kdanie

I spent much of yesterday afternoon/evening at Modacar in Livermore CA watching some testing conducted by Chris and Leo from Weapon R. I know many of you have some heartburn with this company, I don't have those prejudices and went with an open mind. Here's what I observed:

Modacar is a nice shop/store.

Leo seems to really care about producing a good product.

The test car was a nice stock Xb (with exception of Injen intake) willingly provided by a young man named Daniel. I didn't get his last name but it doesn't really mater, all that matters is he was willing to have his Xb thrashed on the dyno for the greater good. I don't think I would be that generous with my Xa!! He arrived with an Injen intake installed and swapped to the stock air box in the parking lot WITHOUT disconnecting/removing the battery. Why did I say this? It is important later....

Tests: Remember that these tests are for this car on this dyno on this day with this operator and cannot be compared to any other dyno test. Sorry, that's just the way it is in the SCIENTIFIC high performance world!

1. Stock intake, ran 3 times. Best run-94.1hp, 98.3lbft of torque. The shop guys said they have dynoed stock Scions at 98-100hp; must have had "Really good air" on those days!!
2. Injen intake, several runs 3-4 (I lost count because liability rules don't allow observers inside the dyno area during runs). Best run-96.3hp, 100.2lbft of torque.
3. Weapon R prototype intake, several runs. Best run was in between the stock and Injen intake.
4. Weapon R prototype intake with the venturi tube removed, several runs. Best run was almost exactly equal to the Injen intake.
5. Weapon R prototype intake without the venturi tube and about 3" removed from the overall length, several runs. Best run-97hp, 99.58lbft of torque.

Here's what I learned:

On this day with this car on this dyno, the Weapon R made 1hp more than the Injen.

We missed an apples/apples comparison with the stock intake and didn't realize it until later.... Here's what happened, the stock intake was tested in a as driven on the street condition, that is different from the other intakes tested -what does that mean? Our ECUs "learn" as we drive and optimize the fuel and spark curves for the conditions it sees through the sensors. After testing the stock intake the battery was removed to install the Injen intake. By disconnecting and removing the battery the ECU reverted to it's baseline spark/fuel curves=not apples/apples.

The Weapon R vs Injen was a valid comparison using the base line settings in the ECU and they both had about the same number of runs to "learn" from. The stock intake was with spark/fuel optimized for the Injen intake previously installed=apples/oranges comparison and means little if anything.

Now here's my opinion: The stock air box/plumbing is not the main restriciton on these engines, it's that huge MAF sensor hanging down in the air flow!! Someone really needs to figure out how to reprogram the ECU to use a MAP sensor instead!! I'd bet that would be worth 10 peak HP by itself.

I cannot see the reasoning behind spending $150-$300 for such small HP gains! If you are willing to spend that much $$ per HP, the companies are willing to take your $$. I have heard people arguing that one intake is better than another because it made 1 peak hp more on a dyno test and it wasn't even on their car!! That's a load of crap, nobody can feel 1 peak hp in the real world! In a drag race, reaction time (driver) has WAY more impact than any of these intakes could make!! HAAA, that ought to start the flames, that's ok, I have asbestos skin and love a good technical discussion... I hope this makes you think a little.
ken

Munch

I wonder if my HKS VPC (Vein Pressure Converter) would work with the Scion. It eliminates the MAF and converts it into speed density. I bet you could probably pick up 5-10 hp by eliminating the MAF. My turbo AWD Eclipse picked up 20hp by just adding that piece alone. I have 2 more weeks and I'm gonna give it a try.

scionaraxb

well written........

I agree about the 1hp over another argument.

This ought to be a fun thread to watch!

izzles

See they used a stock xb.....Okay so thie did do some runs....

TheRedBox

Good write up.

I have to agree that the intake battle is funny. 1 WHP isn't going to do anyone any good. I also agree that it's all DRIVER...

The weapon R intake DID make that much more power.. just for those who really want to know or care. I personally feel that it doesn't matter if it did or didn't. Weapon R IS changing their company around, and it's real nice to see a company do R&D work... Their initial design didn't make much more power. They though about what they could do to make power, put it into play. It made more power. They wanted to more, so they tried another design..and so forth and so forth. That in itself is deserving of respect, as I know of companies that just make a pipe, put it somewhere, throw on a filter and say it makes power. Either way... FAT PROPS TO WEAPON...

Go Nor*cal!!!!!

TheRedBox

BTW for those that didn't know.. That was my car. I tried to take pics, but my digi cam had no juice left. :oops:

scionaraxb

well, thanks for putting your car through hell for all of us.

TheRedBox

No prob

dinkjs

I totally agree about the 1 horsepower ordeal....I think with the xB its going to be more of personal taste on the color and graphic design and all that marketing stuff for which one a person buys.....I am more proned to buy one for the added gas mileage it will give me....but for something like that do you think compared a short ram to a CAI your going to get about the same added mpg to your car?????

scionaraxb

I was getting worse after I put on my AEM...but I did the battery diconnect thing and now I'm getting 2MPG better this last tank.

izzles

Damn I missed it......I know it blinked on the dyno....hopefully there was parking cause that whole lot is full of cars....

TheRedBox

izzles,

Its alright.. wasnt a super fun time. it was cool. Whos the tech you know over there?

WEAPONRLEO

Thanks to the guys who showed up to the dyno.

I also agree that the 1hp difference in this car will not make much of a difference..
So i went back home and thought about how and why this car needs to flow.
My conclusions.
1. Being that the engine is small.. it needs a more direct airflow.
2. I still feel that the velocity tube inside the pipe will make more power, it's just figuring the size and length.
3. Overall tube length is going to effect the intakes overall performance.
4. Im going back to the dyno with 3 other tube config's.

Here are the dyno results..
www.weapon-r.com/images/xbintakesmall.jpg

Here is the picture of the car on the dyno...
www.weapon-r.com/images/xbdynosmall.jpg

With that said.. I will be back with my new intake design and Headers..

Leo

westsype

So who really thought the xbs could really be that fast. Pretty much buy the intake that you think looks the best or just by an intake because you like the cool sound it makes. IMO.

TheRedBox

And i'll be here waiting for you headers.

scionaraxb

hmmm...interesting little dip the 2 aftermarket intake both took at 61-62MPH on the dyno chart compared to stock. In my automatic Xb that would be at about 3000rpm or so.

kdanie

That speed is misleading, I forgot to mention the runs were made in 3rd gear so the RPM would be different in cruising.

Leo, I have some ideas for the intake pipe and a bunch for a header. Please check my website (in my profile) and go to the page on header design. I will try and get down next week so you can use my Xa for fitment and we can discuss the header if you are open to input. I have learned even more since I wrote that page.... Huge subject and I learn more all the time.
ken

scionaraxb

so then what was the rpm when that dip occurred???

squirrel

I agree w/ re-mapping the ECU. It doesn't matter of you have the EVO, WRX-STi, or our xBs. Peeps I know w/ EVOs, WRXs, WRX-STis, all have remapped ECUs. If you have the resources to properly map the ECU, then you will have more gains. Sure an intake, and exhaust help, but one will have alot more gains by remapping the ECU.

Thanks Daniel for using your Red Box. I hope to see it soon!

bBted

what about SAFC II??would that work?