View Full Version : The real deal on horsepower gain in the new xB.


Toasted-_-
02-11-2007, 05:58 AM
Old xB:
Weight - 2470.
Horsepower - 103
Power to weight ratio -1:.0417

New xB:
Weight - 3100 (appx)
Horsepower - 158
Power to weight ratio -1:.0509
You might think that's a 34% increase in horsepower right? :nails:

WRONG!

After adding that extra weight of the new beast, you only get a 9.2% gain.

Now, I can get 10 horsepower more from my 2006 box by adding a cold air intake and a TRD exhaust. That's a 9.7% gain for about $700 investment. These are probably the most common performance mods on the xBs out there driving around daily sooo.....

I predict that most people won't be that impressed with the so-called horsepower gains of the new 2008 xB.

BUT... that's just my opinion.
Food for thought. :lalala:

ZOMGXB
02-11-2007, 06:34 AM
BWAHA! Thanks for the info! :)

I'll be sure to keep that in mind when being challenged at stoplights by kids in the new B2's who think they're going to smoke me. :)

Especially if they have more than one person in the car! :rofl:

Sciond
02-11-2007, 06:40 AM
don't think those mods give a true 10hp.....

Toasted-_-
02-11-2007, 06:47 AM
don't think those mods give a true 10hp.....

So maybe it's not exactly 10 but it does add power... the point is, you only get a 9.2% gain over a 1st gen box.

scion_jon
02-11-2007, 06:51 AM
how do you feel against the xb2 racing a tc any thoughts on that?

TonyTazaam
02-11-2007, 06:53 AM
yeah I assumed that the new xb was going to weigh quite a bit more so i knew that it wasn't going to be that much of an increase in power/weight ratio. but some may still like the car it has been americanized (made BIGGER) if you like it bigger, more power to ya. I think I'll stick with my 1st gen xB even though the new ones are interesting.

scion_jon
02-11-2007, 06:58 AM
well my freind wants the new one. only so we could race and if he wins tell me i got beat by a box, but i dont think its possible

Toasted-_-
02-11-2007, 06:59 AM
how do you feel against the xb2 racing a tc any thoughts on that?

Well a tCs power to weight ratio is 1:.0531
...that's 5% better than the new xB so it's a pretty sure bet the tC would win. :clap:

scion_jon
02-11-2007, 07:04 AM
thatnks i was wondering what the weight ratio was.

lol if he gets the s/c i guess im toast

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f382/scion_jon/toast2-1.jpg
(pic from my shirt lol)

Boxer_Rebellion
02-11-2007, 07:08 AM
What is important to the tuners on here (and aren't we all?) is the POTENTIAL of the new powerplant. 300hp is easy, and 500-600hp is achievable. You might be able to get 200hp out of a first gen (ZPI turbo) but probably not for long :)

TheQuietThings
02-11-2007, 07:17 AM
Ladies and gentleman you are forgetting about the TORQUE!!!!

This car should pull a 0-60 in 8 seconds.
The old xB was 10 seconds?

scion_jon
02-11-2007, 07:26 AM
whats the 0-60 time for the tc?

Toasted-_-
02-11-2007, 09:19 AM
Ladies and gentleman you are forgetting about the TORQUE!!!!

This car should pull a 0-60 in 8 seconds.
The old xB was 10 seconds?

You're right!

Tourqe to weight ratios:

Old xB - 24.45:1
New xB - 19.31:1

roughly 20% better.

mandangalo
02-11-2007, 09:39 AM
gearing is a factor too

xjamiex
02-11-2007, 09:40 AM
Sounds so nice it could be done.

typhoonorchid
02-11-2007, 12:51 PM
I have the spec weight of my box at 2395 lbs.
with my 5-speed I know my stock 0-60 was better than 10 sec.

With 103 hp thats 1 hp for every 23.25 lbs
xb2 = 1 hp to every 19.62 lbs

that's about a 15% improvement

If the torque to horsepower ratio is about the same in both engines then that gain would also be similar. Although now, you can break it down to how fat the curve is, etc...

I/H/E could get an xB1 a 10% improvement.

xB2 will be faster, just not a whole lot quicker, stock.

CBSIMONSEZ
02-11-2007, 02:54 PM
Hold on a sec. Where on Gods green earth did Scion say that the additional weight was almost 700 more pounds? Yeah some extra weight might be in play, but as much as 4 grown adults more? I think that you are counting your chickens before they hatch.

BTW .... i lived with a slow 1st gen ... ANYTHING remotely faster then what i have now would be apprecaited.

Garage1217
02-11-2007, 03:02 PM
No one said that, he is speculating on the weight. I am betting she will come out right around 2950. +/- 50 lbs for a manual is my guess.

If you want to compare, simple compare a current stock tc to a stock xb. That is the power difference you will feel.

CBSIMONSEZ
02-11-2007, 03:10 PM
^^^^ still not fair to make that assement. Unless you were part of the design team that made this car from the raw steel to what it is as displayed .... no one can make that guess. I think there is a pobbibility that they may have used lighter components here and there .... maybe used different materials. Until someone sets one on a scale or Scion states the weight im not at all going to be concerned.

Again .. much like when i bought my first box ... im not looking to run the 1/4 mile in under so many seconds .. nor am i trying to keep up with any Porsches or Ferraris.

Garage1217
02-11-2007, 03:19 PM
^^^^ still not fair to make that assement. Unless you were part of the design team that made this car from the raw steel to what it is as displayed .... no one can make that guess. I think there is a pobbibility that they may have used lighter components here and there .... maybe used different materials. Until someone sets one on a scale or Scion states the weight im not at all going to be concerned.

Again .. much like when i bought my first box ... im not looking to run the 1/4 mile in under so many seconds .. nor am i trying to keep up with any Porsches or Ferraris.


Not fair?? *LOL* I did not steal a toy from you, that would not be fair haha. I making an educated guess after knowing the underpinnings of the car, thinking they would try to keep the weight down and seeing it first hand. No matter the power difference from a 2az vs a 1nz is substantial. You cannot argue that. I can tell you she will not be under 2800 period. I will hold on to my best guess :) See what happens soon!

Milhamscion
02-11-2007, 03:31 PM
New A/T xB = 3085 lbs. I think I read it in the new maglogue.

Garage1217
02-11-2007, 03:44 PM
If that is true, the manual will be right at 3K even.

Toasted-_-
02-11-2007, 05:36 PM
I did my math based on about 3100 pounds for the new xB.

The_Sciontologist
02-11-2007, 08:12 PM
Old xB:
Weight - 2470.
Horsepower - 103
Power to weight ratio -1:.0417

New xB:
Weight - 3100 (appx)
Horsepower - 158
Power to weight ratio -1:.0509
You might think that's a 34% increase in horsepower right? :nails:

WRONG!

After adding that extra weight of the new beast, you only get a 9.2% gain.

Now, I can get 10 horsepower more from my 2006 box by adding a cold air intake and a TRD exhaust. That's a 9.7% gain for about $700 investment. These are probably the most common performance mods on the xBs out there driving around daily sooo.....

I predict that most people won't be that impressed with the so-called horsepower gains of the new 2008 xB.

BUT... that's just my opinion.
Food for thought. :lalala:

but can you slap a TRD supercharger on your xB1 and keep your warranty? Point is, you will never get a whiff of even close to 200 warrantied horsepower in your classic box. Hell, you won't even smell 150, yet it is an option in the xB2.

BUT... that's just my opinion.
Food for thought. :lalala:

TheQuietThings
02-11-2007, 08:16 PM
How much power did 1.5 xB put down to the ground? 90? [5 speed]]

The 2AZ-FE puts around 150 to the ground [5 speed dyno proven].

thats around a 65% increase in horsepower...
the new xB is definitely going to move compared to the previous model...

and for the one who asked about the tC 0-60, it is around 7.4 depending on how well the driver can launch and how well they can shift from first to second.

Max
02-11-2007, 08:31 PM
I picked up a maglogue at the Chicago Auto Show yesterday. I don't have a scanner, but I do have a camera.

Enjoy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/xbscion/DSC01889.jpg

Rich_Manas
02-11-2007, 09:35 PM
omg! here we go with power to weight ratio numbers and dyno calculators.

there's no bolt-on part that can substitute for increased displacement and torque. you can put a s/c or t/c on the 1NZ and it still won't be as fast or respond as well throughout the rev range as a motor with increased size and torque.

if you guys want to go mag racing. tC manual 0-60 will range anywhere from 7.1-7.8 and B1 manual will go from 10.4-11.1. even if the B2 does it in the low 8's 0-60 it's still a 2 sec advantage stock for stock. 2 sec at a 1/4 mile track is about 2 to 3 car lengths. if you want to see real world passing numbers from 30-50mph or 50-70mph the car with increased displacement will always win versus a car with a 1.0L less displacement.

yes, the car weighs more and that's why the xD motor is not in the B2. the 2AZ is the perfect choice if the weight of the car turns out to be around 2900-3085lbs.

Rich_Manas
02-11-2007, 09:45 PM
Old xB:
Weight - 2470.
Horsepower - 103
Power to weight ratio -1:.0417

New xB:
Weight - 3100 (appx)
Horsepower - 158
Power to weight ratio -1:.0509
You might think that's a 34% increase in horsepower right? :nails:

WRONG!

After adding that extra weight of the new beast, you only get a 9.2% gain.

Now, I can get 10 horsepower more from my 2006 box by adding a cold air intake and a TRD exhaust. That's a 9.7% gain for about $700 investment. These are probably the most common performance mods on the xBs out there driving around daily sooo.....

I predict that most people won't be that impressed with the so-called horsepower gains of the new 2008 xB.

BUT... that's just my opinion.
Food for thought. :lalala:

but can you slap a TRD supercharger on your xB1 and keep your warranty? Point is, you will never get a whiff of even close to 200 warrantied horsepower in your classic box. Hell, you won't even smell 150, yet it is an option in the xB2.

BUT... that's just my opinion.
Food for thought. :lalala:

:clap: i agree!

190whp on the B2 with the trd s/c. plus any other aftermarket f/i kits available for the tC would work will make the B2 the next tuner craze. can you imagine a B2 pulling up next to an evo and spanking it. that would be the ultimate sleeper.

bBlover
02-11-2007, 10:02 PM
hmm

The_Sciontologist
02-11-2007, 10:39 PM
Old xB:
Weight - 2470.
Horsepower - 103
Power to weight ratio -1:.0417

New xB:
Weight - 3100 (appx)
Horsepower - 158
Power to weight ratio -1:.0509
You might think that's a 34% increase in horsepower right? :nails:

WRONG!

After adding that extra weight of the new beast, you only get a 9.2% gain.

Now, I can get 10 horsepower more from my 2006 box by adding a cold air intake and a TRD exhaust. That's a 9.7% gain for about $700 investment. These are probably the most common performance mods on the xBs out there driving around daily sooo.....

I predict that most people won't be that impressed with the so-called horsepower gains of the new 2008 xB.

BUT... that's just my opinion.
Food for thought. :lalala:

but can you slap a TRD supercharger on your xB1 and keep your warranty? Point is, you will never get a whiff of even close to 200 warrantied horsepower in your classic box. Hell, you won't even smell 150, yet it is an option in the xB2.

BUT... that's just my opinion.
Food for thought. :lalala:

:clap: i agree!

190whp on the B2 with the trd s/c. plus any other aftermarket f/i kits available for the tC would work will make the B2 the next tuner craze. can you imagine a B2 pulling up next to an evo and spanking it. that would be the ultimate sleeper.

now you're thinkin...just because its a grocery-getter doesn't mean it can't haul some a$$

spwolf
02-12-2007, 12:51 AM
New xB will be around 2 sec faster 0-60... Not enough?

Not to mention that it will be whole another class in SAFETY as well.

PakanaHerruus
02-12-2007, 01:04 AM
lets all be honest here.. we didnt buy our boxes to be fast.. styling is more the reason.. if you wanted a fast car you would have bought something different.. i know someone who drives a stick can be significantly faster then someone an automatic.. but a mustang is still faster then both,

my opinion on the new box.. it doesnt look as good as the first gen.. its more like the HHR.. more horsepower isnt gonna persuade me otherwise..

Rich_Manas
02-12-2007, 01:20 AM
lets all be honest here.. we didnt buy our boxes to be fast.. styling is more the reason.. if you wanted a fast car you would have bought something different.. i know someone who drives a stick can be significantly faster then someone an automatic.. but a mustang is still faster then both,

my opinion on the new box.. it doesnt look as good as the first gen.. its more like the HHR.. more horsepower isnt gonna persuade me otherwise..

yes, 99.9% didn't buy the B1 for it to be a race/drag car but for its styling but the power increase is not about raw power (mustang, vette, 911). it was more for usable real world power. people who buy a car that can do 0-60 in under 4 secs will need it for what, they're 20 minute commute to work?

the power increase will be welcomed with 4 people in the car trying to pass a slow vehicle going 60 mph in the middle lane while everyone else is doing 75-80mph and you want to go the left to pass and realize the car has power to do it. the 1NZ was perfect with a driver but start adding passengers and that motor got stressed and took forever for power to build up.

HHR? i can understand if you said HHR and PT Cruiser but HHR and B2 i can't see it.

xBster
02-12-2007, 01:26 AM
^^^^^^ x2...

typhoonorchid
02-12-2007, 03:24 AM
with 4 people in the car trying to pass a slow vehicle going 60 mph in the middle lane while everyone else is doing 75-80mph and you want to go the left to pass and realize the car has power to do it. the 1NZ was perfect with a driver but start adding passengers and that motor got stressed and took forever for power to build up.

4 words-"drop it into 3rd" Instant max engine power

Rich_Manas
02-12-2007, 07:55 PM
with 4 people in the car trying to pass a slow vehicle going 60 mph in the middle lane while everyone else is doing 75-80mph and you want to go the left to pass and realize the car has power to do it. the 1NZ was perfect with a driver but start adding passengers and that motor got stressed and took forever for power to build up.

4 words-"drop it into 3rd" Instant max engine power

whether you drop it in 3rd@70mph or 2nd@30mph with a full load it took forever to pass a slower vehicle. the 2.4 will not have that problem.

i know what its like not to have displacement. i went from a 5spd I6 rwd with good torque to pass in 5th gear w/o downshifting to 4th or 3rd. now i have a 6spd I4 rwd that in order for me to quickly pass i have to d/c rev-match 2 to 3 gears. there's no substitute for displacement.

UnFocused
02-12-2007, 08:47 PM
Well I can add that my Element wieghs approx. 3500 pounds with a 2.4L with 160HP and it has enough tourque to send the AWD system crazy in 1st and second. And it is much peppier than my 05' xB was. I will definitly buy a new xB auto trans even with the added wieght- its sill 400 lbs lighter than my element!

vintage42
02-12-2007, 08:49 PM
Hold on a sec. Where on Gods green earth did Scion say that the additional weight was almost 700 more pounds? ...
It has appeared in several articles. The car is 12" longer and 3" wider, with a heavier engine, so the weight increase is to be expected.

draxcaliber
02-12-2007, 09:08 PM
meh, if they had made this car two years ago, i might have gotten it over my tc. i thought the xb looked cool, had potential, and was extremely comfortable, but that weak little engine made it a seemingly no brainer for me in the end. i was getting rid of my old ford explorer with its 160 hp 225 ft-lb v6 stuggling with its 4189 curb weight for my tc which is a corvette in comparision.

Toasted-_-
02-13-2007, 02:00 AM
I love that "weak little engine". It gets 30 MPG! Just filled up today and I got 30.2 on that tank. I drive this thing uphill everyday and It passes cars just fine. I stay at 65 to 70 mph all the way up to home.

All this talk of passing and how hard it is in the xB. How fast do you need to pass a car???????

Americans still want gas hog, power to burn cars when the rest of the world is trying to be frugal. I'm pleased with the compromise that the xB offers.

In 3 more years when gas hits $4.25 a gallon, I'll still be laughin at the pump. :silly:
Sure maybe you can afford the xtra cost in gasoline, but sooner or later we'll have to start driving cars that get more than 28 MPG.

That's my rant, I'm done now, flame on!!! :lalala:

Rich_Manas
02-13-2007, 04:33 AM
I love that "weak little engine". It gets 30 MPG! Just filled up today and I got 30.2 on that tank. I drive this thing uphill everyday and It passes cars just fine. I stay at 65 to 70 mph all the way up to home.

All this talk of passing and how hard it is in the xB. How fast do you need to pass a car???????

Americans still want gas hog, power to burn cars when the rest of the world is trying to be frugal. I'm pleased with the compromise that the xB offers.

In 3 more years when gas hits $4.25 a gallon, I'll still be laughin at the pump. :silly:
Sure maybe you can afford the xtra cost in gasoline, but sooner or later we'll have to start driving cars that get more than 28 MPG.

That's my rant, I'm done now, flame on!!! :lalala:

the 1NZ is fine with just the driver but what were saying is when its starts to get loaded that's when it starts feeling stressed and underpowered.

i think we're getting there in terms of accepting small fuel efficient cars again and it shows in small cars sales. the whole americans driving gas guzzlers is misleading. there are plenty of cars in europe that are not small and diesels. just visit germany for a day and you'll see plenty of 6 and 8cylinder cars on the road.

hopefully we don't get to that point and the american gov't knows it. when gas goes up people don't go out and spend their hard earned money and this has a major effect on the economy.