Based on the tC I think we can get a good idea of what gas mileage will be on the xB2.
tC: Curb Weight: 2937 lbs, mpg: 23-30
xB2: Curb Weight: 3100 lbs

The xB2 weighs 163 lbs more than the tC. This site for Gov gas tips (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/driveHabits.shtml) says an increase of 100 lbs equates to a 2% drop in gas mileage. This means the xB2 will have 3.26% less mpg than the tC based on weight. Take another couple % for the less aerodynamic shape. Say a total of 6% less mpg.

This gives the xB2 an MPG range of 21.62-28.8

That is an average 26.5% lower mpg compared to the xB1

Kinda sucks!

Add in some other elements. The xB2 will have a higher drag both from cd and from frontal area. Wheels are smaller (16's vs tC's 17's) so that might help.....until the mods start, and big wheels are something all the boys seem to like.

I bought my box because available hybrids didn't meet my needs: Civic too small, Prius too grandfatherly, and Escape too expensive. I am anticippating getting 35-40 mpg easily in my box w/ a few cheap mods and watching my pedal action. No xB2 will ever get there.

So I agree - sucks. Glad I have the 2006.5

I already guessed the shape would reduce mpg by an additional 2.74% but it may be more.

I already guessed the shape would reduce mpg by an additional 2.74% but it may be more.
not to sound like an a$$, but where the hell did you get 2.74%?

I think the xB2 will not be geared as aggressively as the tC, to help the mileage. That's why the tC is rated at 161 hp and the new xB is rated at 158 hp.

It'll get the same mileage as the tC if not slightly better.

-THE DON

I already guessed the shape would reduce mpg by an additional 2.74% but it may be more.
not to sound like an a$$, but where the hell did you get 2.74%?

3.26 + 2.74 = 6 just a made up number for demonstration. Its likely the shape will have a greater effect on mileage. Look at the hwy miles for the xA and xB1 there is a 4 mpg difference.

I think the xB2 will not be geared as aggressively as the tC, to help the mileage.

Using gears tall enough to recover the lost mpg may really affect the performance relative to the tC. But still should be much be better than the xB1.

I already guessed the shape would reduce mpg by an additional 2.74% but it may be more.
not to sound like an a$$, but where the hell did you get 2.74%?

3.26 + 2.74 = 6 just a made up number for demonstration. Its likely the shape will have a greater effect on mileage. Look at the hwy miles for the xA and xB1 there is a 4 mpg difference.

Gotcha, I read, and thought... huh? the reread, and reread thinking I missed something. LOL :loser: confusion ensued, not really that hard though LOL

I read somewhere that it was going to get 31 MPG. My 05 xB has never gotten much more than 34 MPG. I have an auto with the perrin pulley and YDR intake. I hope the gas tank is bigger, if I can get 400 miles on a tank then I only have to fuel up once a week and I can buy my gas at the cheapest station.

The new xb will probably have a more advanced up-to-date ECU and ECT.

In actuality, the EPA esitmates are going down further than you think. 2008 will bring about brand new system for estimating milage that is supposed to be more reflective of the real world numbers, so it will even be further than that.

Can't be worse than the RAV? Will they share the same engine?

Either way, there is more room in the new b + it will cost a lot less

Can't be worse than the RAV? Will they share the same engine?

Either way, there is more room in the new b + it will cost a lot less

if it's the same on as the tC yes. But don't forget that the 2.4L that toyota has, was (and is) very versitile as shown. Ranging from the tacoma, to the tC, to the camry to the luxus (god I don't remember the model number of it) as far as gas milage it's something that I'm concerned about, but if it get's anything like my friends tacoma (he drives like an a$$ and gets mid 20s) I'm not gonna be worried at all

FYI, Lexus doesn't use the 2.4. The IS250 has a 2.5L V6 with 204hp.

But it is indeed an extremely versatile engine. I'm sure they've tuned it for more efficiency than performance.

... I am anticippating getting 35-40 mpg easily in my box w/ a few cheap mods and watching my pedal action. No xB2 will ever get there...
I don't have any mods on my 2006 manual xB, and pedal action alone got my total average for the first 8,000 miles = 35 mpg.
The best tank was 42 mpg holding 60 mpg on an Interstate trip.
The next best two tanks were 37 mpg, holding 55 mph on rural 2 lane roads.
Presently in frigid winter driving doing short urban errands the mileage has dropped to 30. Also that may be because now I know what the car is capable of, I don't care about mpg so much any more, and drive more vigorously.

You guys may not think that 10MPG less from the previous xB is a big deal now, just wait until gas prices sky rocket again. That 10MPG less that doesnt seem like a big deal now on paper will slap you in the face with a big dose of reality, even more for those who are used to the classic xB gas habits. That is, if any classic xB owners are even getting this new abomination.

To me, anything that gets below 30MPG in the city is unacceptable, especially these days when were supposed to be becoming more energy efficient & ESPECIALLY from a company like Toyota who is supposed to be setting the bar high, not moving backwards.

Stupid decision for a few more horses if you ask me.

To me, anything that gets below 30MPG in the city is unacceptable, especially these days when were supposed to be becoming more energy efficient & ESPECIALLY from a company like Toyota who is supposed to be setting the bar high, not moving backwards.

Stupid decision for a few more horses if you ask me.

Makes sense though if they are trying to push the Yaris which will be cheaper than the xB2.

You guys may not think that 10MPG less from the previous xB is a big deal now, just wait until gas prices sky rocket again. That 10MPG less that doesnt seem like a big deal now on paper will slap you in the face with a big dose of reality, even more for those who are used to the classic xB gas habits. That is, if any classic xB owners are even getting this new abomination.

To me, anything that gets below 30MPG in the city is unacceptable, especially these days when were supposed to be becoming more energy efficient & ESPECIALLY from a company like Toyota who is supposed to be setting the bar high, not moving backwards.

Stupid decision for a few more horses if you ask me.

Not sure where you see a 10 mpg drop. In my mixed driving I average 28-31 in my xB, I am expecting around 24-26 out of the new one.


Until the numbers are posted it is pure speculation.


Here is a little quick math.... 2 examples

Say you are one of the VERY few who get 35mpg out of your current xB and the new one does 20 mpg, say gas goes to the $5 a gallon range the alarmists are saying it will. Also lets say you drive 18k miles a year (the national average is around 12k).


18000/35mpg = Around 515 gallons, at $5 a gallon this is around $2600 a year for fuel costs, around 215 a month. That is the current xB
18000/20mpg = 900 gallons, at $5 a gallon that works out to $4500, or $360 a month.
A difference of $175 a month. This is absolute worst case scenario.


Lets now look at a more realistic scenario. Current xB = 30 mpg, New xB = 25 mpg, 12000 miles per year, back to $3 a gallon (currently 2.30 where I live)

12000/30 = 400 gallons x $3 per gallon = $1200 per year, $100 per month - Current xB
12000/25 = 480 gallons x $3 per gallon = $1440 per year, $120 per month - 2008 xB.


For $20 a month is it really worth all the complaints?

I am willing to spend $20 a month more for a bigger cargo area, more power, and more shoulder room.


As far as my estimate on mileage @ 25, my wifes AWD element with 2.4L 4 cyl gets 23 mpg average, it is taller, heavier, has the AWD (which will hurt mileage some) and a similar aerodynamic profile to the new xB. I can't forsee the new xB being any worse, and will likely be a little better.

A heavy car with a bigger engine pays the highest mileage penalty in stop-and-go driving.

This is why the xB1 (and similarly lightweight vehicles) can consistently get MPG in the high 20s even in city driving.

I fully expect the xB2 to come very close to the xB1 when it can drive at a steady 60mph and never touch the brakes. There are a lot of cars that can equal or better the xB1's highway mileage, some of them considerably larger and heavier and more powerful.

I will be surprised, however, if the xB2 can get even as much as 20MPG in strictly city driving, no matter what its EPA rating may say. No other car in its size and weight class can do so, and the xB2 represents nothing new in automotive technology.

The xB2 may be a great car, but it's no longer a "city car." And that sucks, because Toyota is giving up a market they owned, and could have continued to dominate. And it sucks because there's a real market for such a car, that's now going to be unserved.

R

Toyota is not giving it up, there is still the yaris to play the role of city car.


I try not to use EPA estimates, as they will be very misleading on the 08 models due to the changes in the way they calculate, check out www.yourmileagemayvary.com for the details.


I always talk real world mileage.

When I had a 7 mile commute that was all interstate, I averaged 25-26 mpg.

Now that I have a 25 mile commute that is all 2 lane highway I average 28-30 mpg.


The problem with the xB1 is that as you go past 60 mileage plummets.

With the bigger engine the xB2 may be able to be geared a bit better, so it is not turning 3000 rpm @ 60...


You are right though, the xB2 is more likely to have lower city mileage, if you are a pure city car, the xB1 is likely the better choice. Since it will no longer be available, the yaris, or xD may be where you will have to turn within the toyota family.


You mention the xB2 represents nothing new in automotive technology.... neither did the xB1!

You mention the xB2 represents nothing new in automotive technology.... neither did the xB1!

Yup. That's one reason I bought one - proven tech=reliability.

My point is simply that if you look at real-world MPG tests, such as those in Consumer Reports, you won't find a car in the xB2's class that does better than the high teens in the city-driving test, and there's no reason tho believe the xB2 incorporates any particular magic that would make it do better.

As for the Yaris and other minis, none of them offer the remarkable combination of interior space (including rear-seat room and cubic capacity), exterior compactness, panoramic situational awareness, easy ingress/egress, and efficiancy that the xB1 did. It's *all* of these characteristics that make a superior city car, which the xB1 is and the Yaris (or the xD) aren't. They may be excellent cars, and they may *now* be top choices for city dwellers, but the xB was the king. And the King is... (no, I just can't go there).

R

Will having light weight aluminum rims help enough to justifie the cost?

I ride bike and rotational wieght is key to increasing avg speed and distance.

Has anyone done a b4 and after comparison on the current xB?

Well, my opinion is if you were ready to release the xb, with kits available, why would the mpg not be ready regardless of what is said-makes you really think about it-even though this happens alot. Knowing Scion cares about its customers I would of thought this would be ready when they announced the specs and stuff for the new xb. Of course the xd mpg is easy to figure.

The magazine handed out at the auto show had spots for MPG and the disclaimer of how your mileage may vary, etc. However the actual numbers said NA/NA.

This makes me think that they pulled it at the last minute. May be due to the new guidelines the government is putting in place. If they are not finalized and implemented then they cannot release mileage, since there is no point in rating it the old way (may even be against the rules)

You guys may not think that 10MPG less from the previous xB is a big deal now, just wait until gas prices sky rocket again. That 10MPG less that doesnt seem like a big deal now on paper will slap you in the face with a big dose of reality, even more for those who are used to the classic xB gas habits. That is, if any classic xB owners are even getting this new abomination.

To me, anything that gets below 30MPG in the city is unacceptable, especially these days when were supposed to be becoming more energy efficient & ESPECIALLY from a company like Toyota who is supposed to be setting the bar high, not moving backwards.

Stupid decision for a few more horses if you ask me.

Not sure where you see a 10 mpg drop. In my mixed driving I average 28-31 in my xB, I am expecting around 24-26 out of the new one.

Its not rocket science. The classic xB got 31 mpg in the city. The tC currently gets 23 mpg city. The new xB has the same engine as the tC & its bigger, heavier & less aerodynamic. So, expect it to be in the low 20s for city driving. Theres no new technology here, so you can pretty much bet thats what its gonna be.

Highway mpg usually doesn't mean sh*t to most people, but expect Scion to advertise those numbers a lot more than city mpg so it doesnt seem that much different from the classic box. Most auto companies love to taught the highway mpg in their ads, but we all know better. Everyday city driving is where its at for most people & where it really counts.

Well if you count EPA city mileage I expect it will be under 23, but then again so will the 2008 tC due to new ratings regulations.


I bet 1 chocolate chip cookie that the xB2 gets better city mileage than the 2008 tC

Mabey they'll put a five speed automatic in it. The camry is rated 24-34, They have a 5-speed. I here people say they get 30mpg in there Camrys. :pray:

I read somewhere that it was going to get 31 MPG. My 05 xB has never gotten much more than 34 MPG. I have an auto with the perrin pulley and YDR intake. I hope the gas tank is bigger, if I can get 400 miles on a tank then I only have to fuel up once a week and I can buy my gas at the cheapest station.

Mine used to get 30-33. Now it is never over 28.

I bouguht XB last December for its five door small engine 1.5 liter with a resonable price. Now, there is no small engine five door avaialble, best we can do is 1.8 liter XD. I hope Toyota offer us little engined (good MPG) five door cars in US soon, again.

Anyone have any real world stats on aluminum rims vs. steel b4 and after?

If not I'll give it a go when I get the new b

If I had a bunch of kids in the back, then perhaps I'd go with the B2, since it has the whole airbag thing. But for me, I made great milage with my auto B1, and hopefully even better with my new manual B1, and I'm shooting for stardom once I get my header and pulley installed as well.