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Scion xA/xB 1st-Gen Drivetrain & Power Engine and transmission discussions...

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Old 07-27-2008, 09:09 PM   #41
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Both have the 1NZ-FE engine (an option on the bB).
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Old 07-27-2008, 10:40 PM   #42
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i still dont get it why does the cars manual say gap them at 32 not 44 lol what is the diff and what is better.
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Old 07-27-2008, 10:54 PM   #43
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I do not know this is the reason, but it certainly could be...

Cars in the US are nortoriously less well maintained by the "average owner" than cars in many other parts of the world, and plugs are often not changed until the engine refuses to run well.

In order to ensure that the vehicle meets EPA requirements in the US for as long as possible, many minor "adjustments" are made to the specs.

A plug gapped to .032 will continue to ignite the air/fuel mixture for much longer without maintenance than a plug with .044 gap, since as the electrode materials erode, the gap gets progressively wider, and a plug starting at .044 is .012 closer to failing because of the gap increasing.

.032 simply prevents misfires for longer mileage than a gap of .044, thus ensuring the emissions meet emission requirements for more miles, and folks won't be back into the dealership for emission test failures during the warranty period.

Other than that, I really don't know of any other reason we have plugs with broader electrodes and closer gaps than the JDM standard.

Beyond that, "which is better" is a toss-up. A wider gap can give a larger spark surface and therefore a slightly broader flame front in the combustion chamber, which under SOME circumstances can marginally affect power delivery, but for the most part, there is really little difference in day to day performance.

(A narrower gap will fire under a much wider range of fuel qualities and air/fuel mixtures given the same electrode shape and size. Pointier/narrower electrodes will generally fire over a little wider gap because the sharper edges make it easier to strike a spark. Iridium plugs have pointy electrodes and are a bit more trustworthy over wide gaps than more blunt electrodes.)

I could go on about this for several pages, but what it boils down to is use what ya want to as long as your plug is in the proper heat range...

YMMV, IANAL, and all the rest of that stuff...
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Old 07-27-2008, 11:56 PM   #44
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kool know i understand lol Thanks a lot man for the info.
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:03 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCCBox
what is the diff from the bB then the xb they have the same motors right
Right. I had originally installed my irridiums at .032 and couldn't notice a difference from the stockers. Pulled them out and gapped them to .044. That did the trick. Gives a hotter spark, smoothed out the idle and I did it right before a long road trip. During that trip I recorded my best ever mpg of 37.5. Love my Irridiums and feel they were worth every dollar spent. Plus they will last for a long time unlike stock replacements.
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:26 AM   #46
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hey Tomas , Long time no post fer me ( I got tired of a fewpeeople with that bad attitude)

But For those that are gapping at .44instead of the .32, Ask Tomas about the actual changes thathappen with the wider gap.
Like the change in timing because the wider gap has the coils building a larger charge to reach over the gap ( takes lomger for the charge to build up enough ummmppph to jump the gap). Even in a car that has an ECU that controls the spark.

This may explain why peoples cars run smoother, quicker and the like.

Now back to my swamp to let the "boys" play ( hope they play nice)
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:36 AM   #47
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Hey, Froggie, long time!

You are correct that larger gaps delay the start of the arc due to the needed higher voltages, but in the high pressure environment of the compressed gasses at the time, the difference in timing in our fairly relaxed engines is probably almost unnoticeable.

It is there, but unless one is running near red line the timing difference this imposes might not even be measurable UNLESS the gap is near the limit that a particular coil can force an arc across.

Unless one has a "weak" coil or has very low source voltage (cold morning starting? weak battery?), the amount this retards the timing is very small, but still possibly enough to smooth out some idle problems.

(Keep in mind that the opposite is also true - a shorter gap advances the spark a small amount, and could roughen an engine... or sharper edges on the gap, requiring lower voltage difference to initiate the arc would also advance the timing a bit.)

Overall, though, our stock engines are relaxed enough and these changes are small enough that I'm not all that sure most folks would notice most of the time...

(This reminds me - I need to start paying attention to my ignition timing on my ScanGauge II so I will have a baseline for when I change plugs in the near future, just so I can see if there is a difference from new Iridiums as opposed to the OEM plugs Vanilla is running now.)
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:37 PM   #48
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So it would be better for me to gap them out to .44 for better gas milage and better response LOL because i always kinda like to get on it and get the most out of it LOL. Just wondering!!! Thanks for all the info because i am learning more about the xb now LOL!!!!
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:50 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCCBox
So it would be better for me to gap them out to .44 for better gas milage and better response LOL because i always kinda like to get on it and get the most out of it LOL. Just wondering!!! Thanks for all the info because i am learning more about the xb now LOL!!!!
I would if I were you. If you don't the only real gains you'll see is longer plug life. I like the smoother idle quality and increase mpgs with ever so slight performance increase.
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:02 PM   #50
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LOL so i am going to gap them .44 and let yall know in a week or when i notice a change LOL and if i like it better LOL!!!
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:06 PM   #51
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Cool, just be real careful with those fragile tips.
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:14 PM   #52
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ya true lol i might just wait till friday to just get new plugs that come gaped at .44 i degap the ones i have in there now LOL because i thought they were suppose to be gaped at .32 because of what the manual said LOL!!!
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:23 PM   #53
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It is generally considered poor form to try to re-gap iridium plugs because they are mechanically very fragile. It can be done, but be SURE not to damage the electrodes AND to make sure the alignment of them is exactly the same before and after.

As to just making the gaps .044, remember that even though it should work just fine and not cause any serious problems to create a slightly larger arc that is slightly delayed from stock settings (though in moving from the blunt OEM to the sharp iridium electrodes pulls the timing back toward stock) there COULD be problems...

If any of your coils (one per plug) are weak, that plug may or may not fire reliably. If any of your wiring or connections to a plug's coil are less than optimum, that could also cause reliability problems.

Remember that a gap of .032 is mostly there to allow the system as a whole to keep working even is some parts of it are not performing as they should. (The gap is short to let the average American not maintain their car as is typical...)

A .032 gap will cover for a weak coil or poor connection where a gap of .044 can expose the problem.

Running a wider gap, even with a plug intended for a wider gap (like the iridium) can expose existing problems you didn't know you had.

EVERYTHING has to be working right when you start making adjustments more toward the edge of the range.

I'll be changing plugs a little later this summer, and I will be moving toward .044 iridium. I'm hoping that the rest of my stock system is up to the stress.

Random thought: I wonder if the Prius coils are the same as ours, or if they are designed to produce a higher voltage? If they are different in that way, I wonder if they might be a reasonable move for some folks who really push their engines hard.
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:32 PM   #54
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I don't see why the Prius coils would be different. I could never understand why they went with the smaller gap than the bB but thanks for letting us know the possible downside Tomas. You rock for sure!
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:46 PM   #55
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The Prius uses the same base engine that's in the xA/xB Classic, with some changes - one of the changes is they use the iridium plugs gapped at .044, which is why I'm wondering if possibly they have a beefed up coil spec...
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:49 PM   #56
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Check and find out please. I don't see why the xBs would have gotten watered down coils instead of the same exact ones the Prius and bB got.
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:57 PM   #57
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...same part number.
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:59 PM   #58
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Good to know then. The coils should have no problem with the .044 gaps.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:38 AM   #59
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Hey guys what’s up? Hey Tomas your the man!!!! real good info in her about plugs, you really got technical with us but I have one more question to add to the millions asked: im boosting 7 lbs with a greedy kit, I hear I should run colder plugs, can you recommend me a plug to go with and the gap I should put it at
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Old 07-29-2008, 04:03 AM   #60
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Sorry, not knowledgeable at all about forced induction, so you really need to check with someone who knows.

Don't want to mislead you.
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