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Old 02-01-2009, 12:13 AM   #41
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I can't figure out how to post pics from by Blackberry, so you all have to wait (and I know you're on the edge of your seat).
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Old 02-01-2009, 01:15 AM   #42
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Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 02-01-2009, 01:37 AM   #43
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looks like you could fit your xD in there




nah

cool pic!
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Old 02-01-2009, 02:13 AM   #44
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This thread is just plain WRONG!
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Old 02-01-2009, 03:25 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAGE
This thread is just plain WRONG!
Huh???
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:13 AM   #46
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The trailer looks a lot bigger in that pic because it is closer to the camera. It's only a 4x8 trailer... about 900 pounds empty... probably less than 1,500 pounds with all of our stuff in it. It towed beautifully... we could hardly tell it was back there. We got about 30 MPG while cruising at 60 MPH, and it wasn't level ground.

Renting a trailer occasionally is great if you have a small car. It costs as little as $15 to rent a trailer like that from Uhaul for a day. It cost us $37 for two days and a one-way rental (picked up in PA, dropped off in MD). It would cost more than that in fuel alone if we had used a pickup truck.
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:07 AM   #47
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Sorry for the crappy phone pic above. Now that I'm home, I can post a better one.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:20 AM   #48
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Awesome!

I'm so going to look in to this for when I move out of state. I don't have that much to bring with me actually so that might be a good idea instead of shipping my stuff after me.
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Old 02-03-2009, 05:12 PM   #49
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wow....who would have thought our little cars could tow..lol...I have been thinking about a hitch for mine. I have a 20 year old Escort that according to the manual can tow 1000 lbs. Our car should be fine for the same with the correct hitch. I think it's awesome you tested it out for Us.
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Old 02-03-2009, 05:17 PM   #50
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The hitch is rated at 2,000 pounds with a 200lb tongue weight. Following safe towing procedures, most small cars can tow that much. I used to have a Mercedes 240D that was rated (according to the manual) to tow 1,200 pounds (I'm pretty sure). I towed more than 4,000 pounds with it... including launching a 21-foot sailboat. That car only put out 67 horsepower, too. I used to tow a 2,500lb camper at 75 MPH with no problem.
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Old 02-03-2009, 05:31 PM   #51
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there is always a "cushion" for safety's sake in what they say a car will be able to tow anyway...I am just thinking about the times I need to run down to buy a sheet of plywood, etc. or mulch for a home project and a small trailer would be great instead of trying to find someone with a truck or putting something dirty and nasty in my car.
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Old 02-04-2009, 02:14 AM   #52
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Exactly... and like I mentioned above, Uhaul rents trailers for as little as $15 a day. That's cheaper than borrowing s friend's truck and returning it with a full tank!
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Old 02-09-2009, 09:37 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbrew
The trailer looks a lot bigger in that pic because it is closer to the camera. It's only a 4x8 trailer... about 900 pounds empty... probably less than 1,500 pounds with all of our stuff in it. It towed beautifully... we could hardly tell it was back there. We got about 30 MPG while cruising at 60 MPH, and it wasn't level ground.

Renting a trailer occasionally is great if you have a small car. It costs as little as $15 to rent a trailer like that from Uhaul for a day. It cost us $37 for two days and a one-way rental (picked up in PA, dropped off in MD). It would cost more than that in fuel alone if we had used a pickup truck.
I towed a trailer just like that one yesterday - 800 miles. I could definitely tell the trailer was there. The darned thing is so noisy! But yes, no problem towing it, though passing an 18-wheeler required a bit more planning.
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Old 02-09-2009, 11:51 PM   #54
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You'll cut the noise a lot if you use a 'hitch silencer'. It keeps your ball mount from rattling in the receiver. It won't eliminate the noise, but it'll reduce it, as well as reducing unwanted movement and stress at the receiver.
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Old 02-10-2009, 09:02 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbrew
You'll cut the noise a lot if you use a 'hitch silencer'. It keeps your ball mount from rattling in the receiver. It won't eliminate the noise, but it'll reduce it, as well as reducing unwanted movement and stress at the receiver.
I need to check the hitch mounting bolts too. I think I may not have torqued those enough. Fortunately, I don't tow a trailer too often.
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Old 02-10-2009, 09:42 PM   #56
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Two points of order, from someone who owns the entire MODERN MARVELS: ENGINEERING DISASTERS DVD box set

POINT A: While the add-on rear rack is a great idea, I question the accuracy of the "stand in it" test. Frankly, it concerns me that the hitch flexed a little when you stood in it, for two reasons:

1) If I'm not mistaken, airflow coming over the roof of the car is going to push directly downward on whatever cargo you have, potentially increasing the load past the rig's limits, and

2) Hitting even small bumps at-speed will greatly increase the forces of your luggage. Maybe a real-live mathemitician (or a physicist) can weigh in here, but I imagine hitting a pavement imperfection at 65 MPH will double or triple the downward force of your cargo.

I'm not saying these factors will be the death of your rig, but I wanted to point them out as something to keep in mind. I'm hoping someone with a little more experience will weigh in (ha!). Sorry if I sound like i'm lecturing.

POINT B: Something I'd like to point out from The Great Trailer Debate on the xB1 boards: just because people have towed trailers is STILL not proof that the car is capable of doing so.

Even for those of us who own early-release Gen 1's, it's still waayyy too early to determine the long-term effects of towing on the powertrain. The first-gen xB has been proven to be problem-free for at least 150K and probably more like 250K, but I haven't seen any trailer-hitch owners get NEAR that point yet. It's still entirely possible that they're going to start dropping transmissions at 90K. Personally, I'm going to wait and see.

For those of you stating that European cars are rated for much more: okay, how much are our sister cars rated? Every vehicle in the lineup has an identical car that was produced for the Japanese Domestic Market. What are THEY rated for? I would put much more stock in those numbers than anecdotes about how European cars are "always" rated to tow more than US cars.

If someone can provide that last bit of information (which should be easy, but I'm lazy), I'm willing to listen, but until then...seems like a real stupid idea.

Remember, it's YOU that is going to have to pay for any ill effects suffered here. Saying "some guy on the Internet said it would be fine" is not going to get Toyota to pay for a new tranny.
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Old 02-11-2009, 02:42 PM   #57
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ZOMGXB, the point of me standing on the rack and bouncing up and down was to simulate what would happen with a heavy load and a bouncy road. My weight is more than it is rated for, so some flexing would be expected. That's torsion of the square tubing of the receiver, not the frame of the car flexing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOMGXB
just because people have towed trailers is STILL not proof that the car is capable of doing so.
No... it proves that it is capable. It does not prove that it won't cause long term damage, but based on my years of experience towing many different loads with many different cars, I suspect that it won't cause any notable damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOMGXB
Every vehicle in the lineup has an identical car that was produced for the Japanese Domestic Market. What are THEY rated for?
I'm quessing that Toyota does not suggest towing with them. That doesn't mean they are rated to tow ZERO pounds. I doubt that they have some sort of test procedure or machine that they hook up to the car and it spits out a piece of paper that says: "This car is rated to tow ZERO pounds." Of course that is not the case. Toyota simply does not want to be responsible (understandably) for what might happen to the car, the towed load, or other people on the road if something goes wrong. Something can always go wrong, even with the safest setup.

This argument is really getting old. What is so magical about a VW Golf that gives it the ability to tow 3,000 pounds when a Toyota Camry can't tow a single pound? Not even a bike rack? Toyota does not want to give a tow rating. It is as simple as that. Just because there is a speed limit sign on the highway, does that mean your car is incapable of going faster? No... it means they don't want you to. Can you? Yes. Should you? That's up to you. Hopefully you do it safely... just like towing a trailer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOMGXD
Remember, it's YOU that is going to have to pay for any ill effects suffered here. Saying "some guy on the Internet said it would be fine" is not going to get Toyota to pay for a new tranny.
Who would go after Toyota when they clearly say that they don't recommend towing? Of course it is up to me. Same as if you change your oil and screw it up. You can't go after Toyota because you forgot to put your drain plug back in. Pretty much everything you do to or with your car is your responsibility.

As far as whether or not towing is harder on the drivetraine... of course it is! So is having two people instead of one in the car... or three instead of two... or a roof rack... or driving at a slightly higher speed... or running with wider tires... etc...

Everything you do with your car takes it a little closer to its death. Just driving down the road is taking a toll on all the components. Some people go out of their way to protect the engine and trans from damage, like using good quality synthetic oil and synthetic trans fluid. By the way, I would never tow with an automatic xD... well, maybe if it had a trans cooler and a really good fluid. That's one reason I wanted a 5-speed. Again, based on experience (towing with 4-cylinder cars that had well over 300,000 miles on the original engine and trans), I doubt that the Toyota components will fail prematurely from towing a light trailer once or twice a year. I could be wrong... and I am willing to pay for a new trans or whatever might be needed. It's worth it to me. Probably less risky than putting on some cheap cone air filter from Pep Boys and running around with the cheapest motor oil you can find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOMGXD
If someone can provide that last bit of information (which should be easy, but I'm lazy), I'm willing to listen, but until then...seems like a real stupid idea.
As far as the drivetrain being able to handle it, just look at Toyota trucks in other countries. The Toyota Hilux (Tacoma in the US) uses a 134hp 2.0 liter VVTi engine in some models that is rated to tow 3,300 pounds. That's on top of a 3,322 curb weight. The gross combined weight rating (truck, trailer, and everything else in the truck and trailer) is 9.075 pounds.

So, that's a Toyota engine that is VERY similar to the one in our xD's that is rated to tow a LOT more than I am towing. I couldn't figure out what trans they are putting in that truck... anybody know?
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Old 02-11-2009, 02:52 PM   #58
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And for another example, the Toyota Ses'fikile mini bus uses a similar 148 HP VVTi engine and not only carries 14 passengers, it has a 10,010 pound combined weight limit! Obviously, this mini bus is going to have a strong chassis (ladder frame, I'm guessing), but the little engine can handle that load. I've been in mini buses like this in small mountainous countries... and those engines work HARD pulling a load of people and cargo up those hills. You'd think they would die... but those things have lots of miles on them. The doors fall off before the engines die.
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Old 02-12-2009, 04:27 PM   #59
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YOU think this argument is getting old? I'VE been listening to this since 2004.

Look, I'm not trying to prove you wrong here. I'm trying to help our fellow forum-goers make an educated decision. In a thread filled with "YEP IT WORKS!" I wanted to post a little reminder that to tow is to proceed into an Out-Of-Warranty-Zone. You may be prepared to pay for a new transmission (!), but most folks aren't. Hence, my devil's advocacy.

Besides, I wasn't talking to you specifically...except about the rear-rack, and you indicated you have considered the factors I asked about. The rest of that post was addressed to a general "you people who say towing is fine." There are those who insist an auto xA can tow a ten-foot U-Haul; the rest was directed at them.

Moving on. As diligent as your answers are, these are all "similar" cars...none of them is the same car. The Hilux isn't even in the same vehicle class. And that one actually works against the "they water them down for the U.S." theory - base Tacomas are rated - in the U.S. - for 3500 pounds.

Sooooooooooooo, in pursuit of a definitive answer, instead of internet hearsay, I DID go looking for tow-ratings of our cars' Japanese counterparts. ...... and while I CAN find information on the 1st and 2nd-gen Ist (JDM xA and xD), the bB (xB1) and Corolla Rumion (xB2).....it's all in Japanese.

I can't find an English-speaking market that sells the Ist (and the x-cars are Japan and U.S. only). And I sure as heck don't speak Japanese. So until we locate a bilingual forum-goer who wants to check out Toyota's website for us, I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

BTW, I DO believe you that these cars are capable of doing FAR more than the manufacturer will ever admit to...I'm just unwilling to try it. I'm going to drive this thing for another decade! Also, I'd rather present the whole picture to Internet Goers, so they can make informed decisions also.

Cheers!
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Old 02-12-2009, 07:05 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOMGXB
And that one actually works against the "they water them down for the U.S." theory - base Tacomas are rated - in the U.S. - for 3500 pounds.
The US doesn't even get the 2.0 engine for the Tacoma, so it is not a direct comparison. I was comparing engine size vs. towing capacity.

I know what you are saying... and I've heard the same argument in other forums by other people who don't tow anything with their cars and never will. The argument starts off harsh, as in "You can't tow anything! It says so in the book! Show me where it says otherwise!" and then it softens to "Well, I was just trying to show the other side. I'm just trying to help people get all the info. I'm just trying to save people from engine/trans damage."

Well, here's the other side to that: Show me someone who has engine or transmission damage from towing a trailer with a Scion. If it's an auto trans without a cooler, I would believe it. If you can't, you don't really have an argument... you have guesses and assumptions. I am actually towing trailers with my xD and have no damage to show for it. I have not encountered any difficulties or dangerous situations while towing. Although you mean well by warning people of possible dangers, I actually have more information to back up my side of the argument.

Again (and people will ignore this part), I am not saying you can tow whatever you want and never have a problem. You have to know your limitations and the limitations of your vehicle and trailer. You have to drive carefully and take precautions to prepare your vehicle safe towing. If you do this, you are probably not hurting your car any more than a crappy aftermarket air filter and no-name engine oil.

This information comes from someone who has towed a lot of things behind a number of small cars without ANY problems. Would I run a landscaping company and tow a 2,000 pound trailer behind my xD all day every day? Of course not! However, for occasional use it is perfectly acceptable.
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FOR SALE: xD original shift boot for 5-speed. New condition.
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