What is the proper way to break-in an engine? I heard that some race motors, you would have to rev it in 2nd gear for the first couple miles to seat the piston rings. i doubt you'd need to do that to a factory motor.
And, are the xB motors compatiable with that 20%gasoline/ethanol fuel?

What you don't want to do when breaking in a fresh motor is letting it run at a sustained rpm and load for extended periods of time. That's why cruising on the fwy at a constant speed and rpm immediately after buying your car isn't the best way to break it in. What you DO want to do is to present the engine with the full range of loads and rpms. Contrary to what a lot of people say, you shouldn't just keep the engine under a certain rpm either; it's best to let it rev up in the higher range every once in a while during the break in period. So the best thing to do is to just drive it normally. Don't rev the heck out of it, but also don't be afraid to take it up in the rev range every once in a while in a slow, gradual manner. The majority of your engine's break in will occur during the first 100-200 miles, but just treat your engine well for the first 1000 miles as instructed by your manual and you'll be more than safe.

does one need to replace the oil and filter after those 1000 miles? i would think to remove any metal deposits/shavings during the break in period, or just hold off till 3000?

What is the proper way to break-in an engine? I heard that some race motors, you would have to rev it in 2nd gear for the first couple miles to seat the piston rings. i doubt you'd need to do that to a factory motor.
And, are the xB motors compatiable with that 20%gasoline/ethanol fuel?

the manual says you can use ethanol gas, then it says they don't recommend it....

in California, that is eventually all we will have [once MTBE is eliminated] so it better run on it!

i think running the engine at different rps's is good for breaking it in....

just don't hold a consistent spped for long periods of time....

im going to replace the oil filter the first 1000 miles and then 2000 miles after that, and get back on the 3000 miles change mark. When is a good time to change my oil to synthetic?

I changed mine to synthetic when it was 4500 miles. So you should be fine at whatever mileage you change it at.

I changed mine to synthetic when it was 4500 miles. So you should be fine at whatever mileage you change it at.

why do you need synthetic oil in a new car??

i used oil in my Sable for over 100,000 and it never smoked or leaked or anything.....

I've read multiple stories on synthetic and dino oil. I personally like to get the most out of my 5000 mile oil change intervals so i'll use synthetic coupled with the toyota filter. Am i wasting my money. I don't think so. I drive normally and sometimes i like driving in the 4500-6000 rpm range, where the xB is fun to drive. :) . Personal preference i guess.

well, synthetic oil frees up a little bit of horsepower in your motor and keeps things more lubricated. I did to use Royal Purple in my ae86 but that costed double the price of just regular oil. I had to change the oil and filter every 2000 because of the way i drove that thing.

I flew to San Francisco (8/26) to pick up my car, then drove it back thru the deserts and mountains of Nevada/Utah/Colorado back to Tennessee (2600+ miles and I got 37 to 40mpg w/the cold air intake option). The owners manual suggests varying driving speeds during the first 1000 miles, which I couldn't really do on HWY 50 from Sacramento to Utah. So I just took it easy, didn't rev above 4K rpm. My xB used no oil or other fluids whatsoever. It now has 3700 miles, I plan to change the oil and filter at 5000 miles using a synthetic motor oil, either Mobil 1 or Royal Purple (www.royalpurple.com). The xB is a Toyota at heart, change the oil and maintain it as suggested and it'll run forever!!!

i can almost guarantee that if you take care of the car and change the oil every 3000 with regular oil, and do all the usual service stuff then it will never break down on you. the engine will last 300,000 miles at least if you follow the manufactuerers instructions.

does anyone really expect to keep their xBs that long? i mean, i want to keep mine for as long as i can. but if it starts to trip... then i'll sell it...c'mon guys, 300,000 miles? i bought used cars with 125,000 and still havent made it to 300,00...i will probably make it to 180,000 til i want another car... juss me i guess. i juss dont want to keep the car soooo long til it permanently dies. i want to remember it in its best days....hahah jk

bump for an old thread and added to the tech area

othe related links

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17946&highlight=engine+break

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5630&highlight=engine+break

What on earth is wrong with everyone here??? Come on people.. are you folks really that young???

300,000 miles!!!
I agree with the other post on who on earth keeps a car for 300,000 miles???

2ndly, synthetic oil in an engine that is designed for performance??? Plus on top of that changing oil for a synth car at 5000 miles? Come on now...?

1stly, if you go synthetic, you do so around the 50,000 to 75,000 mile marker or higher pending your driving cycle or style.

2ndly, synth oil changes should occur at 10,000 miles on average. Look at cars that actually require 100% synth oil: Saab, Bmw 540 or M's, Porsche or Vettes... they get changed around 7K or 10K miles.

3rdly: ROYAL PURPLE. What on earth are you smoking. Royal Purple is a racing synth oil that belongs in cars or bikes that get the engine torn down after a few races. RP although being a synth oil leaves poly~ deposits on engine parts that later degrade the life of the engine though it is fine for racing engines since they get ripped apart so often and once apart either parts are replaced or cleaned. RP should never be used in a daily driver or non track car. Call RP if you need further clarification.

4thly: simply changing your oil every 3 to 4k miles is good enough for a 1.5 litre Toyota built engine.

Come on guys..... y'all may be young but dont be stupid and waste your money.

~nB

_edit_

In case you have not looked under the hood of your car: YOU HAVE A 1.5 liter economy 4 cylinder engine that is 108hp. This is not breaking any land speed records. And it was never meant to.

The entire point Toyota came up with this was to make it cheap and economical. Using synth oil is like putting 108 octane racing fuel in your car. You will never reap any benefits from it. This is not a high compression, high revving, high performance engine. This is a cheap cheap cheap economical 4 cylinder engine. you can pride yourself by taking care of it but there is no point in ____ing away $$$.

And if you pride yourself on being able to afford synth oil, why on earth did you buy an econobox like the Scion?

There are a ton of old early to mid 80's Honda's and Toyota's out there that have over 150,000 to 250,000 miles on them that never heard of the word synth. How do you figure that? Regular oil changes yield the same benefits.

Also, not every engine is designed for synth oils. Call the manufacturers, not the dealers, the manufacturers. Being in the USA you can call, BMW in South Carolina, Saab in Georgia, Nissan in Cali, and I believe Merc has a customer friendly place in Jersey. These guys by far are the nicest people to ask technical questions on.

Look at it this way, if you were meant to have synth oil, the factory would have included it in your engine. Vettes, M's, AMG, Aero's, specify Mobil 1 or an equivelent 100% synth oil on changes from the factory with a giant huge sticker in the engine bay.

Not even the Supra came with synth oil as a requirement but for some reason, you feel that your econbox needs it..... Dude, wake up.

The only benefit I can see for using a synthetic on this engine might be the reduced burnoff at higher revs/temps. The gearing on this engine and desire to get the most power from it using a lead foot might cause some drivers to keep the engine at higher rpms and thus stress normal oils. So a synthetic might help there.

I wonder if there's any link between how long the engine lasts, the type of engine it is, and/or the oil used? I hear about a lot more little hondas/toyotas with small engines running for 300k using plain oil than I do about vetts and high performance cars which use synthetics, but then driving styles play a part I'm sure.

I think using normal oil but a good filter (like the mobil 1) might be the best option here, those fram/stp filters aren't very good for the 5 bucks they save you over the better filters. Keep the oil clean, and it doesn't matter if it's a synthetic. Or perhaps it doesn't matter if it's synthetic if it gets dirty, either way.

Scioco,
I dont know how old you are but you sure sound like a little kid... low 20's. And as experience in life will teach you and as is a known fact for generations to come and have come... young kids like you dont take the time to think, yet speak with passion and emotion and not intellect.

You can change engine oil from reg to synth at 50K 75K or 100K. Any american service shop (usually GM car dealers) have a power engine wash system that completely removes away any residual 'sludge' that may have been deposisted or just accumulated over the years of driving. Now I did not have to say that before because something like this is understood when going from reg to synth. But you just dont understand the concept of given or standard knowledge. Nope, ya just jumped the gun and said that it is impossible and believe me as I am young and all knowledgable. Life has a lot of stuff in store for guys like you. When people say they are going to take a shower, it is understood and for the most part common knowledge that it will be with water and they will use soap. Though if someone told you that, you might jump the gun and tell them that they can not take a shower and put on those new clean clothes. 'nuff said.

And you use synth oil on all imports. Then ace, ya might as well use 108 octane gas. The results you will get are mind blowing. I mean come on now, this is the best that is out there and you better use it. Taking care of your vehicle does not equate to people being stupid. Wasting money w/o cause or justification is stupid. Lets see here, body builders take a gizzillion amino acids a day, plus juice up on steroids (if need be), protein shakes, carb gainer shakes, electrolytes, whey mix, etc.... Guess what, I think I will take all that stuff to since it is the best out there for my physique and 'oh yeah one more thing, I will still sit behind my tv every evening and spend the remainder of my time eating the same stuff body builders eat then go to bed. Cause its the same thing. Use synth oil for your econobox car, eats tons of protein, carbs, amino's etc... for a regular Joe like me. I'm gonna get them results... yupp!!!

I already stated to change oil based on driving habits. Go back and read the history. Smoking them dubbies is making you lose your short term. You must fall from a long family lineage to Al Gore. (hopefully this is understood and I dont need to explain it)

I have had plenty of cars in my life. The ones I owned the longest and put the most miles on were all using reg oil and changes at 3000 - 4000 miles based on when I got time to get it done. Those cars had 150,000 in about 3.5 years each. I traded one car in for the other, and the 2nd one I put 130,000 miles in about the same time which I then sold to my cousin who has it now with over 200,000 miles on it. GUESS WHAT BOY GENIOUS. NOT A DROP OF SYNTH OIL. NADDA. And on top of that, my cousin is lucky if he remembers to change his oil yet 2 years later, the Prelude is running just fine. The previous car was an Integra. Riddle me this Genious, how much synth do you think I put in that???

And do I baby my cars. Nope not at all. I enjoy driving plenty. I visit hot and balmy Houston often. I spend a lot of time with the AC cranked on high cruising on the highway in Phoenix.

I now have a BMW 540 which requires synth. A Supra although it does not require synth and the factory does not demand you use it like a Vette or BMW will benefit from it more so if one modded the life out of it. But will the Scion. No. I never had a problem with any of my high miles cars except the clutch wearing out which is fine based on miles. No engine rebuilds, no engine problems... none.

When I was in school, My roomate had a rust bucket POS Honda something or another and it had over 270,000 miles on it. It may have burned a little oil but other than that, she ran like a champ. We drove from Michigan to Florida and back from Spring break in a 2 door tiny back seat with 5 guys. And back then, we never even changed oil 3000 miles. There was no such thing as Oil Express. Imagine that little Honda chuggin along on a highway with 5 over grown guys going to spring break with over 270,000 miles on it. It never broke down. Synth oil in a POS was un-heard of. No internet back then either to do research. That car had no problems running.

Soooo hopefully this will shed some light on your oil conundrum. It is nice to go synth but not really required unless the manufacturer says so. (also another trivial tid bit for ya, 99% of all cars that come from the factory asking for 100% synth are already broken in). Porshce, Vette , M3, M5, AMG's Aero, S60R advertise they are already broken in. Others do not because they still want you to take it easy.

Buying an econobox and wasting money.. whats the point.

-nb

Hopefully this will redirect some people back towards friendly discussion: Once the Scion has went its first 3000 miles on conventional oil, would you need to power wash the system before putting in synthetic from that point on? Or is it fine to just do the switch, because the sludge hasn't built up yet?

scioco,

'Appreciate the banter back and fourth.....

Now for the matter at hand:

No nerves touched here. Just wish I had a lot of stock in the companies you young'ens spend your money on.

I see no point in beating a dead horse..... You can take a horse to water but ya can't make it drink.

My analogies are accurate in their reflection on the subject matter at hand. It is sad and unfortunate that you do not understand them.

You keep bringing up points that I am not disputing. Learn to debate properly. No one is stating what synth oil can and can not do. Why ya keep bringin' up valid points on the benefits of using synth is beyond me. What I am simply stating is that in my past example, our little rust bucket that barely had any type of a body left on it did not get regular oil changes (well as far as I can remember) and it had insane mileage on it. Yet she still ran like a champ. The engine outlasted the body. Soooo using synth oil instead of reg for the duration of the life of that vehicle will yeild me what...
1. I spend more $$$ on oil changes
2. I feel good that my car is using synth
3. I have over 250,000 miles on it
4. She is still a rust bucket where the engine outlasted the body.
Soooo, the car ran without synth oil and no major problems as did my past 2 Honda engines.... and I am to benefit how now? I spend more $$$ to get the same results. Lets talk about how we can make our bodies last longer and what we can do to stop rust... Now that is a good conversation.

Your points on synth are valid but pointless in trying to prove the need to use synth and spend more $$$ on oil in a car that has an engine that will outlast the body or any driver in its lifetime of ownership using reg oil. Ya just dont have any valid points.

Now as for what I do: I am a CE Chemical Engineer for DOW. I work in the proceesing lab for acetylize phosphates. I bought the Scion for my son who is due back from summer vacation any day now (though being in college and independant he probably has no desire to return home right now...)(plus I dont want to hear any lectures on buying a new car for a kid from anyone, this was a godda do for my wife who desperately wants her baby back home and in a college close to home; so she is hoping this will be bait). We'll see.....

Sooooo you understand, I am not against synth. I use it for the purpose it was intended for and do not use it for the purpose it was not intended for or not required.

As for spell checker, we are not allowed computers with internet access (for obvious reasons) in the lab so I go to a kiosk in the cafe' and download info to my palm. From where I then graffiti my reply back not caring for proper grammer as anyone writing a response on a palm will know it is difficult. Plus I dont have a spell checker on it either.

And as for your bragging rights, you wrenched an engine since you 2 years old and pushed a car up hill both ways to and from the garage.... yeah, I have heard it all before. The internet can make a CEO out of anyone. Though for me, if you ever would like to visit me please drop me a line if ever in Toronto. Maybe you and my son can talk about the latest thing to spend hard earned money on and my buddies and I can take notes and maybe invest a bit.

Now finally you got me and the guys in the lab all laughed out on this... synth oil ELIMINATES engine wear. Listen up ace, if you believe that there is an oil out there that eliminates engine wear then please let the world know as you will put every petro company out of business plus every engine repair shop and all the dealers and service areas. Heck, everyone, I believe Sciocioioio hit the mark.. he has a synth oil that ELIMINATES engine wear, not slow it down or cut it in half but 100% gone good bye.

If you have this secret, you can be the golden poster boy for say Shell, Valvo and Mobil and tell the world that use synth and ELIMINATE engine wear for ever. No micrometer or microscope can ever measure your wear since there is none right! And then when people jump on your bandwagon and soon have regular wear showing up, come back to you and ask you for your miracle no wear elimination proof, you will have no place to hide. Just like Bush and Blair there were no WMD ever found and in your case, there was wear.

Hey I have a toll booth you can setup at home and place it anywhere you want and collect toll from anyone you want. It is a total build it yourself kit that promises immediate cash flow.

(boy I sure wish I was the guy who sold you on this synth oil and 100% elimination of wear, what else is he selling that you are buying.... how about those lose 50lbs overnight Hollywood diets? I know I need to loose a few pounds here and there and would be greatly interested in your research oooops I mean propaganda)

'Ohhh what was that about "thanks for playing......????"

(29 years old... jheeez I did not know they came that old and that naive)

Here's muddddddd in your face.

nb

PS: Now I have my co-workers involved in this banter and we are just waiting to see what ya come up with next.

you two should hug! or just pick up the phone and call each other. who ever gets ____ed and hangs up loses. good idea huh?

boy you save money at the pump, but you spend that saved money on your synthetic oil, i don't think its really worth it cause you still get no money in the pocket from all this,

the way i see in breaking in an engine is do not take on the highway, use city streets and country back roads, who doesn't like country back roads... :D

Loved the oil discussion!!!!! I use synthetic after a break in period because its just better. Too much research has been done to show this. I have a Pathfinder with the 3.5L, Honda Civic 1.5, and now my new tC. All of which will use Mobil 1. I drive about 50K a year and on the interstate at 85. I just feel better about the synthetic.

And if it makes me feel better, then its worth it. Besides would you rather drink the beast of Miller Lite. Yeah they are both beers, but Miller Lite is much better!!!!!!

Scioco,

I am totaly with you on this one. i have read and talked to master mechanics that if your going to go synthic oil you want to do it at a very early stage. Number one because synthic oil has alot of detergents in it that keeps the engine running clean.
Synthic oil is also alittle thinner then dino oil. The reason you don't want to change to synthic oil at a later higher milage date is because by using the dino oil for so long the oil has left deposit in the gaskets and seals that acts like a liquid seal. So when you put the new synthic oil in with all the new additives and detergents it washed them out and you might have a leak somewhere. And i am living proof that synthic oil does work and i will be putting synthic oil in all of my future cars. i bought a nissan 240 sx about 2 years ago at 120,000 miles on it . now you might be saying hey you said to change it at a early stage, well i knew the risk but i read so many good thing about synthic oil that i was willing to take a risk. So i put it in ranit for 1000 miles then i changed it again, to clean out all the oil dino oil and deposits. Well lucky for me i only got good thing out of it other then my valve cover gasket started to leak after but that was a eazy fixer. I noticed a big difference in the top end rev, it was much much smoother. i drove the car all the way until 223, 987 miles and took the valave cover off just for fun one day and DAMN! The engine was really cleaner then i gotten it from the beginning. i was so amazed i am hooked on synthic forever.


So yeah and another thing i hate it when older people think they are so much better then us because they have lived longer and have more knowledge about stuff. i think thats a load of crap.


S

Wow, so much false information being thrown around that I don't even know where to begin. I am not going to proclaim anything about how smart I am, or what degrees I have, but I will say that you can't believe everything you read, and doing some REAL research will uncover most of your questions.

Before any of you make any more posts about the qualities of synthetic motor oil vs. conventional, please spend at least a few hours reading what real experts put in their own cars, and the topics they discuss.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

First off, synthetic IS worth the additional investment IMHO.

Here are some of the reasons why I believe so...
1. lower pour points and lower cold viscosities resulting in much lower starting wear, especially in winter when an engine will acquire MOST of its wear and tear.

2. Longer oil drain intervals. Using UOA's (used oil analysis) one can often go 10,000 miles or longer on a TRUE sythetic (more on this later). Some have gone as many as 25,000 miles before any signs of the synth. giving up the ghost were noticed

3. Synthetics have fewer VI's (viscosity index improvers) that break down under high heat and leave deposits. Cleaner engine means better efficiency and less chance of damaging particles.

4. Higher HT/HS (high temperature / high shear) properties. This is a rating that describes the exact oil trait that plain engine bearings require. Good resistance to shearing at high temps. Sythetics can easily be 1.5 times greater with film strengths often 10 to 100 times greater.

These are actually just a few. I invite you to do some looking into that forum I posted above. You will find that there are many reasons to run synthetic. The most important being the chance for longer drains intervals which will actually save you money in the long run.

Myths:
Start synth at 50,000 miles...etc. Synth can be started any time, and I suggest the earlier the better. On all my new cars I change out the factory fill to Mobile 1 synth at 500 miles. Synth comes as a factory fill on many new cars, so obviously it can be used right off the bat.

Synth can't be used in some cars...total crap! While some engines respond to different oils with different wear, one can only tell through details UOA's. Any synthetic oil that carries the proper approval can be used in your engine.

All synths are the same...again not true. The only true group IV / PAO oil that is easily attainable (say Wal-M@rt) would be Mobile 1. The rest (Castrol, Penns, havoline) may have some ture synthetic mixed in their bottle of 100% synthetic. The fact is that they are using group III base stocks that are hydrocracked from regular old dead dino oil. There are other true group IV synths as well, but are harder to come by.

Synth stops wear...not true. Synth may slow wear due to better cold starting, or higher film strength at high stress points, but a UOA will show wear metals just the same.

Ok, I'm done for now...

Your right, regular old dino will work for the regular old driver. I like to think of myself as a driving enthusiast. I work my engine a little harder than most would. If you took your engine to the dyno after its life of conventional oil it may well run just fine, but I think you will see less HP, less torque, worse emissions, poorer cooling, and an overall less healthy engine that has been running on a true synthetic its whole life. I like to get the best bang for as long as I can out of my engines so I will stick with my synth.

If you would like to dispute anything I have stated, feel free, but please do some looking before you go shooting your mouth off. Much of what has been posted as fact on this thread is in fact total BS! I feel bad for the people that read some of it not knowing the difference.

_edit_

Synthetic oil should not be used in a rotary engine (ie rx-7 and rx-8's). This is due to the fact that the rotary engine burns oil in the combustion chamber, and due to sythnetic burning at a higher temp, it doesn't fully combust and causes seals to stick. Google 'synthetic oil rotary engine' and you'll see many articles about this.

Rotary engines weren't coming to mind when I typed that. It was more in reference to Scion engines. But thanks for the correction!

goddamn! Who's reading these novel-long posts?!
:shock: :shock: :wink: :shock:

This is a very controversial topic…


There are various "Break-In Secrets" for new engines on the internet
Especially for motorcycles and small engines (like ours).


From what I have been told by my mechanics and what I have read, the best thing to do is drive normally but not at continuous high speeds for a long time for the first 500 miles. Occasional quick bursts of speed followed by quick deceleration during this period, is beneficial. Long trips (and towing) are not recommended until after 1000 miles.

The only thing almost all the articles agreed on for a new engine was to change the oil after the first 1000 miles to get rid of any metal particles that may damage the engine.

For my xB, I drove it "normally" with the occasional "quick burst" and changed the oil at 1000 miles. Now I've got 3500 miles and it runs fine. I have also noticed that the gas mileage went from 25MPG (when new) to 29MPG (at 3000 miles) and the car seems a lot quicker than when it was new.


SOURCES:
http://www.enginesonly.com/break-in.html
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm.
http://www.stretcher.com/stories/02/02feb25k.cfm

I replaced my oil with cherry-flavored pancake syrup, and that gives me an additional +20 hp.

Oil is for sissies.

Hey everyone, I am a new Scion Xa owner. I used to work in an independent BMW shop and I am about to leave for Connecticut to work for Skip Barber Racing School at Lime Rock racetrack. I was reading all of your comments about synthetic oil and what not and I just want to clarify some things: starting off (0-7500 miles) you do not want to use synthetic oil, just regular stuff will do. If you're really that obsessive over your car after 7500 miles use semi-synthetic, if you use fully syn. it might not work right and you could screw up your engine (unlikely, but their is still a risk), anywhere after 75,000 miles I would say it's safe to use fully synthetic. For the record I am 19, so I'm not one of those "older elitist mechanics" but seriously, a lot of them know what they're talking about.

If any has any questions and they think I can help, feel free to e-mail me.

i realized my e-mail isn't up here, it's:

v3nus1nfurs@hotmail.com


yes, i do like the velvet underground in case anyone got the reference

Just wondering what data or facts you have to back up your claims?

Hey everyone, I am a new Scion Xa owner. I used to work in an independent BMW shop and I am about to leave for Connecticut to work for Skip Barber Racing School at Lime Rock racetrack. I was reading all of your comments about synthetic oil and what not and I just want to clarify some things: starting off (0-7500 miles) you do not want to use synthetic oil, just regular stuff will do. If you're really that obsessive over your car after 7500 miles use semi-synthetic, if you use fully syn. it might not work right and you could screw up your engine (unlikely, but their is still a risk), anywhere after 75,000 miles I would say it's safe to use fully synthetic. For the record I am 19, so I'm not one of those "older elitist mechanics" but seriously, a lot of them know what they're talking about.

well, ok, you're probably going to think i'm full of crap but trust me, i'm not. this info is all stuff that i've learned from over time and asking people i work with. i could find some test results that would prove me right, but i'm sure anyone could find test results saying otherwise. Besides, no one on these forums should worry about their oil for the first 15,000 miles, you get 3 free oil changes from Scion.

By the way, running fully synthetic motor oil does not add horsepower. This I can prove.

hey now..i'm not a master mechanic, chemical engineer, or psychiatrist, but i'll play all three here. I am sure if we all change our oil on a regular basis, and based on driving conditions, our econoboxes will last at least as long as it will take to pay them off. :)

Use whatever oil makes you feel good.
or just split the difference, use a synthetic blend.

Just wondering....

Anyone wonder if the dealer/shop really puts in synthetic when you ask for it? Any way to know? Or is it best to do it yourself?

there's a good chance that the dealership won't have synthetic oil on hand but if they say they'll do it, i'd trust them. dealerships don't try to screw you over as much as some people say they will. although, there are some that you gotta watch out for.

as far as actually checking if they put synthetic in or not.... i don't know of any ways to tell, i'd just take their word.

I totally agree with the break in method of varying your rpms/differnt loads. I've used that technique on all my cars and motorycles with no problems whatsoever.

As far as synthetic, I've been using Amsoil synthetic. There was a really good oil comparison in one of my Sportrider magazines. Amsoil and Mobile 1 were some of the best syth oils on the market today. I chose Amsoil because it had the most anti-wear additives in their formula.

I'm not sure if this has been posted or not but here you guys go.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
This site has helped my friends with bikes, and cars alike.
It works and is still working for my buddies. It will be done to my tC when it comes in.

This should be helpful for all you guys who have not got your car yet.

http://www.newscion.org/forums/showthread.php?t=307

I am not so sure why there is so much hyps about "breaking in " your car. As long as you aren't HARD on it for the first few hundred miles, you should be just fine. As far as long distance driving....they mean LONG DISTANCE. 40 miles is not long!!!

forgiveme i dont know didally about breakdown levels and additives i buy shell vpower gas cause it promotes five times the cleaner additives . so i know im a sucker when someone says a few more horsies and i jump all over it. although i did watch . i believe it was horse power tv . they had a green honda civic 92-95 coupe style . put it to the test with regular oil first and then completely drained the oil out they had to change a couple of hoses i think and something else to assure they had got all the regular oil out then installed synthetic and the dyno proved that the synthetic yeilded more horsies. i cant remember if they used royal purple or mobile 1 .

OK The Royal Purple is my XB at 2,000 miles..woo hoo and those who do not under stand...hey that is your issue

Anyone know why you shouldn't travel long distance at the same speed during break-in? I keep hearing don't but I'm not getting why.

I'm a mechanical Engineer working for a reputable auto manufacturing company from Japan and I would have to agree with the chemical engineer. Most people are wasting their money on the synthetic oil. If you did any real racing (not street racing) you would know that most racing vehicles use straight 30 weight because of the high heat.

But, synthetic is better for cold weather starts and I would recommend that you switch your regular 5w-30 to a synthetic in the winter because of hard/cold starts.

Please let's try to be civil in the chat rooms and always remember we are all learning and we can all learn something no matter of your status in the motor world.

hahaha... breaking in engines should be a religion too

I broke mine in by driving it 1500 miles in four days. I probably wasn't supposed to do that, but it seems to be just fine. I bet people take this stuff too seriously.

"I see no point in beating a dead horse..... You can take a horse to water but ya can't make it drink. "

:rofl:

No such thing as breaking it in any more...

This isnt the 60's where there were still metal shavings left in the motors from manufacturing... Most motors are run out of the car at the factory before being put into the cars...

I dont know for sure about the scion yet, but most cars are like that these days...

first oil change... do it 3000... no reason to do it before, once again, the myth is over, no shavings are going to be left in the motor, if they are, you got other problems to worry about besides breaking your car in!

as far as oil's... you want an oil that is going to lubricate... if you are in a cold climate, you want an oil that is going to quickly lubricate all of the engine components so none of them are not lubricated while the car is warming up... you want the oil to be coating everything the moment the motor starts up and the jets start squirting...

I run Motul 300V in my car but I mostly road race it ( not a scion ) I dont think I would put $20 a quart oil in my girlfriends scion when she gets it... But when she does... i will be putting Motul 8100 in it for sure :)

(looking forward to her tC, got my mod list planned for it already :)

then graffiti my reply back not caring for proper grammer as anyone writing a response on a palm will know it is difficult.

amen to that

i thought this sticky was about break ins? how did yall ended up with oil discussion? anyway i will be getting my new 5spd tC in 2 weeks, and i have been reading up on proper break-in techniques:

1. the one that poeple have mentioned here already, vary your speed, dont redline. thats it just drive normally.

2. the MotoMan theory. where you go floor it and let it go and etc etc. im not too sure if you can post url links up here, but just google him you shold find him.

so, which one have you guys used and what were you guys' dyno or just overall results?

I think people are way too serious about break-in. I mean honestly, what's going to happen if you break it in one way or the other? The engine will die at 10k miles? The performance will go down 30%? This is a 21st century Toyota, I am sure you could drive it any way you want off the lot and it would still last you a generation provided you take care of it and don't abuse it. I have never heard of new cars having problems due to improper break-in.

I think that the reason why the manual suggests easy driving and varying speeds is to ensure there are no defects from the factory. If you take it easy, and something is wrong with the car (a lemon perhaps?) you can spot it safely, rather than seeing something happen when you're redlining at 50 miles on the odo.

Can someone point me to where I can read about which synthetic oil to use in my xB?

im jus wondering, is it ok to change your 1st oil change with a full synthetic oil?
at 2k imma change to a better brand of full synthetic.

My question is this.

When the break in procedure says not to drive at the same speed for a "long time" what does "long" mean. I have a commute where I'm on the highway for twenty minutes, does this mean I should not drive at the same speed for twenty minutes?

Sunshine,

THANK YOU for bringing some sense into this thread. Mobil 1 is fantastic stuff. I'll never use anything else.

Somebody mentioned that the tC is delivered with synthetic oil. Are the xA and xB delivered with Synth?

Love all of the information. Don't like the aggression.

I'll stick to conventional oil and Toyota's filter. I travel long distances and wouldn't want to get stuck where I can't get synthetic, forced to use conventional, then stuck thereon using a blend. Doesn't seem worth the effort.

Sunshine,

THANK YOU for bringing some sense into this thread. Mobil 1 is fantastic stuff. I'll never use anything else.

Following my mechanics advice I switched from regular oil to Mobil 1 full synthetic at 9,000 miles. I noticed that the xB starts easier and the gas mileage is a little better.

Take it easy old man, you might blow a gasket. You sound like a kid with all that ranting and raving about your experience. Listen to what others have to say and use constructive criticism if you believe different. Me and my buddies are laughing at you and your lab bros, sounds pretty stupid doesn't it.

Back on topic, I switched to synthetic, Mobil 1, in my Toyota Tacoma, which I beat down offroad and long trips to Mex, and I like the data provided concerning synthetics. Still haven't got my Xa yet, but I am sure I'll switch to synthetic as well after a while. Not much of a price difference, Costco sells Mobile 1 at a very affordable price, and it's not racing oil.

nb,
Take it easy old man, you might blow a gasket. You sound like a kid with all that ranting and raving about your experience. Listen to what others have to say and use constructive criticism if you believe different. Me and my buddies are laughing at you and your lab bros, sounds pretty stupid and immature doesn't it.

Back on topic, I switched to synthetic, Mobil 1, in my Toyota Tacoma, which I beat down offroad and long trips to Mex, and I like the data provided concerning synthetics. Still haven't got my Xa yet, but I am sure I'll switch to synthetic as well after a while for the same reasons. Not much of a price difference as well, Costco sells Mobile 1 at a very affordable price.

B1uEsC1uEs.

I changed to Mobil1 @500 miles. My box is still running fine @2500 miles! :pray: BTW, I am a believer in the motoman/mototuneusa.com break in procedure.

For those of you that want oil spec info.....Here you go.

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

http://www.chris-longhurst.com/carbibles/engineoil_bible.html

Your welcome :)

i've been going pretty easy on my car. dont think i've been over 4k rpms yet. i've put about 500 miles on it, and have had it about 2 weeks.

Tobacco Juice and ground Kudzu Drippins, good for 1 zillion miles on concrete blocks!

2006 xB picked up the Monday after Thanksgiving last year 2100 miles - still breaking it in - yeah it gets better and better the more you drive. Gently revs prevent cooking the top rings before they seat fully and they take a while to polish up - there are a lot of other things in the drive train that break in like chains and their roller surfaces and the gears in the tranny. Pushing it too soon can cause spot heating and damage the surface and break down the oil. Take off in first and give it a little gas and wait until the engine will not rev any more - the more the engine breaks in the higher it will rev. The oil issue as far as I can see only helps if you go for long oil change intervals - I have been going 5-8k with oil on the last two new cars I have owned and they rusted before the engine caused any problems. Regular oil will be dead in about 6-7k, syntec blend castrol keeps going. Never tried Mobil1 but hear it increases mpg . . . I am getting about 40-43 mpg on my xB right now and it is winter here in RI so I think I am doing ok. Too many people are throwing away perfectly good oil by changing it too soon. If it is not slippery and really dirty and smells of gas or burnt oil you NEED to change it. If you are getting white sludge you have water problems from not getting the engine hot enough - usually forms under the filler cap. Highway breakin - just take your foot off the gas once in a mile or so to let the oil up into the top rings and change the loading on the gears and other engine components. Keep in mind that the VVT-I engine has internal hydralic control of the valve timing and that needs a little motion from time to time with throttle and RPM variations. Read an article on the heat cycling of the piston alloy that recommends a lot of starting and stopping without heavy throttle use so that the pistons become stronger too.

^^40-43mpg!??!!

Yeah I was worried for a while about the mpg coming from a 94 Geo Metro that got 54mpg and the gas price increase really gets me at the pump but yeah got a few tanks of low 30's then realized a 1.2 mile trip with 5 stop signs in cold weather will do that. Then got to take a few low speed non-stop drives and accelerate a little easier at the stops and coast up to them longer . . . well 433.5 miles 10.810 gallons of HESS gas do the math. Oh and the odometer is off by about 9-10% lower that actual distance traveled.

Great driving technique!

I was happy getting consistent 30.5~31.5 with a best of 32.7! SoCal traffic is brutal for mpg.

If you want to keep a closer eye on your gas mileage I really recommend the ScanGauge - you can watch the MPG change as you drive and if you coast you can see 120-300mpg depending upon your speed - it really lets you know when you are using and wasting gas. The wheel bearings in the xB are amazing allowing it to roll for almost a mile if you put it in neutral on a slight downhill. The gas pedal is extreemly sensitive and the ScanGauge can show you that the slightest motion can affect mileage. It also lets to see the trip MPG dropping as you sit in traffic with the motor running.

:clap:

I got back into my friend heated garage last friday night and slid under the front end and got stuck - man the xB is low. jacked it up and added 8 oz of some 20 year old vintage Slick50 Gear oil additive and saw about 4-5 mpg increase the first day driving. I got 49.3mpg on a 34.5 mile trip. Can't wait to add some to the engine after the first oil change.

Slick50, eh? haven't heard that name for a long time, used it alot in past vehicles...good stuff....just don't forget to drive a while after you add it to get the full effect.(I think about 20 min.)

Not sure about the gear lube driving after adding it but the engine treatment needs to be added and driven right away. As it turned out I finished adding the gear lube at 1:30am in the morning so it was way past bed time and I had to wait for a while - it seems to be doing its job - may say something about the stock gear oil in the Scions too!

When i bought my echo new they told me to take it easy for the first wile for brake in so when i left the dealer lot i did a big red line clutch drop peelout. I kept doing so up to today and my compression is good and the engine runs smooth and strong. So do good maintnence and drive it like you stold it . O and i used synthetic oil from first oil change but from 35000 miles to present [50000] i use M1 15w50.

toyota has dummy proofed all of their engines for guy's like me . That is why they have a rev limiter and i suspect the real brake in period is completed before they ever let us potental nuts get control of the throttle.So i chalinge all of you nuts to try to blow up your engine before the warrenty is up in stock form or slightly modded. That was my inital plan to get a new engine before warrenty was up but it just won't work . Belive me i tried also the tranny and clutch is suprisingly strong aswell. I have 50000 with no problem at all and do clutch dropping redlin burn outs almost every day . Hard on tires thow. I just can't help my self.

I have never owened a car or truck that could take the abuse my echo as. I have owned 80 cutless / 96 tacoma/90supra/ 87toyota4x4/ 90tercel/ 76volvo242dl/ 85 626/93pathfinder. I still own the 626 and pethfinder but nothing can take a beating like the echo .

... When the break in procedure says not to drive at the same speed for a "long time" what does "long" mean. I have a commute where I'm on the highway for twenty minutes, does this mean I should not drive at the same speed for twenty minutes?

In varying the speed, the speeds per se are not what provide the benefit, rather the process of changing the speeds. In other words, you should frequently accelerate and decelerate. For the first 500 miles, for instance, accelerate to 60, hold it for a minute, then back off to 50. For the next 500 miles, use 70. When accelerating in gears, stay below 3000 rpm and 3/4 throttle the first 500 miles, and 3500 rpm the next 500. But drive hard within those parameters. After 1000 miles, drive as you wish. The break-in period is then over, although the engine will continue to loosen up and make more power and mpg.

Such a break-in "rocks" the internals for more complete and uniform polishing and mating. On acceleration, the pistons and rings and valve train are under one kind of force, while on deceleration they are under a different force. In a sense, the break-in process is a continuation of the manufacturing process.

If you break in an engine this way, it will be optimized - be as good as it can be. But even if you do a poor break-in or no break-in, the xB engine will not be harmed and you will not know the difference.

Any difference might be discernable if you could drive a perfectly broken-in car for comparison, or after 100,000 miles when the poorly broken-in car might show more oil consumption and valve train noise, and less power.

The Toyota engine is so perfectly made that a careful break-in is not critical. With the vintage air-cooled BMW motorcycles that I restore, the break-in is critical. Steady running too fast can make the pistons seize in the cylinders, and wil not wear in (seat) the rings. The first oil change at 200-400 miles is at best dark with wear products. At worst the oil will come out with a metallic sheen or grit.

I changed the oil on my xB at 400 miles. It was uneccessary. The oil was barely turning amber. The modern engine is made such that essentially no additional wear is mandatory to make it broken-in. We need not finish the manufacturing process by special driving. Merely driving normally is sufficient.

that guy needs a girlfriend :roll: :eyebrow:

that guy needs a girlfriend

Got one, 30th anniversary next month.

that guy needs a girlfriend

Got one, 30th anniversary next month.
:bow: 0\/\/n3d... :bow:

to the both of you, I am talking about nb, the guy with the bad attitude.. saavy?
gees, read the whole thread before you jump in front of the firing squad!

that guy needs a girlfriend :roll: :eyebrow:

to the both of you, I am talking about nb, the guy with the bad attitude.. saavy? gees, read the whole thread before you jump in front of the firing squad!

NB? His posts were back in July of 2004. I did read the whole thread, but after almost 2 years, it was not at all clear that you were refering to him.

I have used both the petroleum oils and synthetics in several cars. I ran a Maxima for 210,000 miles on petroleum oil. The engine, an inline six never used a drop of oil or leaked the entire time iI owned it. Like one person said the rest of the car will most likely fail before you reach 300,000 miles.

Presently I use sythethics because of the extra protection and the oil changes for the brand I am using can go for 7,500 miles or six months. The oil change is twice the price of a standard oil change, but I don't have to change the oil as many times. Also, I am not disposing an additonal eight to nine quarts of oil per car a year.

To me that is good enough. My Scion xB is great. I really enjoy everyones view point and all the modifications that can be done to the Scion. I just changed the oil at 1012 miles and I am using Amsoil XL 7500, 5-30. I believe Mobil 1 has an extended life oil also.

The truth is Manufacturers recommend Oil Change intervals to protect themselves from warranty claims....Scion/Toyota recommend you change the Oil every 5,000 miles with non-synth Oil along with an OEM Filter. That's all that's required.

When they develop a new Engine they run them to failure, they collect data and determine how long an engine will run without an Oil change before damage occurs and half it, they then take into account that some drivers will be very hard on their Cars, so they half the intervals again....they are then pretty sure that if Joe Blow drives the heck out of his Car his engine will last untill way past the warranty period, then they're off the Hook.

So, simply change your Oil at 5K miles, or 6 months, whichever comes first, have it recorded in the service Book they gave you in case you have a warranty claim and you'll be golden....

You won't be keeping your Scion for more than 100,000 miles because a new updated Model will come out long before then and you'll just have to have one...right?

:flame:
...adding fuel to fire...
I am a mechanic...(but or and) when I bought my xB i took it back for my first comp. oil change at 1500mi. (just like I do with my customers engine builds).
Of course the oil was clean and my dealer thought I was wasting time/money. I got my second comp. oil change at 3K mi and they still thought I was off base. Who cares? It was FREE!
The third change wasat 6K, and the first one I did myself. The a** at the dealership put the filter on so tight I thought I was never going to get it off!
When I did the 6K, 11K, and 16K services I used Prolong engine treatment, a Toyota filter and Carquest brand oil (Havoline, I believe).
So I am not 'synth', but I change every 5K and spend the extra $7 on Prolong. I do believe the Toyota filter is worth it. The difference in cost (from aftermarket) when I checked was pennies.
Toyota's oil? I dunno. I have never had a customer request it, and I have never seen an engine die for lack of it. The price difference compares to using an additive like Prolong, or synth oil. They just don't make the same boasts.
For the record, I kept it under 85 (with much effort) for the 1st 5K, and varying speeds without maintaining constant RPM or racing like a nut is the correct way to brake it in. (Read TFOM)
OBTW I like Royal Purple in a race engine, but their own rep told me that it should not be used in street cars that experience long (i.e. 5K) oil change intervals due to the fact that race oils like theirs do not contain the additives that help to suspend combustion byproducts.
Oh, and about that third free oil change... my wife can use it when she's at the coast or whatever... I still have 26 mos. to use it!
Just in case I havent infuriated everybody yet... unless your engine came with synth in it, you shouldn't put it in (or any other additive) until you know the rings have seated. I tracked this on my xB from day 1 and saw the mpg increase on the tank which I filled up at 2840.6 mi. (Read the label, your results may vary.)
I do hope this helps. Not to end the debate, but to bring practical reasonable and recent experience to the topic.

I will have to check, but I believe my 06 came with synth in it. I haven't even taken a peek yet, but are oil changes relatively easy on the xB?

I will have to check, but I believe my 06 came with synth in it. I haven't even taken a peek yet, but are oil changes relatively easy on the xB?
What makes you think Toyota put some after market synth in the Scion on the assembly line in Japan, when all they make is Toyota oil?
Oi changes are easier than a transmission oil change, because it takes one less layer of 2x lumber to raise the car and you don't have to remove the plastic shrouds:
http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/vintagefortytwo/xB%20Trans%20Oil%20Change/

I plan on switching to Mobil 1 at my first oil change @3000 miles. I will then change that oil once a year or approx. every 10000 miles. I work for Porsche and that very same oil is put in the $200000 GT2 is also good for 15000 miles(or once a year) according to Porsche. So i don't think i'll be hurting an exceptionally built econocar engine with my plan.

I was told by an oil and engine expert that the Scions come with some really good synthic from the factory - better than what the dealers put in it when they change it for you - that's what he said. WHen I changed my at about 3700 it was pretty dirty but not really bad.

Engine breaking in has been great wiyh my short ram intake and strup axle back. I have about 2000 miles on it now i put 600 on it today running between 80 and 90 on the interstate. It wouldn't do but 103mph stock but i got 108mph out of it today after upgrades.

I have not read this yet in the thread, but how about making your own synthetic blend(same weight oil) = say 1/2 Mobile 1, and 1/2 Mobile clean 5000 ?? Would that be similar to going with Castrol sythetic blend ?

:flame:
Just in case I havent infuriated everybody yet... unless your engine came with synth in it, you shouldn't put it in (or any other additive) until you know the rings have seated. I tracked this on my xB from day 1 and saw the mpg increase on the tank which I filled up at 2840.6 mi. (Read the label, your results may vary.)
I do hope this helps. Not to end the debate, but to bring practical reasonable and recent experience to the topic.


I also heard of needing/having the piston rings seated(proper initial wear) , before even considering/doing - going to full synthetic oil. On the flip side, some say that our engines come from factory with the rings already seated ??!!! :eyebrow:

Can anyone definitively conclude/give factual info. pertaining to the piston ring situation ??

Your rings are seated but the bores are not fully polished so gentle throttle for the first several thousand miles is good for improved break in. I know you guys take what I say with a grain of salt but I ran to Babylon NY on Long Island last Tuesday and back in rush hour traffic with the A/C on most of the time pretty much burned a tank of gas about 10 gallons in 421 miles in a day so calculate my MPG average . . . on Sylnube with 17,000 miles on the odometer and my first change was at 3700 miles and none since Synlube was put in the engine.

What is synlube ?

I've been calculating my mpg's since doing the snorkle removal + TRD drop in, its been about 4 full tanks now, and I've been getting an average of about 39 mpg's - thats probably 75% freeway driving, very-rarely using the AC- basicly not at all , I have 16" wheels, but the combined weight of the stock wheel = my 16" wheels/tires is identical. I've got 4400 miles on my odometer , proper break in period , first 4K milles, I didn't tack it above 3500 rpms (usually @ 3K ..... I think 1-2 times @ 4K rpms accidentaly). I dropped the stock oil @ 2500 miles, and put in 5w-30 Mobile Clean 5000 oil. I also have magnets on my oil filter now.

..... and I drive the more aero xA :eyebrow:

It continues to break in at 4000 and beyond - you can rev it more but not with a lot of gas pedal - as the engine breaks in it will rev easier and reving it up gets the pistons and rings to travel a little bit further up the cylinder and really throws the oil in the crankcase around to cool and lube it better. There is more than just the rings breaking in - the timing chain and valves also move a lot as well as lifters and gearing in the tranny. You might consider changing just your tranny oil and see how much your mileage changes. Also add some more pressure to your tires like try 35-38psi for starters and watch your mileage go up.

Synlube is a long term lubricant typically 150,000 miles between changes with a couple of filter changes during that time. It has less friction than conventional oils at most RPMs and doesn't break down to form sludge like conventional oils with extended use.

I have a manual, so are you refering to some Mobile 1 syn. gear oil in my tranny ?

Is Synlube a engine lube ? When you change your oil, doesn't it just come out - or does it bond to the metal parts ? Is it like dura-lube ?

Yeah some Mobile 1 Gear lube would be great - I added some 20 year old Slick50 gear lube and saw improvements right away in my mileage.

Synlube is a oil replacement lubricant - you drain the engine and tranny and in my case the power steering fluid and put their stuff in. They have over 150 different prpoducts made for specific applications so you have to get the correct ones for the job and vehicle. Once you put the lube in the engine all you do is check it once a month and change the filter at 36,000 and 75,000 miles and keep it topped off with "Add Oil". You can change it and recycle it back to the company but it should last about 150,000 miles without changing it. Saves a lot of time and produces no waste products since they recycle it. It keeps on lubricating better than conventional and synthetic oils and ends up costing about half or less then them in the long run espically if you tend to change dino oils more frequently than usual. The hardest part of using it was getting used to the idea that I DON'T have to change it every 3-6 months to a year like I have been in all my prior vehicles. Engine runs better on it and is quieter and more efficient too and my gas mileage shows it works great also even at fast highway speeds I get better gas mileage than almost all other xBs out there.

On the slick-50 you used, does it last 20 years , or is it that you purchased it in 1987 - and somehow more superior to the current slick-50 out in the market ??

Is there a web-site to Synlube , and where do you purchase it ?

Thanks in advance.

Yeah it was a really old can of Slick 50 gear lube that had been open, had used some of it in my BMW motorcycle and it was still good once I mixed the teflon back into the oil - it had settled out. Still good after all those years and it was the old stuff. I put about 8 onces into the tranny and wow it made a difference about 4 mpg more. Replaced it with Synlube about a month later and got about the same results.

www.synlube.com and you buy it direct from the manufacturer, and you have to talk to Miro before they will sell you anything to make sure you get the right products and install them properly.

Thanks for the tip!

Are you also using the Synlube oil-filters as well ??
The Synlube filters cost looks to be very-similar cost as a oem Toyota filter(@$4.81 each through Toyota Sparks). Synlube filter = 36K miles @ $25-30 each vs. OEM Toyota filter can go 5K miles @ $4.81 each.

Yeah the oil filter is 5 micron high volume full flow filter and not the little can that comes from Toyota but a full sized filter. The first one is changed after 36000 because of the small amount of "Dino" oil that was in the engine from the first change which will have turned to sludge and been filtered out by the first filter and needs to be removed. The second filter goes to 75,000 miles - priced at $24 and you reuse the Neo Magnets of course.

right on.

Someone on these forums was alluding to the fact/possibility(not sure which) that using a different filter then the OEM toyota filter, compromises the VVT-i system. In that the oil pressure is changed, and VVT-i works off of the oil-pressure. Have you heard anything about that ??

My VVTi seems to work ok and I think there is upwards of 80psi for oil pressure so . . . it should be ok and like I said it is a full flow filter even though it filters to 5 microns. I would think that the VVTi timing adjustment would be monitoring the change in timing and simply apply more oil flow via the computer controlled oil valve if the timing was not changing enough. That is one of the reasons that they recommend you vary the throttle during breakin and not run with cruise control for extended periods of time - varying the throttle works the VVTi timing.

Jan,

I went on that synlube website... and for the life of me I could not find out what Synlube was comparing there product to/against ???!!!! Was/is it Mobile 1 synthetic ? I saw some writings talking about M1 .... but not so sure what they are comparing it against ??

In going to the Amsoil website, Amsoil compares there product against 10 different oils back in 2005. This is real, relivent data , but I could not find anything like this on synlubes website :

http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests/g1971/index.aspx

That's because Synlube doesn't work the same way conventional oils work so the test they do on conventional oils will not give the same meaningful test results when performed on Synlube. Plus M1 has changed they oils in the past few years. Thing to note is that is that Synlube exceeds the SAE oil standards - seems the comparison page says it all with their graph showing the oil specs for GF4-3-2 and Synlube out performing them all as well as links to the various oil test pages.
http://www.synlube.com/oil.htm

Wow, so much contraversy, just like everything else here.

I went with this method, and my box runs very well. Acelleration is fantastic and i still get good MPG numbers.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

I can tell you i tried an easy break in on my old Plymouth Neon, and the engine was noisey and oil was mysteriously dissapearing.

I will use this method again on my next new car purchase. Although it shouldnt be any time soon as my xB is going along very nicely.

What do you tend to average MPG wise ?

Interesting read, especially after reading this:
"The Problem With "Easy Break In" ...
The honed crosshatch pattern in the cylinder bore acts like a file to allow the rings to wear. The rings quickly wear down the "peaks" of this roughness, regardless of how hard the engine is run.

There's a very small window of opportunity to get the rings to seal really well ... the first 20 miles !! "


Well, when I bought my xA new off the Toy. lot, it had 22 miles on it :pray: :pray: , so hopefully the 1-2 other people who test drove the ride before I got to it put the pedal to the metal :eyebrow: , 2nd-4th ! I do tend to warm up my ride(start up, let idle for 30sec/minute .... cold light still on, and I'll drive but keep it under 2K driving easy, then once its warm - I tend to tack @ 3-3500 rpms).

FYI there is a big difference between how motorcycles and our Scions are build - my brother works in a bike shop and is fixing motorcycle engines all the time - they are not designed to last more than what a typical rider drives them in about a year before they start to fail with under sized cam chains and tensioners that wear out in a few thousand miles and believe me these guys are not breaking them in easy. There is not a lot of "metal" particles in the Scion engines they are in fact very clean inside and I have been told that they come with synthetic from the factory. If the rings are not seated at first then isn't a lot of throttle going to leak right past them and overheat them ??? Doesn't polishing the bores take a lot of strokes? What about the timing chain and other load surfaces like the transmission??

yeah, I'm not so sure about that *Synthetic from factory theory* that I've heard floating around the forums- still no absolute evidence of this. I'll see what the Toy. dealers says when I ask them that in about 1 week. I do know that when you go for your first 3 oil changes - they use Quaker State 5w-30 oil , non-synthetic.


BTW, I checked w/ the dealer, and they say our engines are NON-Interference engines(which I suspected from the get-go). Honda finally went w/non-interference in the last 5 years.... finally.

Miro says they use a very good synthetic for the factory break in oil which is what I suspect by the smell and feel of the gallon I drained out when I changed it - a good test would be a cold flow test of it. Dealers are not going to spend a lot of money on oil they give away for free and Miro said not to even bother with the free dealer oil changes as it would contaminate the engine before switching to synlube. I got the impression that he has been to the Toyota factory where they build the motors and he has worked on them and knows a great deal about motors as one would expect from his business.

As far as ring sealing, they seat pretty quick as they say in the article but the bore polishing takes a lot longer and there are other surfaces that get "heat" cycled like the valves that people tend to forget about along with the valve stem guide bores cam and lifter surfaces and the rollers in the cam chain. More importantly are the gears in the tranny and they can generate a lot of heat and get damaged pretty quick before they break in. I have seen rebuilt trannys get very hot from a blast down the highway and seen the effects of teflon treatment of gears and how much colder the rear end work in my BMW motorcycle.

This topic will never be resolved as everyone knows a mechanic and just like everything else every mechanic is right, while all others are wrong. If you read the article again you will see that the same applies regardless of what engine you have. I did this method and i can tell you that i have left other xBs behind at either a dead stop - start or if we are rolling and floor it. I have even been approached by other xB owners and asked what i have done to my box over theirs. Usually my setup is similar to theirs .. intake, header and exhaust.

Im not going to get into a technical ____ing match .. i can just tell you how my car responds when i need it to get up and go.

Oh, btw i tend to get about 28-29 MPG city driving. If im cruising the highways for a while i get around 31 MPG.

Not too bad but I get about 40 - 43 mpg average per tank mixed city highway with a lot of short trips and was doing 97mph at half throttle and still accelerating. I typically get 42-43 on long highway trips with the AC being used. Everything in my xB is stock. I also think that the engines are run before then get put into the car at the factory so the rings are probably already seated before we even get the car. The true indication of when the engine is really broken in is when the engine takes longer to warm up from the reduction of friction making heat.

What Jan is not telling everyone, is that he is only 80lbs, rolls with 170/65- 13" wheels, and only goes downhill w/his xB(never uphill) :clap: :lalala: :P :P

Kidding :rofl:

Actually I got gas today and on the trip from my apartment to my house, gas station and back I got 48mpg according to the Scangauge. Caught most of the lights green today which was very unusual. 427 miles 10.393 gallons about 41mpg with a lot more than usual short trips around town of a couple of miles each.

All new honda goldwings get run up to redline in each gear as soon as they are finished being built.

I'm at mile 696 in my 09 tc. Will the gas mileage go up after around 1000 miles? Because, its not too good right now.

expect about 26 mpg average out of a tC (thats about 70% hwy, 30% city driving). Do a search on gas milage on the tC forums... to confirm this. Its a larger 4cyl. engine , so you cannot really expect 30+ mpg average.

Hopefully this will redirect some people back towards friendly discussion: Once the Scion has went its first 3000 miles on conventional oil, would you need to power wash the system before putting in synthetic from that point on? Or is it fine to just do the switch, because the sludge hasn't built up yet?

No. Synthetic oils usually have a detergent effect in use and will handle the switch on clean engines just fine. As for the poo poo'ers on synth, I took my first two [of three] freebee oil changes from Scion and switched to Amsoil at 6200 miles. As most cars will be fine doing conventional oil every 3K but I was putting about 800-900 road miles a week on my car commuting and looked at the cost of changing my oil every month (if I could find the time) versus going long on synth. I go 20K between changes and filter every 10K. Financially, it works out to about $45 for 20K in oil changes, so big whoop! Now at 208K miles on my 2004 xB, the car sounds just like new are still runs with the best!

I have seen old bBs(xBs) with over 180K in Kenya, and figure if they are running with less than optimal maintenance after all this time, the TLC I put in mine should bring me in the 500K club easily!!!