Here's the scoop: I've got a Hotchkiss front sway bar and the rear stabilizer bar. I freakin' hate them. Sure, the handling seemed nice, but the installation was a royal pain, and the rear bar makes unbelievable noise that reverberates throughout the car... and then the final ingredient: energy suspension bushings.

I've been driving with the front and rear sways bars for a while now. But now, the big question for today is about the energy endlink bushings that I just installed. I installed them with a 4 inch bolt and 1/2 inch spacer. Torquing these to 13 foot pounds seemed to be the general consensus. Doing so really squashed 'em, so I backed the pressure off to 10 ft pounds. They still look a bit squashed.

I took the car for a test ride in the rain. The front pushed a bunch of times in corners. I don't remember this happening before. Traction was really bad, even after the rain stopped. The front wheel spin on any corner when I am a bit hard on gas and the corner is damp. And then I was going up a steep hill. the front broke loose and I heard a very rapid BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM until the wheels stopped spinning. Never heard that before, and it was very loud, very powerful sounding. Kinda scared me.

Any ideas?

Regarding the rear bar, the bar actually contact that big piece of sheet metal that spans from wheel to wheel - you know, the one with the stock bar inside of it. The contact of the hotchkiss bar makes that sheet metal rumble at any speed. Sounds like the car is one big metal barrel. And when I accelerate, there is a creaking sound. I put sum rubber hose around the bar where it contact the sheet metal, and I adjusted it so that it doesn't make direct contact. This has stopped the noise, but not the creaking on acceleration. Anyone else notice this sort of thing?

The general consensus on the sway bar sticky was that the stock front bar is sufficient. Add a rear bar and shocks. The front pushing seems that you have too much front bar.

I *believe* the loud banging on wheelspin is the traction control braking the spinning wheel. Just a guess, though.

I added a Progress RSB and it is silent and definitely adds to handling on corners. It is not chassis mounted, maybe that makes a difference on residual noise.

When you install endlink bushings, you need to only tighten them enough that they just start to bulge, Any more then that and you creat excessive wear issues. If you find them too hard for your vehicle, a little secret is to soak the bushings in isoprohyl achahol for a few hours. Pardon my spelling, its been a long day of work.

The general consensus on the sway bar sticky was that the stock front bar is sufficient. Add a rear bar and shocks. The front pushing seems that you have too much front bar.

I added a Progress RSB and it is silent and definitely adds to handling on corners. It is not chassis mounted, maybe that makes a difference on residual noise.

Makes sense on all counts. In order to torque the nuts on the endlink bushing bolt to anything close to 13 ft. pounds, the nut is a good inch down the threads. If I back that off to 1/4 inch, should give more travel, and less compression of the bushings. It mght help with "too much bar" problem. Before putting on these bushings, the front was perfect and did not push.

Regarding the rear bar, you have my attention. The hotchkiss bar mounts on the same members that the Progress apears to, but on the inside of that arm, not the bottom. The orientation of the hotchkiss bar causes it to contact that sheet metal "c" that spans between each wheel -- hence the "rumblng" sound. I am guessing that the Progress bar will be mounted lower and won't make contact. Couple of questions:

1.) Does the progress bar have any ground clearance issues. I need the same clearance as stick because I drive on rutted and potholed forest roads while towing my trailer.

2.) Any creaking issues with the progress rear bar? The rear end creaks with hotchkiss bar whenever the front lifts. I think this may explain a creaking sound I hear upon accelleration.

i've never heard any rear bar that made noise. and i've been in cars with progress rear , trd rear and white line rear. none made noise. the noise is most probably something else.

i've never heard any rear bar that made noise. and i've been in cars with progress rear , trd rear and white line rear. none made noise. the noise is most probably something else.

I have koni shocks and a hotchkiss rear sway. When I jack up the front, the rear squawks and creaks. So, it's either the shocks, which I doubt, or the bar. The bar was formerly contacting part of the car which made a super loud rumbling sound. I have solved that , but not the creaking.

well when you jack the car up it creaks , that is normal. do you jack your car up constantly while driving? lol. it's normal , mine has done it since day one before i had the progress rear.

1.) Does the progress bar have any ground clearance issues. I need the same clearance as stick because I drive on rutted and potholed forest roads while towing my trailer.
Do a search on eBay for "xb sway". An auction for a Progress RSB will be there. See the pics. Sits really high when mounted. Most of the undercarriage sits lower.

well when you jack the car up it creaks , that is normal. do you jack your car up constantly while driving?

YES. Every time I step on the gas the rear-end creaks. that is because the front raises when you accelerate. This changes the attitude of the back and I get the noise. And by every time, I mean EVERY TIME.

your springs must be very soft and your shocks must be soft and halfway dead.

your springs must be very soft and your shocks must be soft and halfway dead.

Yeah... typical of a car that has all of 5000 miles on it. And with 1000 miles on the Konis, set in the middle of the range, I am sure they are clapped out too. :lol:

hmm i have virtually no front end lift with my coilovers......

what springs do you have ?

Concerning your handling problems after installing the rear bar; too much rear bar will make your car "tight" or "push" like your are describing. You need to loosen up the rear end to bring your handling back in line. Does the rear bar have any adjustments? You could also add more bar to the front.

Sorry you changed out the stock front bar. It was def. a waste of money. I have the stocker up front with the Energy bushings and Whiteline out back and it is a very quiet set-up. Handles like a slot car. I think after awhile people would quit buying those Hotchkis front bars and they would disappear off the market.

putting the larger bar up front should have severly decreased front end lift during accelleration. guess not. hmm

what springs do you have ?

Stock...

ok well my lil though here is the stiuff hotchkis front was only doing so much until you added the stiffer eurethane bush.

they took the slop out and made it way stiff up front , which will cause massive understeer aka pushing

Sorry you changed out the stock front bar. It was def. a waste of money. I think after awhile people would quit buying those Hotchkis front bars and they would disappear off the market.

I agree... waste of money. I wont cry about it, but it doesn't make me happy. The hotchkiss front sway bar is a pain in the butt to install, and it requires a front end alignment after you do. It gets pricey.

That said, the hotchkiss front bar with the stock end links work fine. Pretty much any corner at any speed and you are golden.

I backed the nut off the endlinks by 1/2 tonight, with 5 threads still showing. That 1/4 to 1/2 inch made a difference in the handling. Still... and here are my words of wisdom, I think people are better with the stock bar and energy suspension endlink bushings. No worries about teflon infused grease, alignments, or Toyota whining about aftermarket suspension BS.

ok well my lil though here is the stiuff hotchkis front was only doing so much until you added the stiffer eurethane bush.

they took the slop out and made it way stiff up front , which will cause massive understeer aka pushing

Word.

what suspension bushing kit did you get? do you have their stock number handy?

Diagnosing the squeaking problem and the solution to your understeer problem both involve one thing. Remove the Hotchkis rear sway bar. If the squeak goes away without the bar, there is the problem. To correct the understeer caused by the stiff (in roll) front end, you can add a bigger rear sway bar which will involve removing the Hotchkis bar as well.

Solid, sway bar torsional stiffness is a function of diameter^4. In comparing torsional stiffness, the Progress, Whiteline or TRD rear sways are all darn near 10 times as stiff as the rear Hotchkis sway. This will help put the two front wheels back on the ground.