Hey guys just sharing my race tonight. I met up with a couple friends tonight for a car meet. I got a couple of my TC boys together and just had a night out. Well one of my friends that i work with who invited me out has a 07 SI. Well after we got a bite to eat and went to the pool hall i asked him if he wanted to run and he said sure. Anyways heres my setup...05 TC, K&N cold air intake, dc headers and megan catback. Hes stock. We talkesd a little before we ran to see how we match up. Weight is pretty even, i think Si are a little lighter than we are. We have the torque but they have the HP. Anyways we got on the highway and went from 40. He hit his horn 3 times and we were off. I kind of got on it early but expected him to obviously catch up and pass BUT he didn't. I kpet pulling on him. So we took and exit and turned around and did it again. This time i waited a second after the third honk and took off and again left him behind. Then we did it a third time but he called me and said he wanted me to take off and see if he could keep up...surprisingly he didn't. I left him behind and never looked back. I m ean it was bad, it wasn'ty no 3-4 car lengths. We are talking about 10 cars and more and just kept leaving him. He called me and said how fast my car accelerates. So i came to 2 conclusions. 1 either the SI are not as fast as they make it out to be or 2 he wasn't shifting very well or even 3 it could be both...but also guys i have an AUTOMATIC!!! So auto TC FTW!

highly doubt he was even trying.


civic si > tC > auto tC

simple answer really : he wasn't trying. thats all to it.

yeah he should have killed you, on a 40mpg start your cars gears should be in 4th and he should be in third, he should have wooped you from the start, me must have took off in 5th gear.

considering hes my friend and see him on almost a daily basis, i highly doubt that he wasn't trying. I mean, what would be the point in that? Also it was 3 times so he had his chances to prove me wrong. Maybe let me win the first race, but 3! I had 2 of my tc boys watching also, maybe next time i will get some video feed for you guys.

hey i believe u man... I raced one at the track here in orlando... I have the HKS axleback and the injen intake.. he had DC headers and exhaust and i had him almost all the way down the drag... he got me towards the end and beat me by .2 secs

highly doubt he was even trying.


civic si > tC > auto tC

What do you mean we wasn't even trying? They are already racing.

Btw, your topic is kinda confusing... "raced a new SI tonight" :doh: use "last night"

On paper, it definitely seems like he should have won. Confusing results.

Maybe he is setting up to bet you money on a race

i started in second. i didn't put it in drive so i was in my power band. if that isn't good enough then my other friend in a tc which is a manual wasn't keeping up either. i pulled from him as well.

i started in second. i didn't put it in drive so i was in my power band. if that isn't good enough then my other friend in a tc which is a manual wasn't keeping up either. i pulled from him as well. i have raced a couple manual tcs and honestly if they didn't have more mods than i did then i beat each and every one.

maybe he doesnt know how to drive.......lol

i started in second. i didn't put it in drive so i was in my power band. if that isn't good enough then my other friend in a tc which is a manual wasn't keeping up either. i pulled from him as well. i have raced a couple manual tcs and honestly if they didn't have more mods than i did then i beat each and every one. :rofl:
the one true thing i do belive is the 2nd gear start that really does help but to pull on a 5pd i doubt.
if its from a roll and you do 2nd gear jump it might be even, a dead stop 5pd vs auto you should get wooped. have u done dead stop with a tc?

no it was tonight, i came straight home and made the post. i'll bet him money. i mean after seeing that and doing 3 straight times, you better believe i'll back myself up. trust me guys i thought i was going to get beat, i never thought i would win but only "keep up". but i proved him wrong atleast aginst him. i know with a better driver then it will be closer and maybe a different driver would beat me but only if i get another chance will i find out.

I have an auto 06 TC (k&n CAI, MMW headers, and axel-back exhaust) and one of my good friends has an 06 SI, and we raced acouple times (2 from a stop, and 2 from a roll) i took him twice and he took me twice. So i believe you when you say you pulled on him but if it was more than 5-6 car lenghts something was wrong!!!!

i had the same exact dream last night :rofl:

so you beat the driver of a 07 si not the car...... :rofl:

the only dead stop tc i went against was my friends, he had an intake an exhaust and i had my inate and headers at the time. i "think" he misshifted into second because he didn't pull on me, it was even. he had me by half a car length.

i started in second. i didn't put it in drive so i was in my power band. if that isn't good enough then my other friend in a tc which is a manual wasn't keeping up either. i pulled from him as well. i have raced a couple manual tcs and honestly if they didn't have more mods than i did then i beat each and every one. :rofl:
the one true thing i do belive is the 2nd gear start that really does help but to pull on a 5pd i doubt.
if its from a roll and you do 2nd gear jump it might be even, a dead stop 5pd vs auto you should get wooped. have u done dead stop with a tc?

07 SI is a 6-Speed by thw ay...

But Yea the SI should of beat ya he either wasn't Trying!...Just cant drive Stick!

I smoked tC's left and right when I had my Neon, but never beat an Si

are you sure its an SI, not misread HYBRID...

You got a good friend who cares about you lol

i started in second. i didn't put it in drive so i was in my power band. if that isn't good enough then my other friend in a tc which is a manual wasn't keeping up either. i pulled from him as well.

That's really bad for your tranny. Don't Do That!!!

why wuldn't an auto pull on a stick? from a roll?

i started in second. i didn't put it in drive so i was in my power band. if that isn't good enough then my other friend in a tc which is a manual wasn't keeping up either. i pulled from him as well.

That's really bad for your tranny. Don't Do That!!!

putting it in second wuld just be like him being in second, the stick tc.... so how could u of pulled on him? theirs no more power if u'r both in second, xpt the gearing, but even then the stick would prolly have it, and if u wanna not use drive u'r sposed to use 3rd, it lets it rev higher befor it shifts, bad gas, but a little more power "feel"

i race an 06 a while ago when i only had a injen cold air and no axle back... we were on the highway at about 60 and we both took off... the si's have a nice exhaust tone stock, i pulled maybe about 1/2car to a car then we let off and did it again... same thing.. his exit came up so he honked and waved (nice dude not some ricer) but i mean NO DISRESPECT but 6 -10 car lenths (wat were they ford feista or 2dr geo metro lenths).. tell ur buddy in the si to learn how to drive the car then do it again...u should only have 1-3 car lenths on him

yes i am sure its not a hybrid. i sat in it tonight and like i have said a couple times before, its my friends car. i don't understand why you guys keep saying he wasn't trying, if that is in fact the truth then why would he want to race me? Thats just retarded. hey i want to race you but i'm going to let him win????? so what you will but in the end, he lost and i came out on top. if it was at the track, you think they are going to say, hey that wasn't supposed to happen so lets give him another try. weather he started off in the wrong gear or mis shifted or just can't drive a stick period...he lost. races are about 60/40 in my opinion, 60 driver and 40 car, what good is a car if the driver can't drive it? maybe the SI is faster but tonight it wasn't.

That’s a great way to put it, 60/40! Another thing why are all of the people on here tryin to call BS and hate on you? I don't get it! You know what CONGRATS ON BEATING THE SI!!!! The SI is supposed to be a "faster" car, and if a fellow Scion driver pulls on one there should be more positive messages, not negative ones... I understand that no matter what there will be some skepticism but really we can't judge that. The person that posts will be the only one that really knows the truth! Maybe the driver of the SI sucks, or maybe the TC driver is just a good driver, or maybe it’s both! But why are we trying to put down a fellow Scion? When I go on Honda forums all of the people posting about beating a Scion get congrats and they become the king of world for that hour! We should become a little more like that! (Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying let’s become more like Civic drivers!) But seriously we should show some love for the SCION drivers that manage to beat ANY Civics! CONGRATS AGAIN!!!

step 1:can you drive stick? if so, please drive the SI and let him drive your auto or one of your friends who can "race" an auto tC.

step 2:get the video camera out, RACE, and watch the SI spank your tC.

step 3: post video, lock thread, game over.

switch drivers and see what happens, your friend most likely needs some practice...

it was a nice kill by him and sry i didnt say it in my last post but congrats on the win.... the si's are NOT THAT MUCH FASTER THAN OUR TC'S..... why do so many people think it a mid 14's like the rsx type 's

:rofl:

Ok, are we talking about and si (honda) or an is (lexus)? I can see the si happening, but I cannot see the is happening....

it was a nice kill by him and sry i didnt say it in my last post but congrats on the win.... the si's are NOT THAT MUCH FASTER THAN OUR TC'S..... why do so many people think it a mid 14's like the rsx type 's

The 07 SI has a different engine than the RSX Type-S...
The SI has more HP and has 6-Speed Tranny...

Now I own an xA and never seen a tC or Si race. but..

(All figures are from MSN autos and Scion Website. 06 Si and 06 tC numbers used)

Si = 197hp@7800 / 139tq@6200
tC = 160hp@5700 / 163tq@4000

Factoring in intake and exhaust and headers...

Si = 197hp@7800 / 139tq@6200 (I believe he said it was stock so these are no change)
tC = 180hp@Unknown rpm / 173tq@Unknown rpm

Weight...

Si (manual) = 2877 lbs
tC (auto) = 2970 lbs

And the finally, PRICE

Si = $20,290 MSRP
tC = $16,980 MSRP

I personally think the tC would win if only 2 conditions are met.

1. 139tq@6200 is easily pulled away by 173tq@Unknown rpm. There is an old saying, HP is how fast you can go, and TQ is how fast you can get there. 50 more tq is a significant difference in these vehicles. Besides the fact Automatics usually have more tq than manuals (see 350z)

He is not far behind from HP either. Of course without a dyno we do not know the numbers, but I believe my estimates are correct.

2. (Here comes the flamage) If the Civic Si's V-tec is similar to past V-tecs, it will render him weaker until he hits 5500-6000 rpm range when V-tec engages. Vvt-i will make the tC more capable of breathing better at any rpm range, and is not limited to a set amount.

I would bet 10 dollars tC wins, but not by 10 car lengths.

Just my .02 :)

automatic vs stick? jeez who do you think will win? he wasnt trying cause he know's you'd cry if he beat you.

it was a nice kill by him and sry i didnt say it in my last post but congrats on the win.... the si's are NOT THAT MUCH FASTER THAN OUR TC'S..... why do so many people think it a mid 14's like the rsx type 's

i guess you didn't realize that both the civic/rsx-s are the k20 series engine... almost putting out the same stats just to let you know..

Civic SI : 197 @ 7800 / 139 @ 6100 / 11.0:1 (Numbers taken off dealer site)
RSX-S : 201 @ 7800 / 140 @ 6000 / 11.0:1 (Numbers taken off dealer site)

if both were stick, and both were good drivers, i believe the SI would take it, but it could go either way, drivers race if the tC had those mods.. but you got smoked. its ok.

automatic vs stick? jeez who do you think will win? he wasnt trying cause he know's you'd cry if he beat you.

Not neccesarily my friend. Alot of drag cars are automatics because of the consistent shifts and ease of use. Slap shifters are used also, i beleive these us a "manumatic" system, u judge the shift point and hit up, it shifts.

Most of these cars will blow the doors of manuals in same class, because manuals are slower to shift than these super high performance cars. Plus the clutches would turn to butter after 3-5 runs :)

But, not all the time. I do not claim to be the end all of knowledge on such things :)

automatic vs stick? jeez who do you think will win? he wasnt trying cause he know's you'd cry if he beat you.

Not neccesarily my friend. Alot of drag cars are automatics because of the consistent shifts and ease of use. Slap shifters are used also, i beleive these us a "manumatic" system, u judge the shift point and hit up, it shifts.

Most of these cars will blow the doors of manuals in same class, because manuals are slower to shift than these super high performance cars. Plus the clutches would turn to butter after 3-5 runs :)

But, not all the time. I do not claim to be the end all of knowledge on such things :)

But they're not talking about drag cars. They're talking about sub $20k compacts.

if you are speaking of the slap(tiptronic), they actually are a little slow to respond.. but stick vs. auto, just depends on the car/driver.

automatic vs stick? jeez who do you think will win? he wasnt trying cause he know's you'd cry if he beat you.

Not neccesarily my friend. Alot of drag cars are automatics because of the consistent shifts and ease of use. Slap shifters are used also, i beleive these us a "manumatic" system, u judge the shift point and hit up, it shifts.

Most of these cars will blow the doors of manuals in same class, because manuals are slower to shift than these super high performance cars. Plus the clutches would turn to butter after 3-5 runs :)

But, not all the time. I do not claim to be the end all of knowledge on such things :)

But they're not talking about drag cars. They're talking about sub $20k compacts.

:blah: :blah: <-- that is what i think about this thread after constantly posting...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dNKaOD86wOE&mode=user&search=

Video by rhythmnsmoke
S/C tC with I/H/E vs Civic Si I/H/E.
Both are not stock, so it's not really same as your story but
even Manual S/C tC can't pull away Si both 30 and 40 roll.
I don't know how much HP Si gains from I/H/E setup, but S/C tC with I/H/E and even pulley can't spank that Si.
Yeah it could be driver but I don't know.

160hp auto(6k redline,4spd) vs. 197hp manual(7.9k redline,6spd)

I don't know :eyebrow:

I agree dude, these "civic" threads are just spam, lol

Mostly because the word "civic" brings out hatred and anger almost immeadiatly upon reading, especially in a scion forum.

btw, nice job and the win :) i believe ya. just not the 10 lengths part :p

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dNKaOD86wOE&mode=user&search=

Video by rhythmnsmoke
S/C tC with I/H/E vs Civic Si I/H/E.
Both are not stock, so it's not really same as your story but
even Manual S/C tC can't pull away Si both 30 and 40 roll.
I don't know how much that Si gains HP from I/H/E setup, but S/C tC with I/H/E and even pulley can't spank that Si.
Yeah it could be driver but I don't know.

160hp auto vs. 197hp manual.


What's an Injen cold air exhaust? :P

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dNKaOD86wOE&mode=user&search=

Video by rhythmnsmoke
S/C tC with I/H/E vs Civic Si I/H/E.
Both are not stock, so it's not really same as your story but
even Manual S/C tC can't pull away Si both 30 and 40 roll.
I don't know how much that Si gains HP from I/H/E setup, but S/C tC with I/H/E and even pulley can't spank that Si.
Yeah it could be driver but I don't know.

160hp auto vs. 197hp manual.


What's an Injen cold air exhaust? :P

hahahaha. :rofl: :rofl: nice catch.

it was a nice kill by him and sry i didnt say it in my last post but congrats on the win.... the si's are NOT THAT MUCH FASTER THAN OUR TC'S..... why do so many people think it a mid 14's like the rsx type 's

i guess you didn't realize that both the civic/rsx-s are the k20 series engine... almost putting out the same stats just to let you know..

Civic SI : 197 @ 7800 / 139 @ 6100 / 11.0:1 (Numbers taken off dealer site)
RSX-S : 201 @ 7800 / 140 @ 6000 / 11.0:1 (Numbers taken off dealer site)

if both were stick, and both were good drivers, i believe the SI would take it, but it could go either way, drivers race if the tC had those mods.. but you got smoked. its ok.

The SI engine has a different K-series engine that actually rated at 215HP or so than the Type-S they had to downgrade it so it wouldn't compete w/ it in the U.S. sales

didn't realize it lol

it was a nice kill by him and sry i didnt say it in my last post but congrats on the win.... the si's are NOT THAT MUCH FASTER THAN OUR TC'S..... why do so many people think it a mid 14's like the rsx type 's

i guess you didn't realize that both the civic/rsx-s are the k20 series engine... almost putting out the same stats just to let you know..

Civic SI : 197 @ 7800 / 139 @ 6100 / 11.0:1 (Numbers taken off dealer site)
RSX-S : 201 @ 7800 / 140 @ 6000 / 11.0:1 (Numbers taken off dealer site)

if both were stick, and both were good drivers, i believe the SI would take it, but it could go either way, drivers race if the tC had those mods.. but you got smoked. its ok.

The RSX Type-2 engine is rated at 210HP by the way..they older Type-S was 201HP
The SI engine has a different K-series engine that actually rated at 215HP or so than the Type-S they had to downgrade it so it wouldn't compete w/ it in the U.S. sales

well with this news. the SI should be losing by maybe only 8 car lengths or so. :rofl: :loser: :rofl:

face it guys, unless you're FI, our cars are slow, there's no point in arguing who's slower.

i've beaten si's before running on only exhaust and intake before i went FI....as i remember, the si does 7.2 on stock for 0-60 time....cause i remember going to get a dyno with my friend who has an '06 si, and after 3000 miles and off completly stock, he only made 148 whp....and that was only at 7800 rpm....so if the si couldn't get to redline, then he had no chance, seeing how the tC reaches full power before redline.....

Honestly... SIs look great on paper. Their "200hp" engines are attractive... the 6 speed is nice... but they have jack for torque. I've gone up a couple and it's pretty much neck and neck.

It's been said before... HP, now and forever, will always give way to technique.

face it guys, unless you're FI, our cars are slow, there's no point in arguing who's slower.

/thread

Last I checked we all owned scions. Whats with the hatered toward your own car! If the tC is so slow and lame, why didn't you buy a SI or whatever else car you want. Congrats to the race winner. I believe you and say good for you. Why are only a few people taking into account the semi-massive Tq difference? I mean, for god sakes, Tq is what gets the car going. I know this was already said and I must agree. Can't we just be happy a tC owner beat a SI civic?

i'm not hating on the tc, i love my car but i never bought it for speed which is what this thread is about. it's a slow car, and when you can realize that you'll enjoy your car even more knowing you didn't buy it for that. for you FI guys, i'm jealous :)

i'm not hating on the tc, i love my car but i never bought it for speed which is what this thread is about. it's a slow car, and when you can realize that you'll enjoy your car even more knowing you didn't buy it for that. for you FI guys, i'm jealous :)

I'm just of hearing a tC is slow. Its slow when compared to a WRX or STi or Acura RSX, duh. Now a xA or xB is slow. tC is not fast, but its certainly not slow.

i gave up on this topic lol.

I'm just of hearing a tC is slow. Its slow when compared to a WRX or STi or Acura RSX, duh. Now a xA or xB is slow. tC is not fast, but its certainly not slow.

hey! xA's are not slow! (well stock auto's are...) but if we go the distance we will win any race between tC or xB (best mpg :) )

When I had POS intake and POS exhaust I raced a tC at my local drag strip and was only 1 second behind.

I bet now I can match a stock tC manual :)

it was a nice kill by him and sry i didnt say it in my last post but congrats on the win.... the si's are NOT THAT MUCH FASTER THAN OUR TC'S..... why do so many people think it a mid 14's like the rsx type 's

i guess you didn't realize that both the civic/rsx-s are the k20 series engine... almost putting out the same stats just to let you know..

Civic SI : 197 @ 7800 / 139 @ 6100 / 11.0:1 (Numbers taken off dealer site)
RSX-S : 201 @ 7800 / 140 @ 6000 / 11.0:1 (Numbers taken off dealer site)

if both were stick, and both were good drivers, i believe the SI would take it, but it could go either way, drivers race if the tC had those mods.. but you got smoked. its ok.

The SI engine has a different K-series engine that actually rated at 215HP or so than the Type-S they had to downgrade it so it wouldn't compete w/ it in the U.S. salesdo you have any idea on what you are talking about
they are not 215hp stock
honda promotes the 197hp with the new rating system
05-06 type-s has 201hp with the same rating (old rating 210hp)
they loose the 4hp because of their drive by wire but without that it would be the same amount
they are identical in performance (driver's race)
similar weight, gear ratio, engine
si's have a better intake manifold but tack on the dbw it equals out powerwise
they gain more power than the type-s with bolt-ons because of their ecu being able to recalibrate itself
they just don't have k-pro (yet)

To add, and I'm just being real because I hear about these race stories on ClubRSX that for some unknown reason the RSX driver is in completely the wrong gear. At a 40 roll the SI driver should have been in 2nd and he would have been perfectly set just inside of vtec. Sadly, I see a lot people for some reason starting at 40mph in 3rd. Could be the case here.

Z

Now I own an xA and never seen a tC or Si race. but..

(All figures are from MSN autos and Scion Website. 06 Si and 06 tC numbers used)

Si = 197hp@7800 / 139tq@6200
tC = 160hp@5700 / 163tq@4000

Factoring in intake and exhaust and headers...

Si = 197hp@7800 / 139tq@6200 (I believe he said it was stock so these are no change)
tC = 180hp@Unknown rpm / 173tq@Unknown rpm

Weight...

Si (manual) = 2877 lbs
tC (auto) = 2970 lbs

And the finally, PRICE

Si = $20,290 MSRP
tC = $16,980 MSRP

I personally think the tC would win if only 2 conditions are met.

1. 139tq@6200 is easily pulled away by 173tq@Unknown rpm. There is an old saying, HP is how fast you can go, and TQ is how fast you can get there. 50 more tq is a significant difference in these vehicles. Besides the fact Automatics usually have more tq than manuals (see 350z)

He is not far behind from HP either. Of course without a dyno we do not know the numbers, but I believe my estimates are correct.

2. (Here comes the flamage) If the Civic Si's V-tec is similar to past V-tecs, it will render him weaker until he hits 5500-6000 rpm range when V-tec engages. Vvt-i will make the tC more capable of breathing better at any rpm range, and is not limited to a set amount.

I would bet 10 dollars tC wins, but not by 10 car lengths.

Just my .02 :)


it's not the old vtec its one that feeds power throughout (so i was told its like vteci or something) however when i drove it i felt a little kick around 7rpm sooo that car can definitely pull....i wonder if the si driver was taking full advantage of each of his gears (or maybe since it's an 07 he didnt want to drive it too hard too soon)...tell him to drop a gear on you next time and redline that machine otherwise he's wasting a fun car =)

Last I checked we all owned scions. Whats with the hatered toward your own car! If the tC is so slow and lame, why didn't you buy a SI or whatever else car you want. Congrats to the race winner. I believe you and say good for you. Why are only a few people taking into account the semi-massive Tq difference? I mean, for god sakes, Tq is what gets the car going. I know this was already said and I must agree. Can't we just be happy a tC owner beat a SI civic?

we are in desperate need of lsd though...

i love the tC and am buying it b/c of the price compared to the si (even though that was a fun drive) so point is: just have fun driving! good job on the win and just be safe on the road -- no rain and be careful at night...please!!!

FWIW, the new Si and the old IS that someone mentioned are only low 15 second cars in stock form...

I keep trying to find one...Too many RSX's

I keep trying to find one...Too many RSX'smy cousin has a 07 si
if you raced a stock type-s (perferably 05-06 models)
then you pretty much raced an si

FWIW, the new Si and the old IS that someone mentioned are only low 15 second cars in stock form...well my friend with the 07 SI last summer hit a 14.9 with it, all stock.

Yeah i took on an SI from start and it was hard to keep up with him he was stock, and i had a few mods at the time.. but i did keep up

FWIW, the new Si and the old IS that someone mentioned are only low 15 second cars in stock form...well my friend with the 07 SI last summer hit a 14.9 with it, all stock.

Thank you.
I think (I can't remember, lol) I was trying unveil the "mystery" of what these cars are capable of in terms of 1/4 performance.