With the intro of these new scion models this site may never be the same. I still want Toyota to drop the idea of calling the new "xB" an xB. There is already an xB and there will never be another. Yes i know we call the US version of the bB and xB but at least the 1st gen xB maintained that classic body style. This new car called an xB is i'm sure a sweet car but as far as i'm concerned calling it an xB is as bad as calling it a bB. The new bB looks nothing like the old gens either but it also doesn't look like the new xB. If we are to have a new xB it should look like the new bB. I believe that this fiasco goes against what we are doing here at scionlife. This is just an oppinion of course but i have to ask....how is this going to change the look and funtion of scionlife? It's hard enough trying to explain the difference between 1st and 2nd gen bBs and between bBs and xBs. If they would've just called it something else (xE, xF, xG, sEx) anything but xB i wouldn't be going on this rant. How shallow and fickle does Toyota think we are. Just because some people had issues with our xBs doesn't mean they have to reinvent the wheel and call it a box. Do you get me? Scionlife should not change because we are the enthusiasts not the idiot executive who decided to name this new car an xB. That person has no idea the loyalty some of us have to this car. Make fun of me if you want but then ask yourself "why am i driving an xB in the first place?" I bought one because it was something completely different from the mainstream American mindset. Now Toyota wants to throw that whole concept out and appeal to everyone who insulted your xB. I'm just one guy and i don't know how to make Toyota understand or alot of you most likely but i don't want this new car too be called an xB if for nothing else but the integrity of this community.

...quit your whining dude. seriously. you own an xb, not the concept of the xb. who is to say that some heartless executive made this choice? how do you know the designors don't love the car as much as you do? car change with each generation no matter how iconic they are. look at the corvette! it has had many makeovers, same with the nissan z, another classic car.

anyway, the xa was a dud, it gets replaced by the xd to separate the dud with hopefully the next big thing, the xb was a hit, so it gets another generation. the tc was also a hit, so it will probably get another generation named the tc, if the xd sells well, it will get a second gen too.

you want integrity? your a 1st gen owner of a car with a cult following that totally deviated away from the mainstream car design. that is something you will always have, just like i have the a tc from the very first year they were sold. i don't know why you guys are so militant about the 2nd gen of scions. all this hype and anticipation and your complaining about the name!

as far as there being only one xb, there are four, they are the toyota echo, the scion xa and jdm version, the bb. what makes it an xb? the drivetrain, the exterior, or the name?

Its a little too late, its the xB no matter what us whiners say. :)

Yes, but in answer to the tC folk who do not understand the problem with that (nor, apparently do they care to), I would like to quote from another of the seemingly endless threads on just how distasteful this is to so many of those firstgen xB owners.

For all of the tC lovers who also love the new xB, imagine this for a minute...

"Next year they redesign the tC (keeping the same name) and give it a 103 hp Yaris engine, [square off all the lines], and make it smaller.... A LOT of tC owners would be crying foul and demanding that the name be changed... I mean, it's not a 'tC' anymore, right?"
...
-THE DON ("[ ]" and emphasis added)
See: http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2306659#2306659

And yes, Scion can call the xB2 whatever they want. I'm just hoping they understand that it bothers many of their most loyal buyers.

Tom

lol, if they did that to the tc, i'd be that much more gratful i got my first gen. plus, then the value of our 1st gen tc would sky rocket because of they are more more desirable!

Thanks Tomas. Draxcaliber i had an opinion and i expressed it. That's part of what these forums are for. That's all i can say to you without getting banned.

Yes, but in answer to the tC folk who do not understand the problem with that (nor, apparently do they care to), I would like to quote from another of the seemingly endless threads on just how distasteful this is to so many of those firstgen xB owners.

For all of the tC lovers who also love the new xB, imagine this for a minute...

"Next year they redesign the tC (keeping the same name) and give it a 103 hp Yaris engine, [square off all the lines], and make it smaller.... A LOT of tC owners would be crying foul and demanding that the name be changed... I mean, it's not a 'tC' anymore, right?"
...
-THE DON ("[ ]" and emphasis added)
See: http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2306659#2306659

And yes, Scion can call the xB2 whatever they want. I'm just hoping they understand that it bothers many of their most loyal buyers.

Tom

I missed that post, but it really does put it into perspective for me.
Yaris engine in a tC...... *shudder*

Ok I will make everyone happy and make my mom get the personalized plate XB2 on her xB once she gets it. :P

Don't get me wrong. Had i not bought a 1st gen xB i would be totally down with the new gen and not be "whining" as Draxcaliber so politely put it. Of course i would also lack the appreciation for the car's heritage as many people do with other vehicles. Think about the Mustang. How many do you see on the road and how many of those driver's really know what it means to own one? The mustang went through some crazy changes and had similar problems with loyalty. I've talked with alot of young guys who got an xB and complained about not getting the promised gas mileage, never taking into consideration the factors involved in getting good gas mileage. You can drive a hybrid like you think you're a racer and get $hi+ MPG. It's amazing to me how full of it alot of young guys are. Not to say i'm not full of it too. I guess i'm not normally like this. I say a car is a car but when you get involved in something with a cult following there is bound to be some irrational loyalty. If you don't get it you don't get it and that's fine. All i'm saying is that the original xB will always be the only xB and the new ones are something else Toyota decided to call an xB for whatever bs reason.

well all cars change its part of the business and plus the xb is the one thing everyone knows about scion even the people hat ave no clue tc and xa owners speak up. how many times have you been talking to someone that doesnt know about our little cult we have going. And you off handly mention you own a scion, how many people have gotten oh the box or oh that xb or what ever. Honestly the tc sells great the xa not so much but the xb name is what stand outs. Yea it may make a few people mad that its still called what it is but my point is the company does listen to us on our ideas and desiress but they also have to look out for themselves and keep a job. so embrace it our community will grow and people will be jealous of the first gen xb people

okay, i apologize for the whining remark, but i was searching everyday waiting for the new models to be released and thought they looked pretty good. as for heritage, scion is is still less than like half a decade old. its only heritage is no pure pricing, and personalization. i have never seen an add bragging about their mpg.

do all scions have to be front-wheel drive? do they all have to have 4 cyl engines? will the transmission chioces always be a 4 spd auto and a 5 spd manual?

one of the goals of scion was to have a changing model line up of cars and each one has had a pretty set niche.
the xb was absolute stand out in a crowd car with its extremely boxy shape. the new xb is still boxy, but now it has some body lines, fender flares and some curves. some xb owners have been working the engine when they are carrying a group of people, now you have a bigger more powerful engine that can benefit from all the big power upgrades made for the tc's engines, now modified to fit the engine bay of the next gen xb.

The xB was, obviously, a standout product that got a tremendous amount of recognition for Scion. When it comes down to the sole reason for calling the new tC station wagon "xB," it is to trade on the recognition factor of the original. This is especially true with Scion corporate types admitting that they are setting the xD as the follow-on for the "City Car" niche, not the nextgen xB.

It was purely a business decision for Scion to trade on the xB name, what they missed was just how protective and possessive the "cult following" of the xB was. They didn't expect us to object, I guess.

Maybe that was just one of the questions they forgot to ask us when they were deciding what to change, just like they totally forgot to ask what NOT to change.

Its over, we will live with it, but we will never be quite as comfortable with the company.

We are still Scion people, we still want the company to succeed, and we still like what they represent. The just screwed up in a small way.

http://tijil.org/PSTOC_av.gif

Well said, Tom. But I think Scion screwed up BIG time. Cos they betrayed a UUV into a SUV...and lost all uniqueness about the car along the way. Personally, it's beyond disappointment for me. Only if they rolled out something like the Japanese bB in the future will I be impressed again. Man...I wish I had enough money to buy another xB1.

Hmmmm... just how does the genII 'box size up against the PT-loser or the HHR? I mean length-width-hight and weight?

I wonder if it isn't midway between the 'Classic and the Loser-cruizers size...

just my wunderings is all

Overall Length
xB 155.3
xB2 167.3
PT 168.9
HHR 176.2

Overall Width
xB 66.5
xB2 69.3
PT 67.1
HHR 69.1

Overall Height
xB 64.6
xB2 63
PT 63
HHR 63.1

Wheelbase
xB 98.4
xB2 102.4
PT 103
HHR 103.5

Weight
xB 2395
xB2 3100
PT 3031
HHR 3155

Enjoy.

I am glad the xB lives on regardless of wether I like the new design. Just think--in twenty years there will be a throwback version like they have done with the Mustang and Charger. I even think the HHR was a throwback to an earlier Suburban design.

thnx tom.....
I will keep what I have

Sure the HHR was a throwback to the 1948 Suburban - GM said so. :) It's just a 3/4 scale model is all. :lalala:

Here are some pics I posted up on ScionLife 08-16-05 when we last discussed that. :P

http://tijil.org/sub_hhr01.jpg

http://tijil.org/sub_hhr02.jpg

http://tijil.org/sub_hhr03.jpg

Tom http://tijil.org/tom_icon.gif

Thanks Tomas--I was pretty sure it was a throwback to a Suburban.............

So the automatic xb 1g weighs 2395 lbs? Is that a standard manual tranny? The new xb 2g weight is for the automatic, which should be heavier due to the big sync auto tranny (lots of extra pieces for this type of auto).

Everyone thinks the 200X Toyota Celica is a small car... well it is longer than the new 2008 xB!

200X Celica:

length (inches): 170.5
width (inches): 68.3
height (inches): 51.4
wheelbase (inches): 102.4

2008 xB:

length (inches): 167.3
width (inches): 69.3
height (inches): 62.6
wheelbase (inches): 102.4

Everyone thinks the 200X Toyota Celica is a small car... well it is longer than the new 2008 xB!

200X Celica:

length (inches): 170.5
width (inches): 68.3
height (inches): 51.4
wheelbase (inches): 102.4

2008 xB:

length (inches): 167.3
width (inches): 69.3
height (inches): 62.6
wheelbase (inches): 102.4

oh man facts? Tomas will just ignore those and go on with ramblings about the xB2 just being a tC station wagon blah blah...

reminds me of a man in power in the white house...

FACTS who needs those?

-wC

Tell ya what, WheelSee, attack the information instead of the person and we'll ALL be a lot happier (http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15164), OK?

Sedans and vans have always had a disparity in perception of size. For example, the old VW beetle and the VW bus were the same length, but people always felt the bus was longer because of its shape.

Since the Celica and newgen xB both have a 102.4 inch wheelbase, does that mean the xB is really a Celica station wagon? :D

Yes, the original xB was shorter than all of it's competition in the US by a fair margin (and 15 inches shorter than the Celica), which is a reason it was in a class of one.

The nextgen xB is right up there with the PT and HHR, and now going head-to-head with them in body and engine size, but with a newer design, nicer body style, lower price, and Toyota quality. As I've said repeatedly, the xB2 should sell extremely well.

(The xB2 isn't competing with the Celica, it is a sub-compact van/station wagon competing with other vehicles the same size and shape, and it looks a lot like a bunch of larger vans and SUVs, just smaller (http://tijil.org/xB2_chevy01.gif).)

Tom

Tell ya what, WheelSee, attack the information instead of the person and we'll ALL be a lot happier (http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15164), OK?

Sedans and vans have always had a disparity in perception of size. For example, the old VW beetle and the VW bus were the same length, but people always felt the bus was longer because of its shape.

Since the Celica and newgen xB both have a 102.4 inch wheelbase, dhttp://www.scionlife.com/forums/posting.php?mode=quote&p=2309525
ScionLife Post a replyoes that mean the xB is really a Celica station wagon? :D

Yes, the original xB was shorter than all of it's competition in the US by a fair margin (and 15 inches shorter than the Celica), which is a reason it was in a class of one.

The nextgen xB is right up there with the PT and HHR, and now going head-to-head with them in body and engine size, but with a newer design, nicer body style, lower price, and Toyota quality. As I've said repeatedly, the xB2 should sell extremely well.

(The xB2 isn't competing with the Celica, it is a sub-compact van/station wagon competing with other vehicles the same size and shape, and it looks a lot like a bunch of larger vans and SUVs, just smaller (http://tijil.org/xB2_chevy01.gif).)

Tom

Tomas,

I never attacked you...I just said you were not accepting of the information that has been given...

the picture you linked to is inaccurate as the chevy venture is 6 inches taller and 19 inches longer there ya go I attacked the facts!

-wC

Tell ya what, WheelSee, attack the information instead of the person and we'll ALL be a lot happier (http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15164), OK?

Sedans and vans have always had a disparity in perception of size. For example, the old VW beetle and the VW bus were the same length, but people always felt the bus was longer because of its shape.

Since the Celica and newgen xB both have a 102.4 inch wheelbase, dhttp://www.scionlife.com/forums/posting.php?mode=quote&p=2309525
ScionLife Post a replyoes that mean the xB is really a Celica station wagon? :D

Yes, the original xB was shorter than all of it's competition in the US by a fair margin (and 15 inches shorter than the Celica), which is a reason it was in a class of one.

The nextgen xB is right up there with the PT and HHR, and now going head-to-head with them in body and engine size, but with a newer design, nicer body style, lower price, and Toyota quality. As I've said repeatedly, the xB2 should sell extremely well.

(The xB2 isn't competing with the Celica, it is a sub-compact van/station wagon competing with other vehicles the same size and shape, and it looks a lot like a bunch of larger vans and SUVs, just smaller (http://tijil.org/xB2_chevy01.gif).)

Tom

Tomas,

I never attacked you...I just said you were not accepting of the information that has been given...

the picture you linked to is inaccurate as the chevy venture is 6 inches taller and 19 inches longer there ya go I attacked the facts!

-wC


Not that Tomas needs defending, but you're bugging me because he is probably the fairest and "thinkingest" person here.

This looks like a personal attack to me.
Everyone thinks the 200X Toyota Celica is a small car... well it is longer than the new 2008 xB!

200X Celica:

length (inches): 170.5
width (inches): 68.3
height (inches): 51.4
wheelbase (inches): 102.4

2008 xB:

length (inches): 167.3
width (inches): 69.3
height (inches): 62.6
wheelbase (inches): 102.4

oh man facts? Tomas will just ignore those and go on with ramblings about the xB2 just being a tC station wagon blah blah...

reminds me of a man in power in the white house...

FACTS who needs those?

-wC

and he was comparing shape, not size. read his post again, especially the last 2 words

i can understand if it didn't look at all the like the 1st gen bB and xB but the car still looks like a box only slighty larger. its like asking toyota not to name the 07 camry a camry because it looks nothing like the previous. if you want to talk loyal how about avalon and camry buyers who has a bigger return rate than any other owner. we might as well not call the avalon an avalon cause it looks nothing like the 1st and 2nd gen.

now if they named the xD an xB i'd have issues but the B2 still looks like a box.

^^^ is this even a point to make any longer. You can lead a horse to water ....

I think we all know who hates the new B .. those who kinda like it and those like myself that cant wait to get my hands on it.

^^^ is this even a point to make any longer. You can lead a horse to water ....

I think we all know who hates the new B .. those who kinda like it and those like myself that cant wait to get my hands on it.

I agree I don't care that people have opinions but when people go onto threads and post the same thing over and over again and link to other threads that say the same thing over and over again it gets annoying!

-wC

wow, i never realized the new xb was so close to the pt cruiser
that sucks so bad
and its crazy freaking heavy. its going to cost a lot more with the 2.4 and get crappy mileage

but really, the forums will just have a 2nd gen xb thing thats totally seperate

and he was comparing shape, not size. read his post again, especially the last 2 words

really?

(The xB2 isn't competing with the Celica, it is a sub-compact van/station wagon competing with other vehicles the same size and shape, and it looks a lot like a bunch of larger vans and SUVs, just smaller (http://tijil.org/xB2_chevy01.gif).)

Tom

-wC

Break it into two sentences.

1. ... it is a sub-compact van/station wagon competing with other vehicles the same size and shape.

2. it looks a lot like a bunch of larger vans and SUVs, just smaller

wow, i never realized the new xb was so close to the pt cruiser
that sucks so bad
and its crazy freaking heavy. its going to cost a lot more with the 2.4 and get crappy mileage

but really, the forums will just have a 2nd gen xb thing thats totally seperate
First of all, ladies stop bickering.

and in response to the quote. Define "cost alot more". I can tell you right now that the xB2 will cost less than 16K in a 5spd. Its funny how classic box owners will call anything bigger "crazy freaking heavy" and anything with less mpg "crappy mileage". The truth is the original box was perfect for Japan. They are small and lightweight like the people. They also didn't need big engines to get around the city streets. This is America. People are bigger, taller and so are the cars. The cars are a reflection of the people.

wow, i never realized the new xb was so close to the pt cruiser
that sucks so bad
and its crazy freaking heavy. its going to cost a lot more with the 2.4 and get crappy mileage

but really, the forums will just have a 2nd gen xb thing thats totally seperate
First of all, ladies stop bickering.

and in response to the quote. Define "cost alot more". I can tell you right now that the xB2 will cost less than 16K in a 5spd. Its funny how classic box owners will call anything bigger "crazy freaking heavy" and anything with less mpg "crappy mileage". The truth is the original box was perfect for Japan. They are small and lightweight like the people. They also didn't need big engines to get around the city streets. This is America. People are bigger, taller and so are the cars. The cars are a reflection of the people.

but tiny little asian cars are so cool and different. I guess if the Scion plan is to sell a lot of cars they did OK with their changes, but I thought the idea was to sell cars with relatively small production runs. They probably could have sold a lot more than the XX,000 xB's if they would have made them.

Umm lets not forget that in our land Big Is King! Try matching up a true Asian car againt lets say .. a H2. Hows about a new Tahoe that wieghs close to 2 tons. Dont even get me started on the Big Rig and the Trialers that we use here in the states. Micro cars dont stand a chance ... but they are cute.

... This is America. People are bigger...

That's a whole other story right there...

Sad but true. As Americans keep supersizing their fries, Scion has no choice but to "Americanize" their small cars.

-THE DON

I don't know my fat a$$ fits in the xb just fine.

I don't know my fat a$$ fits in the xb just fine.

:rofl:

:clap:

-THE DON

If us Americans could be more like Kobayashi and eat pounds of food at a time and then poop it all out, we too could be small like the japanese and be able to drive tiny microcars. Unfortunately we live in a world where "super-size" and dollar-menu" are household names. Now you can get 6 mcnuggets for $1 instead of 4. When will the madness end??

It is true the new Xb is longer and wider, however it is also true the height is less, I hope there is NOT less head room!

xB 64.6
xB2 63




This is truly one of the things I like about my 1st Gen B.

Those who have seen the car and actually sat in it go along with what is in print, that the seat brackets do not sit as high as the first gen. Theres your inch and a half.

I like the way the seats in my xb sit. I just don't care for the new xb's exterior, I do like some of the interior. The seats don't look as comfortable.

I am not trying to "hate" on anyone, but I am trying to find a way to seperate my xB from the new models that will be emerging. I would really like to get an emlem that reads "Classic" and place it under my xB emblem on my rear hatch. I haven't found one that I thought was nice enough, but I do have someone in mind to contact to try to get this done. I welcome anyone who buys a 2008+ xB, but I will not be purchasing one.

It is true the new Xb is longer and wider, however it is also true the height is less, I hope there is NOT less head room!

xB 64.6
xB2 63




This is truly one of the things I like about my 1st Gen B.
I doubt there would be less headroom. They probably dropped the seats a bit to compensate. They wanted to give more of a lounge like seating position as opposed to the upright seating of the classic box. I think it will be much more comfortable.

I would really like to get an emlem that reads "Classic" and place it under my xB emblem on my rear hatch. I do have someone in mind to contact to try to get this done.
Yes, I am quoting myself. Just to let everyone know I have contacted the person I had in mind, EZ-BAKED, and he is all for it. He is going to be working on the design.

xBeast, there's a guy already looking into design and manufacture of a "Classic" emblem for our boxes! Take a look here:

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2295740#2295740

http://www.scionlife.com/gallery/personal/39019_2.jpg

I think he has the right idea, and hope there is enough interest to keep it going. :)

Tom

I like it, but why red?

I'd like something more like "xB, there's only one" but not in a Jeep way. LOL Or an emblem that says ORIGINAL xB maybe?

xBeast, there's a guy already looking into design and manufacture of a "Classic" emblem for our boxes! Take a look here:

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2295740#2295740

http://www.scionlife.com/gallery/personal/39019_2.jpg

I think he has the right idea, and hope there is enough interest to keep it going. :)

Tom

damn that looks like, whoda thought one comment would take off

The new camera looks different compared to last years model and yet the name has not changed. Look at every car that has evolved with the same name?

The new camera looks different compared to last years model and yet the name has not changed. Look at every car that has evolved with the same name?That's true but doesn't apply to the xB because Scion said from the beginning that all the models were gonna run for 3 years then be replaced with something completely different including the names. So what happened to that??? Guess they lied to us? :lalala:

With the intro of these new scion models this site may never be the same. I still want Toyota to drop the idea of calling the new "xB" an xB. There is already an xB and there will never be another. Yes i know we call the US version of the bB and xB but at least the 1st gen xB maintained that classic body style. This new car called an xB is i'm sure a sweet car but as far as i'm concerned calling it an xB is as bad as calling it a bB. The new bB looks nothing like the old gens either but it also doesn't look like the new xB. If we are to have a new xB it should look like the new bB. I believe that this fiasco goes against what we are doing here at scionlife. This is just an oppinion of course but i have to ask....how is this going to change the look and funtion of scionlife? It's hard enough trying to explain the difference between 1st and 2nd gen bBs and between bBs and xBs. If they would've just called it something else (xE, xF, xG, sEx) anything but xB i wouldn't be going on this rant. How shallow and fickle does Toyota think we are. Just because some people had issues with our xBs doesn't mean they have to reinvent the wheel and call it a box. Do you get me? Scionlife should not change because we are the enthusiasts not the idiot executive who decided to name this new car an xB. That person has no idea the loyalty some of us have to this car. Make fun of me if you want but then ask yourself "why am i driving an xB in the first place?" I bought one because it was something completely different from the mainstream American mindset. Now Toyota wants to throw that whole concept out and appeal to everyone who insulted your xB. I'm just one guy and i don't know how to make Toyota understand or alot of you most likely but i don't want this new car too be called an xB if for nothing else but the integrity of this community.

If they did change the name for all new models, there would not be 1st 2nd or 3rd gen rx-7's. which were all rx-7's and all badass in their own right. same with corrolas, camaros, almost every car now is renamed with new body and engine style.

its just car evolution, just like neanderthals are still humanoids, we are humanoids too.

That's true but doesn't apply to the xB because Scion said from the beginning that all the models were gonna run for 3 years then be replaced with something completely different including the names.

I've heard this repeated a lot, and I'm wondering if anyone can point to a source where this was officially published, as in a Scion press release or something. Because the more I think about it, the more I have trouble imagining any company actually officially committing itself to such a relatively trivial point.

R

I know there was but don't remember exactly where they wrote/said it. Maybe Thomas could help us with this one. I'm gonna PM him.

nothing about changing the name...

The Scion team also wrangled a promise that they would get all-new vehicles every four years -- not just cars with subtle changes as annual upgrades.

http://www.fastcompany.com/online/72/smartcompany.html


-wC