Negative Camber plates and shims -what, why, how to do- - Page 2 - Scionlife.com



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Old 08-22-2005, 02:05 AM   #21
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Help please: Who has the Cusco kit at lowest price?
I think I'd like to get this in time to install along with the Tein Basic coilovers that are on the way.

Who knows about how many degrees of negative camber can be gotten with the Cusco kit, say, at 1.5" drop?


-----tangental:

I've got tires of 195 width. I would like to get at least three degrees of camber- even to exceed if practical, the camber of Van's rear axle camber plate system.

Why? Not for show, but to put as much footprint on the road in cornering as is practical- and by "practical", I guess I mean: how much tread life sacrifice I'm willing tolerate..

Toe out compensates for the steering force-generated scrub of a canted tire.
Further thought discloses that toe out can not preserve tread life anywhere so well as neutral camber would afford.
This is one of the major reasons that OEM alignments favor towards neutral camber.
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Old 08-22-2005, 04:30 AM   #22
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Your question should be who has it in stock !!! JDMP
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Old 08-22-2005, 04:32 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyBoX
Your question should be who has it in stock !!! JDMP
^^^^^^^And who will also have/has them from their supplier!
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Old 08-22-2005, 06:24 AM   #24
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Sometimes it is better to go to someone you can trust to actualy get them rather than go for the cheapest price. I may have paid more than the price listed above but it was what I had to do. I ordered and they shipped to me within a few weeks as I was told they would. Thanks MyBox.
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Old 08-22-2005, 06:21 PM   #25
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Yes, agreed.

No one would want to get strung along.

This place -says- they will have stock in less than two weeks. I'd wait the two weeks and NOT order based upon promised delivery from a company I do not know yet. http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/sale.../Camber_Plates


Member "Mybox" has stock today.



needing a smilie to express my general condition of knowing/not knowing who-is-what here (i joke)








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Old 08-22-2005, 08:45 PM   #26
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primer stuff excerpted from howstuffworks.com

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed...antiroll.shtml






screenshot by Gadwin Printscreen. Photo hosting by Imageshack.us
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Old 08-23-2005, 01:28 AM   #27
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hornet on flower found this page with excellent show and tell data. It is Echo-based.

http://groups.msn.com/Sorensonbrian/...mberbolts.msnw

exerpt from the page about -Eibach's camber compensation kit.- See, the aim of these eccentric bolts is to -reduce- the n.c. occasioned by lowering the vehicle from stock ride height.

screenshots preview here what you will find at the link... saves a lot of page jumping and makes it easy to find wanted data again in the future.

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Old 08-23-2005, 01:30 AM   #28
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Q: can a bolt kit like this be used to ADD n.c.?
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Old 08-23-2005, 05:54 PM   #29
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A: Yes it can. Depending on how the bolt is set you can add or subtract up to 1.5 degrees of camber. For more you can even use a second set of bolts.
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Old 08-23-2005, 06:09 PM   #30
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slightly off topic: I am not sure if I agree with screen capturing peoples copyrighted webpages for use on another website.
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Old 08-23-2005, 06:19 PM   #31
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perhaps not? Fair Use law I hear bandied about claims it's OK to post excerts -attributed- .

and here, too, I give -links- to the page. I don't suppose the page owners would mind.
I won't do this if it's really a violation of anyone's property right.

However, at present I do not think it is in violation of any law.. or even of any moral code.

thoughts? Is there a lawyer around here to advise us.

I don't want to diminish threads by stripping out all the pictures.
ALL the pictures... no! It makes a new need for mods to police if that were the case and
they have better things to do than this.

cheers,
r
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Old 08-23-2005, 06:21 PM   #32
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It's ok.

That's my site. I'm Brian Sorenson. Hi! :D

Anyone can use my pics, site and info. (I shouild put that on the page somewhere.)
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:56 AM   #33
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good guy PLUS

thank you I will pay ya back somehow...

we all owe you for this giving of yours.


reid
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Old 08-24-2005, 04:23 AM   #34
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No worries. That stuff is what I enjoy doing in spare time.
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Old 09-01-2005, 02:55 AM   #35
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Well, thanks for that. Really great of you, Brian.
====

Preliminary report concerning Van's One Ton Garage rear Camber Kit.

-I just now put it on the -right side only- and took a drive around the block
cutting corners L and R.

Great reduction of understeer on Left turns. The xB SNAPS around corners compared to turning in the other (not cambered yet) direction.
Am elated at the -real improvement in steering response- this half-installation just proved to me.
Now I go on and do the Left side. It's a snap of a job.
That the car tracks normally even with just one side cambered clues us in a rough way that Van has, indeed, got the correct toe-out built into these plates.

Thanks Van!

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Old 09-01-2005, 08:26 AM   #36
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Scifly, did you happen to take a pic of them before you installed?
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Old 09-01-2005, 09:07 AM   #37
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very informative...
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Old 09-02-2005, 06:22 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1epoXyBox
Scifly, did you happen to take a pic of them before you installed?
no, because there's a good stock photo by squirrel of Van's camber plate kit




The plates are tapered in two planes. -One, to make the tilt and -Two, to provide the compensating toe-out, by which to minimize tire scrub.

The dogbone links appear strange at first sight. They are simply washers linked in pairs. They go under the bolt heads.

The dogbones are tapered thin to thick, like the plates. And these parts are all marked with arrows or an L and R, by which to make correct sandwiching easy and sure. The dogbones are tapered so that the entire sandwich is a parallel-faced assembly. A nice touch, that.

The kit is an easy, pleasant installation.

Here's a pic of my ride with steelies sporting under-diameeter F1 tires.


The cambering really really improves the cornering. NOT a bit less body roll, but rather, that the rear wheels now help grip better and -steer the car through a turn-.

You may prove this remarkable difference to yourself by taking a test drive with -just one wheel cambered-
Try some corners. A cornering L-R comparsion makes an objective test. No placebo effect possible.






Tip: It is good practice to retighten bolts after a short period of service. Parts like these always bed down and benefit from another moderate cinching-up.

I do not use torque wrenches for stuff like this. I use feel and moderation and a hand wrench in partnership with a brain.

The next step here is to install the Tein Basic coilover kit.
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Old 09-02-2005, 07:27 PM   #39
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did i miss it or is there a formula that sets up inches lowered =s *of camber needed? i am thinking of lowering my xa 2 or 3 inches. any input? thanks all.
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Old 09-02-2005, 07:53 PM   #40
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To make clear for noobs: Rear wheel camber does not alter when lowering.

As -you- know already, only the front wheels take on some negative camber when lowering.

IF you want to preserve neutral camber at rest then a camber kit must be installed on the front strut upper or lower mounts.

The cheaper way and a fine way is to get cambering bolts. See previous posts by Brian illustrating these inexpensive bolt kits.

IF you want some negative camber at static position, by which to improve the understeer characteristic towards normal, then DON't correct the negative camber. Instead, apply some toe-out to neutralize tire scrub as much as possible.

Cusco makes a pricey "pillowball upper mount" adustable camber plate that serves the same general purpose as cam bolts on the lower mounting, but in a more elegant and easily adjustable way. You can force more negative camber in this way.

I don't know whether I'll force more negative camber into my front wheels yet. I suppose I will try camber bolts first, if I do go that direction. And I'll be toeing out, in any case, after I lower. If I force more N.C. then I must toe-out -more- than otherwise would needed.

I don't know of a formula... but some guys might know how inches of drop correlate to induced negative camber.



Brian Sorenson's (Echo B) DIY page regarding Eibach Camber Bolts
http://groups.msn.com/Sorensonbrian/...mberbolts.msnw
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