Safe boost PSI on stock engine
09-11-2008, 12:21 AM
#22
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SL Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: PTuning
Posts: 1,902
Originally Posted by uber-xA-RS2
Since I have peaked some interest, here are the nitty gritty details on the setup I'm running.
Turbo:
GReddy Scion xB Turbo Kit (Mitsubishi TF-035 14GK turbo)
GReddy Front Mount Intercooler
Custom charge piping, I did not use the stock GReddy routing.
Turbo Downpipe flange remounted to match up to the stock exhaust flange.
Fully custom built 2.25 inch exhaust, with a highflow cat, resonator and coupled to the TRD exhaust.
GReddy Type RS BOV set up as atmospheric dump
Mechanical Bits:
Perrin Fuel Rail
Scion tC fuel injectors
GReddy Oil Filter Adaptor block
Ingalls ETD
Electronics:
GReddy eManage Ultimate
GReddy Profec B Spec II Electronic Boost Controller
Innovate Motorsports LC-1 Wideband AFC (mounted in the downpipe)
Defi Blue Racer Boost, Oil PSI, EGT gauges
GReddy Automatic Turbo Timer
The car has been fully tuned on a Dynapack 2000 Chassis dyno. Tuning the eManage took about four hours and the car has been tuned for half and full throttle to maintain economy when not in boost. The maps were fully written by the tuner who also happens to be a software engineer.
My tuner is Holyroller Dyno/Ballistic Motorsports of Bow, NH
The injectors are the stock Scion tC 370cc injectors running at 89% duty cycle.
Ambient air temps on the final pull was 83 degrees, resulting in 157Whp and 165Wtq
I have had the opportunity to drive the car in cooler weather and I suspect at least another 10whp with the lower air charge temps.
Car gets to 60MPH shifting into third and from there on it's a scary ride
There are a few quirks as to be expected.
The tune on this car is insanely aggressive. Fully mapped for fuel consumption up to 6500 RPM and full ignition adjustments throughout the entire RPM range. The negative result is that the car runs a little rough on first start up and warmup requiring some monitoring. Once at operating temps the car runs like a stock xA.
The engine runs very high oil pressure when in open loop 80-100 PSI at the filter, This has had a negative effect on the turbo as I do burn a miniscule amount of oil under full power.
The stock cooling system doesn't like being turbochaged at all. Upgrades are planned.
Airflow into the engine bay is minimal, to reduce stress on the other components addition airflow is needed. Do what ever it takes to get extra cool air in there.
So in the end is it worh 4500-6000 to turbocharge the xA or xB1
HELL YES!!
Turbo:
GReddy Scion xB Turbo Kit (Mitsubishi TF-035 14GK turbo)
GReddy Front Mount Intercooler
Custom charge piping, I did not use the stock GReddy routing.
Turbo Downpipe flange remounted to match up to the stock exhaust flange.
Fully custom built 2.25 inch exhaust, with a highflow cat, resonator and coupled to the TRD exhaust.
GReddy Type RS BOV set up as atmospheric dump
Mechanical Bits:
Perrin Fuel Rail
Scion tC fuel injectors
GReddy Oil Filter Adaptor block
Ingalls ETD
Electronics:
GReddy eManage Ultimate
GReddy Profec B Spec II Electronic Boost Controller
Innovate Motorsports LC-1 Wideband AFC (mounted in the downpipe)
Defi Blue Racer Boost, Oil PSI, EGT gauges
GReddy Automatic Turbo Timer
The car has been fully tuned on a Dynapack 2000 Chassis dyno. Tuning the eManage took about four hours and the car has been tuned for half and full throttle to maintain economy when not in boost. The maps were fully written by the tuner who also happens to be a software engineer.
My tuner is Holyroller Dyno/Ballistic Motorsports of Bow, NH
The injectors are the stock Scion tC 370cc injectors running at 89% duty cycle.
Ambient air temps on the final pull was 83 degrees, resulting in 157Whp and 165Wtq
I have had the opportunity to drive the car in cooler weather and I suspect at least another 10whp with the lower air charge temps.
Car gets to 60MPH shifting into third and from there on it's a scary ride
There are a few quirks as to be expected.
The tune on this car is insanely aggressive. Fully mapped for fuel consumption up to 6500 RPM and full ignition adjustments throughout the entire RPM range. The negative result is that the car runs a little rough on first start up and warmup requiring some monitoring. Once at operating temps the car runs like a stock xA.
The engine runs very high oil pressure when in open loop 80-100 PSI at the filter, This has had a negative effect on the turbo as I do burn a miniscule amount of oil under full power.
The stock cooling system doesn't like being turbochaged at all. Upgrades are planned.
Airflow into the engine bay is minimal, to reduce stress on the other components addition airflow is needed. Do what ever it takes to get extra cool air in there.
So in the end is it worh 4500-6000 to turbocharge the xA or xB1
HELL YES!!
If you want to further the quality of your tune I would suggest coupling the Greddy boost pressure sensor with your Ultimate. Im actually suprised your tuner didnt push that item.... is the Dyno-pack a load baring dyno? Basically there is no way to get a perfect tune by tuning a Turbocharged car tuning via RPM's alone, this is because you encounter different boost at different RPM's depending on how you drive your car. (example... your tuner tuned for every rpm at half throttle, what load was it? was is cruising not on boost? because if you are at half throttle accelerating or going up a hill then those fuel trim numbers go out the window)
Also, you might notice your tune may fall off a bit, Toyota computers are fighters... the only way to hold a tune is to leave the front O2 sensor disconnected to spoof the factory ECU into not making fuel and timing trim adjustments.
My car has been tuned and tuned again on our Dyno-dynamics dyno, it has a recorded 198 pulls of tune time... we have found out a lot about tuning the Toyota 1.5l. Air fuel ratios don't effect power on our cars very much, ignition timing DOES affect power big time.
Want to talk about a crazy tune? how about 13.0 air-fuel ratio, 8 Degrees peak of ADVANCED ignition timing tuned with Methanol injection @ 11psi on the Greddy turbo...... that is a hell of a ride. Plus when I drove to Ohio last month I got 374 miles on one tank of gas. On a Dyno-pack dyno that would be about 180whp and 197 torque.
09-11-2008, 05:07 AM
#23
Senior Member
AlphaSquad
SL Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 950
wow those are nice numbers man. you should switch to the aem fic, it intercepts the o2 sensor reading to the ecu apperantly. dezod knows more, hes like fic god lol. close to 200tq must be fun as all hell man.
09-11-2008, 05:25 AM
#24
Senior Member
SL Member
Team ScioNRG
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Rochester, NH
Posts: 812
My dyno tuner made it very clear that before I do anything to attach the greddy pressure sensor, so yes the car was tuned with the pressure sensor.
The Dynapack is a load based dyno that can run a fixed load and variable engine speeds or varialble loads and fixed engine speeds. My dyno runs were done on a fixed load with variable engine speeds.
I agree your tune is not aggressive, it's insane.
And getting 31MPG with all this jazz is great!
The Dynapack is a load based dyno that can run a fixed load and variable engine speeds or varialble loads and fixed engine speeds. My dyno runs were done on a fixed load with variable engine speeds.
I agree your tune is not aggressive, it's insane.
And getting 31MPG with all this jazz is great!
09-12-2008, 01:32 AM
#25
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SL Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: PTuning
Posts: 1,902
Originally Posted by uber-xA-RS2
My dyno tuner made it very clear that before I do anything to attach the greddy pressure sensor, so yes the car was tuned with the pressure sensor.
The Dynapack is a load based dyno that can run a fixed load and variable engine speeds or varialble loads and fixed engine speeds. My dyno runs were done on a fixed load with variable engine speeds.
I agree your tune is not aggressive, it's insane.
And getting 31MPG with all this jazz is great!
The Dynapack is a load based dyno that can run a fixed load and variable engine speeds or varialble loads and fixed engine speeds. My dyno runs were done on a fixed load with variable engine speeds.
I agree your tune is not aggressive, it's insane.
And getting 31MPG with all this jazz is great!
09-27-2008, 04:27 PM
#26
I think you have the answer to your question - with a turbo keeping it under 10lbs is the safe limit and surely 10-12lbs is the max for the s/c - with the s/c you only hit that at redline and your hp lines are very even ....with a turbo you have sudden bolts of hp/trq so keeping it under 10lbs will surely keep you safe. Through the years it seems that if you stay around 8lbs and a good tune you should no issues. Now, if you happen to get that 1% dud engine and you blow a rod due to hp gain ....then ..... whopz. but I havent won the lottery yet so i would call your 8psi mark a good point (and thats what i would do if i had a turbo). Now you could keep it like that for years and if you still want to keep the car, you can always then redo your engine then and turn up the boost. Its good running the car at a given amount of hp/trq till you get tired of it. That way you can upgrade in stages and the car always stays "fun to drive" - i hope that helped you relax a bit. Its hard to take in a lot of new info when you are starting w/ forced induction.
10-24-2008, 12:31 AM
#28
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SL Member
Team ScioNRG
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Rochester, NH
Posts: 812
Tonight I discoverd that 9PSI is the limit.
At 9PSI you start pushing the limits of everything and for me, it was the rod bearings, which I have just spun one.
No fear. It's just an excuse for me rebuild the engine with stronger components and forged parts.
At 9PSI you start pushing the limits of everything and for me, it was the rod bearings, which I have just spun one.
No fear. It's just an excuse for me rebuild the engine with stronger components and forged parts.
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