SUSPENSION FAQ! READ FIRST!
02-08-2006, 01:30 PM
#1
SUSPENSION FAQ! READ FIRST!
THE suspension FAQ for the tC. Scroll down for Install info/options.
I'd like to replace my springs. Do I need to replace the struts too?
- Ideally, you would, but it's not entirely necessary at this point. With lower springs, the struts may encounter a little more wear and tear than normal, but they likely aren't going to blow anytime soon. Even with a severe drop. I know many people are still running on stock struts with new springs and have been without issue for many miles (10-20k+).
How long will my stock struts last if I lower my car?
- There's no way to be sure. It may depend on the springs you install - lower drop (s-techs?) may cause more wear than something not so low (trd?). But that's not to say one would necessarily go before the other. It may also depend on your type of driving. If you're auto-x-ing - you're probably putting more abuse on your stock struts than someone who just has a daily driver to work and such. Ultimately, there's no way to know for sure.
Which springs handle the best?
- If you're looking for springs to perform well, it is often discussed that you would not want to go any lower than about 1.5" front or rear. Doing so would throw off the geometry of the car's suspension and you may actually LOSE performance and handling. Springs that fall into the better side of this category would be the TRD, H&R Sport, Eibach Prokit, Swift, and likely a few others that are very close but may be a touch too low. Spring rates should also be considered for the best handling.
Who makes aftermarket struts for the tC?
- So far, the only ones I know of are TRD, Koni and Tokico. TRD are nice if you want a simple setup and don't mind paying for the TRD name. Koni is a top notch brand but their install for the tC is a bit complicated (though not awful) and they're more expensive than any of the options. Tokico seem to be the affordable solution and no major issues have been reported that I'm aware of.
Should I just get coilovers?
- Maybe. You can likely get a set of coilovers for about $800 + install (easy). If you buy springs and struts, that could run up to $600 or $700 + install. So if you plan on buying struts with your new springs, you might want to at least look into coilovers. In most cases, they'll be a little nicer, and adjustable. However if you don't plan on adjusting ride height or dampening, you may just need springs/struts - and it'll save you a few $$. Coilovers aren't always the best for every situation.
If I lower my car, do I need an alignment?
- Yes. With a lower car, the camber on the front and rear are definitely going to be different and likely out of spec. Other things with the alignment could be wrong as well (especially the toe). Some people choose to wait a couple of weeks for the springs to "settle" first, but do this at your own risk, as tire wear could be severe.
If I lower my car, do I need a camber kit?
- Probably not. Even with the lower car and more negative camber - it will likely be corrected just with an alignment and still be in spec. Hotchkis does make a nice rear camber kit (and Ingalls has front camber bolts and a rear kit in development I think) but unless you have actual plans to have a certain amount of camber and be able to adjust it, I wouldn't bother unless your shop absolutely insists.
Sway bars or strut bars? Which will help more?
- Simple answer? Sway bars. Both front and rear strut bars (top side of the car) for the tC appear to be mostly for looks (some will debate this). If you want a real increase in handling performance, a rear sway bar is a great start. There are many out there and all seem to work very well. If you're into autox and track days, you may want to consider the front and rear swaybar set from Hotchkis - which may be overkill for only a daily driver.
INSTALL OPTIONS
Springs!
- You have three options with this... all depending on your budget, mechanical know-how, and/or available resources.
Option 1: Do it all yourself (a friend or two will help a LOT - your regional forum here on SL is a great place to start looking for help!). There are plenty of resources here on the site to assist you. Multiple DIYs and informative threads. If you have worked on any cars at all, it shouldn't be that bad. It is just tedious and potentially frustrating. But it can be done and saves a ton of $$.
Option 2: Remove the strut assemblies yourself and take all 4 to a shop to have them swap the springs. Then you reinstall the completed assemblies. If you don't have the right tools to swap the springs or have a limited budget, this is a great alternative. Just be sure to call around to local shops ahead of time for pricing/availability. Some shops will not do this due to liability concerns. The places I've used typically run about $15 per assembly to do the swap. Under $100 and they do all the PITA work.
Option 3: Have a shop do everything. The easiest solution... especially if $ is no object and/or you don't think you could DIY. Just not as gratifying. Call around to local shops, check the regional forums for recommendations. Prices vary greatly... anywhere from $150-$300+ is very likely.
Sway bars!
- Rear is a breeze. If you get a set (Hotchkis, ST, Eibach), the front is a total PITA but can be done with the right tools. Still DIY worthy.
Strut bars!
- YES! Cake. Both front and rear are fairly simple.
DIY LINKS
- Tein Basic Coilover Install
- Koni Yellow Front Strut Install
- Tein H-Tech Spring Install
- Hotchkis Spring Install (PDF from Hotchkis.net)
- TRD Rear Sway Install
- TRD Rear Sway Install (PDF from TRDSparks)
- Progress Rear Sway Install
- DME Front Strut Bar Install
- DME Rear Strut Bar Install
- Ingalls Rear Strut Brace Install
- Ingalls Rear Strut Brace Install (take 2)
EDITS
7/31/08 - added "which handle the best", modified some of the coilovers question
8/12/08 - added spring install options
5/27/09 - added list of DIYs
I'd like to replace my springs. Do I need to replace the struts too?
- Ideally, you would, but it's not entirely necessary at this point. With lower springs, the struts may encounter a little more wear and tear than normal, but they likely aren't going to blow anytime soon. Even with a severe drop. I know many people are still running on stock struts with new springs and have been without issue for many miles (10-20k+).
How long will my stock struts last if I lower my car?
- There's no way to be sure. It may depend on the springs you install - lower drop (s-techs?) may cause more wear than something not so low (trd?). But that's not to say one would necessarily go before the other. It may also depend on your type of driving. If you're auto-x-ing - you're probably putting more abuse on your stock struts than someone who just has a daily driver to work and such. Ultimately, there's no way to know for sure.
Which springs handle the best?
- If you're looking for springs to perform well, it is often discussed that you would not want to go any lower than about 1.5" front or rear. Doing so would throw off the geometry of the car's suspension and you may actually LOSE performance and handling. Springs that fall into the better side of this category would be the TRD, H&R Sport, Eibach Prokit, Swift, and likely a few others that are very close but may be a touch too low. Spring rates should also be considered for the best handling.
Who makes aftermarket struts for the tC?
- So far, the only ones I know of are TRD, Koni and Tokico. TRD are nice if you want a simple setup and don't mind paying for the TRD name. Koni is a top notch brand but their install for the tC is a bit complicated (though not awful) and they're more expensive than any of the options. Tokico seem to be the affordable solution and no major issues have been reported that I'm aware of.
Should I just get coilovers?
- Maybe. You can likely get a set of coilovers for about $800 + install (easy). If you buy springs and struts, that could run up to $600 or $700 + install. So if you plan on buying struts with your new springs, you might want to at least look into coilovers. In most cases, they'll be a little nicer, and adjustable. However if you don't plan on adjusting ride height or dampening, you may just need springs/struts - and it'll save you a few $$. Coilovers aren't always the best for every situation.
If I lower my car, do I need an alignment?
- Yes. With a lower car, the camber on the front and rear are definitely going to be different and likely out of spec. Other things with the alignment could be wrong as well (especially the toe). Some people choose to wait a couple of weeks for the springs to "settle" first, but do this at your own risk, as tire wear could be severe.
If I lower my car, do I need a camber kit?
- Probably not. Even with the lower car and more negative camber - it will likely be corrected just with an alignment and still be in spec. Hotchkis does make a nice rear camber kit (and Ingalls has front camber bolts and a rear kit in development I think) but unless you have actual plans to have a certain amount of camber and be able to adjust it, I wouldn't bother unless your shop absolutely insists.
Sway bars or strut bars? Which will help more?
- Simple answer? Sway bars. Both front and rear strut bars (top side of the car) for the tC appear to be mostly for looks (some will debate this). If you want a real increase in handling performance, a rear sway bar is a great start. There are many out there and all seem to work very well. If you're into autox and track days, you may want to consider the front and rear swaybar set from Hotchkis - which may be overkill for only a daily driver.
INSTALL OPTIONS
Springs!
- You have three options with this... all depending on your budget, mechanical know-how, and/or available resources.
Option 1: Do it all yourself (a friend or two will help a LOT - your regional forum here on SL is a great place to start looking for help!). There are plenty of resources here on the site to assist you. Multiple DIYs and informative threads. If you have worked on any cars at all, it shouldn't be that bad. It is just tedious and potentially frustrating. But it can be done and saves a ton of $$.
Option 2: Remove the strut assemblies yourself and take all 4 to a shop to have them swap the springs. Then you reinstall the completed assemblies. If you don't have the right tools to swap the springs or have a limited budget, this is a great alternative. Just be sure to call around to local shops ahead of time for pricing/availability. Some shops will not do this due to liability concerns. The places I've used typically run about $15 per assembly to do the swap. Under $100 and they do all the PITA work.
Option 3: Have a shop do everything. The easiest solution... especially if $ is no object and/or you don't think you could DIY. Just not as gratifying. Call around to local shops, check the regional forums for recommendations. Prices vary greatly... anywhere from $150-$300+ is very likely.
Sway bars!
- Rear is a breeze. If you get a set (Hotchkis, ST, Eibach), the front is a total PITA but can be done with the right tools. Still DIY worthy.
Strut bars!
- YES! Cake. Both front and rear are fairly simple.
DIY LINKS
- Tein Basic Coilover Install
- Koni Yellow Front Strut Install
- Tein H-Tech Spring Install
- Hotchkis Spring Install (PDF from Hotchkis.net)
- TRD Rear Sway Install
- TRD Rear Sway Install (PDF from TRDSparks)
- Progress Rear Sway Install
- DME Front Strut Bar Install
- DME Rear Strut Bar Install
- Ingalls Rear Strut Brace Install
- Ingalls Rear Strut Brace Install (take 2)
EDITS
7/31/08 - added "which handle the best", modified some of the coilovers question
8/12/08 - added spring install options
5/27/09 - added list of DIYs
02-26-2006, 01:32 AM
#4
Senior Member
SL Member
Scinergy
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Canton, GA
Posts: 409
On the question of "blowing out stock struts"...I believe this has more to do with spring rate.
If there's less piston travel over the same bump, the seal would be rubbing over a smaller distance on the piston shaft. Over time this would lead to a worn shaft and/or an overheated seal. Either or both would cause failure.
If there's less piston travel over the same bump, the seal would be rubbing over a smaller distance on the piston shaft. Over time this would lead to a worn shaft and/or an overheated seal. Either or both would cause failure.
03-06-2006, 12:42 PM
#6
^ I used to have something like that. I might still put it back. We want people to use the parts section too though.
If I put up a chart for springs and their drop, then I'll have to put back the sway bars and their size and such, then coilovers, then camber kits... you get the idea. Soon enough, it's back to the way it was and I've done nothing.
I don't know though. I might still try to figure out a way...
If I put up a chart for springs and their drop, then I'll have to put back the sway bars and their size and such, then coilovers, then camber kits... you get the idea. Soon enough, it's back to the way it was and I've done nothing.
I don't know though. I might still try to figure out a way...
06-17-2006, 07:41 PM
#9
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 4
Does anyone know how much a complete set of adjustable suspension parts would cost from Tein? I have seen a post on here before with a full set of components, and it even had a digital guage to adjust the toe and camber.
06-30-2006, 08:03 PM
#13
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 505
idea
Here's something worthy of adding to the FAQ I think...
Maybe explain the difference between springs/struts and coilovers? I know when I was origionally looking at lowering my car I had noooo clue what I was doing and wondering to myself "wtf is a coilover"
Maybe explain the difference between springs/struts and coilovers? I know when I was origionally looking at lowering my car I had noooo clue what I was doing and wondering to myself "wtf is a coilover"
02-23-2007, 03:55 AM
#19
Senior Member
SL Member
Scion Evolution
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PLU/Trojan High, HI
Posts: 383
wait, which direction do i turn the koni's in the front to make it stiffer/looser? can someone post that again... i do realize this is a tC thread, but i'm assuming for those who have koni yellows in the front its going to be the same direction....
