
No problem I really tried to be objective and not let emotions rule me. I really love the way the car looks in person though it is really hard to shake...SEXAH!!!!!!!!!!

I disagree with the person who said the Lancer Ralliart is pricier than the tC. I nearly bought a Ralliart and I had the price negotiated down to $16,400 before I even set foot in the showrom. Mitsubishi is on the ropes and they are willing to deal to sell cars.

That said, although I am disappointed that with similar power specs the tC appears to be lacking in performance, the real reason I am buying a tC over a Ralliart is build quality. Who knows how long a Mitsubishi will hold together but everyone knows Toyota is top tier in quality. I have a nearly 100 mi. round trip commute every day and I need to be sure my car is going to make it day in and day out.

Thanks for the honest review.
No problem I really wanted to show the car in a real light as opposed to just pushing the positives and ignoring any negatives. I am in the same place as you as far as the whole new ar thing goes I drive alot and really want a good quality car but I also want something with some zing. The spec v is a blast to drive but the build quality is iffy and it is kind of ugly. The mazda3 is expensive with good build quality but just doesn't quite have the zip of a Ralliart or a Spec. The ralliart looks ok and performs well but it is just that a happy medium of all. All in all driving the TC did not make my decision any easier...actually it just made it harder...

Well, considering that the tC weighs 2905 lbs compared to 2762 for the Mazda 3s, of course it's gonna be slower and handle worse.
Come on 143lbs is not enough to make that big of a differance as what I felt. I understand this is a TC forum be let's be open minded...

Great review! Kinda what I thought about headroom, though. When buying my wife's Toyota last weekend, the finance manager said the tC would accomodate someone as tall as 6'4" (LOL). I forget sometimes that these guys will say anything. I'm 6'1" so I guess for me, I'll still keep looking at the xB (although my wife said she'd learn to drive a manual transmission so we could have the tC :wink: )

yea 143lbs is like having your girl in the passenger seat. :D The difference in handling based on that should be negligent. I'm guessing its the suspension and maybe a bottlekneck in the engine. just lower the car about 1.5' throw on some stiffer springs and open up the engine. and the problem should be solved. 8)

I'm also 6'3 from what I've heard and seen it shouldn't be a problem I'm all legs anyway. :D

yea 143lbs is like having your girl in the passenger seat. :D The difference in handling based on that should be negligent. I'm guessing its the suspension and maybe a bottlekneck in the engine. just lower the car about 1.5' throw on some stiffer springs and open up the engine. and the problem should be solved. 8)

I'm also 6'3 from what I've heard and seen it shouldn't be a problem I'm all legs anyway. :D Well I think it really depends on if you sit with the back of the seat WAYYYYY reclined. IF you do you will be ok but if you just sit normal Isay make sure you really pay attention to this on the test drive to make sure you can live with it. I could live with it but I am short. 5'8"

Great review! Kinda what I thought about headroom, though. When buying my wife's Toyota last weekend, the finance manager said the tC would accomodate someone as tall as 6'4" (LOL). I forget sometimes that these guys will say anything. I'm 6'1" so I guess for me, I'll still keep looking at the xB (although my wife said she'd learn to drive a manual transmission so we could have the tC :wink: )

Have you sat in one yet??

in regards to your comment to the suspension. my wife has a protege5 and i have is300. true the car doesn't ride like a mazda but rides more like an is300 where its a perfect balance of sport and luxury. i had a celica gts before and when i hit bumps on the road the chassis would begin to shake. the tC suspension soaks up all the bumps while the chassis remains composed.

remember they were going after a european road feel with the tC. i've taken the car @120mph and love how smooth and quiet the cabin is, compared to my celica at the same speed everything starts to shake.

I've sat and driven the Tc (just waiting for mine to get the stereo installed MONDAY COME QUICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

I'm 6'3" and the headroom was no problem in the passanger & drivers seat. Maybe some of these people who are over 6 foot want to be sitting at a 90 degree angle but all I did is recline the seat about an inch and I was totally comfy.

The back seats on the otherhand..... Lets just put it this way Front seats for me & my guy friend, back seats for our short girls we are taking out on dates.

All in all headroom is GREAT!

I totally agree with the fact that other cars feel more livily when driving. I personally was dissapointed, but you can't have everything, if the price was 19k or 20k then it might be a real turn off but hey, mine is 17 + so you know what? I'm pretty satisfied with what I'm getting. PLUS you gotta love that soonroof. I LOVE how the sunshade will flip back so quick when you start to open the roof.

yea 143lbs is like having your girl in the passenger seat. :D

haha thats pretty heavy for a girl unless she is tall.

Manas is right..one of the Toy/Sci execs has even stated the handling goal was that of the Jetta..which probably isn't competing with the RSX A Spec in the handling department...a lot of the comparisons made have been w/Japanese cars ..i've owned many of both and the Japanese cars generally seem lighter on their feet...the German cars seemed softer but more solid...this is just a general thing i've noticed...my fathers M Roadster ain't exactly cushy so i understand there are always exceptions...but this is a $16,500 car after all...

yea 143lbs is like having your girl in the passenger seat. :D

haha thats pretty heavy for a girl unless she is tall.

yep tall and I don't like em anorexic either. :wink:

My impressions after an all too brief 10 mile test drive over twisty two-lane back country roads:

Fit and Finish: Admirable, up to the best Toyota quality standards for other vehicles built in Japan.

NVH: Solid as a rock, no unusual clunks or rattles despite blowing through potholes at speed. Quiet at least up to ~85 mph, my max speed on the loop.

Exterior: Beautiful from all angles except dead on from the front that appears somewhat generic. A chin spoiler or splitter with fog lights will help. The graphite finish stock wheels are gorgeous and appear light weight. They were a $400 option on my IS300, standard on tC. Not impressed with the rear spoiler, it looks better clean IMHO.

Interior: Quality throughout, especially at the reasonable price point. The top dash finish and waterfall effect center pod are distinctly different and set tC apart from the competition. Seats are almost Recaro fit and finish and are heavily bolstered. I was eventually able to adjust seat, wheel, shifter and pedal spacing to accommodate my 5'11" and 190 lb. frame with a little headroom to spare. I didn't need to recline the seatback excessively for proper ergo. Wide pedal spacing made heel/toe downshifts difficult, the optional pedal covers might help. Rear seat headroom was adequate if your head is positioned under the rear glass. Outward visibility is good in all directions, especially compared to my MR2 Spyder top up. Switchgear heft and feel is comparable to Lexus, very cushy tactile feedback.

Engine: Very flat torque curve with VVT-i. No noticeable peakiness, just consistent pull all the way to the rev limiter that I hit too many times. The twin balance shafts really do their job, it feels more like a Toyota V-6 but sounds like a well-tuned 4 banger. Speed gains deceptively quickly, yet the engine pulls strongly from ~2K rpm to redline.

Transmission: Short throws made it a pleasure to shift. I don't know if a short-shift kit would even be necessary. Ratios seem well spaced 1-3, a bit of a drop to 4th. I never got into 5th. Wheels spun on a quick 1-2 upshift and gave a nice bark on a redline 2-3 quick shift. If you eventually get the S/C, I think a limited slip will be required.

Clutch: Progressive, even engagement. Shouldn't be any problem in city driving.

Brakes: Smooth, even pressure produced straight stops. ABS engaged at the limit but it was still easy to change direction with ABS pumping.

Steering: Definitely the strong point of the car. Direct, quick, outstanding feedback, well weighted, everything you'd want in almost any car. No noticeable torque steer except on quick shifts at redline, but still minimal. The leather wrapped and tilt adjustable wheel is the perfect diameter and thickness. This might be the best steering Toyota in production, even better than my MR2 Spyder.

Suspension: Compliant, maybe a tad too soft, but about what the 80th percentile will want. I got the rear to step out on an off-camber downhill braking turn, but it was easily controllable. My first mod will be the rear sway bar and...

Tires: The weakest link, like so many cars off the lot. I'd read that Potenza RE-040's would be standard, an adequate Summer tire with predictable breakaway. Instead, the tC had Potenza RE-92's, an all-weather tire suitable for an econobox, but a serious shortcoming on the tC. It might be a regional thing, with the M+S RE-92's going to the Snowbelt areas like here. Mod #2 will be Summer high performance tires.

HVAC: It was 84°F and sunny. With the silky smooth temperature selector set on less than max cool and the fan on medium speed, the cabin cooled within a mile. The rest of the drive was on low fan speed. Good, quiet air flow and distribution. If only it had full auto A/C, it would be perfect.

Stereo: Sorry, can't comment. The head unit was missing and being updated.

General: Considering the price, I'm very impressed. My Flint Mica 5M/T with all the air bags should arrive next month. After a few tweaks like the rear sway bar, tires and strut tower brace, I think it'll hold it's own until the S/C is released in November. I think the chassis will be easily able to control the extra power with no further upgrades other than those listed, plus synthetic brake fluid. You know, Toyota gets around $23K for the Avensis (4-door tC) in Europe. They really are looking for market share with this car. It's good, very, very good at $23K. At the U.S. price, it's a segment leader. If you need the side airbags, get in line now, they're limited to 10% of production I'm told.

awesome review. thanx for the info.

in regards to your comment to the suspension. my wife has a protege5 and i have is300. true the car doesn't ride like a mazda but rides more like an is300 where its a perfect balance of sport and luxury. i had a celica gts before and when i hit bumps on the road the chassis would begin to shake. the tC suspension soaks up all the bumps while the chassis remains composed.

remember they were going after a european road feel with the tC. i've taken the car @120mph and love how smooth and quiet the cabin is, compared to my celica at the same speed everything starts to shake.
My complaint with the suspension wasn't so much with the bumps as it was with the body roll in corners.. Which really won't be an issue I bet once we get some good aftermarket springs....

I've sat and driven the Tc (just waiting for mine to get the stereo installed MONDAY COME QUICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

I'm 6'3" and the headroom was no problem in the passanger & drivers seat. Maybe some of these people who are over 6 foot want to be sitting at a 90 degree angle but all I did is recline the seat about an inch and I was totally comfy.

The back seats on the otherhand..... Lets just put it this way Front seats for me & my guy friend, back seats for our short girls we are taking out on dates.

All in all headroom is GREAT!

I totally agree with the fact that other cars feel more livily when driving. I personally was dissapointed, but you can't have everything, if the price was 19k or 20k then it might be a real turn off but hey, mine is 17 + so you know what? I'm pretty satisfied with what I'm getting. PLUS you gotta love that soonroof. I LOVE how the sunshade will flip back so quick when you start to open the roof.

Who did you get your TC from? I live in the area.....

yea 143lbs is like having your girl in the passenger seat. :D

haha thats pretty heavy for a girl unless she is tall.

yep tall and I don't like em anorexic either. :wink:
You said it!!!!Give me curves....

I test drove one today!

It was an auto with the AC on and 3 others in the car with me, so it was basically the slowest setup to test drive...but I enjoyed it! It was totally what I expected! A smooth, yet sporty, responsive car with comfy seats and cold AC. I drove my fiance's Acura TSX to the dealership. The TSX, I'm afraid, was what I was comparing it with...I was initially disappointed, but then I remembered that the tC is a good $10k LESS than the Acura. The TSX has similar size wheelbase, wheel size, tires, torque, engine size, and sporty theme. The weight is close but the power and gearing are in favor of the Honda-powered sedan. It's unfair to compare, but maybe the tC can look forward to growing up to someday be a full fledged Lexus in the future!

The seats aren't all that supportive. The seats in the TSX are perfect to me. They hug and they're wrapped with perforated black leather. The tC seats look neat and seem like they will be supportive, but they are soft couches in comparison. Good for the long drives, but I dunno about long term. Only time will tell on that one.

The engine was sluggish as I expected, but I did notice some pep there once you get moving. I'm spoiled by the TSX in this department the way it imitates a larger V6. The TSX's engine has the perfect blend of low weight and good low end torque in a package that likes to be revved. The tC isn't too bad at revving either. It's similar to the base Accord engine. It's definitely enough power to get around with. But I'll see for sure when I get to drive a 5 speed manual version with a couple less bodies in the back.

The engine didn't seem as smooth as the TSX or a base Accord or a Civic Si, which I expected. I'm not sure if Toyota motors really compare with Honda 4-bangers when it comes to that silky, smooth, sewing machine efficiency. But maybe I just need to spend more time with it.

The headroom is limited in the front, but I expected that knowing it had that glass roof. The seating in the back wasn't bad when you reclined the rear seats a tad. Overall, the seats were comfy...even with 4 adults in the car. I dunno how you're gonna get a 5th full size person squeezed in the back, tho...haha.

It was twilight so I didn't get the full effect of the interior lighting, but the dash lit pretty nicely against the silver gauges. It has nice amber lighting that looks good. But if you haven't seen the the beautiful display of automotive interior lighting in a TSX at night...you haven't seen anything yet...again...I'm spoiled by the coolest looking mood and dash lighting in a car. Cleaner even the the TSX's big brother, the TL.

The car isn't as TIGHT as a TSX, but it still feels solid. After my drive, I got into an xB right afterwards and the xB also felt tight, but...the engine in the xB falls pretty flat whenever you decide you need to accelerate at speed. The tC feels more like a normal, capable car that will cruise on the freeways quite easily. The xB has headroom to spare compared to the tC(or most cars for that matter), but the tC is the more conservative, yet attractive styling that I feel is more substantial to me for the long run...I expect to have this car a good 10 years. I think this car would still be pretty nice in a decade.

Ok, I've got more to say I'm sure...but that's all I could get out right now. Overall...good experience. I have my local dealer keeping an eye out for my future car. I hope they crank up production of the side air bag equipped models as soon as possible. I can't wait to attack my 40 mile commute in it!

oh BTW...

I have a question to those that know about these Toyota's...
What's that button in the glove about?

someone had posted something about a tC test drive on cable tv.... anyone know what channel and when it airs?.... if it has already aired... if anyone has it on the pc. for upload.....i must see this thing in action... the commercials just dont do it for me.

Test drove a tC yesterday. Here's what I thought:

First of all, I drove an automatic with no extra options besides those overpriced stickers and a 6-disk CD changer.

Power:
The power was pretty much what I expected. A couple of weeks ago I test drove an '04 Honda Accord Coupe (both i4 and v6), a Camry Solara (i4) and a Mazda 6 (V6). Compared to the 4 cylinder cars, the tC seemed more powerful. It had better acceleration from a stop and it seemed to pass cars with ease. Ofcourse the 6cylinder models were faster, but they also cost about $6,000 more. Compared to my current car ('93 Mazda 323) the tC was ofcourse faster. Even though my little hatchback is surprisingly fast with it's 1.6L engine (it's very very light), the tC ofcourse is more powerful. You also really feel the engine and hear it when you get into the higher RPMs (which I think is a good thing). On the freeway I had no problem getting to 65, then 75, then... then the dealer got a little ____ed off. With some mods this car will definately smoke any competition.

Handling:
Now this is what I thought set this car appart from the others I test drove. MUCH BETTER handling then a Honda Accord coupe. Similar to the Mazda 6, and also better then the Solara. I really felt like I was in control of this car, and I was one with the road. Didn't feel any bumps, but also didn't get the feeling like I was riding on air. Has a very good balance between the two extremes. Also, I busted a U at like 25 mph (which once again ____ed off my dealer, who BTW already sold the car I was test-driving ... haha poor sucker who buys that car), and the car had very little leaning and took the turn very well. Has a very tight turning radius. Also, the stock model rides pretty high, you don't feel like you're right on the ground. So once again, I was very impressed with the handling.

Head Room:

I am 5'10" and I sat in every single seat in every single possible position. Sitting up-right in the driver seat, you have little headroom, mayble like a couple of inches...but NO ONE sits upright. With a little bit of leaning, you get very good head room, and you're much more comfortable. The passenger seat has a little less head room, and isn't height-adjustable (which I didn't enjoy too much). The back seats offer little head room in the upright position, but are very very comfortable if you recline them a little bit. So, it's pretty much what I expected. I noticed however, that the tC has BETTER head room then the Toyota Solara. Also, all cars with sun roofs have less head room than others, and if you consider that category, the tC has very good head room.

Other:
The stereo was awesome. You can change the backlight color by pressing just one button which was pretty cool. The sunroof looks really cool, but I didn't like the slide covers that seemed to be made up of a cheap, rubbery material. I'd prefer a solid plastic cover instead. What else, what else...oh I didn't see the hood no matter how much I adjusted my seat.
I didn't like a couple of things about the TC though.
1. The steering wheel is tiny! I could barely fit both hands on it, and when i did i felt like i was driving a go cart! Did anyone else notice that?
2. Even when the sunroof was closed, i still heard the wind coming from there. This was especially the case when I was on the freeway. Closing the covers did help, however. This was probably the biggest thing that got me worried. I'm afraid that the sunroof doesn't have a good enough seal when it's closed, which might allow water in if it rains too hard. I hope that's not true tho.
3. The trunk was pretty small for a hatchback. But I'm not worried about that since I don't expect to go shopping very often...gotta save my money for the car.

So that's it. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask!

i don't know if most of you who are not happy with 2AZ in the tC drove an auto. i thought the car has great power from idle to 5000rpms. it does run out of breath a little past 5k to redline but i'll sacrifice some high rpm power for some low end. the next time you guys drive a manual, quickshift 1st@2000rpms into 2nd then floor it close to redline and you'll feel the linear pull of this motor. also, the best gears in the car is 1st to 3rd where it pulls the hardest, 4th is okay but its 70% of what 3rd feels like.

grant it our's has the trd exhaust which trd has said adds 12 crank hp to the car so the car were driving has 172hp. i can't wait until we lower the car with the trd springs and add the aem cai.

[quote="RussianTC"][b]
... that the tC has BETTER head room then the Toyota Solara. ... Also, all cars with sun roofs have less head room than others, and if you consider that category, the tC has very good head room. "


***The Solara has a spec'd front headroom of 38.1", the tC 37.6" (i.e, less headroom).


"... i still heard the wind coming from there. This was especially the case when I was on the freeway. Closing the covers did help, however. This was probably the biggest thing that got me worried. I'm afraid that the sunroof doesn't have a good enough seal when it's closed, which might allow water in if it rains too hard. I hope that's not true tho."


***This kind of sunroof (nearly identical to that offered by Mercedes starting w/ 02 models of c- coupes and then E-class, and perhaps from the same supplier) due to its size alone WILL result in increased wind noise and a different feeling ride, due to the missing structural stiffiness of the all-metal body. Similar to driving a rag-top (but not AS noisy).

Fear that it will leak is silly and highly unlikely. Creaking and squeaking is another matter. .. But these type roofs have been manufactured for awhile now and most of the kinks have been worked out of them.


"...the trunk was pretty small for a hatchback. But I'm not worried about that since I don't expect to go shopping very often.."


***That's why the rear seats fold down.

I test drove a white manual tC today and was more than satisfied with the acceleration. I have a favorite hill that I compare cars on. It is straight up a very steep hill for about 1/2 mile. The tC was able to accelerate up it, gaining speed all the way. This is impressive considering that we are at 6200 ft elevation.

someone had posted something about a tC test drive on cable tv.... anyone know what channel and when it airs?.... if it has already aired... if anyone has it on the pc. for upload.....i must see this thing in action... the commercials just dont do it for me.

There was a "first look" review on Motorweek on PBS satellite today. It was very positive. They talked about how well equiped and sporty it is for the price. It was not a full test and therefore did not include 0-60 times. Local PBS stations will show this sometime this week. As they say "check local schedules".

My dealer has a black cherry manual tC in his next allocation. I was able to put a deposit on that one. He also requested an Azure Pearl, my first choice color, for the next allocation. When the cherry gets here, he will know whether the Azure is indeed in the following group. If so, then I can choose.

Roy

I'll add my tC test drive experience from yesterday (finally after waiting forever!).

I drove a Flint Mica with auto (4 dlrships and none with manuals to drive - sold them all within 2 days). Looked at the Flint in bright sun. Lots of color flakes in there. My guess is there will be interesting color morphs with different light/sun/clouds, etc. Not dark enough to confuse with black on a sunny day.

5'6" - obviously no problems with headroom. The seat is amazingly adjustable. Very nice stock at the price.

Other posters have mentioned the gauge cluster boot cycle when you power it up. Definitely fun to watch. I'd describe the ride as both smooth and communicative. For me, the road feel is somewhere between a Mazda 3s Sedan and an Accord EX Coupe (4cyl). Not as soft as the Accord and not as "brittle" as the 3. The tC communicated the road, but not with as much of an edge as the 3. I wouldn't say better than the 3, just different.

Quieter on the road than the 3 and pretty close to the Accord (maybe better). The 3 was noisy - tire noise and wind noise. With problems like A/C not cooling enough (and Mazda still not fixing it), rattles, and rear disc pitting/scoring (TSB out now), I won't be getting the 3.

Interior quality was good - better than anything in its price range. Closer to Lexus than to Toyota models in the "feel" of the interior. Beats the 3 interior for me. The HVAC controls are great - pushbutton everything except temp adjustment. The cast aluminum temp knob has a good feel to it. It doesn't look like you can display both time and outside temp at the same time unless it's somehow user-configurable. Outside temp is all you get when you choose it. But that's a world away from deal-breakers.

Steering was tight, almost just as tight as the 3 - more communicative than the Accord. I took a couple of 30 mph hard lefts at lights and the car felt like it was gripping the road with little body lean, if any. Couldn't really do much more with salesguy next to me. Reasonable low-end torque for an auto, but I definitely want to test the manual. I saw a new buyer leave a lot with a manual and it moved well in 1st.

I checked out Camry engine and auto transmission forum posts when I heard about the Camry - tC relationships. Camry posters have complained about a lag in the auto when you kick it down to pass or merge. Since the pictures of the 2004 Solara auto look the same as the tC auto (same knob, shaft, display plate and shift movements), I checked for lag. There was a slight lag that felt normal for an auto. Not like the posts I read about Camry people almost getting rear-ended because nothing happened when they stomped to merge. Also, the auto has a smooth manual 1-2-3 shift option (no "tiptronic") and then the fully auto "D" slot which gets you all four.

Visibility seemed good. Side mirrors have good image size (mirror surface) - feels just right. The rear window seemed ok - not huge visibility - but not bad. However, filter that through my current car being a CRX. At no point did I feel like I was missing something, other than the usual blind spot.

The A/C was good. I was looking for that because of my friend's Mazda 3 and the A/C issues on the various forums. The tC was sitting in the sun with windows and sunroof open and direct sun on the seats at 89F (per the dash display). No wind, so not a lot of natural air movement inside the car. To check road noise and A/C, we closed everything once we were in a 55 mph zone (at first, I was up to 72 and didn’t know it –smooth ride). I had to turn the A/C fan down after just a couple of minutes and move the temp up a little because it was too cold. Salesguy was fidgeting with the vents so he wouldn't freeze - it was kinda funny. We never used the recirc - all 89-degree fresh air. The fan speed control is microchip - up or down buttons to cycle through speed. Off button to stop.

A little more on the heat thing - I tested an 05 Corolla LE after the tC - one last forced effort at trying the fuel economy option (it's just not meant to be this time around). Didn't like the Civic - about 5 years too plain (I know, the Corolla's no beauty, either.) The Corolla A/C worked great, too - but the upholstery wasn't as good for me as the tC. Got a sweaty back in the LE but after the tC drive, no problems. Same route, same approach with windows and sunroof open until 55 zone, etc. The A/C was good in both - it was the upholstery that got me in the LE. We did air the LE out with open doors while we were walking around it before I drove, but it says something to me that the tC also started hot, was A/C cooled on the drive the same way, and my back was fine.

The stereo head unit was missing. I read something about the new 05 head unit being on order. Apparently, it has a circuit improvement to give you the option of dealing with compression artifacts on MP3's. (I'm happy with my MP3's - I recommend the free Exact Audio Copy with the LAME codec. I use 192 VBR.)

That great tC silver dash door is hiding a stereo void for now. I did listen to the same head unit on an xA and wasn't impressed with the Scion sound shaping (or whatever they call their 3 equalization presets). I'll reserve judgment until I hear the tC, though. Certainly different acoustic space, different sound-absorbing materials, etc.

I did decide that because I burn my own discs and MP3 discs can hold much more data than wave-based discs that I'll skip the extra $$$ to upgrade to a 6-disc breakable mechanism along with 10 changeable colors (that’s for me – to each his or her own). If I don't like the stock unit and someone other than Scion accessories puts out a reasonably-priced better one later, I'll pick it up.

It’s a great car that could easily slot into a higher price point. As soon as I get a chance to test a manual and see the Blue (Flint and Blue are my options), my decision will be made.

great review..thanks..

Thanks to everyone who has posted reviews, very interesting to read, all of them. It seems like more than a few of you were not allowed to drive the car alone.. what's up with that? I don't want to feel intimidated into driving the car like my grandmother.. It's hard to push a car with the salesman next to you.

I test drove one in seattle today!!

okay first of all the looks of it are damned sexy, i love the lines although i will admit it needs to sit lower.

handling was fine for a sub twenties sport coupe, sway bars would be nice but not necisarry in daily driving, the stock suspension works as is for me.

power was what i expected, quick, linear, but not breathtaking, slower than my turbo all-trac, but thats a duh statement. i think the basic performance upgrades, exhaust, intake, header, should do well in making it a more agressive car.

just my two cents guys. im so getting one tho, flint mica 5-speed. probably be the only kid in seattle with one for awhile. i hope.

Ok, test drove it again today!

I drove by a Toyota dealership on the way home and looked over to see if I could see a tC. I immediately noticed a pretty blue one among the boxes!

I was hoping it would be a stick, but it was an auto...again. :?

I decided I wanted to hang out with the car sumore and ended up taking a test drive again. This time my future wife stayed back and I took the car out along with the dealer and no other passengers.

This time it felt sorta the same. The engine isn't all that exciting...but it gets the job done. It does lag a little in the low end, but it has a nice mid range.

I'm 5'10" and I put the seat at its lowest setting and the seat back reclined just a little. I'm one of those guys that sits more upright than most...but in the case of this car, you can't really. Not saying it's uncomfortable, it feels very comfy...just a little more sporty than the height of the car would suggest. The TSX sits really upright and has a bit more headroom in comparison. I blame it on the big fat pretty glass roof of the tC. I like it more every time I see it.

The steering wheel is a little smaller than I remembered(good thing). the grip is slightly less meatier than the TSX. But it's definitley a nice wheel with good steering feel.

I was afraid I wouldnt be able to properly heal/toe...but playing with the brake and gas pedal on the auto, I don't think it will be a problem at all. It feels pretty nice sliding my heel onto the gas for a nice blip. Can't wait to drive a 5 speed.

I'm stil impressed with the interior. My fiance mentioned that the texture makes the dash look kinda dirty. I agreed to an extent. But it's really just the way the texture breaks up the reflective light. That dulling effect is a GOOD thing when driving and probably intended knowing how Toyota likes to put entire gauge pods in the center of the dash for less distractions. It give it a rich feeling for the most part, tho. I always liked the feel of Toyota interiors like my mom's old Celica.

I don't expect much as far as handling goes, but it is pretty nice. It has the same stiffness as the Acura TSX, but the whole car is still not quite as solid. It's hard to explain. I would suggest folks take the TSX for a test drive. If anything, just as a comparison to what an entry level sport sedan feels like. Toyota's own IS300 may not make a good comparison with the 6 cylinders and RWD setup. The TSX is a 2.4 liter FWD car with the weight close to 3200 lbs. It's really remarkable what Honda can do with 4 cylinders!

But getting back to the topic, I really love the car in person. It looks so much better in person. On the computer, it seems kinda funny shaped, but when it's on the lot or the street, it looks like any other car...yet clean and sporty. The lights steal the show. I wasn't sure if they would mesh well with the shape of the body and the front end with the big grills, but they look hot! Definitiely eye-catching. It's interesting enough to look at for the next 10 years, I think.

I want one bad, now. I've driven it twice and I'd love to be able to drive it every day. the only thing I'd do is jam some decent aftermarket spring to drop it on the stock rims/tires...and that's it! That and maybe throw in a REAL sound system. Heh.

Did anyone else notice how small the steering wheel was, or is it just me?

strange more people aren't bothered by the salesman letting somebody go and do 25mph u turns with another persons car!..I have a deposit on one which is supposed to keep it off limits to test drives...shouldn't have to patrol my dealer 24/7 to make sure he isn't letting some idiot(a person who laughs at beating on a car they know belongs to someone else)joy ride and maybe messing with the break in period..if people want to drive these cars hard and the salesmen want to let them...cool...let them do it with a trac/demo vehicle..thats what they're there for..let them stomp on the brakes and run it up to redline all they want...just not in a car with a deposit on it...hopefully there won't be any mystery miles on the tC i have a deposit on when i finally go down to pick it up...are any of you Scion dealers out there driving or letting others drive tC's that people have deposits on?..is that normal?

strange more people aren't bothered by the salesman letting somebody go and do 25mph u turns with another persons car!..I have a deposit on one which is supposed to keep it off limits to test drives...shouldn't have to patrol my dealer 24/7 to make sure he isn't letting some idiot(a person who laughs at beating on a car they know belongs to someone else)joy ride and maybe messing with the break in period..if people want to drive these cars hard and the salesmen want to let them...cool...let them do it with a trac/demo vehicle..thats what they're there for..let them stomp on the brakes and run it up to redline all they want...just not in a car with a deposit on it...hopefully there won't be any mystery miles on the tC i have a deposit on when i finally go down to pick it up...are any of you Scion dealers out there driving or letting others drive tC's that people have deposits on?..is that normal?

Agreed. The whole point of getting a new car (for me anyway) Is to know EXACTLY how it's been driven from the start, and to know that every effort has been taken to break it in properly.

^^^ what the hell. aren't the dealer or salesperson supposed to put a "sold" sign on the car so that it can't be test driven or sold twice? hmmm... makes ya think. anyways, if i buy a new car ill try to get one that is close to zero as possible.

i'm a bit worried about that too. I have the showroom model which, according to my dealer, hasn't been driven by anyone yet. Although I'm sure the dealer guys took it out or a while, considering it had 15miles on it when I bought it. Radio comes in this week and there better not be a single mile over 15 on there or we're gonna have some problems. $500 off to start with. Just gets me irritated at the thought of it.

Thanks to everyone who has posted reviews, very interesting to read, all of them. It seems like more than a few of you were not allowed to drive the car alone.. what's up with that? I don't want to feel intimidated into driving the car like my grandmother.. It's hard to push a car with the salesman next to you.

you can't drive the car alone for liability reasons but it also depends on your salesperson. if the salesperson was smart he/she would tailor fit the test drive to show what the tC can do. a test drive route in a tC shouldn't be the same as a 4runner.

i can't speak for other scion dealers but if our car has a deposit, it can't be driven unless its by the buyer who put the deposit.

what's strange when you guys talk about taking delivery of your tC on monday or this upcoming week. is this their lone car or they have other tC on the lot? if its their lone car all i can say is that dealer won't be getting anymore cars in the future. to be a scion compliant dealer you must have at least one of the three models at your dealership at all times.

yea 143lbs is like having your girl in the passenger seat. :D

haha thats pretty heavy for a girl unless she is tall.

yep tall and I don't like em anorexic either. :wink:

Or it could be a 100 pound girl and her 43 pound bag of ____ she luges around...

strange more people aren't bothered by the salesman letting somebody go and do 25mph u turns with another persons car!..I have a deposit on one which is supposed to keep it off limits to test drives...shouldn't have to patrol my dealer 24/7 to make sure he isn't letting some idiot(a person who laughs at beating on a car they know belongs to someone else)joy ride and maybe messing with the break in period..if people want to drive these cars hard and the salesmen want to let them...cool...let them do it with a trac/demo vehicle..thats what they're there for..let them stomp on the brakes and run it up to redline all they want...just not in a car with a deposit on it...hopefully there won't be any mystery miles on the tC i have a deposit on when i finally go down to pick it up...are any of you Scion dealers out there driving or letting others drive tC's that people have deposits on?..is that normal?

Agreed. The whole point of getting a new car (for me anyway) Is to know EXACTLY how it's been driven from the start, and to know that every effort has been taken to break it in properly.

Thats why I made my dealer take my car to the back of the dealership behind service. It also has only 1 mile on the odometer and all the paperwork was writin up with that in it. If it is delivered with anything more than 5 miles on it I get $20 per mile ;)

i can't speak for other scion dealers but if our car has a deposit, it can't be driven unless its by the buyer who put the deposit.

what's strange when you guys talk about taking delivery of your tC on monday or this upcoming week. is this their lone car or they have other tC on the lot? if its their lone car all i can say is that dealer won't be getting anymore cars in the future. to be a scion compliant dealer you must have at least one of the three models at your dealership at all times.

mine, at least, is their only tC they have in so far. they used it as the showroom car as soon as they got it in. Im pretty sure the out of stock radio thing is partly an excuse so they could keep it over the weekend for all the potential buyers to see it up close b4 they let it go. they may also be using that excuse until they get another one in, so who knows.

strange more people aren't bothered by the salesman letting somebody go and do 25mph u turns with another persons car!..I have a deposit on one which is supposed to keep it off limits to test drives...shouldn't have to patrol my dealer 24/7 to make sure he isn't letting some idiot(a person who laughs at beating on a car they know belongs to someone else)joy ride and maybe messing with the break in period..

Ahem ahem, if i didn't know any better I'd say you were calling me and idiot. First of all, I was exagerating a little bit, it probably wasn't 25mph, it was less. I wouldn't do anything to that car that I wouldn't do to mine. Second of all, if I'm about to dish out $17K for a car, I better know damn well how it handles, so I'm not gonna drive it like my grandma! Finally, I agree, the dealer shouldn't have let anyone drive a car that's already been sold, that's his fault entirely. :roll:

The tC demo wasn't stock (lowered, 18"s, exhaust) so my impressions may be a bit different. It was also an auto. We took it on a little stretch of curves and then the freeway/highway for the test drive.

Engine - It's a Camry engine so I wasn't expecting any surprises and didn't get any. It was powerful and very smooth. Too smooth. The car moved pretty fast but I couldn't "feel" that, just like the Camry. Maybe cuz I drive a Honda or the tC was an auto, but the engine response to the gas pedal wasn't as fast as I'd liked.

Suspension/Handling - It was lowered so my opinion might be off. It handled great on the few curves that I drove through. Gripped really nicely and with little or no roll. Bumps were absorbed nicely without destroying the road feel. A good balance I think because the next point.....

Headroom - If you're 5'9" or higher, you can not drive with your seat upright. I usually have the seat lean 1/3 back so with my setup, I got 2 inches of headroom. People with long torso (body) will have more problems than people with long legs.
If you sit in the back, tilt the backseats and try not to leave them upright for your passengers otherwise tell them to bring a helmet. Rear leg room is good, but headroom is not.

Interior - Good, very good. I love the small steering wheel; feels like it's for racing. The dash and gadgets are nice and clean. Good built quality and very nice front seats. Lots of bolstering and comfort. I like the glass roof alot.

Exterior - Looks $20,000+ but it's not :lol:

Windnoise - LOUD, but that was because we had the windows all the way down on the freeway. :roll: :lol:

I know from the forum that this car got alot of hype as a performance car. If you look at the tC that way, you're gonna be a bit disappointed. Look at it any other way and you'll find that you got alot for your money in a small coupe.

WEEKEND TESTDRIVE

I asked my dad to bring home a camry for me to practice stick on for the weekend. (works for toyota corp) I figured he'd forget and pospone it for next weekend. So when I pull up from being out for the night, I was shocked to see a white tC sitting in my drive way. It had lots of options on it...side airbags, illumination, exhaust, OBX shift knob, sub, XM, 6CD, lip spoiler, cargo net and mats. Enough to bring the car up to 20K. I drive an 03 corolla so my review is based off that.

Exterior- SO nice in person. The lip spoiler was a nice touch to it. Made it easier to close the hatch. The sunroof looked great but open and close. My drive way has a tendency to make your car scrape when pulling out but I managed to get out without scraping...may have problems if lowered.

Interior- Very clean and expencive looking. Very roomy. (although Im quite short) The dash isnt a hard plastic and is actually kind of soft. The steering wheel was comfortable to grab. Guages did its full sweep, (thats the picture where it looking like im redlining and going 140) Found some more little things that made it great. On the knob to make the air hot or cold, there is a little light on the edge and as you turn it, it changes color. when on cold, its blue, then turns orange as you turn and then red when on hot. Seats were very firm and held me in when going around turns. Back was roomy for legs but very short on head room, even when reclined. (but its a coupe, so I expected that) The glass roof was very nice, but the covers were kinda cheep, but i didnt car much since its an inexpencive car. =o) Auto up and down windows were very nice, and my dad tested out the pintch protection. It works so it you have little kids or a dog, they'll be okay. Didn't like the sub. Too much base and was quite annoying so i didnt really listen to the radio much.

Engin- I drive a wimpy corolla so when I got behind the wheel, i felt a lot of power! I'm far from an expert but i though the shifts were pretty close together. Really moved when I punched it, but its also really easy to do some wheel spin, even in 3rd. Very easily to learn on, I should know. TRD exhaust sounded great! Deep but not too loud, very sporty. Liked cruising with the windows down to hear it.

Handling- Car companies have to let their cars have some body roll. So when the tC felt like it had less body roll then an IS i was very happy. (IS300's lean like crazy around tight turns) I took this car on PV Dr. East. (picture posted on another thread) It handeled pretty good. better than my corolla. Didnt get to take it too fast, but around a few turns the tires did squeek some. The 17's really help and grip the road quite nicely. Suspension was pretty tight, pretty smooth over bumps, a little rough on a few but nothing like the celica where you feel everything. Very responcive steering. When lowered may handle even better. The strut bar offered will probably help too.

I enjoyed driving this car a lot. I'm so glad I ordered mine. It was very fun. Can't wait till mine arrives! (it's taking a little boat ride as we speak) =o)[/b]

great review tc4me!!

u sure you dont work for toyota corp?? :lol:

I didn't actually test drive the tC today, but I sat in it and played with the rear folding seats, etc. I'm 6'1" and I fit fine with headroom, but I had to hunch my back & shoulders to look out the front windshield (have to do that with my current car) and doubt I could fit my daughter's car seat in the car. Another thing is the windows aren't tinted and that would need to be done before I put my kids back there and cook 'em alive sitting under that glass (rear deck glass - not the tiny (and I mean tiny) "panorama" sunroof which really didn't seem like a panorama sunroof to me. The roof of the car is so short that both panels together are like a regular sunroof.

I think it's a great car for people under 6' tall and don't need to carry any more than one other passenger. I'm thinking for my needs, I'll stick with the xB and get an after-market panorama sunroof installed. The lack of power of the xB is the only deterrent.

Just my $0.02.

thanx for the info chaps. :D

is anyone going to the tc test drive at full sail university in florida? im going tomorrow morning around 11 or so. hopefully ill see some of you guys there. and finally the wait is over, i can actually see one in person.

No but i am going to school there next year :) i live in AL

^^ cool 8)

test drove an a/t today.

exterior: very nice, clean. the grill does not look as generic in person. shorter length than i expected (anyone else get that?) but that is not necesarily a bad thing i.e. parking.

interior: very impressive for the price, cept what folks have said about the headroom. i am 6' and the roof was pretty damn close to my head even though the dealer tried to assure me i had "plenty" of room. sound system was better than average but it could use some bass/mid/high separation as all speakers seemed to produce a bit too much bass when turned up. someone said the cargo area was roomy, it's not. maybe with the seat folded down, otherwise good for grocery shopping and not too much else.

performance: acceleration was very smooth and pretty responsive on the streets. however once on the freeway, the response left alot to be desired. i am thinking that a m/t might fix some of that but this was one of my biggest dissapointments.

overall impression: a sports car its not. with mods such as the s/c et al, it has alot of potential. but here is my beef. sure it is a great car for the money. but with the s/c, exaust, and what not you are looking at another $3-4k at least. and guess what, your affordable car is now at or over $20k. certainly still not bad but an 04 subaru wrx comes to mind at that price.

I thought about a subaru also but the turbo version, the WRX, is $24,000+ with generally fewer features. It is also ugly IMO. They are great driver's cars though and have AWD if you want that.

Roy

about some of the comments:

I HAVE NOT DRIVEN A tC YET!!!!

headroom: although i have yet to drive one, many people believe that the RSX does not have sufficient hearoom. also, many dont know that the seat is height adjustable, so that could be the solution. im about 6'1" and have plenty of headroom in my RSX. i do not "lean" at all, as i prefer to have a good driving position. **EDIT** after some more research, it seems that the tC and my RSX have nearly identical headroom. must be driver position that's making people think there isnt enough.

pedal placement: i knwo the xB has near perfect pedal placement to me. the RSX does need some improvement compared to it, and unless the optional pedals for the tC are merely clip on's i doubt there would be any improvement.

steering: i drive many different cars daily since i work at a dealership with many varietys. this seems to be the downfall in many. the steering on my RSX is awsome, has great feedback, and the steering wheel may seem small to others that drive my car, but i love it. how's the lock to lock ratio on the tC's?

tires: another downfall because of ride quietness. the stock tires on my RSX went out around 65K, so i replaced them with some $60 kelley chargers. worst decision ever. i drove my friend's non-S RSX with falken azenis sport tires and it felt MUCH better than my S.

styling: the rear end to me is a little frumpy, and the wheelbase looks too extended, but other than that i love it all. ditch the 6 spokes for some nice thick 5-spokes, IMO.

quality: i've never owned a toyota, so this area's kinda iffy to me. honda quality has dropped off significantly lately, as i've had some problems with my RSX. being that it has some of the highest miles in the country(78K) it has had too many problems for me to classify it as "honda quality". build is nice, but some things let me down(mechanically). i rented a solora back in 2001 when i made a trip to california, and at the time i had a 1998 accord v6 coupe. the toyota felt much better, have large aspirations for the tC.

engine: toyota claims a 12chp gain for the axle back exhaust. doubt that. maybe 3chp, max. its already a very straight system, the only constraint being the muffler. the TRD system looks better, but there;s really not much improvement. i've driven a camry with a 2.4 equipped with an automatic transmission that felt like it had plenty of power. im sure with less weight, and a manual transmission, performance can easily be improved. possibly a reason why others felt like it was slow could be because of the torque/hp curve of the engine. in honda's its all about peak power, never mind anything else. the RSX isnt bad at this, as it has a nice flat curve, but has little torque for that matter(140+- lbs ft, crank). an accord with the K24 feels much quicker at higher speeds than my RSX does, and certainly feels quicker than my old accord. about the high-rpm noise increase: if it is anything like my RSX, with an intake, it will REALLY get loud. at low RPM's my RSX is has a nice deep bass tone, but as soon as VTEC hits, watch out! it gets loud, and ALOT faster. hopefully, with its larger displacement, an intake and header will greatly benefit this vehicle. a centrifugal supercharger such as the vortech unit employed on the tC delivers power at higher rpms than a normal supercharger does. something to note.

wow, ive said alot, i need to go and drive it now :lol:


also, it seems through some research that the most direct competitor to it would be the honda accord coupe. they;re much more similar than other cars in its(tC's) class. go to edmunds (http://www.edmunds.com) and try the comparison for yourself.

I test drove an auto tC today.

I went to the dealer just with the intention of looking at the car (I went there 3 days in a row, just to look at the car). I also wanted to get some price quotes. This guy there helped me out (Poway Toyota). There wasn't any additional dealer markup charges so I was happy about that. The guy that helped me out was cool. I told him what I wanted and after I come back from my vacation, I'm going to put a $500 deposit. I'm thinking it will take like 2-3 months for my tC to come.

He asked me if I wanted to drive it, and I was like "Really? I'm only 16." So they took it off the platform and drove it around for me. It was an automatic, the same exact car from my other thread, "Pictures of a blue tC from Poway Toyota, San Diego CA" (
http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17540)

It was an automatic. I wasn't expecting anything spectactular. The car drove smooth, handling wasn't bad, acceleration wasnt bad. I don't think I put my seat to the lowest setting, I just went in and sat down, so I felt a little high. It was really cool because peopl were looking at me. I drove the car around Poway, took it on the free way, and to my house. (Yes, to my house). On the way I called up my friend to tell him to come over to check it out. I got to my house and got my parents out, they like it. My neighbors down the street (Members of Team Hybrid) thought it was pretty tyte. I drove the car back to the dealer and picked up my car. Overall, I was satisfied with the auto. I'm hoping that the 5-spd will have a little bit more kick.

EDIT: It was an 18 mile test drive :D

ha 18 mile test drive. i am going to test drive one on the 3rd :shock:

just got back from the tc test drive at full sail. even though i didnt get to actually drive the car. my cousin did though. the ride was pretty smooth(i was riding in the back) im 6'0, i reclined the seats all the way back. it wasn't as comfortable as i would thought it would be. i dont really care about the back, considering i will only be in the driver seat :D the moonroof covers were flimsy, they seem rather cheap. they should of went with a solid cover instead of the paper thin ones. sitting in the driver seat, it didnt seem all that bad, pretty comfy(only sat in it for like 2 mins). the steering wheel is smaller than what i am used to. IMO, its better for me. so that is a plus. what really surprised me was the trunk space. in the pictures with the seats up. it looks much larger. in person it is rather small, this isnt that much of a problem anyways i almost never put anything in trunk, besides groceries. the wheels looks better than i thought. i might keep them(for a little while) until i get some aftermarket ones. i can't really give my opinion on the handling or performance because i didnt drive it.

all and all, its a great car and i am getting one as soon as it hits here in orlando. my color of choice was indigo ink pearl. the flint mica looked really good in person. much better than the pictures. the azure pearl was really nice as well(a little bit too girlie for me). right now, im probably going to go with the IIP.

well, i finally drove a tC today. it impressed me. i'll be going out to try the other dealerships that sell them in the area later today to see if i cant get a 5-speed.

the car i tested was a non-optioned(at all) tC Automatic. the color was flit mica and it looked very nice. im about 6'1" and weigh in the neighborhood of 150lbs.

Exterior: this was the first thing that i looked at. it was a very nice black color, much like the brilliant black on the new jeep grand cherokees(lots of specks of colors). the paint seemed pretty durable, but only time will tell. the wheel/tire combination looked a little inward, could use some help there from some differently offset/width wheels to help with the look. i looked at the hood gap, and it only looks funny at an angle where you're looking down at it, but in reality, its the same space as the rest of the hood gaps were. all the other panel gaps fit perfectly and had little space inbetween. good quality control at the factory. with the sunroof open, i thought maybe the glass deflector would take a severe beating from stones bouncing off of it, could be a problem. the rear end is alot nicer in person, but more rounded compared with the rest of the vehicle. kinda weird there. overall, i was impressed with the looks of the tC and everything seemed to work well for it. the aftermarket should jump on this thing, its very agressive from the factory.

Interior: i havent had a chance to play with the switchgear, but the sunroof and window operations felt very nice. i didnt like how the sunroof stopped in a few places when going back, or wasnt automatic foward. the one touch front windows were great though. i noticed no wind buffeting on the example i drove. everything operated great.

Seating: i did not like the seats. the front seats were over lumbar supported, and made the side bolsters feel too small. the material looked nice, but it was a bit squishy, which is fine for long trips, but im not exactly into that anymore. the rear seat entry was a bit tricky, felt crammed getting in and out. headroom was good, but only had a few inches to spare, which is fine. the rear seat was great, except when reclined to a far back position. my head felt like it was going to scrub the ceiling a couple of times, but adjusting the rear seat helped. legroom was great! i cant tell you how much the long wheelbase of this vehicle helps it in the back. with the front seats at full back positions, it was very nice, and lots of legroom was available, way more than my RSX. big plus on the interior. i'll get a better feel for the rest of the switchgear when i test another one.

now the fun part :twisted: the test drive

Engine: being a 2.4L with 160hp/tq, it felt very strong. it hauled it's mass very well, and was plently powerful. things could only get better with a 5-speed manual. i would say its every bit as quick as a new accord coupe 4-cylinder, its most direct competitor(except in price). taking a look under the car before the drive showed me that the biggest improvement in the exhaust system is aft of the rear "axle". the muffler looks very restrictive, probably a good 5-6hp to be gained there with a straighter muffler. i doubt the TRD muffler makes anything but sound. in the engine compartment, it seemed very well thought out. the intake is about as good as its going to get, as there's no room for a "true" cold air induction system. might as well just throw a fancy tube and filter on there and call it a day. a heat shield would help alot. the exhaust manifold looks to be the largest restriction of the engine. flat, twisted, close coupled catalytic converter, and looking very cramped, it seems nice equal length tuned runners with a relocated cat would do wonders in this department. gains would be comparable to a Spec-V's gains with a header. bottom end torque was plentlyful, and it was easy to spin or chirp the tires in first gear from a stop. high end seemed lacking, but different camshafts would REALLY help that. my heart dropped when i heard the motor mounts were fluid filled though :( i'd have to fabricate some polyurethane ones just to get that awsome feedback like my RSX.

Transmission: seeing as it was an automatic i didnt pay much attention. shifts were a little to harsh, and downshifts really hurt. i dont like the automatic one bit. seemed very strained. driving very easy on the car would greatly help, and would disguise this problem. i wouldnt try driving it spiritedly though with the automatic.

Suspension: my favorite part of any car. taking a look at it in the lot made it seem like there was a bit of improvement to be had in the stiffness of the springs and size of the antiroll bars. a strut tower bar at each end of the vehicle would help, but the front looked to be a bit tricker than the rear for placement. feel and feedback were great, but there wasnt as much as in my RSX. probably because of the all-season Bridgestone Potenza RE-92's soft sidewall. grip was plentyful and the turning circle was great. dampening was great and it rode over harsh bumps, potholes, and even a dirt backroad like a champ. good tuning here. it was very responsive and fun to drive. i'd definately ditch the stock wheel and tire package, upgrade the springs/dampers, and the antiroll bars. this has tons of potential.

i'll be sure to try to get into a 5-speed ASAP and update this when i do. then its time to hit my favorite curvy road and let you know how it really performs.

Hey folks,
Just came back from the tC Unleashed test drive event here in Orlando. It's being held at Full Sail. I filled out a form, they slapped a wrist band on me and I was taken for a test ride (I'm 20...no driving for me ). Something about the tC just screams boring and plain...compared to the xA and xB. It felt like the tC was the luxury flagship of Scion (it probably is..heh). Mostly everything felt solid...but just felt plain. Like Erica said, the moonroof's cover is cheap. It's like the cargo cover for the xA, maybe thinner. The clock looked cheap, also.

The test drive was barely around the block. It was just a drive around the outside of the Full Sail campus. The ride was smooth...but it was a short ride. It was a fun experience, but I'm not gonna beg my mom to let me trade my xA for the tC... Oh, but I did get some goodies. I got a Scion t-shirt (wooo), a mix cd, the Winter '04 brochuromag©, and a $15 (!!!) gift certificate to my favorite record store, Park Ave CDs.

Hey folks,
Just came back from the tC Unleashed test drive event here in Orlando. It's being held at Full Sail. I filled out a form, they slapped a wrist band on me and I was taken for a test ride (I'm 20...no driving for me ). Something about the tC just screams boring and plain...compared to the xA and xB. It felt like the tC was the luxury flagship of Scion (it probably is..heh). Mostly everything felt solid...but just felt plain. Like Erica said, the moonroof's cover is cheap. It's like the cargo cover for the xA, maybe thinner. The clock looked cheap, also.

The test drive was barely around the block. It was just a drive around the outside of the Full Sail campus. The ride was smooth...but it was a short ride. It was a fun experience, but I'm not gonna beg my mom to let me trade my xA for the tC... Oh, but I did get some goodies. I got a Scion t-shirt (wooo), a mix cd, the Winter '04 brochuromag©, and a $15 (!!!) gift certificate to my favorite record store, Park Ave CDs.

hey, did i see you there??? i was with my two cousins. yeah, the ride was short. i didnt get to drive either. all autos. except for the azure pearl(couldn't drive, display) i got the scion cap. the moonroof covers looked very cheap too me. i sure do hope a aftermarket company comes out with some better ones. stayed there for like a total of 20 mins. they didn't have the black sand pearl, super white or the black cherry. :cry: for display.

the moonroof covers looked very cheap too me. i sure do hope a aftermarket company comes out with some better ones. stayed

ahh something else i noticed but forgot to mention. i didnt like the cover's at all, and although the rear glass roof was cool looking, i'd rather have a real roof and hard cover for the sunroof.

I didn't see anyone there... I was in jeans and a black Mercury Program shirt... I was there around 12. I forgot to mention the interior... I was talking to Kaeon and I told him it looked like ashy skin... Maybe the car was just real dirty?

I found this review on a Mazda forum. It's written by a person, like me, who is considering the Mazda3 and the tC. Anyway...

I test-drove, back-to-back, the brand-new Scion (Toyota) tC 2-door hatchback and a Mazda3s hatch. Had driven the various Mazda3 configurations many times before, but wanted to re-inforce what I knew. NOTE -- this test for both cars was with an automatic, which is all either dealer had. My understanding is that Scion makes their dealers purchase a dedicated tester, which is always an automatic. (Maybe this is standard practice with others too?)

Since you already know the Mazda, I'll focus more on the Scion's traits. I know these aren't equal vehicles but I figure lots of folks will cross-shop the two, given the price/performance similarities.

PERFORMANCE

- Base Scion feels to be about the same accelleration as Mz3. With optional supercharger (bolt-on, and coming in October) the Scion will be much quicker, but price of supercharger will be $2900 - $3300! (Price depends on who does the install, $3300 quote is from the dealer, note that both are factory-warranted but dealer adds his own install warranty on top). That's a lot to pay for an extra 40 hp; no doubt there will be those who will, but couldn't we turbo/super up the Mz3 for less?

- Steering is MUCH heavier than Mz3. Mazda3 steering is a true delight.

- Front of Scion feels nose-heavy in turns, but straight ahead at freeway speed seems a little less "darty" than Mazda. To me, it's the typical Toyota "safe" understeer. I personally would rather get used to the Mazda way.

- Scion's ride is firmer in city driving. Seems much rougher over railroad tracks than Mazda. For some reason seems to smooth out on the freeway, taking expansion joints and lane markers well. But overall I would rate the Mazda a much better engineered ride/handling compromise.

- Scion rattles and flexes a bit more. If you test it, take it over railroad tracks. I blame the sunroof, which is very cool but has such a wide opening, it might be impacting body stiffness.

- Scion braking is excellent, but then so is Mazda's. I would rate the Scion slightly better in pedal feel.

- ABS is standard, as I feel it should be on the Mazda.

- Some of "drumming" sound at freeway speeds that you get with the Mazda hatch. Both cars IMO could use a little more soundproofing.

EXTERIOR

- Scion looks as lumpy from the side as their website pictures make it appear. That high beltline and two-door configuration gives it a little bit of an upside-down bathtub look.

- Nose of Scion looks much better in person than in photos on Web. Nicely done.

- Sides are very bare, tall and slab-like. No moldings or sculpting or anything. You'll either like it or you won't.

- After you're used to the four doors on the Mazda, a 2-door Scion seems awkward.

- Hatch area is large but shallow. Rear seats fold nicely flat. To accomodate the reclining rear seats, there's a tricky adjustment portion to the hatch area cover that you'll either think is very clever, or kludgy.

- Glass of roof is nicely done as one big "sweep" over the car. (Too bad they didn't style the rest of the car....sorry, I just had to say that!!)

- Have you seen the Scion paint selections? To my eye they're bizarre. Their version of every color is many shades darker than the equivalent Mazda color, and there's less of them (7 colors). Their "Flint Mica" is like a blacker Titanium, the "Dark Cherry" is a very dark-blackened Velocity Red and their "Indigo Ink" is a very somber version of Winning Blue. The only light color is "Azure", a kind of goofy talcum-powder blue, and of course there's black and white (a very plain white it is too; looks like a refrigerator). It seems Scion is trying to start some trend of dark, depressing colors just to be different. I would say they look elegant if they did, but they don't, just weird. (Or maybe I just don't "get it"...)

INTERIOR

- Headroom in Scion is VERY tight. I'm only 5'6" and with the seat in an average-comfortable position, I had literally just an inch of room above my head. Makes it cool with the sunroof because it's like, right there, but I think you tall guys are going to have a problem.

- Learned why the Scion boasts reclining seats in the rear -- because there's NO headroom. At 5'6", my head was pushing exactly where the headliner seam touches the hatch glass --- not a very comfortable ride, especially over the aforementioned railroad tracks. You HAVE to recline them to sit up. But to me, reclining the seats in back looks really stupid. Your friends are going to feel wierd.

- Scion dash/door interior materials look higher in quality than the Mazda. The design is much "cleaner", rather than having as many seams/color/texture changes as Mazda. However, the Scion is very stark. No color at all. Even the black-on-silver instruments seem to reject color. It's a deliberate attempt to marry high-quality materials in a very simplistic design. I personally don't favor it. The highly-touted "rice paper" texture of the dash especially seems bland after just a while looking at it. Your eye sort of gets lost in it looking for some evidence of pleasure, kinding of like looking through fog. Surprisingly for a black dash, it's also much more glaring/reflective on the windshield than it should be, due in part to the "waterfall" slope they gave it. Really stupid IMO. I hate glare.

- Scion's silver trim on middle-dash area is excellent quality, better than it looks on the website. Can't tell whether I'd get sick of the little door over the radio or come to love it, but it fits with the very "clean" image. Hate to say it but Mazda dash.interior looks a little junkier after you see the two.

- Middle console doesn't stick into your knee area like the Mazda does. Feels better. I know some of you like the knee rest aspect but I keep wanting to push it out the way.

- No lumbar support adjustment on seat, and they really need it (Scion). Seats are weak in that area. Mazda's feel much better in lower back but Scion's feel OK higher up. (Subaru WRX's feel best of all to me...)

- No interior release for hatch (just in case you thought it might).

- Controls very nicely done.

- Instrument display very nicely done. Looks like a miniature Lexus, if you don't mind no color during the day (it's amber at night).

- No Manu-matic mode on the automatic. The way it's gated makes it not easy to pop it into next gear down for engine braking down a hill. Still like that feature on the Mazda a lot.

- Seat cloth on Scion seems excellent quality. Oddly enough it has a very slight touch of blue to it, which might look funky on a red car


AUDIO

Unable to judge. Scion was so new it didn't have a radio installed. Probably awesome if you customize it enough.

Well, there you have my many opinions. Obviously tons of people at Toyota worked hard to make the Scion look and feel unique on the inside, and of very high quality, but it's almost like they tried too hard. Outside they didn't even try. Steering/powertrain/chassis feels classically Toyota, safe but a little numb. Overall it's a car that to me says "Oh, yeah, they obviously tried to do something different here" in a kind of an "oh, whatever" way (especially with that very stark interior), but in the end, to me it just doesn't have that whimsical fun component that makes it sing, that makes you say "I really want this car".

I didn't see anyone there... I was in jeans and a black Mercury Program shirt... I was there around 12. I forgot to mention the interior... I was talking to Kaeon and I told him it looked like ashy skin... Maybe the car was just real dirty?

hmm.. i left before 12... the cars were dirty on the outside. didnt notice it on the inside. ashy skin??? lol

Finally got to drive one today.. white auto at Keith PiersonToyota/Scion in Jacksonville.

This car is friggin sweet. I ordered a manual and didn't expect much from the auto, but that damn engine is peppy and the throttle response is nice. The options are excellent. This is one clean design...

Handling is excellent and is not in need of immediate spring upgrades. The steering is immediately responsive. The brakes are very solid feeling and quick.

My favorit part.. the sound the door makes when you close it... a nice short "woosh" sound.. no rattling... now that's good quality.

Also..I'm a big guy.. 5'10.. and a stocky 255lbs... but it was still comfortable...nice fit. If you're 5'10' and up you will need to adjust the seat, but no biggie.

btw.. the hood gap is NOT that noticible.. lighten up guys.

My only concerns were the flip cover on the CD player and the sunroof covers.. the cd cover is a bit flimsy and had some functioning issues at first (bastard wouldn't open until I pushed three times), however, a very minor issue and I'm sure you can live with it. As for the sunroof covers, the only type of cover thay could possibly use were the soft vinyl type. This isn't a big issue but I wish it was maybe motorized or had a better latching system.

DON'T let these two minor personal prefernces effect your opinon... this car is worth every penny (just not a $700 doc fee :wink: ).

Overall this car is everything I hoped it would be.

My Black with manual transmission should be here this week sometime.. fingers are crossed. :D

anybody else wishing there were a 6th gear? This isn't exactly a 'test drive' thing, but starting a new thread for it would have been tedious. I'm not too sure if you'd be able to accurately judge w/only a test drive, but after two days of owning the tC, I'm really starting to wish there were a 6th gear for highway cruising. Just to get up to 65mph, you're already pushin 3500rpms (for a 6k redline, that seems a bit high). Just my .02. anyone?

CervezA, I agree with you about your 6th gear idea. I test drove a manual tC yesterday on the freeway and the RPMs are certainly high at 65+ mph. However, I think this is fairly common for cars in this class, even compared to 6-speed manual's. I've always been a fan of the Acura RSX (and still debating to get an RSX over a tC), but I recently read that even the RSX Type-S RPM's will spin up to 3500+ at freeway speeds in 6th gear. The same was true for a Hyundai Tiburon V6 GT when I had it out on the highway in the top gear. I wish I was able to drive the tC more on city streets, but I definitely wasn't very impressed with the performance in the lower gears, although it seems to rebound in the middle to upper RPM's. 3rd gear seemed especially sluggish. The car as a whole, though, was impressive. One test drive didn't cause me to break out my checkbook, but I plan on going back to give it another spin around the block to try to seal the deal for me.

As far as the type s.. that engine is meant for power above 4k rpms. That thing can take a beating. The tC, on the other hand, has been mentioned having good mid-range torque. Not that toyota engines aren't build as well, but hondas can take a much harder drive.
From what I've noticed, 2nd gear has the best acceleration, 3rrd is a bit weak, but 4th compensates for it somewhat. After driving my sister's type S for the last 3 days or so before I picked up my tC, I can honestly say I'm happier w/the tC. It shifts much smoother, the stock system sounds much better, and I prefer the appearance of the tC over the rsx.

yes, at 65mph, the rpm's are at 3000. but that's nothing. thats the normal shift point. look at where the redline's at... 7900rpm's. on the highway, im normally going about 80-85mph and its only revving to 4000-4500rpms. in 5th gear, its weird, the tach and the speedo are at the same positions :lol: in traffic, revving to 3K in my car is nothing at all. its normal. you have to rev to about 2K just to get it moving, and after about 2500rpm's the torque curve is plain flat, but there's just not enough torque(142lbs/ft at crank). revving to 3500rpms is nothing when the redline is more than twice that. in traffic, i usually tool around 5K rpms just so i can hit VTEC for some passing power. below the 5800rpm switchover, the RSX feels just like a civic. i get anywhere from 250-320 miles on a tank of gas in the city. i've seen 400 miles per tank a few times driving to my relatives place in nebraska. only problem is it takes premium :evil:

i really love the shifter in my RSX, although that stupid gear grind is coming back. im glad acura sent out a TSB about it and fixes it for free. already had it fixed once though, and its just annoying.

also, on the type-s, the factory bose subwoofer has its polarities switched from the factory. merely reverse the positive and negative wires leading to the amp/sub and it will sound a million times better.

Im not going to post any specs, or silly reviews we've heard a thousand times before......I just want to say I had an orgasm cornering a corkscrewesk' road.

Im not going to post any specs, or silly reviews we've heard a thousand times before......I just want to say I had an orgasm cornering a corkscrewesk' road.

That's a good thing right?
lol j/k

I test drove a tC yesterday and liked it very much--but I have a real problem with the roof.

The car I drove had been sitting in the sun for a while with the windows up. When I sat in the driver's seat I could feel heat radiating from above. I put my hand on the ceiling and felt the flimsy vinyl cover that shades the moon roof. It was very hot to the touch and when I retracted it I could see the problem--no insulation what so ever. The sun comes in through the glass roof and the heat is trapped by the greenhouse effect. There is no way to have a rigid sliding panel like my Camry has because that would obscure the rear moon roof. The shade has to roll up into the small space in front of the rear moon roof so it has to be thin and flexible. The roof also reduces headroom, as all moon roofs do.

Does anyone have any experience with a roof like this? How do you keep the car cool? What if you just want to sit in the car for a while without running the engine and air conditioning? I think there will be a market for a roof kit to replace the glass with insulated metal panels. I wish they had made the panoramic roof an option instead of standard equipment. They could have made the car less expensive and it would be a better car--cooler, quieter, lighter, more rigid, and with more headroom.

I wish they had made the panoramic roof an option instead of standard equipment. They could have made the car less expensive and it would be a better car--cooler, quieter, lighter, more rigid, and with more headroom.

This is exactly how I feel as well. It's a nice feature, but I really wouldn't want it on my car. Like you said all of the things it does to the car- hotter, louder, less ridigity and less headroom, aren't worth the "coolness" of it. It makes me wonder how much less expensive Scion could have made the car without the roof. I would have rather had one conventional sunroof or nothing at all. I also wonder how that roof will fare in crash tests or in the unlikely event of a roll over. We'll see.

On a side note- for the people who have driven the 4AT and the 5spd, is there a noticeably big difference in the acceleration between the two? I wouldn't say the acceleration on the 4AT felt like it was much better than my Camry, and I definitely want something faster than that.

-Michael-

If you look at hatchback vehicles which also have a moonroof, there is really only about 18 inches where there is no roof/back glass. So I don't mind having an all glass roof (hopefully I will be saying the same thing once I get mine).

Kevin

this is for the people that actually owns the tc.. can you confirm the actual size of the light bulbs. ive only heard rumors. is it the 9005 and 9006?

i won't put a deposit down on the car until i actually drive the 5spd.

and one thing i forgot to mention. i think the seats were a little overstuffed to my liking... anyone feel the same way?

Someone in another thread posted the bulb info from the manual. Search should help.

About the seats, like I posted in this thread, they fit me like a glove. However, I'll withhold the final verdict until at least a 2-3 hour nonstop drive to check for pressure points. My worry is that they'll be too soft and develop pressure points, but due to the design that holds you in place there won't be a chance to change position easily.

well i read the other threads and they are not cold hard facts about the actual size. i've only sat in the driver seat only for about 3 minutes. they are comfortable but i dont know if they are good for long trips. so when you do get back from that 3 hour or so trip. please post how you felt about it. :)

I drove an automatic Scion tC in Azure Blue and I liked it a lot. Plenty of room, nice ride (sporty but not harsh) and a good deal of power. The ride was similar to the Mazda3, with maybe a bit less road noise and harshness over sharp bumps. With the windows and roof closed it was very quiet with virtually no wind noise. The auto was ok, but it will be much better with the manual. It had a tendency to upshift too soon at part throttle. You really had to nail it and keep it there for it to keep it from upshifting. I guess that's why the auto has higher EPA gas mileage figures than the manual (which is uncommon.) The interior materials were very nice, and I think I liked the dash and console a little better than the Mazda3. It's a little cleaner but equally distinctive. I like the "rice paper" texture on the dash and doors. It gives the plastics a nice matte finish and is pleasing to the touch. It might also hide some dust, which would be nice. The seat fabrics seem high quality, with a black sporty checked insert on all the seats (similar to the Mazda3 or Mazdaspeed Protege.) I sat in the back seat and it would be ok for people my size (6', 240 lbs) or smaller for short trips (much better than my MX-3, for instance,) but I wouldn't subject anybody to a long road trip back there. And three people across in the back is wildly optimistic, unless they're under 10 years old.

Anyway, my Black Cherry Pearl with 5-speed should be here before the end of July. If it comes in and I decide I don't want it I can always get my deposit back. No side air bags, they're kind of hit-or-miss at this point. I probably would have paid for them, but I would have to wait an extra month or two to get them on the car I want.

Oh, and I don't know if I'll get the 18" wheels (as the standard 17"s look better in person than in the pictures) but it sounds like they'll give me a good deal (~$1600 with tires) if I want them. I don't believe I'd get a credit for the stock wheels though.

Took home a 5 speed flint mica TC with side air bags yesterday.

Apparently I was first in line at our "local" Scion dealership (245 miles away) to get a tC. They had no problem selling me their first tC right off the truck. When I got it, the only miles on the car were from the mechanic. The dealership was pretty big, they sold Subaru, Nissan, Mazda, Toyota, Scion, etc.. and salesmen from all of them rushed up to talk about the car when I took it for a spin. Even the owner of the dealership shook my hand and complimented me on the car. Very cool indeed.

1. The stock stereo.
I read quite a few posts saying the stock stereo was weak. It far surpassed my expectations for a stock stereo (I wasn't expecting much, I've never had a car that came from the factory with a stereo that was worth a crap)... I think some people's expectations have been far to high. I would say that this system sounds as good as the Mach 1 system in my friend's Ford Explorer; you've just got to play with the settings a little. Check out the SSP button, it'll add some thump to the music, but might cause a little distortion at real high volumes (I think it's labeled SSP, my memory isn't so great. Anyhow, the button is on the left, use it if you're taking the car for a test drive and have some tunes to listen to)

The door for the head unit hasn't really grown on me yet.. it's not all that easy to open. Maybe that'll change as I use it more, Idunno. A couple times I had to push on the door so hard to open, it pushed the FM radio button while I was listening to a CD. What would really benefit this car would be volume and track controls on the steering wheel so at least basic stuff on the radio could be operated with the door closed. When I was first driving the car, I kept wanting to increase the volume with the fan speed control when the head unit's door was closed.

2. Suspension.
Not bad. Better than expected.. At the car's weight, I expected the suspension to be about like my girlfriend's Altima, but there is no comparison; it feels MUCH more solid, very fun to drive. My Celica handles better, but the ride in the tC is so much more comfortable. I would say that it's an excellent compromise between road feel and comfort. I've ordered TRD springs and shocks, and the front strut tower bar.. can't wait for them to come in to see the difference they make.

3. The sun shades.
I haven't closed them for more than 5 minutes since I got the car. They're like I expected them after reading the posts. There are little spots along the sides where some light can come through, but it wasn't any big deal to me. Since the roof remained fairly quiet, I never really had the urge to shut them, which brings me to my next point:

4. Wind noise.
Hardly any. Even at highway speeds - 70-80 mph - the wind noise was very low; with a the stereo on at a quiet volume, I couldn't hear it. The moon roof in my celica was crazy loud even at 45mph with the shade open. Needless to day, I'm happy with how well the glass roof seals.

5. Power/acceleration.
I can't really say much about speed/acceleration. The only tC I've driven is my own, and I'm still suffering through the break-in period. The first couple hundred miles were torture, having to shift before reaching peak torque. Now I'm revving a little higher, but hardly ever getting above 4500 RPM.. just as the feels like it's really pulling, I've gotta shift. I keep telling myself it'll be worth it later. I love 2nd and 3rd gear, they pull pretty hard. First gear seems really short. When turning at a stop sign, it seems like I'm always shifting in the middle of my turn. I guess it wont be a problem after I feel more comfortable taching it a little higher.

Civic drivers don't know what they're missing, the torque down low is great. Getting up hills and passing doesn't require a downshift. Even at 40mph in 5th gear, I just give it some gas and accelerate, no down shifting required: great when you're feeling lazy.

The car revs higher in every gear at most speeds than my girlfriend's Altima. I'd want to drive a tC with an exhaust before getting one for myself; I'm afraid the higher average RPM will annoy me combined with the amplification from an aftermarket exhaust.

well... i didnt get to drive the tC but i rode in one. i think this dealer is really protective of their new cars and so the dealer is only allowing people to drive if they're ready to buy. im not ready to buy yet..... anyways here are my impressions

the ride was smooth. very quiet.
i dont know about the panoroof yet cuz it was raining so i couldnt open it.
the seats were stiff. itll probably loosen up after a few sit - downs but it will take a bit to get used to.
the "rice paper" dash did feel kinda funny... ive never had any experience with this material so im not sure how cleaning would go.
even with the black interior, with the roof being all glass and such.. the car felt very open. this might have had something to do with the way the dash and windshield were. the dash seemed long. anyone who's ever been in a vw new beetle knows what thats like.
trunk was smaller than i thought but still enough for my sub box when im ready for it. i may build a new one just cuz i could save a lil space that way.
my mom sat in the back seat... she says she didnt feel the "metal bar" some people were complaining about so iono about that one.
the car was automatic but we could feel that extra tq so it was a pretty big difference from my civic.
the dealer did mention that the manual has a lot more pep to it though.... but im sure u all assumed that already.

anyways... ill be back with a more indepth review and pics. i may go either wednesday or thursday morning.... definitely friday to hopefully pick up my indigo ink tC!

one more thing... i forgot to mention the shades for the roof. they seem like if u abuse them theyll fall apart but if ur calm about opening and closing them... theyll last. it is spring loaded so u cant open it half way... its either full open or full closed. like i said... be calm about opening. dont just let it snap back.

with the shade open and the sr closed the car was still dead quiet.

find me on aim if u have any questions. ill try to answer them to the best of my ability.
aim - lvl7civic

Well! This review below makes me want to get one! (more at the bottom).

WEEKEND TESTDRIVE

I asked my dad to bring home a camry for me to practice stick on for the weekend. (works for toyota corp) I figured he'd forget and pospone it for next weekend. So when I pull up from being out for the night, I was shocked to see a white tC sitting in my drive way. It had lots of options on it...side airbags, illumination, exhaust, OBX shift knob, sub, XM, 6CD, lip spoiler, cargo net and mats. Enough to bring the car up to 20K. I drive an 03 corolla so my review is based off that.

Exterior- SO nice in person. The lip spoiler was a nice touch to it. Made it easier to close the hatch. The sunroof looked great but open and close. My drive way has a tendency to make your car scrape when pulling out but I managed to get out without scraping...may have problems if lowered.

Interior- Very clean and expencive looking. Very roomy. (although Im quite short) The dash isnt a hard plastic and is actually kind of soft. The steering wheel was comfortable to grab. Guages did its full sweep, (thats the picture where it looking like im redlining and going 140) Found some more little things that made it great. On the knob to make the air hot or cold, there is a little light on the edge and as you turn it, it changes color. when on cold, its blue, then turns orange as you turn and then red when on hot. Seats were very firm and held me in when going around turns. Back was roomy for legs but very short on head room, even when reclined. (but its a coupe, so I expected that) The glass roof was very nice, but the covers were kinda cheep, but i didnt car much since its an inexpencive car. =o) Auto up and down windows were very nice, and my dad tested out the pintch protection. It works so it you have little kids or a dog, they'll be okay. Didn't like the sub. Too much base and was quite annoying so i didnt really listen to the radio much.

Engin- I drive a wimpy corolla so when I got behind the wheel, i felt a lot of power! I'm far from an expert but i though the shifts were pretty close together. Really moved when I punched it, but its also really easy to do some wheel spin, even in 3rd. Very easily to learn on, I should know. TRD exhaust sounded great! Deep but not too loud, very sporty. Liked cruising with the windows down to hear it.

Handling- Car companies have to let their cars have some body roll. So when the tC felt like it had less body roll then an IS i was very happy. (IS300's lean like crazy around tight turns) I took this car on PV Dr. East. (picture posted on another thread) It handeled pretty good. better than my corolla. Didnt get to take it too fast, but around a few turns the tires did squeek some. The 17's really help and grip the road quite nicely. Suspension was pretty tight, pretty smooth over bumps, a little rough on a few but nothing like the celica where you feel everything. Very responcive steering. When lowered may handle even better. The strut bar offered will probably help too.

I enjoyed driving this car a lot. I'm so glad I ordered mine. It was very fun. Can't wait till mine arrives! (it's taking a little boat ride as we speak) =o)[/b]
I didn't test drive one, but sat inside for a while - not long though.

The outside -- in photos I thought were okay - but in person, there are little details that make me go "nice..."

The inside -- I thought immediately felt very expensive. Very very nice. Again, I didn't get to sit in it too long, but I did try out the seating adjustment. I'm not that tall, so it's fine for me. In fact what struck me was how much it felt like a coupe. From the outside it looks like a sedan -but with 2 doors :D Inside, I thought this might be what a Celica feels like -- I'm sold that it's a coupe after all!

Seat adjust -- okay, it seemed to me the height adjust is only the front part of the seat under your knees. Since it's a coupe (and not my xA), the seat should be reclined back. I test this by adjusting the seat forward for my left foot to be able to clutch effectively (pretending there's a clutch - it was an auto) - and comparing arm positioning to the steering wheel. I want my wrists to be just about at wheel level when my shoulders are pressing against the seat.
It took me a while to do this - this was practically all I did. I adjusted the seat height (knee height) in relation to the back recline, the steering wheel tilt, and the seat slide position forward until I got it! It definitely fits me! The seats are quite soft, and grippy also -- I'm guessing good for those lateral forces when cornering.

What I like about the review above is the comparison to the IS, which I test drove one from a friend who had one - and I know the feeling... (of which thereof she speaks) Also, I would want to drive the tC on twisty roads as mentioned above -- that's what I like to do now on the xA.

Yes... I am won over I think. Not sure I'm a candidate to be getting one any time soon... but I definitely like the car.

My advice - don't forget that it's a coupe - so although there may be legroom in back, don't expect to live there like in an xB.

I finally got in one today.

Looks great in person. Badges look somewhat cheap, but that can be changed with a bit of paint. Rims look nice. Trunk space is more than I thought it would be after everybody said it was tiny, but just as big as I imagined it originally. Everything expected in terms of looks. Smooth car.

Upon close inspection, the only things that immediately irked me throughout the car were the feel of the stereo door, the glovebox, and the sunroof shade (of course), along with the fact that the hatch didn't sound as good when closing compared to the doors (which sound damn nice). I noticed the support material under the trunk is styrofoam. Seatbelt is (much) too far back. Volume controls on the stereo do, indeed, suck. Minor things.

Comfort. Though the "cockpit" is very different than my Camry (more knee room, straighter wheel position), it is very nice once gotten used to (very quickly). Nice steering wheel - small, indeed, but really nice. Seats are comfortable, front and rear. Headrests tilt, at least in front. Driver's seat goes every which way. Seatbelt is too far back, as mentioned, due to the long doors, but oh well. Nice gauge layout. Can't see the hood from the driver's seat. Didn't notice any headroom issues (though I am only 5' 8.5"). Overall pretty damn good.

On to the drive. Acceleration was very good (although the auto had weird shift points at times - won't matter), as was braking and overall handling. Brake pedal feel was very firm and responsive, and lane changes were quick and decisive (blinker stalk is in a great position, too). Not much body roll around curves, but a bit more pitch (I think) than expected. Easy fix. Ride comfort was very nice. A bit more wind noise than I expected, but I was doing 80 MPH very comfortably. Overtaking was effortless, as it should be.

Overall, a very nice car, not to mention for $17,000. A few tweaks and it will be even more pleasing.

well..... i actually drove the tC today at another dealership. wasnt a long test drive at all and i didnt take the car beyond 3.5k rpm.
even in automatic form... the car seemed eager to get moving. the torque is noticable from the start compared to the 01-04 civic lx auto. at about 45-50 mph with the sunroof open i didnt notice any whistles or any other strange sounds.
brakes worked well... no complaints here.

i took some pics... ill edit this post with pics in a bit.

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=208750#208750

********fixed the link again

Well i just drove a silver tC with the auto tranny(the only tC on the lot). The dealer was really nice..even though i told them i just started a new job and wouldnt be able to purchase one for a few months they were still really helpful. I just took the car on some backroads behind the dealership. I was impressed with the room inside the car...im 6'6 205lbs so im not small by any means and leg room is usually an issue but i had enough in the tC. I was only able to take the car up to 40-45MPH but it seemed quick. Fit and finish seemed very nice(but im only 20 and havent driven too many cars)

:twisted:

was just wondering why do you think the tC rates so poor?
It might be because it's running on stock components but.....
Like my 97 Camry inline4 (stock) engine, all i had to upgrade
so far is the cateback, coilovers, allround struts/shocks, tires,
and intake.......
with just that little bit, i get mad handling.......not to forget,
i scare the living **** out of friends riding along going 90-105
on some mean curves without breaking pedal to the ground in
most cases.........

So.......so much for giving a test drive "rating", not that i'm trying to
be rude......but no one goes stock even if they only have intake and
some tires to go on.

:twisted: