Things We Know and Where We are Going
08-06-2009, 01:07 PM
#1
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Scikotics
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Things We Know and Where We are Going
Alright guys, I figured it was time to start a very constructive thread on building a turbo set-up based on what we know and how we are going to get there! This thread is not going to be for flaming the idea, and all advice/help is welcome!
So to start, there is no piggy-back system that will work properly with the xD computer. But we do know that, with the help with uhhhh...that guy from Puerto Rico, that the stock engine/ECU can safely handle 8 lbs of boost with no real problem.
I know he also said tC injectors will fit, but does this mean that any injectors made aftermarket for the tC will also fit? And what about a fuel pump? What good is bigger injectors if you'll overload the fuel pump? Also, will a tC fuel rail work with the xD? I haven't looked, so I have no clue. I doubt it will, but if you can piece together a better fuel delivery system them maybe we can have a better built turbo set up.
Now we come to turbo placement... This is also going to be the subject of debate because there are only a few ways to do this, and all of them work around VERY tight places!! I know that when TurboToyotas was working on the turbo kit for YeloSub and someone else before him, the turbo was placed where the battery sits. So if that route is taken, where do we relocate the battery? Is a thin racing battery an option to mount it under the passenger seat? Or was there somewhere else in the engine compartment that is large enough for the stock battery?
The only other two places for the turbo are at the end of the manifold and at the rear of the xD. I personally think that a remote mount turbo might work pretty well for the xD. Yes, there may be a little bit of lag, but it is something that will have to be dealt with. And for either place (at the bottom of the manifold or end of the exhaust) you'll have to use an oil pump to get oil thru the turbo. The pressure inside the oil line should be enough from the stock oil pump to get oil TO the turbo, but not enough to get it back to the engine. Depending on where the turbo is placed it could add a quart or more to the amount of oil you'll need to safely run the engine.
Another thing I thought about is placing an oil and transmission cooler. Would that be feasible?
Hopefully we can get something seriously going on our own guys! And we can use this thread for information and any questions or advice.
Lets get to it!!
So to start, there is no piggy-back system that will work properly with the xD computer. But we do know that, with the help with uhhhh...that guy from Puerto Rico, that the stock engine/ECU can safely handle 8 lbs of boost with no real problem.
I know he also said tC injectors will fit, but does this mean that any injectors made aftermarket for the tC will also fit? And what about a fuel pump? What good is bigger injectors if you'll overload the fuel pump? Also, will a tC fuel rail work with the xD? I haven't looked, so I have no clue. I doubt it will, but if you can piece together a better fuel delivery system them maybe we can have a better built turbo set up.
Now we come to turbo placement... This is also going to be the subject of debate because there are only a few ways to do this, and all of them work around VERY tight places!! I know that when TurboToyotas was working on the turbo kit for YeloSub and someone else before him, the turbo was placed where the battery sits. So if that route is taken, where do we relocate the battery? Is a thin racing battery an option to mount it under the passenger seat? Or was there somewhere else in the engine compartment that is large enough for the stock battery?
The only other two places for the turbo are at the end of the manifold and at the rear of the xD. I personally think that a remote mount turbo might work pretty well for the xD. Yes, there may be a little bit of lag, but it is something that will have to be dealt with. And for either place (at the bottom of the manifold or end of the exhaust) you'll have to use an oil pump to get oil thru the turbo. The pressure inside the oil line should be enough from the stock oil pump to get oil TO the turbo, but not enough to get it back to the engine. Depending on where the turbo is placed it could add a quart or more to the amount of oil you'll need to safely run the engine.
Another thing I thought about is placing an oil and transmission cooler. Would that be feasible?
Hopefully we can get something seriously going on our own guys! And we can use this thread for information and any questions or advice.
Lets get to it!!
08-06-2009, 06:02 PM
#2
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I would go with a dedicated EMS route, keeping the original ECU to control things the EMS doesn't (or has no outputs for).
For the fuel system, the EMS should be able to drive any injectors, though may need a resistor pack for the low impedance ones. I haven't looked but remember the xD using top feeds. For fuel delivery, gut the entire stock fuel system, replace the in-tank pump with a pickup and run an external pump/filters. Fuel return would be incorporated into the pickup.
Relocating the battery is easy. Stick it in the trunk with a remote battery box and run 0/2ga wires with an electrical cutoff to the front.
You do not need an oil pump to feed the turbo. Either tap the exising oil pump outlet on the block or use an oil filter relocator and feed one of the ports to the turbo with a flow restrictor. It's not like we're running a T88 here. Oil return is to the oil pan and would have to be gravity fed.
I've never run an oil cooler in any of my turbo cars. Tranny cooler is also a waste of resources.
Air to air intercooler is too much a space hog, you can source a A2W intercooler from a celica GT4 and use that behind the existing radiator.
The simple way of doing this all is to import a turbo 1NZ-FE, bits and pieces from the Vitz for mounting, and go at it, controlled by an EMS.
For the fuel system, the EMS should be able to drive any injectors, though may need a resistor pack for the low impedance ones. I haven't looked but remember the xD using top feeds. For fuel delivery, gut the entire stock fuel system, replace the in-tank pump with a pickup and run an external pump/filters. Fuel return would be incorporated into the pickup.
Relocating the battery is easy. Stick it in the trunk with a remote battery box and run 0/2ga wires with an electrical cutoff to the front.
You do not need an oil pump to feed the turbo. Either tap the exising oil pump outlet on the block or use an oil filter relocator and feed one of the ports to the turbo with a flow restrictor. It's not like we're running a T88 here. Oil return is to the oil pan and would have to be gravity fed.
I've never run an oil cooler in any of my turbo cars. Tranny cooler is also a waste of resources.
Air to air intercooler is too much a space hog, you can source a A2W intercooler from a celica GT4 and use that behind the existing radiator.
The simple way of doing this all is to import a turbo 1NZ-FE, bits and pieces from the Vitz for mounting, and go at it, controlled by an EMS.
08-08-2009, 04:05 AM
#3
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Last edited by UnTouChbLe_D; 08-08-2009 at 04:23 AM.
08-08-2009, 10:19 PM
#5
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Scikotics
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Its actually a Lotus Elise engine... THats the only 1.8L Toyota engine that had VVTL-i... Celica GTS was just VVT-i.
Thanks for the post Untouchable! That actually gives me a lot of ideas!
Thanks for the post Untouchable! That actually gives me a lot of ideas!
08-09-2009, 02:44 AM
#7
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Yeah but wasn't the VVTL-i a special engine set-up that Toyota made specifically for the Lotus?
I know that the 2ZZ-FE was a higher output engine, made for the Celica GT-S and the xRS models, but I thought they didn't have variable lift?
Eh, either way, its still a super nice set-up. Hows your xD been running since you blew the engine?
I know that the 2ZZ-FE was a higher output engine, made for the Celica GT-S and the xRS models, but I thought they didn't have variable lift?
Eh, either way, its still a super nice set-up. Hows your xD been running since you blew the engine?
08-09-2009, 12:37 PM
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The 2zz-ge has the variable lift, and is in the gts, xrs, and ect. Check it on wiki.
Do you own two white Scion XDs, or did you swap out the turbo charged 2zr-fe for the 2zz-ge(or switch that)?
Will the light weight pistons hold up to 8 lbs of boost?
What problems did you run into?
Do you own two white Scion XDs, or did you swap out the turbo charged 2zr-fe for the 2zz-ge(or switch that)?
Will the light weight pistons hold up to 8 lbs of boost?
What problems did you run into?
08-09-2009, 09:36 PM
#10
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The light weight pistons will hold 8 psi of boost with the proper tunning, my car wasn't tunned, because i didn't had the ecu diagrams to install the apex-neo if i had it the story was different, it's the same car, i swapped the engine 'cause i was tired of the engine it had lack of parts even the stock ones where difficult to find, i ordered the pistons on january and arrived on may, not even on the US had them stock so had to shipped directly from japan.
the swap was not easy believe it
the swap was not easy believe it
08-10-2009, 05:02 AM
#11
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The light weight pistons will hold 8 psi of boost with the proper tunning, my car wasn't tunned, because i didn't had the ecu diagrams to install the apex-neo if i had it the story was different, it's the same car, i swapped the engine 'cause i was tired of the engine it had lack of parts even the stock ones where difficult to find, i ordered the pistons on january and arrived on may, not even on the US had them stock so had to shipped directly from japan.
the swap was not easy believe it
the swap was not easy believe it
08-10-2009, 08:15 PM
#12
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I already have about 80% of my turbo kit complete and hopefully will start the installation in a couple of weeks.
A lot of discussion doesn't lead to anything! If anyone wants to go turbo the info is out there is just a matter doing it.
The right turbo, 2AZ injectors, fuel and timing management and the 2ZR-FE should output close to 200whp @ 8psi. No need to upgrade internals or the fuel system... as long as you are able to tune it properly this engine should be MORE than able to take 8psi.
The OP said that there were no Piggy backs compatible with this car...
I wonder who has even tried it to be able to say that...
The other Scions have been running turbo'ed for years why shouldn't be able to do the same?
The 1NZ has held 8psi of boost in multiple aplications.
In regards to engine management the best show is the AEM FIC. Is just a matter of giving it to a capable tuner.
I will try the FIC and see how it goes...
The turbo manifold can be pieced for around $300. The only part that would have to be custom made is the downpipe. All the rest is pretty easy to come by.
I'm shotting for an under $2500 total cost including the tuning.
A lot of discussion doesn't lead to anything! If anyone wants to go turbo the info is out there is just a matter doing it.
The right turbo, 2AZ injectors, fuel and timing management and the 2ZR-FE should output close to 200whp @ 8psi. No need to upgrade internals or the fuel system... as long as you are able to tune it properly this engine should be MORE than able to take 8psi.
The OP said that there were no Piggy backs compatible with this car...
I wonder who has even tried it to be able to say that...
The other Scions have been running turbo'ed for years why shouldn't be able to do the same?
The 1NZ has held 8psi of boost in multiple aplications.
In regards to engine management the best show is the AEM FIC. Is just a matter of giving it to a capable tuner.
I will try the FIC and see how it goes...
The turbo manifold can be pieced for around $300. The only part that would have to be custom made is the downpipe. All the rest is pretty easy to come by.
I'm shotting for an under $2500 total cost including the tuning.
08-10-2009, 09:35 PM
#13
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Wagonistas
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I already have about 80% of my turbo kit complete and hopefully will start the installation in a couple of weeks.
A lot of discussion doesn't lead to anything! If anyone wants to go turbo the info is out there is just a matter doing it.
The right turbo, 2AZ injectors, fuel and timing management and the 2ZR-FE should output close to 200whp @ 8psi. No need to upgrade internals or the fuel system... as long as you are able to tune it properly this engine should be MORE than able to take 8psi.
The OP said that there were no Piggy backs compatible with this car...
I wonder who has even tried it to be able to say that...
The other Scions have been running turbo'ed for years why shouldn't be able to do the same?
The 1NZ has held 8psi of boost in multiple aplications.
In regards to engine management the best show is the AEM FIC. Is just a matter of giving it to a capable tuner.
I will try the FIC and see how it goes...
The turbo manifold can be pieced for around $300. The only part that would have to be custom made is the downpipe. All the rest is pretty easy to come by.
I'm shotting for an under $2500 total cost including the tuning.
A lot of discussion doesn't lead to anything! If anyone wants to go turbo the info is out there is just a matter doing it.
The right turbo, 2AZ injectors, fuel and timing management and the 2ZR-FE should output close to 200whp @ 8psi. No need to upgrade internals or the fuel system... as long as you are able to tune it properly this engine should be MORE than able to take 8psi.
The OP said that there were no Piggy backs compatible with this car...
I wonder who has even tried it to be able to say that...
The other Scions have been running turbo'ed for years why shouldn't be able to do the same?
The 1NZ has held 8psi of boost in multiple aplications.
In regards to engine management the best show is the AEM FIC. Is just a matter of giving it to a capable tuner.
I will try the FIC and see how it goes...
The turbo manifold can be pieced for around $300. The only part that would have to be custom made is the downpipe. All the rest is pretty easy to come by.
I'm shotting for an under $2500 total cost including the tuning.
08-11-2009, 01:53 AM
#15
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Scikotics
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So the 2AZ injectors will for sure fit? What about upping the injectors to a set of RC's? And has anyone taken a look at the fuel pump to see what could be done there? I know that breadbooze suggested gutting the whole thing...
08-11-2009, 02:09 AM
#16
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Wagonistas
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Yes the stock tC injectors, 370cc, will fit...That's what Todd was going to use on mine for my turbo application...I got mine for sale in the classifieds if anyone needs them...I paid $100 from Todd but have them listed for $75 shipped...
08-11-2009, 04:27 PM
#17
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The 2AZ injectors should be good for around 200whp according to the TC guys.
Regarding the RC injectors someone would have to do a test fit... on the Yaris I know the RC's didn't work. There was a fitment issue with the OE fuel rail.
The problem is that going with RC injectors means that you are going much bigger than 370cc and that only means problems unless your engine management is really capable of handling them.
I say that 370cc are good for a start!
The fuel pump should be more than able to flow that much fuel (isn't that much!). The OE pump is located inside the tank but it can be easily replaced by a Walbro when we reach the limit of the OE pump. Something that won't happen at 8 or 10psi. I've see it repalced on a Yaris and is straight forward.
That's what I paid for mine...
08-12-2009, 08:05 PM
#19
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alot of basic knowledge from the Honda scene can help the figures as my friend has a turbo D16. Built head and 8psi put him in the 190 category. NOW, honestly, how more power does one need? that with the weight of the car will get it moving really quick. I mean anymore power and you'll be doing nothing but spinning the tires ala Eclipse GS-t style. Shoot, I'd build it to hold more power and de-tune it to 6psi til a engine management system comes out. if ever should one come out. another factor is to get the car to handle well. that is the one thing I don;t like about the car is it's poor handling capability. again, power is nothing of the car can't move it around easily. the car can barely move itself around with it's stock HP. it's an understeering nightmare for me.