heywire

I'm sorry, but I just can't believe that a simple filter is going to make that much of a difference... I mean, c'mon, Toyota has to employ some high-dollar engineers, and you'd sure think they would put some sort of regulation on the voltage coming in to the ECU, and going out to the sensors. If Toyota could spend another $1-2 per vehicle and increase gas mileage by even 1 mpg, and make the vehicle run "so much smoother" -- they'd have already done it, or I should say they already have.

George

Be careful! People who have spent time and $$$ on the latest snake oil don't like it when you point that sort of thing out.

Paralleling a couple of little electrolytic caps with a big car battery doesn't stabilize a thing. Bridging ground wires across a thick aluminum engine block doesn't do much either. What it does do is look kewl and allows folks to think that they are "modding" their cars without having them screw anything up.

wuhaha

hi, i'm newbies here.. just wish to DIY vs for my car. But some question here, if i really cant find such 100uF ceramic caps in the market, is that any other can replace it?

Scott17

Save your money for something worthwhile.

superbiker

wow you think this looks cool???
i sould show you the underside of my shoe. you will think im GOD...

edxa

Um...the battery is good for handling low frequency power surges but sucks at filtering high frequency noise. Why do you think most after-market car stereos require a "filter" to be placed in the power line close to the radio and grounded? For car stereos the filter is needed to remove the high frequency noise produced by the alternator and ignition system. That same noise has an impact on the ecu, however you can bet that the Toyota engineers added filter capacitors inside the module. But here's the thing, a single filter can only remove X amount of noise from the system. The Toyota engineers probably added enough capacitive filtration to reduce the noise to a "reasonable" level. Reasonable in this context 'usually' means reducing variation (or the error rate) to 5000ppm. Adding additional filtration will likely reduce the error rate even further. It's still up for grabs weather the additional filtration actually results in a smoother idle, improved fuel economy, or quicker throttle response but you can be sure that your electrical system is less noisy and possibly have some kind of placebo effect on the driver.

I'll give it a try; I have access to some good sized capacitors 1000uF. I'll also throw in some smaller ceramic caps for good measure.

SaintJ

This is very interesting, and very logical, but in the ECU, the computer has its own power regulartors that maintain the functionality. every single circuit board i worked with that has some kind of microcontroller has these power regulators/filters. how well does this same principle work for the larger scale of a car battery and the car? also the grounding wires, how much of an efficiency impact will it have? and someone mentioned above. why arn't the 'professional' car dealers including these principles in the new vehicles they sell?
Filter systems are great. but does it work on a larger scale?

George

Precisely! The key phrase here is "close to the radio". Putting a "voltage stabilizer" near the battery does nothing to eliminate high frequency noise picked up by the wires between the battery and load.

The proponents of this snake oil don't really talk about filtering, but claim that the capacitors prevent voltage sags. Possible, but to do that you would need some _large_ capacitors, not a few 100 microfarad electrolytics in a box.

George

invisible21

Dude, why do you keep knocking Kong and calling it snake oil...I personally find it pretty annoying. I mean, it's not like he's trying to sell these things or make any money...he's actually trying to give people a cheaper diy way to stabilize the voltage in your vehicle. I do have a BSEE and you know what, in theory, his voltage stabalizer should do exactly as he says. He's not claiming it will add 5 hp or give you 40 mpg. He's saying it will smooth out your throttle response and give you MAYBE .5 mpg...and you can judge for yourself for a measly $35 in parts and probably an hour of your time at most. And if it doesn't do anything, who cares? eat bologna sandwiches for a week and call it even. I could understand knocking this thing if he were in any way trying to benefit himself with this thread but he's just trying to share his hobby that he thought was cool...give it a break man.

Also, I believe kong said he was using 100,000 uF electrolytic and 100 uF ceramic...and .01 F electrolytic * 4 = .04 F which isn't terribly small when you're talking about smoothing minor ripple.

George

I am not knocking kong or any other person. I discuss ideas, not personalities. The idea that the voltage needs to be stabilized is an excellent example of "snake oil", so that's what I call it.

No, the cost of chasing this ghost isn't excessive, although not as cheap as you say if 100000 microfarad capacitors are actually used. Those are expensive in the voltage ratings required for this application. I figure about $75 total including the box, wires, terminals, etc. if 100000 microfarad capacitors of proper voltage ratings are used.

Large capacitors such as these are only available in low voltage ratings and someone might be tempted to save a few bucks by using 16V capacitors since the system is a nominal 12V. There is a possibility that they would end up with a fire if the capacitor shorts out in this unfused circuit. An experimenter would actually be safer if using smaller capacitors (say 1000 microfarad) with higher voltage ratings, and the result would be equally ineffective.

In any case, it's a lot of effort to put into a problem that doesn't exist!

Scott17

^^^^^^ Exactly!

CoveJ

Anyone have an update? What size are the ceramic caps? I know 16 v but what capacitance? I'd like to try this myself.

I have an electronic background, so I'm curious.

Scott17

If you have an electronic background you should know better...........

CoveJ

I know that a grounding kit, more so on an older car than a newer car, works wonderfull. I know this because I've tried it. It doesn't add 100 hp or anything, just makes things run smoother. I find there are a few people on here that are too quick to post "That's BS". I said I was curious, not looking for huge gains or anything. Please refrain from the negative comments. I'm not interested in hearing that thisi doesn't work, unless you've actually tried it.

Scott17

I never tried eating Draino, but I know it's not too good for you. I know a thing or two about automotive electronics too.............

CoveJ

If you know about automotive electronics then you know that ground points decay over time, electronics need filters and computers are very easily affected by voltage irregularities. I work in the automotive industry and I know enough about electonics/automotive electronics to know that this has the posibility to work, or companies wouldn't spend the money to make the products. I've seen new cars with sever problems due to small electrical issues. I've seen engineers making six figues make mistakes that make it to the public in the vehicles that are released. I've worked with R&D programs that deal with electrical issues and the simple fixes that made huge differences. A lot of the cost of products is the research, overhead and profit. If you can do something like this yourself then great. Don't fault those of us interested in trying something out of curiousity.

Scott17

Have your ground points decayed? Do your electronics not already have filters?Does your computer not already have a quite competent power supply?Do you have some sort of problem now that you are trying to alleviate?Good luck with all that......Be sure to post up your stunning results.

CoveJ

You are a certified idiot. I'm really glad I wasted my breath on you. Don't worry, I won't make the mistake after this.

George

I'm fairly sure that most folk who spends time and effort chasing a problem, real or imagined, will feel some "results" from their efforts whether they are real or not. It's human nature.

In order to make any real judgement, measureable data has to be collected both before and after any modification. A result of "feels smoother" is subjective, not objective.

Experimental

if you don't think the mod is worthwhile or does nothing at all, simple, don't do it. if you think cars are perfect from factory, i guess recalls are a thing of fantasy. if your going to spit on an idea/mod someone is sharing with everyone, not forcing you to do it, because you don't think it will do anything, because obviously engineers are infallable, then you have no buisness being a part of this thread. ideas are scoffed at by the ignorant.

"If man was meant to fly god would have given him wings" thank god there were a few thinkers out there who refused to believe that one and try new things.