SimonTrent

i would like to know when is the breaking/bending point of the piston rods and other parts under boost.

blown_xa

I'd have to say that im an expert in this area. If you plan on keeping the motor together for a long time I wouldnt exceed 8 psi with the Greddy Turbine or HKS.

swartzautoman

iTrader: (3)

yep.......id agree 8 psi would be ok.
now if you were to build up the inside you would be able to do around 14 psi without touching the fuel system.

SimonTrent

ty, that is what i wanted to know

captdownshift

i'm planning on running 7-8lb on stock internals on a k03 sport, not that it helps, but i'll let you know how it goes (or blows)

Maguyver

do you guys know what the stock greedy kit comes boosting

vettereddie

The Greddy turbo manual says it's set at between .3 and .4 kg/cm2. That's 4.27 - 5.69 psi.

I had the supercharger and ended up breaking a rod with it set at 7 psi. Can't say if it was directly from the s/c since I was just cruising at 60 MPH when it happened, but the stock rods are toothpicks. I think either the head gasket leaked or there was a void in the rod casting, but can't prove anything. The dealer blamed it on the cold air intake hydrolocking, but the roads were dry that day. There wasn't enough oil or coolant left afterwards to be able to take a sample.

The turbo should stress the engine, or at least the rods less since loss isn't transferred to the crankshaft, just in higher EGT and back pressure before the turbo. I'd recommend a blow off valve though to extend the life of the turbo, it doesn't come with one. They also have an intercooler upgrade available.

I'm building a new block now, should run around $1400 for me to do it with coated pistons, new rods and bearings.

Cinderblock

7-8 psi is what im going ot run. im very surprised you didnt get flamed for not using the search though, theirs tons of this same exact question, if it isnt already, one should be sticky'd

paul_dezod

Well that will depend HEAVILY on tuning and octane used. It's almost impossible to answer.

yellowxhoodie

iTrader: (16)

x1,000,000

also how often you "track" it. (or if you just beat on it alot)

captdownshift

umm no, with a proper tune ona dyno holding rpms and adjusting fueling with stand alone for proper air fuel across the fuel rpm range how often you "track" it will not matter. a proper setup without lubrication or fueling issues shouldn't have any issues no matter how the driver drives the car.

now if you have a separate 100 octane map with higher boost levels etc then thats a different story, in theory the same princinpals apply, but i dont always trust every 100 octane supplier. (blown too many vtcars rally subaru engines from poor quality fuel deliveries at rally events, that are trucked in)

blown_xa

i think the thread question would be best asked "what is the hp limit on a stock block?" assuming a tune detonation free, 130whp is the limit for a realiable set-up on a dyno-dynamics dyno... believe me, i know this. Anything above that mark, might be ok for a few quarter mile passes here and there, but a few laps around a road coarse holding at high rpms the motor won't hold as I found out last motor I blew.

These motors are VERY fragile, the motor will blow before the spark plug reads hint of detonation.

uber-xA-RS2

The most important part of ANY forced induction set-up is your tune.

My turbo xA has been tuned on the stock 1NZFE with 9psi and I have been running that for the better part of two months and not one issue has come from it. The longevity of your turbo or supercharged engine is determined by how you drive it and the quality of your tune.

captdownshift

sidenote, 157 WHP and 165WTQ in an xa with suspension must be a HOOT!!! you're looking at 170-5 ish at the flywheel so you munstered up a 70-75% increase in power i'd love more info on EM, who did the tune and any other mods you did to the greddy kit

Maguyver

Did u upgrade the fuel like a Perrine fuel rail and tC injectors stuff like that. I’ve been running a used greedy kit on my car for like 2-3 months and still haven’t hooked up the boost gage or dyno'd it, to tell you the truth I get a little scared when I step on it

captdownshift

i'm sure tc injectors are involved, i'd ef hope so, as well as a wideband o2

uber-xA-RS2

Since I have peaked some interest, here are the nitty gritty details on the setup I'm running.

Turbo:
GReddy Scion xB Turbo Kit (Mitsubishi TF-035 14GK turbo)
GReddy Front Mount Intercooler
Custom charge piping, I did not use the stock GReddy routing.
Turbo Downpipe flange remounted to match up to the stock exhaust flange.
Fully custom built 2.25 inch exhaust, with a highflow cat, resonator and coupled to the TRD exhaust.
GReddy Type RS BOV set up as atmospheric dump


Mechanical Bits:
Perrin Fuel Rail
Scion tC fuel injectors
GReddy Oil Filter Adaptor block
Ingalls ETD

Electronics:
GReddy eManage Ultimate
GReddy Profec B Spec II Electronic Boost Controller
Innovate Motorsports LC-1 Wideband AFC (mounted in the downpipe)
Defi Blue Racer Boost, Oil PSI, EGT gauges
GReddy Automatic Turbo Timer

The car has been fully tuned on a Dynapack 2000 Chassis dyno. Tuning the eManage took about four hours and the car has been tuned for half and full throttle to maintain economy when not in boost. The maps were fully written by the tuner who also happens to be a software engineer.

My tuner is Holyroller Dyno/Ballistic Motorsports of Bow, NH

The injectors are the stock Scion tC 370cc injectors running at 89% duty cycle.

Ambient air temps on the final pull was 83 degrees, resulting in 157Whp and 165Wtq

I have had the opportunity to drive the car in cooler weather and I suspect at least another 10whp with the lower air charge temps.

Car gets to 60MPH shifting into third and from there on it's a scary ride


There are a few quirks as to be expected.

The tune on this car is insanely aggressive. Fully mapped for fuel consumption up to 6500 RPM and full ignition adjustments throughout the entire RPM range. The negative result is that the car runs a little rough on first start up and warmup requiring some monitoring. Once at operating temps the car runs like a stock xA.

The engine runs very high oil pressure when in open loop 80-100 PSI at the filter, This has had a negative effect on the turbo as I do burn a miniscule amount of oil under full power.

The stock cooling system doesn't like being turbochaged at all. Upgrades are planned.

Airflow into the engine bay is minimal, to reduce stress on the other components addition airflow is needed. Do what ever it takes to get extra cool air in there.


So in the end is it worh 4500-6000 to turbocharge the xA or xB1

HELL YES!!

captdownshift

for airflow into the engine bay have you looked into a brake ducting setup, but re route the plumbing to dump the air near the airbox, IC or even exhaust manifold/turbo?

myles at racecompengineering could prob help you set that up (although i'm sure your tuner could as well as they they seem on the ball)

that is quite the aggressive setup, but you have it monitored and tuned correctly, no guesswork. and the right system upgrades were made to get where you are relatively safe, and you know what bits to get next.

i wonder if running an oil filter bypass would help with the oil pressure, that together with a deeper pan would raise oil capacity which would aid with cooling as well (we have very very small oil pans). which should help keep everything happy, including the turbo. for comparison, there is a reason porsche 993/996/977s and audi rs4's take 9-10 qts of oil, creating another 1.5-2 quarts of oil capacity should help with 2 of the limiting factors

not that where you are now isn't quite impressive that has to be an absolute blast.

vettereddie

Anyone know about oil pump upgrades? if you can up the capacity you may be able to drop the pressure a bit and not get blowby through the seals. I'm hoping I can get better cooling in the xB with it's huge grill openings. A vented hood would be nice as well.

captdownshift

it's tough to find a safety net when you're already at 4 limiting factors (fuel, spark, oil pressure and cooling)

fuel is a fairly easy fix, even bigger injectors and a walbro. spark can get tricky, you hope an MSD or AEM box and re-tuning will do it, but tuning does spark to get tougher then, it's much easier to tune fuel then spark imo.

the oil capacity and ducting will help with the cooling and oil pressure and bit but won't help too much more on the pressure side, without a bypass. for an oil pump upgrade that'd be entering into some experimentation...

and that's before you get into potential issues of connecting rod strength. things get very very expensive (nearing 10k when all said and done) beyond his current state, and that's dealing with known factors.

vettereddie, i know you have a built block, so for you the question is as mentioned, oil pressure and supply, i'd almost be tempting to do something crazy like gasket match the plumbing on the pump to see if flow or the actual mechcanic pump action is the limiting factor. that's something i'd only consider if i had a spare pump available.

i dont have a toyota parts catalog here at work or spec sheet or else i'd start researching to see if any larger capacity toyota engines have similar size/mounting specs on their oil pumps to see if raiding the corporate parts bin is an option. i'll try to get in touch with some friends at corporate to get some specs and maybe some loaner pieces to try on for fitment.