Wow.... What we ALL Really needed... another Scion Club... (Heavy on the sarcasm)

I guess we now join norcal and the other notorious lands of multiple clubs "Competing" and such... If there is anyone who is going to "Compete"

I mean, seriously, does anyone really CARE what club they are in? When it became all about the "Club" and not about just hanging out with friends and such, then it lost all it's appeal for me and many others... The last thing we need is a who belongs to which club, and this club and that club mentality...

I would dare to say that most of us would just rather do away with the whole club mentality and just meet and hang and have fun as a group of people with at least one common interest... our cars... and Scionlife, which is the real "Club" in my opinion.

I, unlike others, don't share the ideals of wishing any new club "Blessings" or "Luck"... I rather wish that all peoples focus on what is more important anyways... just loving scions and hanging out to talk about them and have fun... without the ideal of "Clubs", as they are only good for one thing, "Competition", which is what 95% of people on here are not truely interested in.

It's why SE didn't work out, and why other "Clubs" aren't going to have the best of luck either....

I took myself out of the whole world of this drama, and ultimately, dissapointment... yet, continue to be dissapointed unfortunately...

It's no fun anymore... and I'm definately not the only one who thinks that is true. And surely "Ascension" isn't the answer...

I think it is time for me to chime in to this thread. I don't like getting in the middle of the this type of stuff because many view me as the little guy.

The very first Scion meet, Juanita Beach, Kirkland, Wa... no talks about clubs, no back stabbing going on, it was real, down to earth, meeting people, seeing the cars, watching the first Hot Lava xB come into the parking lot and everybody's head locked in that direction.

It was a community that gathered and started right here, on Scionlife and word of mouth that spread onward. A year or so down the road, the tension began when the people whom wanted clubs to surface and come about. Seattle Tuning, Scion Evolution, etc.

I went to every single damn meet up until the tension and the bickering began and once again, here it is, starting up the same way, competition among people who are friends, making things personal that should not be. While I am in the dark and I do stay quiet, I do observe very heavily on the forums but the recent activity is why I distance myself the past year because of this type of action and I'm sure that is why many people have dropped off.

We have tried all of these different things in the Pacific Northwest and I'm sorry to say that Scion Evolution is probably the strongest thing we have managed to hold on to. Whatever the logistics part that is going on in the background that myself and others don't know about, then maybe we should so we wouldn't be left out in the dark, be upset and would understand that hey, mistakes DO happen.

We are not NorCal or SoCal that has the dense population of having 2+ clubs. If we are going to make something work, we need to stick to our guns and stick to ONE thing and not be divided, Portland, Kitsap, Seattle, North Seattle.

Take a look at NorCal and how spread apart they are at and how successful they are. Micromanagement is something that belongs in a cooperation, not a club and with a group and a community like ourselfs, we are the unique kids out there and if you want more people to join up, guess what,

We have to work together as a region then as foes and back stabbing people. People who are interested in our community see this backlash and posts such as this will only result in hatred and making our community smaller.

All I can say is that I wish things were back in 2004/2005 when things were much more settled. People like to say that each time we go to meets and "this is the most cars I have ever seen" I'm sorry but 15 cars isn't the most held for a single get together. Back in 2004 and on a rather cold day with only 3 days notice, we turned in 26 cars and 39 people at Southcenter Mall/Barnes and Noble Meet...

If you all want to split apart, do your own thing, that's fine but do take a chapter from somebody whom has been here since the beginning and take advice from people that has been here since the beginning. If you want to make us successful, start there and work your way up.

In the meantime, all of this divided bullcrap is in it's own right, sickening to see but not only that, it is disappointing that we have came so far only to move backwards in our efforts.

I remember those days, Brian. In fact, later in the same week after I picked up my xB there
was a meet at SouthCenter. Impromptu, set up in a few minutes a couple days before, not
'sponsored' by any club, and fun. You took some pics there, Brian...

http://tijil.org/minimeet01.jpg

It was very cold and crisp that January night.

Shortly after that the meets became 'club meet and greets' rather than simply a bunch of
Scion people getting together. They became regular, and scheduled, and a "good one" was one
where I wasn't the only person in an otherwise vacant parking lot.

That was also when the group of Scion owners broke up into "this club" and "that club" and
rivalry - not competition - started to pit owner against owner.

These days, when there is a little gathering of Scion people, other Scion people are specifically
NOT showing up because of some petty disagreement. Instead of a larger group of Scion
friends getting together, we've ended up with smaller groups of people "making a point" of
some sort.

I'll leave it at that, because I don't know what the alleged problems are, nor do I really
care. I show up at the little "meets" because I enjoy my car, and enjoy meeting with other folks
who enjoy theirs. I'm not there to worry about having this week's approved logo, or because
being at a meet is 'required' or 'mandatory,' but because I want to see the cars and people.

I guess some folks are so focused and driven by 'competition' that if there isn't an 'edge' to
something it can't hold their interest. Just getting together for a good time doesn't register.
Sad.

I'm not a 'mover and shaker' in the 'local scene' and my box isn't some super fancy,
customized, 'diferent-just-like-everyone-else' show piece - Vanilla is a fairly plain, well cared for,
sparkling clean daily driver.

I don't NEED a club, and staunchly refuse to join one. I enjoy hobnobbing with other owners,
talking about our cars, keeping up with their real lives, and I don't need the restrictions of a
club to enjoy that.

Do we need - cancel that, let me start over - Do I need yet another club to enjoy my
car? I don't think so. I don't know the reasons for this, and my only hope is that this won't be
the final break in the local community. If it can somehow pull things together so the local Scion
community is once again whole, that would be great, but we will have to wait and see, I guess.
I, for one, won't hold my breath.

If clubs continue to proliferate we will all end up belonging to a club of one, each in competition
with every other owner instead of coming together.

I'm starting the White or Red Scions Driven by People Named Tomas club (WRSDPNT).
We have monthly meets at the local Jack-in-the-Box... http://tijil.org/xB_icon.gif

Good luck to everyone, and I hope it all works out to the benefit of the overall community.

Tomas

Does SE allow us to join other car clubs also or do you need to be exclusive to just one? If just being allowed to be in one is the case, then I'd rather not be in either.

For me, I guess I just don't care. I just want to be welcome on both sides.

I just joined SE and don't know what I'm gaining that I couldn't already do with you all anyway. Even though I don't or cannot do many things with you all, I sure as hell don't want to be not welcome at anything. And if it takes me being impartial to one club or the other, then that's what I'd rather do.

The only thing that SE requires is that you don't join another Scion exclusive club. I don't think you would ever be not welcomed at anything any club puts on. Thats what I love about the community....Everyone is welcome!

Jenna, SE prohibits membership in another "Scion Exclusive" car club. If the "other" club is open to more than just Scions, one is allowed to be a member of it, also.

Section 3.
Membership is subject to review by the Board of Directors.
Members cannot actively hold membership to another Scion exclusive car club.

Tomas

Well, cool. I will just join both then. Thanks Tomas and Jenn (your screen name rocks!)

If I remember correctly, being a part of SE in the by-laws is one club only.

Tomas, very damn well said. All of those pictures of those meets are gone.. stupid HD failure :(

There were other times that I remember well, especially meeting up with a few people and going out for a drive somewhere, piling into one or two cars and running around town for the weekend.

Probably the most rememberable is when me and Justin *hotboxn* did a very much spur of the moment drive to see a very upset Mt.St. Helens... Lava to see the Lava. The pictures that was the result of that trip was amazing and probably some of the best Scion pictures besides the one you showed Tomas.

That was one of the meets, the one I should have referenace was the one Kekai and others put together, went to the Renton Movie thertre then invaded the Ikea parking garage :D

These were the good times and as you said, I really don't hold my breath to see things that way again unless everybody but their differences aside.

A gal on Bainbridge Island that works at a coffee stand at the Bainbridge Island ferry terminal used to be a part of the regular "Scionlife" for a short period and I normally talk to before I board the ferry left a remark that led to my note above.

With all of that said, this is all I can really say now. And I'll say this is simply ONLY MY OPINION and the way I see it.

The community of Scion has grown though the greed of clubs have left many people in awe and despire that you "must" be in a club in order to feel appreciated and respected. The days that when you can own a Scion and simply go to a meet, enjoy some coffee, a movie, or any event for that matter and a good chat somebody, not so much about the cars but yourself, the world around us and the things that we thought was important no longer exists. We will always awe the cars, admire the people, but the reality is that this community is broken and divided and many fail to see it as that.

The day we all come together, put our heads together and start to have fun without being so serious about everything is when this region will bring itself back to "the good ole days"

I love every club out there but not when it splits us apart, makes us upset and angry at a friend because of a difference.

As I said earlier, we all have unique cars and all have done unique things to them to make them ours, but why is it that I always read about a new club or somebody was upset at a car show, heck even at Exposed, a GATHERING of friends and getting the chance to meet new people. Well... that answer, myself and many others will never know.

Wow... all the oldies and goodies seem to be in agreement... I long ago put any of the drama away, and stepped out of the "Club" mentality... The way I saw it, was that, Even if I wasn't SE, or any other club, I still was accepted and got to hang out with the same crew, so I chose to withdraw from SE and just have fun like I think it should be... just us owners... It's been somewhat refreshing not having to think or consider bylaws, drama, or the such, as I don't feel obligated to go along with any club concensious...

SE, Ascension, Scikotics, or no club at all, I just want to hang with all the local folks and just have fun... and It's not fun anymore.

I proudly add my name on the "Get back to the good ol' days" list... It started for Scions, and we all started bone stock... no clubs existed and we didn't need them... And I loved it... M&Gs were announced and whoever showed, showed....

I can hope it will once again be that way... heck, many of us want it that way.

I would dare to say that most of us would just rather do away with the whole club mentality and just meet and hang and have fun as a group of people with at least one common interest... our cars... and Scionlife, which is the real "Club" in my opinion.

Well said, Damn well said.

And it is true.. Scionlife is the original club.. the hot spot where most Scion dealerships will point to first and foremost.

Frankly, out of all of them (clubs) Scionlife is the only I only normally check besides xAtuner.

That was one of the meets, the one I should have referenace was the one Kekai and others put together, went to the Renton Movie thertre then invaded the Ikea parking garage :D

http://tijil.org/Scion_IKEA_05-18-05.jpg

Brian, I think one of my back-up drives still has the pics you posted on ScionLife from that cold January '05 meet. They aren't the high-res images from the camera, but if you want I could try to find 'em and get 'em to to you...

Tomas

Dude, awesome! yes send send send.

b.bundridge@gmail.com

say I know this has been pretty civil but it has gone off topic quite a bit.. perhaps we should close it, let all of us cool down and enjoy a good BOWLING GAME TONIGHT at Kent Bowl at 7:30pm!!!! Be there Monday Monday Monday!!

Ahem..

OK...my 2 cents! I have to say that this is progress. It would have inevitably happened sooner or later, and it could have started with anyone of us, yes even those that have posted here already! All it takes is, as mentioned earlier, someone getting fed up with things, or just needing to move on.

I do not know what has gone on in the community in the past, since I am a n00b, but from what I have seen since I have been here has been a bit un-nerving. I left Scikotics mainly because of the profanity on the boards, but also because of the lack of cohesion and membership in the area. Now I come to meet up here to see the same thing is going on.

I have to say I didn't/haven't heard WORD ONE from the people that are spliting off say anything negative about anyone or any aspect of the groups, period. I find that respectable in light of previous statements. This is a part of life in car groups, PEOPLE LEAVE, IT HAPPENS, either good or bad it happens. Who knows maybe things will not work out and they will be back! As for me I've said my piece, go ahead and rip me apart now if you must, I didn't come this far to just follow the flock, if i had wanted to do that I'd have a Honda. :come:

Brian, you talk about fun, I remember this summer before I really started posting on SL when I first ran into you off the freeway in Centralia and you told me about Exposed...good times..

Thank you Tomas for taking the time to split the two threads up.

I think it is time to schedule a good ole meet and greet at Southcenter after the Thanksgiving holiday.

I'm in, Brian. :)

Three days warning and a decent place to meet is all we usually need. :)

Tomas

I'm down

I'm down for after T-day too! Also...do we want to do the 4th Friday @ Northgate or is that pushing it?

DO IT!!!! NORTHGATE! NORTHGATE!

I'd probably would say no considering most will be on vacation and with family :)

Uh, Brian, these were all I was able to find in my old backup drive. I added a couple of the original mini-meet "where do we meet" pics just to complete the set. :)

Like I said, these aren't the full sized output from your Panasonic, but at least they are something.

http://tijil.org/macster/

Tom

Tom, thanks a lot man!! :D

Tomas is THE RESOURCE



I asked for some info a couple weeks ago and he came through in nothing flat...

Tomas is the man! 1 club 2 or none, it's about getting together and having fun with the people and cars. I joined SE and I might join ascension or I might just start holding my own car show in my carport. As long as there are cool people to hang with and show what I've done and see what other people have done I'm in.

I might just start holding my own car show in my carport.

:tap: I now have to clean my screen off of Diet Coke now... thanks.


:rofl:

*busy designing his new "club of one" vinyl*



http://tijil.org/CoO.gif



Tomas

I'm in to show at the carport. You can fix my fisher while I'm showing.

<<hmm bet ya some vintage or thrift stores have some "member only jackets :P

Holy crap Tomas, that is sweet! How can I get that on vinyl?

Any decent vinyl shop should be able to whip up something like that, Doug. That little drawing is just one that popped to mind - took me maybe 2 minutes. I doubt I will actually have anything made - I don't like a lot of stickers on my cars.

Tomas

<<hmm bet ya some vintage or thrift stores have some "member only jackets :P

muhhhahhahahhaahhahahhahahaha...


My dad sported a members only jacket... light wind breaker style... He was da MAN!

Doug I can get that vinyl made if your interested. let me know and I'll start working on it.

Matt that would be cool, if you can do it in silver that would be perfect. Let me know what it costs.

OK I will say only this from a Dealer perspective. And hopefully as an outsider that is not Biased. I don't not really care about one club or the other, I technecally cannot really be a part of any club as this would show favoritism. I am sorry that there seems to be a rift in the comunity. I thin one of the many things that has happened and I am even talking about here at my dealership as well. THere has been a loss for the comunity. Everyone has forgotten why we all love scion so much.

We are all a very different breed and we all like very different things, but one of the main things that ties us all together is SCION. Toyota has gone a long way to develope a great prdocut and help host a fun comunity. One of the things they hope would not happen to much is to see almost rival faction or Gangs so to say start deviding the comunnity.

After all Scion is about community. It is not about this club or that club, it is about people and different people that make the difference.

Scion means "Desendant" of royral blood. But I have seen so much since I have come back to the community. I feel almost like it is a different world that I have entered. I also find it hard to even fit in. I am somewhat discouraged by this.

But as a dealership representative I still have to plug on, and remeber what I support is Scion itself. I am very saddened to almost see waring factions within such a great community. I still have so many hopes for this community and I reall and mostly hope that it will continue to grow and become stronger and greater. I just hope that it is not at the expense of what we have built so far. A club is just a group of people getting together and having fun. We can all plan to do things together and there is still so much we can do as a group of very special and great people to help our comunity.

Scion was created off of an idea and with that idea became a great movement. And within that movement came great people that I admire very much. I lost touch for over a year on Scion and came back to a very different comunity..


As always I will always be here for anyone that is interested in Scion and the comunity as a whole, and working with corprate, I will continue to try and help put on some amazing and fun things for the comunity to do as a whole, and it will not matter as to wich club that you are in weather or not that you can attend. For me it is still about comunity. And it always will be. And if this is an unpoupular attitude then I am sorry but for me that is what scion is about. And I will continue to support the Scion comunity in any way that I can.

It is not always about the car sales for me, Scion is here for anyone that wants to enjoy it, and if they want to become a part of it all then great let's do it but let's have some fun while we are at it as well.

Let us not forget where we all started from. It was an idea............

What are your ideas?

and what do you all think.

Thanks for the straightforward comments, Victor.

I personally do not know the ins and outs of why people are splitting from (or joining) any organization, either now with Ascension, or in the past with Scikotics.

There is one 'rule' of the current largest club in the area that if I were a 'joiner' would keep me from joining. While I understand the logic that went into developing that rule, I feel that overall it is harmful to the community as a whole. It is, purely and simply, selfish.

To get y'all out of the suspense, it is the SE rule that tells folks that if they join another Scion club they will be kicked out of SE.

While it is intended to give SE stronger 'representation' at meets and shows, it does this at the expense of community unity - it strengthens SE while at the same time weakening the community as a whole.

I'm quite certain that others will have very different views of this, but that is my view, and is the final point that absolutely keeps me from joining with SE in any manner.

I have no idea if this has been a factor for others, but any club so paranoid and protective of itself that it has to say, essentially "These are OUR members, and they are not allowed to be YOURS!" is not one I could be comfortable in.

I'm proudly and unabashedly unaffiliated with any Scion club. In some small way that reflects, for me, my view of my xB: a simple, honest, unabashedly square, straightforward, proud to be different little urban utility vehicle.

My hope is that the Scion community - the people who, bottom line, are here because of these cars and their difference from the rest of the marketplace - will come together regardless of any club affiliations. (For me, I'd have to ask most of the Scion owners I know which club they belong to, if any. I neither know nor care. What is important to me is they own a Scion, and we can share because of that.)

Now that I've upset people in every club, I'll be quiet for awhile. :P

Tomas

lol.. eh.. i can understand that rule on why its there and can see how it could hurt the community and what not...

its the whole "conflict of intrest" aspect i think is one part of its existance.... and while theres probably few reasons or even Ideas/processes that could be considered "proprietarty" (sp?) in the car club scene... SE and other clubs that have that rule would like to keep them as thier own...
hence part of the reason there was a Logo change for SE.

anyways... i see both sides to having that rule. i dont necesarly think its a onesize fits all kind of thing, but when i signed up, i agreed to that rule as well as others...
Kinda like the milatary in the U.S (currently) its voluntary, people sign up for it on their own, and they are required to follow certain rules and directions... they may not like them... but they do it... put their time in and have the option to re-enlist or not.

either way.. no 1 is forced to sign up to join either... maybe enticed, offered incentives, asked or begged to sign up... but its ultimately the individuals choice to do so or not.

i finally can not say anything.

Its very interesting to me all the opinions flying around and I actualy see a lot of insight and thought in most of them. However, i think one key thing that was over looked in all of this was that we are not an exclusive club. heck, according to what we are thinking, you wont even need a car to join. We want to stay Scion centric for the first year in order to continue to the efforts we put in last year, but by no means are we making this a wierd thing.

We left SE because of some personal choices that we have yet to disclose to anyone who didnt specifically ask us in person and we still have yet to post any of that publically which we never will.

Sadly, this became a rip on Dustin thread. We can hide it with as many pretty words as we want but thats what it became. I wanted to start a new club not to exact revenge on SE for something i didnt like but to give myself a chance to grow in a new direction. to take on the challenges of owning a club and making it work. I've never been able to do that on a large scale and thought it would be a great opportunity to do so. If it works out then more power to us but if it doesnt, then what can i say? I surely cant say i didnt try.

I have been pondering another set of questions... There seems to be a lot of anger and hate surrounding me and my new venture. I'm not sure if that will continue and I hope it doesnt but I sure hope you guys realize which events I had a hand in last year that I will continue to have a hand in this year, God willing and the creek dont rise. Exposed, ToyotaFest, Drive Away Hunger, Feed the Need, Photoscavenger Hunt, SCAA's just to name a few. Are you going to boycot those events because I will be helping out or producing them? How strong is your conviction? Are you willing to NOT got o Exposed just because I am lucky enough to help put parts of it on? Seems like you are just alienating yourself in that case.

It has never been nor will it ever be my intention to divide the community. Which in and of itself is a funyny thought because if I have that much sway over your actions, i must have done something right OR I should run for public office because obviously I know how to captivate a crowd.

I would appriciate those who choose not to participate in the club aspect of this community not dog it. Once you try it, then by all means, feel free to but I havent seen a lot of you at any show. PErsonally I think you are mising out ona lot of all nighters trying to get that last part installed, RED BULL fueled dreams and endless hours of fun talking to crowds. but its not for everyone and I respect your choice not to participate. please respect mine to do so.

so i leave you with a few thoughts that i'm sure are going to raise a few eyebrows. Ascension is going to keep holding events. we'll keep doing some really fun stuff. we wont turn anyone away and we sure wont sneeze at your honda or your bimmer or anything else you bring to our events. Hopefully you wont sneeze at us when we show up to yours.

Dustin you and I have talked quite a few times on my trips up to seattle and back, and you know that no matter what anyone does on this board/community i will still support them in the greater good for the things to come. as per usual i will still be attending my usual events and random ones when i'm bored too! you can count on me if you ever need any help no matter what i do :silly: :clap:

DUstin please understand my tiraid that I went on was not directed at anyone in paticular. I am here to help support the community and I wanted everyone to understand where I was coming from as a dealership.

I will support what ever anyone wants to do with Scion. I just don't want anyone to feel that they are not a part of one community because they do not belong to a particular club or not.

The point here is that we are all a part of Scion weather it be with Asencion or with SE or Scikotics. Or what ever. We are all still a part of the whole, and we all became friends along the way.

I have fun going out and helping or supporting the various things that happen within this community that is why I am a part of scion. I believe in the strength that Scion has become and it is not because any one person did something better than the other.

It is because we all came TOGETHER as a community and made some great things happen and had a lot of fun along the way. To me that is what it is all about is having fun and doing something good for all.

It does not matter who you are. If you are a part of this community no matter what club you belong to or do not belong to then you are still a part of the comunity.

Dustin if you would like to go off on your own and start a new Scion car club then I am 100% behind you and praise you for taking on such a large undertaking.

Kai ki, If you want to head up Scion Evolution then by all means do it and I support you 100% as well, if any one wants to do anything to help better the comunity then I am 100% behind them as well.

I guess what I am trying to say to everyone, is that we all became Friends through one comon thing and that is Scion, so please do not forget that we are all still trying to accomplish the same thing and that is to develop a comunity and not boycot one person for aspiring to do something that is good for all. If one person has a great idea, then share it and let everyone make the decision for themselves wether or not it is a good idea for them. There will always be events with Scion and that will never stop. It is wether or not you would like to participate or not.

Scion is open to all when it comes to my thoughts and I applaude anyone that will try to include everyone to assist in keeping this community viable.

I really look forward to seeing EVERYONE at variuos meets, events, shows... whatever throughout the next year!! SE, SF, SG, SH, SI.... whatever the initials... some of the best put together people I have had the priviledge of sharing time with, I have met as a result of the Scion community!!!

and I so second that