thayer

Hi rhothird

All good questions. My CEL lights came on during the winter when I was also driving in snowy streets, but this may have all been a coincidence. Like I said in my thread, I was too lazy to try and troubleshoot what was wrong with the old parts. The most I did was shake the old filter and pump to see if I could hear/feel water splashing inside. I didn't feel/hear anything. Both parts appeared to be dry as a bone.

The factory service manual has a pretty detailed troubleshooting guide for the pump assembly, but I didn't do any of it because I didn't have the correct diameter rubber hose pieces to apply pressue and vacuum to the multiple ports. To give you a feel for their trouble shooting process, the manual tells you to blow air into certain ports and to feel if air comes out of another certain port. This is to check if anything is blocked. Then they tell you to apply 12V to certain pins on the pump plug and to blow air again to see if a valve closes, so you shouldn't feel the air coming out of a certain port.

There are no troubleshooting procedures for the filter in the FSM. I guess I could have cut my old one open to see what it looked like on the inside. If I get the codes again, that's what I'll probably do.

If you don't have the manual and want more specifics, let me know.

profipix

I got Scion xA manual here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?wd9crsz5u6z0781

no password

thayer

rhothird, please post your findings if you go through the troubleshooting process in the FSM.

donttreadonme

First time poster here. I just had the same problem happen to me on my Scion at 115k miles, albeit I bought the car used at 114k miles.....

At first, I only had P043E show up (evap system leak detected, low flow) and I thought it might be the gas cap.

However, two weeks later all the Codes showed up--P043E, P2401, P2402, P2419, P043F.

I don't have the knowledge or tools (or the time to gain the knowledge) to do this myself, so my question is this: what's the cheapest way for me to get this checked out? Should I buy the parts myself and take them to Pep Boys?
Should I find a reliable shop somewhere in town, or should I take it to a chain like Pep Boys? I just moved to a new town so I don't know any mechanics in the area.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

thayer

The fault code doesn't affect how your car will run. You'll just be hurting the environment a bit more by not combusting fuel vapors. The only real problem arises if you need to get your car inspected for state registration or something to that degree. You won't pass with the fault code.

My advice would be to take your time to shop around at local Toyota dealers or local mecahnics. Show them the TSB and ask them for a quote. If you get one you like, let them do it.

donttreadonme

thayer, thanks for the info!

good to know it won't affect how the car runs, but i don't want to degrade the ozone layer anymore than i have to--and as you mentioned i will need to fix this to pass smog--so i will definitely fix this sooner rather than later, though its great to know i dont have to rush and i can shop around.

also, do you think its worth ordering the OEM gas cap just in case P043E shows up again? the cap is definitely aftermarket, it's made by "stant" and doesn't look anything like the scion OEM caps i saw on google images.

as to what caused the fault code....it could be anything since i bought the car used two weeks ago (with 115k miles on it). but as i mentioned, the first code i had was P043E by itself, then the whole set of codes showed up two weeks later. things that stand out that happened between the first and second diagnostics were: 300 mile road trip in which i ran over something on the freeway which bounced underneath my car, and i was also stuck in a huge rain storm for about an hour--i was on the freeway at the time and it was so bad that traffic stopped and i had to pulloff. lots of flash flooding and i was driving through pretty deep puddles.

thayer

I doubt the Stant gas cap will cause you any prolblems. All it has to do is seal, so it's not like it's doing a very specialized job.

I just noticed your fault codes came up almost exactly when mine came up in terms of odometer mileage.

missmelindam

Just wanted to thank everyone who provided info on this problem. I feel I saved a bunch of money with your advice.

Here's how I dealt with my issue.

When the Check Engine Light came on, I took it to my local mechanic who said it threw some fuel evap system codes. He cleared the codes and told me to make sure my gas cap was on tight and to come back if it comes back on.
Two weeks later it did. So I googled Scion xA fuel system evap code and landed on the pertinent TSB and this forum.

I took it to Autozone and had them read the codes for free. It was the five listed in the TSB.

I contacted my local Toyota dealer with this information and asked them if Toyota would cover this repair for free. My car is well out of warranty with about 45,000 miles.

*Deal directly with the Service Manager, as he or she will be the one who has the discretion to make an accommodation.

The Service Manager told me I needed to bring it in to have it diagnosed to make sure that was the problem. He said they would do this for free.

They confirmed that it was the problem described in the TSB. He said that Toyota would give the parts for free: $476 of parts, which is on par for what I've read on this forum for these parts through the dealer. They said I would be responsible for 4 hours of labor.

I negotiated for 2 hours of labor. I asked him to make a one time "good faith" repair. Service managers have the discretion to use a good faith account and Toyota reimburses them, but it is up to the manager when and whether to use it. I feel that Scion could have
easily rectified the problem by retrofitting the affected vehicles with the redesigned part with a recall, and that I really shouldn't be responsible for damage caused by a faulty part -- a cheap one, at that. However, good faith accounts are usually reserved for people
who have their vehicle serviced at the dealer. I do not. In fact, I didn't even buy my car from this dealer. So I felt two hours was a reasonable compromise. He agreed.

So after all was said and done, I made it out of this repair for less than $200.

I would encourage those with this problem to first approach their local dealer. This is a known problem within Toyota, and I have seen several people on this forum get their parts for free -- well out of warranty.
You need to negotiate the LABOR costs with the Service Manager. Explain the problem, be nice, and be persuasive.

Thanks again, Forum, for all your help -- I learned a lot.

jbod

I'm a little baffled by the charcoal canister. haven't had problems with it on my xB, but did on my 99 Corolla I had before. Why do these vehicles even have a charcoal canister? I though charcoal canisters were a thing of the past back when emissions weren't very advanced. I remember when selling my Corolla once I bought the xB. I had to replace the O2 sensors that were bad pretty much the whole time I had the car. Almost 4 years, and over 60k miles. I did this just to get the check engine light off, because that would scare away a potential buyer which is understandable. that, and they might not have had someone to cheat emissions for them like I did.

I scanned the car one last time before selling it. just to make sure I fixed everything to get the light off. replaced the O2 sensors with the help of a friend. reset the battery, and it was off for a little, but it came back on, and I got the charcoal canister code again, but the O2 ones were gone. so then I tell him about it, and he says to me ''wait a minute. this car has a charcoal canister?'' Being that we're in our 40s, and grew up in the 80s driving old clunkers from the 60s and 70s which he still drives we remembered when a lot of those old cars had a charcoal canister. not sure if everything has one nowadays again.

So I'm getting prices, and they want something ridiculous like $400 bucks for the part. This has been bad the whole time or a majority of time I had that car. so I thought to myself ''I'm not sinking another penny into this car. it's got 186k miles, and I've got myself another car already. This car is apparently worth around $2500 bucks, and i'm gonna sell it for $1600. The new owner can either cheat emissions or get it replaced themselves''. Luckily the buyer was a guy I had did work for before. he was a Toyota Tech, and was buying the car for his daughter who just got her license. He knew he could also work on it if it needed work so he wasn't afraid of buying a car with 200k miles.

I told him the charcoal canister was out, and he told me don't worry about it. He told me he would wait until emissions, because the car was inspected for almost a year, and that was one of the perks I sold the car with. Just getting it inspected. He said he would get his dealer discount, and replace it then. he also told me ''it's not a problem. it doesn't really matter. A charcoal canister is merely there for emissions. If anything it might give you a few miles less per gallon, but it isn't something that's gonna make it break down or cause any problems. It's merely there for emissions, and something put on the car to go wrong so Toyota can fix it for you.''

That was the words from a Tech. I know someone will get on here, and say it will blow your motor up, but that's not true. Not saying check engine codes are never a problem that shouldn't be taken care of, but this is no problem. passing emissions though with it is a different story. I'll tell you right now I wouldn't fix it on my car. a $400 dollar part that you don't really need? I'm not advocating not to get it fixed either to other people just what I would do. Either you really care about emissions and the environment, are annoyed with the check engine light, and don't know what other unrelated new codes could have possibly come up driving it around for so long with the light on, or can't pass emissions.

jimrno

Anyone try the canister off a tC? Several on eBay now (Oct 2011) for $75, externals look identical to my xA unit except for the mounting bracket, should be an easy swap.

tC Part number is listed as 77740-22011 vs xA number as 77740-52100. I'd like to find out before I gamble on one.

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txc1988

all these problems are from the charcoal canister and they want to way over charge you for this piece of plastic!!! trust me i know i just replaced mine for the 7th time!!! toyota keeps telling me that water and compacted dirt is getting in thr valve and causing it to go bad. so i got fed up with them not doing any thing about it so i took charge. you can get these canisters at o'reilys for a lil over 300$ and do it yourself. its easy three bolts and two push/pull clips. hope this helps people from getting the bad hand of dealer ships when your car isnt covered.

oh and if you have hd this problem more then once and the evap part goes out after the factory one yr replacment. throw this law at them the U.S. emmisions law of 80k miles. that will make their heads spin.

hope this helps

jimrno

Update 12-16-2011 After much searching bought from to Rockauto.com
Standard Motor Parts # CP429 $215.79 - Perfect match to my 2006 xA factory part.
They shipped it super quick and reasonable.

Took me all of 15 minutes to install it, and that includes time to jack up the car.
Scion /Toyota suck for not covering this TSB for free, my car has only 37,000 miles!

Jim

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dagarhart

This problem typically comes from over filling the gas tank. I had 3 canisters replaced. On the 3rd, the service manager pulled me aside and told me that they would not cover future canister because I was showing neglect. I said, "What!?!?"... He further explained that I was over filling the fuel tank and he could prove it.:? The canister was full of gas. Hmmmmm.

So ever since, I have been the only person to put gas in my car and GUESS WHAT??? No issue. Turns out my kids were squeezing more gas in when they used the car...

jillianmg18

I have had these codes popping up for the last two years now, (2005 Scion tC) and now i have to fix it so I could pass emissions or I cant re-register come January 2013.

Just curious, does anyone know if this is common with the newer 2012, or 2013 Scions. I was going to get a new one but now I'm reconsidering, I don't think i want to go through this every 30,000 miles.

____

thayer

So the same error codes popped up on me again after fixing the problem ~2 years and ~35,000 miles ago (see my previous post on 3/18/2011). My 06 XA now has approximately 150k miles and the codes came on around Xmas of 2012.

As I went to buy the parts online for the 2nd time, I noticed the fuel filler neck part numbers in the TSB came up as not available for Scion. In the online parts search, you get to pick between searching for Scion or Toyota. Since no Scion parts showed up, I tried searching under Toyota and got a list of Yaris parts. I looked through the Yaris parts diagram and ended up buying them, knowing the 2 cars are practically the same.

Here are the 2 filler neck parts I ended up buying:


I noticed that the new parts resembled the parts that were orginally on my Scion before I did the TSB fix the first time...

New is bottom, old (from first TSB fix) is top:


Below is a better look at the part that is different. Like I said in my first post in 2011, I don't know why the parts I got for the first TSB fix got rid of that extra protrusion since you would think it would help with stopping water from getting in, more tortuous path with that inverted snorkel looking protrusion.

New is right, old (from first TSB fix) is left:


New is right, old (from first TSB fix) is left:


All the other parts from the TSB are still available, no difference from 2 years ago.

When I went to do the install, I tried to follow the manual to troubleshoot the pump/canister unit. I did not have a vacuum source, only a compressed air source, so I only went through the positive pressure tests. The pump/cannister unit passed all those tests.

When I went to disconnect the pump from the canister, I could finally see that the canister media was soaked in water. See all the water on the ground in the below pictures, that was what poured out...

Pump looks ok:


Canister media port (white hole towards top with part of the peace symbol) was wet:


The install had no surprises, codes went away after the installation of the new parts.

I can conclude that water is the cause of this failure, not gasoline or any other liquid getting into the canister. I don't know the exact functional process of this part of the emissions system, but I think water is getting in, soaking the media, and creating a blockage.

I don't know exactly how the water is getting into the canister. If the aluminum pipe by the filler neck is the air input port for the canister, I can see water coming through the gas filler neck door and then seeping through/around the filler neck components to get into the canister. During my install, I used a gasket sealant to assembled the 2 halves of the filler neck plastic pieces and then used more to seal that assemble to the actually gasoline filler neck. My goal was to get the air entry to only come through that snorkel looking thing on the new filler neck part.

I kept my old canister and pump. If the codes come up again, I'll try re-installing the old parts since to see if they work since the canister should have dried out by then.

benevolo

Also dealing with the same problem on my Scion. I found the parts in the TSB for $300 online. I also found a mechanic who will replace the filter for $45 in labour (1/2 hour). I've seen other people here getting quotes from their mechanics for 4 hours of labour, why the discrepancy? Is it possibly because I have 4 parts to install, and not just 1 (the charcoal canister)? Or are all those 4 parts assumed to be part of a replacement?

Also does anyone have suggestions on who I could talk to at Scion to see about them offering the parts, if not for free than at least at cost? I don't see how they should be making a profit off me because of their shoddy design.

endpoint

One quick question:

I have a 2006 Scion xA with about 70,000 miles on it. I have the P2401, P2402, & P2419 codes but not the P043E, P043F codes. I've cleared the codes to see if they will reset. I do have P0456 and P0430 Codes as well but figure that the P0456 was a loose cap
and the P0430 is unrelated to this problem. Without the P043E and P043F codes am I looking at the same problem, maybe not so far advanced? Or is this a different animal. For what it's worth this did happen during a particularly rainy couple of weeks.

Any help appreciated. Thanks.

____

thayer

Just wanted to share that my xA was in an accident and the insurance has called it a total loss. She was at 170,200 miles.

I may get an xD or go over to a Honda Fit or Mini Countryman.

I have a wet canister that I was drying out in my garage. Message me if you want it. I can give it to you for the cost of shipping.

I also have a central console control panel for free. Message me if you want it.

_____

gearwrench

I bought my wife a 2006 xB and have the Check Engine Light, VSC and Trac Off lights came on within 2 weeks of the purchase. The dealer that we purchased the vehicle from said they could not read the error codes,
however being a mechanic I used my reader and rec'd the same errors that you have listed. My next step is to check for silent recalls on the charcoal canister and the filler tube. If I find anything out I will post again to help others with this problem.

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TheMotrCty

Had these codes 2x, once at 85,000 (10/01/12) miles and again at 103,000 miles (3/15/13). First time, charcoal canister and dealer replaced it - $450 for parts all in + $220 for labor.
Second time, different dealership, R/R the canister @ no cost. Canister was under parts warranty. Cost me $0. Lesson learned: Keep all your receipts.

Just sayin'...

Ronnie

'06 xB