strut bars
#7
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ADJUS...Q5fAccessories
I think thats what hes talking about. I wouldn't get it, I don't really see how it would do anything but be annoying.
I think thats what hes talking about. I wouldn't get it, I don't really see how it would do anything but be annoying.
#8
Just my opinion, you may want to consider reinforcing something outside of the safety cage first. Strut tower bars, bushings, suspension components (sway, spring, shock), etc are all much more immediately noticeable and effective.
If you're at the point where you need chassis stiffening INSIDE the passenger cabin, then you're racing seriously enough to need a full welded-in roll cage.
If you're at the point where you need chassis stiffening INSIDE the passenger cabin, then you're racing seriously enough to need a full welded-in roll cage.
#9
Originally Posted by senseiturtle
Just my opinion, you may want to consider reinforcing something outside of the safety cage first. Strut tower bars, bushings, suspension components (sway, spring, shock), etc are all much more immediately noticeable and effective.
If you're at the point where you need chassis stiffening INSIDE the passenger cabin, then you're racing seriously enough to need a full welded-in roll cage.
If you're at the point where you need chassis stiffening INSIDE the passenger cabin, then you're racing seriously enough to need a full welded-in roll cage.
#10
Originally Posted by blackcherry07
i agree on all but the bold....our strut towers are so close to the firewalll that it offers our stiffening....
The gist of the argument is simply that if you consider the lateral forces imposed by a cornering car at the tire, that this force applies a torque against the 3 bolts at the top of the suspension unit, with a value which can reach 3,000+ ft-lbs during a heavy static turn. The impulse forces sustained during potholes are even greater. With this in mind, draw out a force diagram, and it's very simple to see that a FSTB will go a long way in resisting positive camber gain. I would be happy to link articles if you still don't believe me.
It's also interesting to me that people are pushing the Ingalls rear strut braces, which claim to do the same thing, but do so RIGHT ON TOP of the MASSIVE section of rear frame. See, those suspension bolts are directly incorporated into the frame... and that bar runs about 1.5 inches directly above it across the cross-section of the car.
In the front, the suspension bolts are NOT incorporated into the frame, to the same degree. It's about 4 inches from the firewall. In addition, it's arguably more important than the rear in terms of maintaining camber through the turn, since you're relying on those front tires to do ALL of the turning, and ALL of the accelerating.
I got my front strut tower bar as a last piece to my STS puzzle, just sort of as an afterthought. I immediately gained a lot of respect for it. In fact, it's managed to calm down my rear rend, which gets really loose at the end of a fast slalom... i tend to exit those semi-sideways, just from the continual loss of composure throwing it side-to-side.
#11
Originally Posted by senseiturtle
Originally Posted by blackcherry07
i agree on all but the bold....our strut towers are so close to the firewalll that it offers our stiffening....
The gist of the argument is simply that if you consider the lateral forces imposed by a cornering car at the tire, that this force applies a torque against the 3 bolts at the top of the suspension unit, with a value which can reach 3,000+ ft-lbs during a heavy static turn. The impulse forces sustained during potholes are even greater. With this in mind, draw out a force diagram, and it's very simple to see that a FSTB will go a long way in resisting positive camber gain. I would be happy to link articles if you still don't believe me.
It's also interesting to me that people are pushing the Ingalls rear strut braces, which claim to do the same thing, but do so RIGHT ON TOP of the MASSIVE section of rear frame. See, those suspension bolts are directly incorporated into the frame... and that bar runs about 1.5 inches directly above it across the cross-section of the car.
In the front, the suspension bolts are NOT incorporated into the frame, to the same degree. It's about 4 inches from the firewall. In addition, it's arguably more important than the rear in terms of maintaining camber through the turn, since you're relying on those front tires to do ALL of the turning, and ALL of the accelerating.
I got my front strut tower bar as a last piece to my STS puzzle, just sort of as an afterthought. I immediately gained a lot of respect for it. In fact, it's managed to calm down my rear rend, which gets really loose at the end of a fast slalom... i tend to exit those semi-sideways, just from the continual loss of composure throwing it side-to-side.
also shoot me a link to your thread i would love to read it....i must have missed it...
#13
Originally Posted by blackcherry07
ok...well i cant ignore your proven research at all and i stand corrected....but now i ask....would it not be better to use a triangulated bar?? if what you are saying is that the strut tower is far enough from the firewall to need to be re-inforced then we should use a triangulated bar not just a cross bar...
also shoot me a link to your thread i would love to read it....i must have missed it...
also shoot me a link to your thread i would love to read it....i must have missed it...
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=245938
or can be searched as the only result for "rethinking strut"
I don't want to give the impression that it's the "end-all, be-all" modification... and certain manufacturers of poorly-welded, or not-even-welded models are certainly lacking any and all benefit from a suspension standpoint (bling only).... but a well-constructed unit DOES have some merit, and I don't regret it on my car.
The only mod I truly regret, is the header, which I got annoyed with and gave away. Also put me in SM... but that's another story.
#17
Originally Posted by highvoltage1
Ok sensaiturtle so on installing a FSTB is it best to jack up the vehicle to install or leave on the ground, or one side at a time?
#18
Originally Posted by senseiturtle
Originally Posted by highvoltage1
Ok sensaiturtle so on installing a FSTB is it best to jack up the vehicle to install or leave on the ground, or one side at a time?
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