I have had my xB for almost a month now and most of the time on the highway i feel like there should be 1 more gear, just to get the rpms down. Scion should def make a six speed option at the dealer and an aftermarket part as well.... I'm for it!!

Dude your reading my mind. I have been looking into a swap of the engine and trans. to the Matrix XRS setup. Haven't seen any real hangups yet, oher than they have a front motor mount and we don't. It looks like everything should bolt up the same, including the trans. to the Scions motor. I would greatly apprec. any Toyota Tech. input on this swap. I assume I'd need the wiring harness and computer as well.


Getty17331

Same deal with tC - cruising at 75mph you have about 3300 rpm - a little too high. Aggressive gearing is awesome, but in this case you need 6th gear...

Yea the tc is def faster thean the xB cuz if im doing like 75-80 im runnin at like 4 grand!! Thats def high for long trips where thats the speed of traffic, it would also give you more top end!!

i wanna run at 120 mph at 2 grand rpm now that would be great!!! plus what a great gas saver too lol

i wanna run at 120 mph at 2 grand rpm now that would be great!!! plus what a great gas saver too lol

That's crazy. I think that for a 4 banger to be going 120 at 2000 rpm it would need at least an 8 speed

i wanna run at 120 mph at 2 grand rpm now that would be great!!! plus what a great gas saver too lol

That's crazy. I think that for a 4 banger to be going 120 at 2000 rpm it would need at least an 8 speed

that defies physics...it has to have high hp at the point of the rpm range.....

hmmm lemme think about this for a min

oh come on it was a peanut gallery joke now lol well i can dream now

yeah same here i think that would help

Many semi trucks have a 13 speed. If you put one of those in there you could go at least 150 MPH :lol:

Rather than a 6-speed, I'd rather that Toyota just change the final drive ratio to lower the RPM in all gears. As it is, first gear barely gets the car rolling. The driver has to shift to second before he can even complete a right turn!

The engine has a broad torque curve as it is, so there is no reason to go to six gears, other than bragging rights. I understand that Toyota wanted to keep the xB "peppy", by using a high (numerically) axle ratio, but they took it too far!

George

I agree it needs another gear. Or some type of racing trans with different gear ratios.

I was thinking about the very same thing on my recent trip. The xB gets its best mpg at 55-65mph. Great for those states like AR (where I just was) that have 55 limits or curves that limit the speed. I logged 35-38mpg. But at 70-80mph, the mpg goes down to 30-33mpg. Maybe a 3.90 or 4.10 final gear/third member and compensating for the difference in the first3 gears would help. I think adding another "overdrive" gear to the trans (since 4th is technically overdriven) would tax the motor too much if not driven carefully. but maybe adding a lower 1st and a 3.90-4.10 differential would help. Any thoughts?

Many semi trucks have a 13 speed. If you put one of those in there you could go at least 150 MPH :lol:


hummmmmmmmmm

i wanna run at 120 mph at 2 grand rpm now that would be great!!! plus what a great gas saver too lol

I hope your joking. :wink:

I agree it needs another gear. Or some type of racing trans with different gear ratios.

Racing tranny? typically the gears are closer together to keep the engine in the right RPM range. As for making the final gear ratio higher, the xB isn't the most aerodynamic car out there, I know I run out of power (wind resistance equal to power output) BEFORE I reach redline in 5th... higher gearing would just make the car slower to accelerate, and the max speed would stay the same. As fot the tC, I think a 6 speed would be VERY nice... 4 close ratio and 2 OD, would be REALLY nice with the S/C.

...I think adding another "overdrive" gear to the trans (since 4th is technically overdriven) would tax the motor too much if not driven carefully. but maybe adding a lower 1st and a 3.90-4.10 differential would help. Any thoughts?

The first gear is already very low, requiring a shift when the car is barely rolling.

The xB final drive is 4.31:1 The Echo final drive is 3.53:1 with the same engine and transmission, but 20% less weight It seems to me that a 3.90 ratio would be very reasonable for the xB.

Looking at it a different way, the xB weighs 20% more than the Echo, but has a final drive ratio 23% shorter. Toyota clearly overcompensated for the weight difference, probably anticipating greater passenger loads.

George

Here is the thing:


With all of these "Dear Scion" type requests, you've got to consider the facts.

First of all, there is no 6 speed manual that I know of, already made for the xB.

The whole idea behind this car was to keep the price insanely LOW by using as much as possible from the existing parts bin. You don't have to know much about cars to know that you can't just take a 6 speed from car "A'" and bolt it onto a different engine in car "B" in most cases.

So developing a 6 speed for this chassis isn't cost-effective or at all practical.

This is an economy car. No economy car in the 14-16k range has a 6 speed. Few cars under $30k have them even. It's not necessary or appropriate in this case. They could not charge enough more for it to cover their costs.

The high RPMS at highway speed are for a reason. THis is a teeny engine. In order for these cars to be able to pass others on the highway with any sort of authority, they have to be making sufficient torque at highway speeds.

Sure, you could drop the gearing down 500-750 rpm and make it more serene and relaxed at 75 mph, but the minute you need to accelerate or pass, you step on the gas and the car would fall flat on it's face. It would require a downshift. So either you've got a taller 5th gear that requires you to downshift to 4th or you have a 6th gear you only use for long hauls to save gas.

Either way you look at it --- it makes NO sense from Toyota's business standpoint.

It won't make the car faster and it won't increase the top speed with this motor.

It wouldn't offer a competitive advantage really, except for the handful of people who will say "ooooh 6 speed" not realizing it's not offering any practical advantage in this car.

Give me side airbags instead so that the crappy side crash scores on this thing will match the excellent scores from all the other angles, theres an idea.

Side airbags will sell more cars than a 6 speed will and cost much less to add since the xA already offers them. Side airbags save lives. Side airbags will inevitably be required by the federal government, 6 speeds won't.

Would I like a 6 speed? Sure, I would, but there are about 10,000 other things that I would find more useful and practical that Toyota could do without spending a bunch of money reengineering things.

How about two interior lights, or even one, that is bright enough to actually be useful?

I'd pay for that option.

Agreed. You folks that are requesting a taller final drive are the same people who think the car is too slow (Who doesn't.) Higher Gearing=Slower car. Taking off on a large hill with a too tall first gear and a gutless engine is not fun. Even slightly taller gears will make the car that much slower - are you really willing to give up that power (Mechanical advantage anyway) for marginally lower rpms in top gear? This is business as usual for toyota - an '88 MR2 that is still in the family ran 3K at about 65. Its got 180K on the original engine so I'm going to say that the extra revs didn't effect its longevity much. If the engine Noise bothers you then perhaps a six speed is something to look into (If the lower cabin noise level offsets the cost and trouble for you) but don't think it'll make the car last longer or go faster.

first off, just wanna say that this car wasn't designed for the u.s. market. they just brought over an existing car. throw the parts bin idea out the window...although right track. still would have been less cost effective to throw in a 6spd instead of just bringing over an existing model. oh, and btw, i've heard (just rumor) that because they used the manual from the celica gt, that the gt-s tranny bolts up. not sure if that's true though....

first off, just wanna say that this car wasn't designed for the u.s. market. they just brought over an existing car. throw the parts bin idea out the window...although right track. still would have been less cost effective to throw in a 6spd instead of just bringing over an existing model. oh, and btw, i've heard (just rumor) that because they used the manual from the celica gt, that the gt-s tranny bolts up. not sure if that's true though....

I'm sure it does bolt up....to the shift mechanism.

The problem is, does it fit in the alloted space and will it connect to the rest of the drivetrain/engine. That part I doubt.

How about a over under type 6th gear? Just make it electrical operated. You have like a push button on the shift so when you want to lower the rpm in any gear you just nail that butten & bam 700rpms lower. When you need the extra go power just nail the button to turn it off & now your 700rpms higher in the same gear, so no need to down shift. I know they have these things for autos but not sure if you could make it work on a manual, I dont see why though just might be a little costly.

How about a over under type 6th gear? Just make it electrical operated. You have like a push button on the shift so when you want to lower the rpm in any gear you just nail that butten & bam 700rpms lower. When you need the extra go power just nail the button to turn it off & now your 700rpms higher in the same gear, so no need to down shift. I know they have these things for autos but not sure if you could make it work on a manual, I dont see why though just might be a little costly.

I had this on my 4 speed Triumph spitfire... it's called electronic overdrive. It worked in both 3rd and 4th, so essentially it was a 6-speed. I had the high out put motor (euro spec pistons, cams, and head) and was making about 63hp to the ground. not really enough HP to need the extra gears... I SO wanted a real 5 speed. I think the only problem that I see with a electronic overdrive is that it would be hard to package in the xA/B. In the spitfire it was just behind the output of the tranny... I don't know where they'd put it in a FWD. I think the tranny is geared just fine. when I do a motor swap (2zz-ge), I'll swap the 6-speed with it too.

Not going to happen, never going to happen, quit your _____ing and start that engine swap.

I got it. Let's do a group buy on a sixth gear! :wink:

Not sure if this has been posted. I was over at www.echodrivers.com today to get ppl to vote for that xB on discounttiredirect thing. While I was over there I saw some one point out that instead of putting a s/c onto there engine they should get a xB tranny because of the numericaly higher final drive. So maybe you could find one of these echo drivers & swap them trans.

Not going to happen, never going to happen, quit your _____ing and start that engine swap.

LOL

WORD!

8)

Not going to happen, never going to happen, quit your _____ing and start that engine swap.
Who are you talking to?