How is that the Scion salesman at my dealership knows less about current and upcoming scion vehicles than I do?

I was there trying to get my money's worth out of the service package I bought (stupid) when one of the scion salesmen recognized me and said hey. He asked me if I had seen the "Special Edition tC" yet. I said "Special Edition? You mean the new Release Series?"

He seemed to have no idea what I was talking about, and being a young guy, all he could tell me about was it's "awesome body kit" (which sucks, imo) and then proceeded to talk about the "awesome euro taillights" which he first called "Evo taillights" and then corrected himself. He also seemed to be thrilled with the factory sub and where it's located, and was possibly under the impression that this was the only car with the option of getting the sub. When I told him the only things I liked about the car were the grille and the headlights, he seemed confused. He then made sure I was aware of the "suede" multicolored interior. When I told him it was ugly, he asked me to "check out" the shifter. I gave up. On the way back inside, we small talked. He couldn't tell the difference between the stock tc headlights and the RS3 headlights. He knew nothing about the TRD supercharger other than...it exists. He continued calling the RS3 the "Special Edition tC". I told him I had to leave. "See ya DUDE" he said.

I had a similar experience at a Mitsubishi dealership when I went there with the single purpose of test driving an Evo IX MR. Before getting in the car, I was taking note of the things I liked. Before long, he just HAD to show me the optional factory subwoofer. WHY if I'm an auto enthusiast, interested in a performance car simply because of it's performance, do I care about the optional factory subwoofer??? I told him I didn't care about it, nor would I want it. It weighs too much. I don't think he understood.

How do they get into this line of work? Is this like how people get into being police officers or in the military? Just by failing high school or college and having no marketable skills? No offense intended, really. Just joking, kind of. Don't shoot.

 

well a good amount of the customers these people see arent as informed as you and i, so these things you saw might have actually worked on them. Im guessing that to be a salesman it doesnt take more than the abilty to speak clearly and sound like you know whats going on. but to be a good salesman you actually have to know what your talking about. Ive yet to run into a salesman who was anything near the 2 you described. maybe they were desperate for salespeople where you live?

 

Most car dealership salesman are hired based solely on their ability or enthusiasm to sell. They do not necessarily have to be car guys. They only educate themselves to the point where they can talk about the cars in really general terms. They might not even understand what their orientation class teaches them about the cars they're selling. I'm guessing that you just got the less-than-knowledgable guy as the luck of the draw. Remember, he's there to increase dealer profit and that means piling as many (overpriced) dealer installed accessories into your car as he can. Dealers make very tiny margins on scions. That's why the dealer-installed accessories are more expensive.

 

Generally speaking, automotive salesfolk aren't nearly as knowledgable about the cars they sell as the "enthusiast" customers who may come looking.
They usually know at least a bit about the cars, but if someone like the average SL user comes along and starts asking very specific questions, they probably won't have a clue. It's not ideal, but it is indeed normal.
Personally, I tend to do a lot of advance research, and I can't tell you the last time I met a salesman who could tell me something about the car I was looking at that I didn't already know. In fact, most of the time, I end up teaching them a few things...

Basically, to me, the salesman is the guy who fetches the keys from the box when I want to test drive, and the guy that helps with the paperwork when I'm ready to buy.

 

I had an experience like that at a Pontiac Dealership around where I live. At the time I'd owned a Sunfire, it was modded pretty well, custom paint job which i had done myself (auto body tech/painter for 5 years... yes I'm a chick). Anyway the salesman that came out must not have seen what I pulled into the lot in.

So I'm out on the lot looking at this really nice Trans Am that was sitting there, and the salesman comes out and asks if he can help me with something. Here's about how the convo went (keep in mind even though now I love my tC and wouldn't trade it for anything, I'm still a die hard Pontiac fan... the muscle part anyway):

Salesman: Hello and welcome to ________ Pontiac, may I help you with something?

Me: Yeah, I'd really like to take a look at this TransAm you have here.

Salesman: Yeah it is nice, but I do believe it's sold... that might be just a little too much power for you to handle anyway... how about we take a look at this new Sunfire down here, it's like a mini Trans-Am and would fit you perfectly I think

Me: (thinking to myself "excuse me a$$hole?!?! TOO MUCH POWER?!?!?!) *I clear my throat and say* Sure... why don't we take a look at that Sunfire down there (with a slight bit of sarcasm in my speech)

Salesman: Alrighty, let me get a key so you can take a look inside and I'll be happy to answer any questions you have.

So at this point I'm standing outside about fuming to myself... too much power??? OHHHH I wanted to punch him. He comes back outside and I follow him to where the Sunfires were sitting. He brings me over to a 1999 Sunfire SE... which wasn't new but in really good shape. Keep in mind here I know the cars well enough that I know almost every bolt size on the car, the specs, etc.

I ask him about the hp and tq... he tells me it's 170hp and 160tq (no such Sunfire was ever produced)... he didn't even know what a J-body was... every question I asked him about the car he comes up with some BS number or information that he just pulls out his ****.

The sales manager comes out to ask how things are going... I say:

Me: Well, your salesman here came out when I arrived. I was looking at that TransAm there, he told me it "probably had too much power for me to handle" and "why don't we go down and look at these Sunfires". He must not have seen I pulled into this dealership in that modded Sunfire up there to which I'd done most of the work on myself, and have been President of a J-body car club for the past 2 1/2 years (at the time). I proceeded to ask him about hp/tq ratings, he said it was 170/160... when I know for a fact that the 1999 Sunfire SE motor only had (etc...etc...)

The manager apologized over and over again, and asked if he could assist me himself. I said I was too angry to even deal with this anymore and that maybe I'd come back another time. I did go back later on, and that salesguy had apparently been fired... I'd never seen him in there again even when I went in for service.

Not that I'm happy I might have gotten someone fired, and I know sales is a tough job... many salespeople work on comission only. But if you're going to go over BASIC questions about a car with a customer, ESPECIALLY when it's written on the darn sticker on the window, get your facts straight already sheesh. The thing that burned me the most was the comment though on how it was "too much power" for me. Excuse me sir, I'll decide what is too much power.

 

salesmen typically are.... yeah.. they don't know much.

there are other individuals called "Scion Champions" which are required to know alot more about the vehicle and work above the salesmen class... most dealerships only have one of those, which you probably might not see on a day to day basis.

however even most can be belittled in knowledge by an enthusiast.

these Champions know the vehicles pretty much for the same purpose as salesmen.... marketing... to sell the cars. I know of a few and their knowledge is very good... but the marketing side is very much different from the technical side of which i find myself to be the expert in.

a stronger understanding of the technical side has a stronger foundation to build up to memorizing "oh so cool" car features and specs that salesmen just read and get trained on to advertise to the consumer.

as always with anything... it's better to do the research yourself prior to going into a purchase. you want to be in control of the sale.... not the salesmen.

 

Fallenangel, I like that story. I wouldn't feel guilty even if you were directly responsible for getting the guy fired. He was insulting and lied to you. Funny story though; I only wish I knew half as much as you when buying a car.

 

Yea, I had a similar situation when I was getting my tC. At the first place i went there was the classic salesman who tried to sell me whatever they had out there. He told me i wouldnt get any more than 2-3k for my trade-in which was worth 5-6k, 8k private party. Didnt know ANYTHING about how they actually install most of the options at the dealer. Right before we left he even tried to sell me auto-insurance. He was also trying to convince me to buy my car solo(i had no credit at the time) and not have my mom co-sign(who has nearly perfect credit) for a better interest rate AND i could stay on her insurance policy to save me a couple hundred bux.
The next place I went to the only people they had selling Scions where the "Scion Champions" the Squall is talkin about, Kearny Mesa Scion. They knew everything and only wanted the best deal for me, he actually convinced me to get a loan from a credit union for a better interest rate.

So, in the end make sure to talk to most of the dealers in the area cuz theres gotta be atleast one good one!

 

try and find someone on here that works at a dealership and go to their dealership. I made a few posts about dealers in my area and Vito(Simplyscion) told me to come and check out a tC spec at his dealership. Well I did and I wound up buying it from him. See who is a salesman in your area and see what they have in stock. You'll be a lot better off doing that then talking to a clueless salesman.

Heres my dealership story:

I go to a dealership and this sales man who works in the scion department asks if he could help me. I said that I'm looking for a bone stock Super White Scion tC spec. First of all he had no idea what a spec was but what ever. Then He asked me what I ment by Super LIGHT.

Moral of the story. Don't ask them questions. you're better off figuring it out yourself. Like I said. find someone on these forums who works at a dealership around you and go see them. You should be a lot better off. I'm definitely happy Vito found me.

 

Most car salesmen aren't worth anything. There are very few professionals out there that know their craft and know their cars, but even we can't be abreast of everything for every car. I consider myself one of the most informed, and I still get caught off guard from time to time.

Being that most salesmen aren't worth their weight in poo, it makes it all the more important that if by happenstance you happen to bump into a pro that genuinely looks after your needs, it's best to keep doing business them.

This is how I catagorize them:

1) Snake oil guy. He can sell ice to eskimos and a bloody popcicle to a bride in her dress. Avoid at all costs, or you may wind up paying 17k for a 3 year old Neon with 40k mi (seen it happen). They are easy to spot and thus easy to avoid. They hop around from dealership to dealership buring bridges with dealers and whacking the crap out of customers, and move to keep from getting burned themselves.

2) Cigarette smoking coffee guy. This type is your "typical" guy. He'll have a cup of coffee in one hand, sunglasses, and cigarette. Been in the buisness since the dawn of time, may or may not know anything about his merchandise, but does well enough (usually just a notch above average) to make a living. Not horrible to deal with, but still you can do better.

3) Newbie. Eager to serve, hasn't been demoralized by the buying public yet, and usually is just happy to see the back of the car leaving the lot. You can push this one around all you want, and they'll keep comming back for more....like a blue healer.

4) Oxygen transfer meat sacks. After talking with them for about a minute and a half, you wonder how many times they pass out because they forget to breathe. Brain has been destroyed by years of partying like it's 1979 and they live at club 54. Offer them a bump, and they'll get you another 500 to a grand off.

5) The Pro. They know what they are doing, genuinely look after your needs, and stay planted at a store for a long time. This is who you really want to deal with. You may pay more, but price isn't everything, and they know how to shave hours off of doing business.

What's required to become a car salesman? A pulse. It's one of the easiest gigs on the planet to get, but it's a rough business, and 80% of car salesmen couldn't support a family off what they make. 10% do well enough to get by alright, and the other 10% can support 5 families. It's the nature of commision only sales.

 

Ok guys, I agree that this can be EXTREMELY frustrating, but that being said try to keep it all in perspective.

A good size Toyota/Scion dealership is going to have 20-25 sales people, out of that 1 or 2 will be Scion Champions. So you’re most likely going to get a Toyota Sales Person that can also sell Scions.
Now if you get one of them the thing you have to keep in mind is that they have to know about 21 different models and each model has quite a few different styles and combos. There is no way a normal person could know all the information about that many cars.
I agree that if you want to sell something you should at have knowledge of the product, but lets be reasonable.

I worked at a Toyota/Scion dealership for 2 years as the Customer Relations Manager and I was the guy that got grab when someone had a question about a Scion. That got annoying but I still have to put it into perspective and realize that there is a reason for it.

I now work at an Acura dealership and their entire line consists of 5 cars. I could see killing a sales person if they couldn’t answer a basic question about Horse Power here.

Just my 2 Cents.

 

ScionofPCFL - That is the best categorization of Sales People I've seen in a long time. I literally sat there and as I was reading each of them I was placing all the Sales people I know into each category. I can't even think of one type that you missed.
Great job man.

 

No, there IS a way a normal person could know all the info about all of those cars. Do you have any idea how many specs on how many different cars I know? Just driving five miles down the street i could probably tell you engine options, hp and tq figures on most new cars. And that's just through being a car enthusiast and running across this information in magazines, etc. Granted, I know more about the cars that I'm interested in, but if I needed to know numbers and specs on cars that I thought were boring simply in order to be better at my job, I think that wouldn't be any problem. Just think about how many useless facts you still know from school. You can hold this information, especially if you have to.

 

...Scionlife has a section on reviews of dealerships .
...I am always amazed by the few who check it out before they buy .
...As I type this , the ad at the bottom of the page reads:
Bob Bridge Scion of Seattle , " My 2007 xB is Here "

 

yea..... we know.... we know.

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=169655

 

What he's saying is that it's impossible to know every stat that is going to be important to every person. You're interested in HP and Torque, figures that are seemingly basic knowledge to you, but do you know how many people actually ask about that? very very few, especially with Toyota. Not only that, the exact same engine has different numbers depending on the car it's being put in. The 3.5 V6 is 268 in the avalon and camry, but 269 in the Rav. Why? Beats the snot out of me.

In addition, Toyota is updating or adding 5-10 models a year. So if you just start working there, it may take you 6 mos to figure out 1/2 of what you need to know about that, in addition to whittling down the feature list in your head to speak about what you gleam is important to the customer in front of you. HP and Torque don't speak to everyone, and figuring out what is important to your individual customer is what sales cars. Our top salesman couldn't tell you hp or torque for any car but his customers love him and send him new customers because he takes care of his people (save for the new Tundra, and that's only because we're pounding it in all of their heads, because this is an instance where it is extremely important).

And salesmen aren't exactly known for being good studiers.

 

I get what you are saying, but lets be honest here. Do you remember EVERYTHING you learned in school? I know I don't, can't remember half of it.
When you start at Toyota you're given an Information pack. In it there are three books, each of these books has anything and everything you want to know about a toyota car. I mean everything, you got cabin space, cargo space, towing weight, engine weight, tire sizes, and on and on. Is a person going to be able to remember all these facts? No.

As a Sales Person its your job to remember as much about a product as you can and be ready for MOST of the questions that you are asked. Most people don't go into the dealership with as much info as a Scion customer will have about one car. Heck I'm a Scion nut and I used to get stumped.
What seperates a good Sales Person and a bad one is there ability to admit they don't know the answer to every question but that they know where they can find the exact answer.

And just to be clear I'm not tryng to defend a guy that doesn't give a crap and/or is lazy but I will stick up for those Sales People that are actually trying.

 

Scionof PCFL - I'm just gonna shut up and let you handle this, you're a hell of a lot faster at responding then I am! haha

 

Exactly. The folks that have done well and take their profession to heart in this business are actually in the people business. 95% of all Toyota customers are just looking for an A to B vehicle. It's impractical to focus on the 5%, but the pro knows that their questions a) can't be dismissed and b) that the customer can't be bs'd. What's the point in memorizing 0-60, 1/4 mi, the price of every accesory to every car, hp/torque, wheel size, turning radius, wheel base, length of vehicle, width of vehicle, trunk cubic volume and the like? It's like knowing the name of the guy that stiched the interior, it's just not that important for the great majority of the public. However, admiting you don't know something but are more than willing to look it up, or by using the phrase, "I believe....." and then following up with a "....but I'll be sure to verify", goes a long long way.

 

eh no big. I've got a few minutes here.

Oh about memorizing facts and all, let me shed this on you from my years in EE:

Guy wants to know how much space a little red ball takes up, so he asks a physicist, a mathmetician, and an engineer. The physicits takes out a beaker, fills it with water, submerges the ball, notes the difference, and computes the volume. The mathmetician takes out his calipers, measures it, plugs into his volume of a sphere formula, and gives you the answer. The engineer takes out his book titled "Little red ball; Specs", flips to the page, and tells you the volume.