I was looking at these (http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1182)
but there a little pricy anybody got any good thoughts on some midbass 6.5" components for around 150 or less

http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=49

What mid bass subs were you talking about ??

I have a set of rainbow slc and their midbass 6.5 driver is sweet, clean clear bass with zero distortion, from 40 watts to 120 watts, just seal your door when you put it in ( sound deadening of course)

click on the word these in my first post

Here's a few of my favorite $150 component sets:

http://ozaudio.com/pages/V650S3.html

http://www.arcaudio.com/arc-05/speakers/kar_265.htm

Both will provide VERY good overall sound quality...with a healthy dose of midbass. Some tips to help them perform to their potential:

* 1st Install Dynamat (or similar) product. There's no such thing as "overkill" in this department. Put a layer on the outer door metal (reverse side of exterior), and a layer on the surface the speaker's mounted to. Seal the door as well as you can. I've added some Owens Corning "Acoustic Blanket". It's essentially fiberglass insulation - the same stuff they put in movie theaters to keep the sound from one theater isolated from the next. You can improvise, and use carpet padding or similar. Continue throughout the rest of the cabin - floors/rear quarter panels/hatch - the tC's kinda noisy. This will make a HUGE difference!

* Install the midbass driver's on the biggest baffles you can fit in the door. I think you can get ~1.5" thick around the 6.5" opening in the door, and 3/4" thick outside of that - to keep the interior door panel's clearance. The more mass you have around the driver, the more energy can be transfered into sound (re: midbass). It's simple physics - the more stable the mounting surface, the better. Objects at rest...objects in motion...and all that ;-)

* Properly amplify your speakers. Don't over-power them with 1.21 Jigga-watts, and certainly don't under power them off the Scion CD player's internal amplifier. Output (SPL) is LOGORITHMIC - meaning to get 3dB more output (2X as loud), will require TEN TIMES the power!!! You can see how a "modest" sized amplifier will get you the "normal" output level most people are comfortable with.

* Use your crossover wisely. I suggest starting with ~60hz "high pass" to the components (and from the sub(s)) - provided all the above have been done, and you're listening at moderate levels. The speaker's "excursion" (the distance it travels in/out) will increase FOUR TIMES with every octave you lower the frequency. For example, if it moves .25" at 80hz, it will be moving 1" for the same output at 40hz. An octave = 1/2 or double the frequency - down and up, respectively.

If you've got any questions, feel free to PM me - I'll be happy to answer any questions!

lol well thank you...and on a side note a girl who knows car audio is diffentitly(sp) a plus :rofl:

I forgot to ask the important stuff! :doh:

What kind of music do you listen to?
Who's speakers have you heard that you liked? (home audio references are OK too)
Where do you intend to install the speakers? (factory locations? kickpanels? A-pillars?)
Who's the installer, and what's his skill level?
What's the rest of the system consist of (what CD player, amps, subs, etc.)?
What tuning capabilities does the system have, and what's the "tuner's" skill level? (this may be a bit advanced, but I can help with this area too...)

Cheers,
Robyn

ptsh...who cares about important stuf.LOL

I listen to a lot of metal, rock, rap, hip hop, techno once in a blue moon
I havent really ever heard a good set of components or components period but i do know what sound should sound like to my ear
I plan to install in factory locations unless theres somewhere better
Installer is me and maybe my dad...my skill level is w/e it counts for im an electrician and have wired systems together before. My dad can fix any car audio problems concerning wiring etc.
So far the system is a PG rsd12d powered by a PG xenon 600.1. HU im looking around but it will be in the direction of a Double din nav and dvd..etc etc dont have an amp yet to power speakers...all wiring is done. 4guage from battery to amp. 10 or 8 guage speaker wire maybe 12.ill have to check
tuning...im still trying to figure that out..lol so in short none.
PS nothing is installed yet..and in near future the car will be RAAmatted

EXCELLENT! Let's push SOUND QUALITY a bit further...

If we think about home audio, we have the ability to sit at an equal distance between the two main speakers. If we close our eyes, it's easier to get an idea of what's happening with the "sound stage" - what I mean is we can clearly identify what's LEFT, CENTER, RIGHT, and height/width/depth within the recording. For instance, the vocalist should sound dead center. In a car, we're sitting off center, and thus we have PATH LENGTH DIFFERENCES (distance between the left speaker and your head is different from the right speaker). This kills the "sound stage". Try closing your eyes and listening for the vocalist to be in the center of your dash. I'll bet you have a hard time pointing to a specific point.

A simple test I show people is to have them close their eyes, and I'll snap my fingers. I'll ask them to point to my hand. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO THIS IN A CAR WITH MUSIC!!!

Since you mentioned "unless there's somewhere better", I submit the idea of installing your speakers in the kick panels. This will decrease the path length differences, and start to give you a better sound stage. Here are mine:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/csuflyboy/DSC01172.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/csuflyboy/DSC01171.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/csuflyboy/DSC01164.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/csuflyboy/DSC01163.jpg

You mentioned you and your dad are electricians, so extending the wires ~6" and cutting out the plastic phenolic and using butt connectors won't be a problem, right? :nails: Trust me, it's well worth the added effort!

I'll try to make a more elaborate system tuning post later...

no thats noob stuff to hear..lol i have about 10k feet of wire in my garage waiting to be pulled and wired....ohh oodles of fun, then again it doesnt mean im good, but i do know what im doing and know what you mean. anyways did u make those custom kicks and what speakers would i put there? lol

Edit: oh isnt there a fuse box or something behind the driver side kick panels already... i know there is something for the power windows because i kicked something down there when they were off..and my windows and locks stopped working lol...i got it fixed though :relief:

Yes, Matt and I made those kickpanels out of 1.5" (2 X 3/4') MDF. There's no fuses behind the kickpanels, only wires that can be extended and moved out away from the metal. This will let you cut the light gauge metal and drop in the speakers.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/csuflyboy/DSC01130.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/csuflyboy/DSC01129.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/csuflyboy/DSC01110.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/csuflyboy/DSC01108.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/csuflyboy/DSC01132.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/csuflyboy/DSC01131.jpg

Here was the 1st kickpanels we built - but never used:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/csuflyboy/DSC01109.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/csuflyboy/DSC01111.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/csuflyboy/DSC01113.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/csuflyboy/DSC01112.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/csuflyboy/DSC01114.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/csuflyboy/DSC01115.jpg

LOL is that carboard..good way to you your resources

The cardboard is to shape the baffle...then trace it to MDF, and wrap in fleece and apply resin.

The cardboard is to shape the baffle...then trace it to MDF, and wrap in fleece and apply resin.
Are those two different version of KPs? The ones shown in the first pics don't look like they need the fiberglass backing, that they're sealed against the metal of the KP. So what's the fiberglass work for?

Regardless, nice job on the KP's, and it sure is nice to see someone else here trying to convince people to equalize the path lengths. :D

Hi Nodeste-
Yes, they're two different kickpanels. The 1st build of the kicks (fiberglass) were scrapped due to their large size once we realized we could fit the baffle and speakers flat against the kickpanel metal. The car currently has the 1.5" MDF baffles sealed to the kickpanel and open/vented to the frame/quarter-panel area.

Similar path lengths are the key! :D

Just one more question on the KPs if you don't mind...wondering why you didn't angle the baffles a bit upward and inward, as is usual practice. Seems like it'd improve your system even more, by having the closest speaker slightly more on-axis. Maybe that 2nd set isn't your final version?

Now that I've seen your KPs in the tC, it's really motivating me to do the same, as I've done for a couple of my other vehicles in the past.

Well, to contradict what may be the typical prediction, the speakers SOUND AWESOME totally off axis. Not totally weird, considering the shape of the dash and the different car environment; I don't think they can be beat just the way they are. I'm not planning on changing the set up anytime soon. I love it that much.

It's easy to control imaging because there is no "beaming" created by either speaker, as you would if they were further on axis. Example: if the male vocals pull to the left of center, decrease that frequency a few dB on the left channel, and they should be restored to center. AKA: Frequency steering.

Please note that it's best to use smooth, wide dispersion tweeters if you are going to put them in the kick panels. Narrow dispersion will not create that super high sound stage.

^ok, I'll be sure to try the KPs flat like yours, and compare that to various angles when I get around to doing mine. I've never made them flat before, but since you like them so much, I'll have to check it out.

I hear ya on the tweeters, no problem here since I'm planning on adding one of my sets of HLCDs, provided the mounting doesn't pose too much of an issue.

HLCDs?!? I hope they're from Image Dynamics! www.imagedynamicsusa.com You should contact my friend Pete aka "retrodrive" on here: http://www.scionlife.com/profile/retrodrive

Pete's using a Premier DEX-P9 and DEQ-P9 with some TRU Technology amps. He's got ID's CD2-neo full body horns with their new XS series midbass drivers in the doors with a single IDMax 12" in the rear corner.

I heard it at CES - and was easily one of my favorite SQ cars at the show. The symmetrical dash/interior of the tC lends itself favorably to use horns.

how about the crystal sscs 6.5" comps

thems hairy arms for a girl. I got some infinity perfects.. absolutely no mid bass..

HLCDs?!? I hope they're from Image Dynamics!
No, I have an original set of USD/Speakerworks hand-laid fiberglass models, which were made back in '91, before they went to their "roto-mount" design. I've also built my own custom prototypes, with a flare and expansion rate all my own. I also use different compression drivers, depending on which amps I'm using and the midbass configuration..

I'm familiar with the Image Dynamics products, but can't justify spending more when I already have so much equipment. All my stuff is from the late '80's to mid 90's, as I've been at this a long time, having done my first install back in '77.

VERY COOL! :D No doubt horns are amazing when properly designed and tuned...We were lucky enough to meet Bruce Edgar at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest a few years ago. Matt and I feel the Avant Garde Duos are about as good as it gets.

What's the rest of your system look like?

Matt used to have a pair of ID CD2 full body horns powered by a 6 watt, class A all tube amp from TRU Technology. Sadly, the car was sold shortly after he had it dialed in. It was sweet though! The rest of it was a Denon CD player, Image Dynamics signal processors, Dynaudio mids and a Velodyne subwoofer.

What's the rest of your system look like?

Right now I still consider it a work in progress, as I'm still deciding what I ultimately want to do with it. For the moment I've only done a minor upgrade of the stock system;

Stock HU to Scosche SLC4 LOC, using twisted-pair RCAs to the hatch
Audio Control EPICenter (a fun device to play with the bass)
Sony XEC-500 Crossover (80Hz 2nd order Bessel HP, 80Hz 3rd order Chebechev LP)
Audio Control ESP-2 (soundstaging/imaging processor)
Sony XM-2022 Amp powering stock front door speakers but will upgrade soon)
Rockford 2600x Series 1 Amp powering Bostom Acoustics Rally Series RS104 in a .75' sealed & stuffed 3/4" MDF enclosure.

I took some pics, so you can see some of it using these links;

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w66/nodsetse/10x7_rack.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w66/nodsetse/10x7_open.jpg

One of the amps shown decided to fry last weekend, and was replaced with the old Sony. Also not shown is the crossover, which was added to the right corner of the rack. By the way, this isn't intended to be for competition, I just wanted something for myself that didn't consume much/any hatch space.

Once I get the system completed (may take a while, as I work slow) with the Rockford RFA-64 midbass in the doors or KPs and the underdash HLCDs (considering tweeters for the A-pillars too, but only playing >10kHz), I'll make a thread and post lots of pics.

And in case you're wondering where the rest of the capacitor is, that's just a quarter farad. :wink: