Sway Bars Discussion
#1
Sway Bars Discussion
Name the company and the sizes of the bar and I will add them to my post. When I do that I will delete the post it came from just to keep it cleaned up in here and easy to read in here.
C-ONE FSB = 28 mm
WhiteLines RSB = 22mm
Hotchkis FSB = 28.575mm
Hotchkis RSB = 12.7mm (addon bar)
Progress RSB = 22mm (addon bar)
C-ONE FSB = 28 mm
WhiteLines RSB = 22mm
Hotchkis FSB = 28.575mm
Hotchkis RSB = 12.7mm (addon bar)
Progress RSB = 22mm (addon bar)
Last edited by MR_LUV; 07-12-2020 at 08:30 PM. Reason: Awarded 15 Yr Badge
#2
Re: Sway Bars 101
Originally Posted by kwicslvr
Name the company and the sizes of the bar and I will add them to my post. When I do that I will delete the post it came from just to keep it cleaned up in here and easy to read in here.
Rear Sway Bar = WhiteLines 22mm
#4
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Originally Posted by Buebie
I thought this was a more in depth description of how to install. What is this threads intentions??
#5
It was created because of all the different bars available out there. We need to find out all the different sizes so when people are looking for the sizes they can find them all in one thread. Eventually it can be moved to the FAQ section which is were the install should be also.
#9
can you also add wether they are solid or hollow?
That definately makes a difference and I remember seeing somewhere that some are hollow. It should help to differenciate between the many 22mm rears.
That definately makes a difference and I remember seeing somewhere that some are hollow. It should help to differenciate between the many 22mm rears.
#10
It's my understanding that front anti-sway bars actaully contribute to understeer. They force you to back off on the speed in a turn before you are actually out of lateral grip. It makes the car "safer" for less experienced drivers, which is why most cars come with them, but they don't actually improve handling beyond a certain point.
I learned a lot of what I know from a VW/Audi/Porsche suspension expert up in MA (Dick Shine) and he doesn't include front sway bars in any of the custom suspension systems he built. He usually recommends leaving the stock bar, definitely NOT a thicker front bar. He suggests removing the front bar altogther in some cases for experienced drivers.
Even though he was mainly a VW guy, its relevant here:
The xB is a front engine, front wheel drive compact with Mac Struts in the front and a torsion beam rear suspension.... and so are every single VW Jetta, Golf and New Beetle on the road. ;)
Here's how he explains it:
"Volkswagens have between 65-70% of their weight over their front wheels which causes understeer. Larger front sway bars cause more understeer and unload the inside front wheel during hard cornering resulting in wheelspin. This is a major handicap, especially when autocrossing. Shine Racing suspensions are designed to minimize understeer and increase grip."
I think that the xB has a better weight distribution ratio than that, but, like any FWD, front engine car, the balance of the weight is over the front wheels with the engine, transaxle etc..
I learned a lot of what I know from a VW/Audi/Porsche suspension expert up in MA (Dick Shine) and he doesn't include front sway bars in any of the custom suspension systems he built. He usually recommends leaving the stock bar, definitely NOT a thicker front bar. He suggests removing the front bar altogther in some cases for experienced drivers.
Even though he was mainly a VW guy, its relevant here:
The xB is a front engine, front wheel drive compact with Mac Struts in the front and a torsion beam rear suspension.... and so are every single VW Jetta, Golf and New Beetle on the road. ;)
Here's how he explains it:
"Volkswagens have between 65-70% of their weight over their front wheels which causes understeer. Larger front sway bars cause more understeer and unload the inside front wheel during hard cornering resulting in wheelspin. This is a major handicap, especially when autocrossing. Shine Racing suspensions are designed to minimize understeer and increase grip."
I think that the xB has a better weight distribution ratio than that, but, like any FWD, front engine car, the balance of the weight is over the front wheels with the engine, transaxle etc..
#12
yes.
I've done that in my xA and in my Z. For both, I have the stock front sway bar, and the rear with the stiffest I could find or set to the stiffest stetting.
At the moment, in the xA, I can't get into oversteer unless I trailbrake oversteer. I can't throttle oversteer yet, so I'm thinking I could actually stiffen the rear more. When I would trailbrake oversteer, it needed to be done really really deep into the turn and I'd have to really really try.
Taking out the front sway bar isn't a bad idea! Man, I can't believe I never thought of that. By the next track event I attend in late January, I'm shooting to get springs installed before then. If I still don't have enough oversteer, I may do just that. Take OUT the front sway bar! I hope by then I've figured out how to disable the stability control system.. grrr..
I've done that in my xA and in my Z. For both, I have the stock front sway bar, and the rear with the stiffest I could find or set to the stiffest stetting.
At the moment, in the xA, I can't get into oversteer unless I trailbrake oversteer. I can't throttle oversteer yet, so I'm thinking I could actually stiffen the rear more. When I would trailbrake oversteer, it needed to be done really really deep into the turn and I'd have to really really try.
Taking out the front sway bar isn't a bad idea! Man, I can't believe I never thought of that. By the next track event I attend in late January, I'm shooting to get springs installed before then. If I still don't have enough oversteer, I may do just that. Take OUT the front sway bar! I hope by then I've figured out how to disable the stability control system.. grrr..
#13
Originally Posted by nest
My instincts tell me to get the stiffest rear bar I can find and leave the front alone. Has anyone gone that route?
The VW Golf's are generally set up softer in the front, thats why they often lift the inside rear wheel on hard cornering.
My Sprite (front engine,rear drive) was the opposite: Lifted thae inside front.
Ideally, you want to corner with all four tires in contact with the ground.
We generally dont disconnect the swaybars unless it is raining.
#15
I have the Progress rear bar on my xB and the stock bar on the front, It works for me, I have raced before in SCCA, Forget the upgrade on the front bar, If you want to drive your box to it's fullest, Just my 02 tho.
#16
Originally Posted by Xbilly
Is there ANY benefit then to swapping out the front sway bar? Unfortunately I ordered hotchkis bars Before researching like a retard
#17
Originally Posted by bulldog2g
For most drivers, on a daily, the reduction in roll is a great feeling, but for someone wanting to take it closer to it's limits, the understeer can be frustrating.
#18
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Originally Posted by lonewolfxb
I have the Progress rear bar on my xB and the stock bar on the front, It works for me, I have raced before in SCCA, Forget the upgrade on the front bar, If you want to drive your box to it's fullest, Just my 02 tho.
#20
easy install and no issues with exhaust systems
my strup hung low and this is with the progressive
look through the gallery of my business
http://www.partshippers.com/index.php?main_page=gallery
my strup hung low and this is with the progressive
look through the gallery of my business
http://www.partshippers.com/index.php?main_page=gallery