i'm looking at a flint tc with side airbags as soon as i can my hands on one. but before that, i need to choose between auto or manual. i'm not the one that needs convincing though, its my dad. personally i want the stick so please throw out some pros and cons for auto vs stick.

man, do a search. This has been discussed extensively for the xA/xB, and it's the same debate, even applied to the tC.

Basically, full performance/economy, go manual
Most practical, go auto, especially if you have lots of traffic
But if you get manual and hate it, you will suffer
If you get auto and hate it, you will deal.

Some argue some other controversial junk, but that's the jist of it, it's been that way for years, and it hasn't changed a whole hell of a lot. It might sometime soon, but not yet.

This one girls dad at my school made her get a stick truck, she said "Yea, he got me a stick because he wants me to pay attention when I drive, and not get distracted with a cell phone or make up or something..." So you can tell him, 'yea if I get a stick, I cant talk on a cell or put on make up when I drive cuz I would have to shift, and that will help me pay attention to the road."

You can tell him the manual is cheaper... although insurance will be slightly higher.

Or just straight up say "Yo pops, I dont want no automatic, automatic is fo' whimps yo"

EDIT: If you live in san fran, get the auto cuz of those crazy hills.

I'm not homo-bashin, but you could threaten to turn ___ if you buy auto if you really want it. . . after-all, it's the number one fear for the majority of fathers. :lol: But seriously, Dad's are stubborn, good luck convincing him. If you're getting a flat out race car, or a car that's underpowered, I'd understand the case from your side, but considering the "grown up" perspective, he's got a really solid case. Assuming you are a new driver, since your dad has a big say, you really should be in an auto, no offense. And since you want to convince him, you probably don't want to gather any cons either.
The biggest case you can realistically make against him, is to say that the manual is slightly better in gas mileage(in the xA/xB this doesn't apply, I"m not sure about the tC) but in most cases it's true. Site the soaring gas prices, and how much he will have to pay in gas, and your potential "huge" savings. Also site that with engine braking, you won't have to replace brake pads as often, which are the most commonly replaced parts, along with air filters, oil & filters, and tires. It'll be a "substantial" savings. If he brings the clutch arguement on you, say that Toyota clutches have been known to outlast the car(if you don't abuse it). This is all absolute crap, but it will help your case. Realistically the only reason you would want a manual is for performance gains, that's about it. Speak "dad" talk, speak "money savings." You will win.

Manual tranny = A drivers car
Auto tranny = A grocery getter'

On a serious note... Manual you have more control of the car. Especially during mountain driving, acceleration, etc.

Also, everyone should know how to drive manual, because you never know when you might have to be a DD and take someone home in their car... it never fails, it will be a manual. :shock:

Choice is yours, but real cars don't come with auto's... dig up Henry Ford and ask him. :wink:

the car gets better gas mileage with an automatic thats kinda odd.
Mileage Estimates (MPG City / Highway)
Manual 22/29
Automatic 23/30

manual for me. i can never drive a auto, way too boring.

i'm looking at a flint tc with side airbags as soon as i can my hands on one. but before that, i need to choose between auto or manual. i'm not the one that needs convincing though, its my dad. personally i want the stick so please throw out some pros and cons for auto vs stick.

Your dad doesn't want you to drive fast or stall when you miss a gear, that's why he wants an auto. Can't blame him for being worried about those things. BTW, why do you want a manual? Are the reasons you want it the same reasons he wants an auto?

I get so sick of the "Manual is a drivers car" talk. I love to drive and guess what? I drive an auto. I also live in a big city with a lot of traffic. I don't want to have to worry about switching gears all the time. It's one less thing I have to worry about. What's wrong with that?

You guys go get off on shoving around a phalic symbol with your right hand. I think I am going to just sit back, relax, and drive. :wink:

Nope you're wrong. I used to use your exact same argument until I got my first manual... and I will never go back.

If you like driving, get a manual. Stop rationalizing and just do it.

The gears become second nature, you won't even think about it in traffic.

There's nothing "wrong" with driving automatic, but don't pretend its the same. Because it's not. And somewhere, deep down inside, you know that. :lol:

manual isnt hard to drive at all. once you have mastered first gear. all the other gears is easy. with an auto, it is harder to control which gear you want to be in. like if you want to down shift, all you can do is slam the gas. and what fun is that? but as for manual, you control exactly where you want to be in the rpm range and when you want to shift.

all this auto manual talk. I can't decide darn it! :x

Stick...

It's kewler to drive stick ;p

But really... It's fun to downshift and then floor it in a manual when your cruising on the highway to pass someone... Then go threw all the gears... Man thats fun...

Doing it in an auto is... Boring... Woop-de-f-ing-do... You mash on the gas... And thats pretty much it...

yea but the manual tC doesn't have that cool template, grid, thing the atomatic tC has. The manual just has a shoe I believe its called. If it had the cool grid thing I'd get a manual. :D cos I'd be shifting in style. 8)

The manual just has a shoe I believe its called.

I believe that it's called a boot, not that its important

I live in New York, and automatic is the only thing for me to get. So judge by what is more convenient for you and not what is cooler.

well that shoe is the only thing in the way of me getting a manual. :wink:

man, do a search. This has been discussed extensively for the xA/xB, and it's the same debate, even applied to the tC.
i did a google search but it didn't gimme the response i wanted; my bad, i forgot about the other forums. btw, thanks for all these responses.

i live in the bay area, so traffic can get slow at times, but nothing compared to LA traffic... cars in the fast lane( not carpool ) would still average around 60.
about fuel economy, does anyone know how accurate the estimated figures are? its hard to believe that the automatic is getting more unless it was a very good design and the manual transmission was a piece of crap. he already knows a manual saves gas so i could just bring it up, no convincing there needed.

Your dad doesn't want you to drive fast or stall when you miss a gear, that's why he wants an auto. Can't blame him for being worried about those things. BTW, why do you want a manual? Are the reasons you want it the same reasons he wants an auto?
i want a manual for the control. for example, on an old 93 accord auto, when trying to downshift before making a lane change on the freeway, i find myself getting no response or a late response by just slamming on the pedal. i got sick of that and just slammed the transmission from D4 to D3... which can't be good for the tranny. which is fine cause that's a beater car anyways but i wouldn't wanna be doing that on the tc.

If you like driving, get a manual. Stop rationalizing and just do it.
i love driving.

any other points besides gas mileage and lower cost of the car?

4 years ago i bought my focus with an auto. had to cuz my moms car was going to be in the shop for a month while it waited on a part from germany. to this day, my mom has driven my car ONE time. i've regreted every single day for not getting a 5spd. hopefully you don't make the same mistake i did.

Insurance isn't exactly higher for manuals either...

Since the car is 800 dollars cheaper and most manual drivers tend to be better experienced drivers... They might actually get a cheaper insurance quote then automatics...

The fact that the automatic for the tC is sportshift-like helps the manual insurance rate... My guess is that in most cases it will be lower then automatic for tC

tell your dad its better if you get a manual now and live life, because as soon you get married and have kids you'll have his and hers automatics. :wink:

i'm pretty sure he's worried that you'll race a manual car more than a auto.

Your dad doesn't want you to drive fast or stall when you miss a gear, that's why he wants an auto. Can't blame him for being worried about those things. BTW, why do you want a manual? Are the reasons you want it the same reasons he wants an auto?
i want a manual for the control. for example, on an old 93 accord auto, when trying to downshift before making a lane change on the freeway, i find myself getting no response or a late response by just slamming on the pedal. i got sick of that and just slammed the transmission from D4 to D3... which can't be good for the tranny. which is fine cause that's a beater car anyways but i wouldn't wanna be doing that on the tc.


So have you used that reason (control) as a bargaining point with him? What does he say? BTW, isn't that what D3 is for on the auto?

i guess all scion cars have shorter final gear ratio in manual than auto. that makes the manual use same or more gas compare to auto. in term of fuel economy, guess you should get an auto.

i live in SF, still thinking xA vs tC, but that's another topic. for xA i will get manual (fun to drive), for tC, i will get auto (save some gas). but i do worry about those killer hills in SF (imagine a roller coster breaks its pulling chain).

I have an auto, while it may not be a "racy" as a manual I like being able to just sit back & relax.

The Auto TC still has prenty get up & go. The best thing about this car is not the horsepower or torque but the way it takes coners sooooooooooooooooooooo sharp its like driving a go cart.

From what we've read so far it appears that the auto and manual tC's have an unusually large performance gap between the two of them... larger than most cars.

you know what you have to do. :wink:

i guess all scion cars have shorter final gear ratio in manual than auto. that makes the manual use same or more gas compare to auto. in term of fuel economy, guess you should get an auto.

i live in SF, still thinking xA vs tC, but that's another topic. for xA i will get manual (fun to drive), for tC, i will get auto (save some gas). but i do worry about those killer hills in SF (imagine a roller coster breaks its pulling chain).

Actually, you have to read the very fine print below the estimated fuel economies... they are just estimates. You will get better gas milage out of a manual, especially in a hilly location like SF. All the cars I have ever owned have gotten at least 2-3mpg better than the sticker... but then there are the autocross days, that i have gotten half of what is on the sticker too. :wink:

To read more check out: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

yea but the manual tC doesn't have that cool template, grid, thing the atomatic tC has. The manual just has a shoe I believe its called. If it had the cool grid thing I'd get a manual. :D cos I'd be shifting in style. 8)

Same problem with the IS300. The manual should have been a stainless steel gated plate, with a metal rod and a chrome ball on top.. you know, old school ferrari style.

The manual should have been a stainless steel gated plate, with a metal rod and a chrome ball on top.. you know, old school ferrari style.

Man that would have been cool... hmm, neat mod...now I just have to find a donor ferrari.. 8)
But if you have ever driven a car with a gated shifter like that, they are a royal pain, especially if you try to get agressive with it and miss a shift... however, there is nothing like the clink of a metal shifter being slapped into the gate....

Ahh, I miss my Ferrari. (in my dreams) :)

I get so sick of the "Manual is a drivers car" talk. I love to drive and guess what? I drive an auto. I also live in a big city with a lot of traffic. I don't want to have to worry about switching gears all the time. It's one less thing I have to worry about. What's wrong with that?

You guys go get off on shoving around a phalic symbol with your right hand. I think I am going to just sit back, relax, and drive. :wink:
It's not our fault you can't figure out how to move a stick around while using your left foot. Manual drivers don't need to make excuses as to which transmission they chose.

Maybe he wants to drive it too. :D

Manual: what everyone has said.

Auto: Anyone can drive it, even your pops. If you are drunk, and your peeps cant drive a stick do you really want them to blow the tranny? :shock: :x

Auto: Anyone can drive it, even your pops. If you are drunk, and your peeps cant drive a stick do you really want them to blow the tranny? :shock: :x

I don't know about you but I really don't like it when people drive my car...

And shouldn't you think ahead about getting drunk? So you don't need to think after? ;p Go get a designated driver $$ ;p

Hahaha true! My car is auto, and I won't let anybody touch it, I'd rather it get ticketed than some dumb ___ try to drive it. . . and my 5spd xA(delivered tomorrow YESSSSS) won't be any different. If I plan on drinking, I don't bring my car.

But yeah, it seems that people get pretty emotional about this topic, hahaha. I don't know about "manliness" of a manual, but the performance gains are there, but an auto these days gets damn close, and if I had to deal with nasty traffic I would get an auto no question, but otherwise it's manual for me. . . unless it's got a decently powerful engine(above 240hp) AND it's not a sports car, I would get auto. Anything under is too underpowered for me to take an auto, and I'd rather have a stick. If it's got enough power, the manual isn't gonna make that huge of a difference for me. And if it's a sports car, then I'd reverse the previous and take a manual. . . dunno if that made any sense at all :? but anyway, there's a saying that it's more fun to drive a slow car hard than a drive fast car easy, and with a slow car, a manual definitely improves that. But auto has some huge advantages. As you can probably tell, the question is a good one, and it won't ever be solved in a forum, as both sides will argue it to death. This is something you gotta decide for yourself.

I like manual, like what was previously said, you have more control of the car, and driving is more enjoyable. I will be driving manual for the rest of my life, or at least until I get really old and buy an auto. Auto does too much for you, put it in reverse, you don't even have to gas and it goes back for you. I can understand why people would choose an auto, but I like stick. No matter what you drive, auto or stick, everyone should know how to drive stick. You never know when your going to need it... for example your getting a ride from like your friend, whos driving sick, but he all of a sudden has a seizure and your in the middle of no where with no cell phone, and you know where the nearest hospital is, and you can drive his car to the hospital.

Or lets say some big friggin expolsion happens, and there is a big wall of fire coming towards you, if you run, your dead. But you see a manual car within foot steps of you, doors open, no one in there. If you know how to drive manual, you can get in the car and drive away before the big wall of fire engulfs you.

I don't like people who are the racer-type and try to race you in an auto.

Get a FIVE SPEEEED.

haha wow. i didn't mean for this thread to turn into a controversial issue or anything. i just wanted to know some pros and cons so i have more to convince my dad with.

THANKS GUYSSSSSS.

No one has commented that you can go quicker off the line. Just rev that engine, pop that clutch and you'll leave everyone behind you as soon as that light turns green. Just watch out for red light runners. If you're looking into a tC, I think it makes more sense to get a stick cause it's more bang for the buck (which to me is what the tC is all about). Manual transmissions also need less costly repairs later on. Replacing the clutch should be the most costly transmission repair you'll ever need.
You can squeel your wheels with any old stick shift vehicle, but with an auto you need a powerful car.
Aren't sticks always faster than auto versions of the same car?

Aren't sticks always faster than auto versions of the same car?

Yes, every time. Unless you count the automatic seguential manuel gearboxes. Those shift faster than any human can.

[quote="Wes"] No matter what you drive, auto or stick, everyone should know how to drive stick. You never know when your going to need it... for example your getting a ride from like your friend, whos driving sick, but he all of a sudden has a seizure and your in the middle of no where with no cell phone, and you know where the nearest hospital is, and you can drive his car to the hospital.

Or lets say some big friggin expolsion happens, and there is a big wall of fire coming towards you, if you run, your dead. But you see a manual car within foot steps of you, doors open, no one in there. If you know how to drive manual, you can get in the car and drive away before the big wall of fire engulfs you.
quote]

MUHAHAHAHAHA VERY GOOD POINT :D

I have to drive something like 110 miles a day round trip to work. And it is almost all highway, so an automatic would actually be better off for me. Having a 5-speed would be just too tempting, we got so many good ol' boy cops out here in texas, it can suck, especially heading out towards where I work!!!

[quote=Wes]

Or lets say some big friggin expolsion happens, and there is a big wall of fire coming towards you, if you run, your dead. But you see a manual car within foot steps of you, doors open, no one in there. If you know how to drive manual, you can get in the car and drive away before the big wall of fire engulfs you.
quote]

MUHAHAHAHAHA VERY GOOD POINT :D

i think someone's been watching too much ID4... :lol: i do agree with the emergency scenario tho.

yea but the manual tC doesn't have that cool template, grid, thing the atomatic tC has. The manual just has a shoe I believe its called. If it had the cool grid thing I'd get a manual. :D cos I'd be shifting in style. 8)

Same problem with the IS300. The manual should have been a stainless steel gated plate, with a metal rod and a chrome ball on top.. you know, old school ferrari style.

I wonder if the shoe can be removed and a plate thing put on it.

It's all really depending on where you live.
auto - big city , crowded , bad traffic jam all the time , hilly
manual - small city , flat road , no traffic

and It depends on what kind of car you have.
I believe having an auto tC is not that bad; bad if you have an auto S2000 / WRX.
that's ___.

:D Grand Nationals were all automatic :D I think :roll:

the car gets better gas mileage with an automatic thats kinda odd.
Mileage Estimates (MPG City / Highway)
Manual 22/29
Automatic 23/30

I read somewhere the auto has around a 10:1 overall ratio while the manual is 15:1. That should make the manual noticably faster out of the gate, but give the auto more "live-ability" in traffic as well as a slightly better overall gas mileage.

As for automatics being sissified... always remember a properly mapped auto can and often will beat a manual (driver dependant) in a straight line and will almost always turn in more consistant times.

If you want cheap heart pounding gear action, buy a motorcycle and watch while all but the 100k+ cars try and keep up with your 12k investment. Not to mention few if any cars can beat the thrill of mountain riding (we have Deals Gap where I am at).

As for automatics being sissified... always remember a properly mapped auto can and often will beat a manual (driver dependant) in a straight line and will almost always turn in more consistant times.
Yeah, because if there's one thing the tC is, it's a drag racing monster.