Check Engine
05-03-2011, 03:53 AM
#22
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Right. P0136.
http://engine-codes.com/p0136_scion.html
I checked both sensors with a multimeter, and the last time I checked, they reported ok. It's been a minute since I last looked, but will do it again this week.
The 3 amigos would stay on hard, but lately they will come on, then go away.
http://engine-codes.com/p0136_scion.html
I checked both sensors with a multimeter, and the last time I checked, they reported ok. It's been a minute since I last looked, but will do it again this week.
The 3 amigos would stay on hard, but lately they will come on, then go away.
Last edited by Ford_Falcon; 05-14-2011 at 01:18 AM.
05-13-2011, 01:51 AM
#24
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So today I decided to bite the bullet and take my xB to Toyota for a checkup. For $100 it was better than guessing. The diagnosis: Not only is my O2 sensor (the one after the cat) not working, but they also found the following:
The crank position sensor seal was broken and, get this, oil had found its way past the sensor, into the wire harness, and worked its way right up to the ECU box!
The cost of repair is approximately $2,500, so I waived that. I'll do it myself thanks. Anyway, I'm on the look out for a new engine wire harness and ECU (not sure if it's even worth trying to clean the existing ones). Of course, I need a new crank position sensor and O2 sensor as well. The tech said it's only a matter of time before the ECU fails due to the oil inside, and there's a good chance other sensors will die when the wires begin to short. That also answers another question I had, about why my car was using more engine oil than usual.
Anyway, for an '04 Scion xB, with manual transmission, should I stick with an '04, and if I can't find one, can anyone say that an '05 or '06 is compatible?
The crank position sensor seal was broken and, get this, oil had found its way past the sensor, into the wire harness, and worked its way right up to the ECU box!
The cost of repair is approximately $2,500, so I waived that. I'll do it myself thanks. Anyway, I'm on the look out for a new engine wire harness and ECU (not sure if it's even worth trying to clean the existing ones). Of course, I need a new crank position sensor and O2 sensor as well. The tech said it's only a matter of time before the ECU fails due to the oil inside, and there's a good chance other sensors will die when the wires begin to short. That also answers another question I had, about why my car was using more engine oil than usual.
Anyway, for an '04 Scion xB, with manual transmission, should I stick with an '04, and if I can't find one, can anyone say that an '05 or '06 is compatible?
05-13-2011, 04:16 AM
#25
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I believe any year would work for your gen1 xb.
You could use a xA engine without any problems I believe.
If you can't find a xA or xB then you could look for a Yaris.
There's write up on a Scionlife forum telling what does and does not work from a Yaris engine.
I've seen it before.
Probe around.
You could use a xA engine without any problems I believe.
If you can't find a xA or xB then you could look for a Yaris.
There's write up on a Scionlife forum telling what does and does not work from a Yaris engine.
I've seen it before.
Probe around.
05-13-2011, 05:09 AM
#26
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$2500 bucks for that?! i know the dealership is high, but that's just ridiculous! i walked out on a mechanic that wanted to charge me $800 bucks for an o2 sensor, and repair on my old 99 corolla! i went almost 4 years until my best friend, and i fixed it ourselves so i could sell the car! it sucks you can't bring your car anywhere anymore without expecting to sometimes pay over $2k grand! i figured you could get transmission work with that money! who has that kinda money laying around?
i'm confused though does the ecu need to be replaced? maybe it was the price of the part that was so expensive i'm thinking. has the earthquake affected the price of parts that much? i guess it's not too much to complain about if you got 200k miles, and you haven't had to lay that kinda money on it before. thumbs up on doing it yourself though. guess you have to do things yourself these days or borrow money against your car just to pay repair bills!
so i was laid off last week, and this week i been working with a guy who used to give me work for my own business over the years. i'm helping him renovate a building. he's got this little nissan mini pickup he uses for small loads. i think it's a 92 with 202k miles. he's got a big flatbed chevy for others. the alternator went the other day in the nissan. he can fix anything, but with this job we're doing we're pressed for time, so i guess he decided to take it to his mechanic he's been to before. the guy wanted almost $600 bucks parts, and labor! his hourly rate is 90$ bucks an hour supposedly. he took it to another guy, and the other guy did him a little better at just under $500. he still thought he was being stiffed, so he buys an alternator for it. a new one not re manufactured one either. he gets it for $70 bucks with a $10 dollar core charge. so he gets it for $60 bucks.
him, and i replaced it this morning. it was a pain in the ___ cause we had to go under, but it only took us an hour, and a half, and we aren't even professional auto mechanics, and we goofed around, and took our time! anyone with experience it would have took an hour, and a half tops with one experienced guy working on it! so say they charged us $100 bucks for the part. at $90 dollars an hour say they rounded just a half hour, and charged him 2 hours labor. that should have been around a $300 dollar job! instead they probably wanted to charge 5 hours to do a 2 hour job. so i try to do as much on my vehicles as possible. i don't have $2500 bucks laying around! i used everything i had saved just to buy this car! that was tax refund, and credits, a small amount of savings, and a job i did for a friend!
i'm confused though does the ecu need to be replaced? maybe it was the price of the part that was so expensive i'm thinking. has the earthquake affected the price of parts that much? i guess it's not too much to complain about if you got 200k miles, and you haven't had to lay that kinda money on it before. thumbs up on doing it yourself though. guess you have to do things yourself these days or borrow money against your car just to pay repair bills!
so i was laid off last week, and this week i been working with a guy who used to give me work for my own business over the years. i'm helping him renovate a building. he's got this little nissan mini pickup he uses for small loads. i think it's a 92 with 202k miles. he's got a big flatbed chevy for others. the alternator went the other day in the nissan. he can fix anything, but with this job we're doing we're pressed for time, so i guess he decided to take it to his mechanic he's been to before. the guy wanted almost $600 bucks parts, and labor! his hourly rate is 90$ bucks an hour supposedly. he took it to another guy, and the other guy did him a little better at just under $500. he still thought he was being stiffed, so he buys an alternator for it. a new one not re manufactured one either. he gets it for $70 bucks with a $10 dollar core charge. so he gets it for $60 bucks.
him, and i replaced it this morning. it was a pain in the ___ cause we had to go under, but it only took us an hour, and a half, and we aren't even professional auto mechanics, and we goofed around, and took our time! anyone with experience it would have took an hour, and a half tops with one experienced guy working on it! so say they charged us $100 bucks for the part. at $90 dollars an hour say they rounded just a half hour, and charged him 2 hours labor. that should have been around a $300 dollar job! instead they probably wanted to charge 5 hours to do a 2 hour job. so i try to do as much on my vehicles as possible. i don't have $2500 bucks laying around! i used everything i had saved just to buy this car! that was tax refund, and credits, a small amount of savings, and a job i did for a friend!
05-14-2011, 01:38 AM
#29
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Hah! jbod... I feel ya on the getting raped part. I'm just like you. I started working on my own cars about 10 years ago out of necessity as I can't afford mechanics fees... hell, I'm a computer tech, and I wish I could make the same hourly rate as they do! Before I took it to Toyota I already knew the were going to quote some ridiculous sum of money, which is why I told them only wanted the diagnosis. Anyway, i think my '04 is only worth about $3K (checking KBB), so I can't justify that money, even if I had it to burn.
Thanks for the tip reactor. I'll start with the easiest/cheapest part and replace one at a time. The crank position sensor first, since the seal is broken, then the O2 sensor, and then I'll see how it goes. They disconnected the harness to the ECU and showed me the oil, so it's definitely in there. (Yeah, they actually let me in the workshop area to see for myself).
The good thing about people like us who like to tinker with our toys, we have a fair idea how much parts cost, the time it takes to repair/replace etc, so we already know when dealerships/mechanics are trying to scam us. I feel sorry for those who do get shafted.
Thanks for the tip reactor. I'll start with the easiest/cheapest part and replace one at a time. The crank position sensor first, since the seal is broken, then the O2 sensor, and then I'll see how it goes. They disconnected the harness to the ECU and showed me the oil, so it's definitely in there. (Yeah, they actually let me in the workshop area to see for myself).
The good thing about people like us who like to tinker with our toys, we have a fair idea how much parts cost, the time it takes to repair/replace etc, so we already know when dealerships/mechanics are trying to scam us. I feel sorry for those who do get shafted.
Last edited by Ford_Falcon; 05-14-2011 at 01:55 AM.
05-14-2011, 05:29 AM
#30
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The basic rule of thumb when fixing modern cars: replace components that trigger high priority codes first. What codes do you have? O2 Sensor heater? Then do that sensor first and worry about the rest later. I honestly don't believe in the cam position sensor blowing the oil seal and allowing oil traveling all the way to the ECU. I don't even think that sensor has a seal.
Did you get all that diagnosis in writing?
Did you get all that diagnosis in writing?
05-14-2011, 06:04 AM
#31
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i would rather fix the ecu oil leak problem, because i've had o2 sensors go, and had no problems for years. the other thing sounds like it could be a big problem. i do see reactor's point though. it does seem a little funny. the o2 sensor is probably cheaper, and an easier fix. at least when you replace that you can see if the codes are still there, and work with that.
still sounds like a lot of money. a lot of people say the dealerships charge a lot of money. i find all the places charge a lot of money. just way too much. it's one thing to have a rate of $100 bucks an hour. that's not so bad. when they charge $100 bucks an hour to do a 2.5 hour job for $300 bucks, and round off a half hour well that isn't so bad. it's when they charge $100 bucks an hour, and charge 5 hours labor for something that only take 2 or 3 tops.
still sounds like a lot of money. a lot of people say the dealerships charge a lot of money. i find all the places charge a lot of money. just way too much. it's one thing to have a rate of $100 bucks an hour. that's not so bad. when they charge $100 bucks an hour to do a 2.5 hour job for $300 bucks, and round off a half hour well that isn't so bad. it's when they charge $100 bucks an hour, and charge 5 hours labor for something that only take 2 or 3 tops.
05-14-2011, 04:45 PM
#32
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The basic rule of thumb when fixing modern cars: replace components that trigger high priority codes first. What codes do you have? O2 Sensor heater? Then do that sensor first and worry about the rest later. I honestly don't believe in the cam position sensor blowing the oil seal and allowing oil traveling all the way to the ECU. I don't even think that sensor has a seal.
Did you get all that diagnosis in writing?
Did you get all that diagnosis in writing?
Aside from that code, everything is functioning ok. My gas mileage isn't as good as it could be...I think I'm getting just under 30mpg.
05-15-2011, 05:34 AM
#33
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hey i've been wondering something lately. are the costs of parts up due to the earthquake in japan maybe? i've browsed parts for these cars just to browse them, and they are usually expensive outside of ebay. i don't know where the ecu is on this car i haven't had it long. if it's where it is in most cars it looks like it shouldn't be hard to replace, but that the part itself would be really expensive.
05-15-2011, 11:01 PM
#34
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hey i've been wondering something lately. are the costs of parts up due to the earthquake in japan maybe? i've browsed parts for these cars just to browse them, and they are usually expensive outside of ebay. i don't know where the ecu is on this car i haven't had it long. if it's where it is in most cars it looks like it shouldn't be hard to replace, but that the part itself would be really expensive.
Let's see...
Delphi SS10254 CRANK SENSOR CRANKSHAFT - $56
But surely I could find just a replacement O-ring. I'm sure could buy a http://cgi.ebay.com/Berk-407-PC-Assortment-Auto-ORing-O-Ring-Seal-SAE-Kit-/310316909508?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item48405443c4 for just a few bucks. I'm due to replace the oil soon, so I'll check it out when I drain it.
Beck Arnley heated 4-wire O2 sensor - $85
I'll never understand why they charge so much for O2 sensors.
As for the ECU and harness, I'll wait to see what happens after I change the O2 and Crank Position sensors. I've seen an ECU on eBay for $120 used. Not sure if I can even get one new (outside of the dealership). The harness isn't so easy to come by.
05-29-2011, 12:52 AM
#35
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OK, so I changed out the oil, swapped out the downstream O2 sensor, and decided to go with just replacing the o-ring seal on the crank position sensor. I cleared the error codes. It's been 2 days and no check engine light. Filled the tank with gas. Will see what my MPGs are like this time. Next, to clean the ECU and whatever I can reach on the wire harness.
05-29-2011, 01:30 AM
#36
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that's good man i hope it all works out for you! them wanting to charge $2500 bucks is out of their mind! if i had $2500 bucks laying around i would be making car payments on something brand new right now! just did a side job for a buddy, and got a few grand, and it's going toward credit card debt, and divorce settlement. i'm in the service business first hand so i know how they screw you! i have my own side business doing garage doors, but i've always been fair, and i never double the price on any parts, or charge anymore than a half hour more labor i do. i'm very open about my rate of $80 bucks an hour. if i do a job that takes an hour 35 minutes i'll charge 2 hours, but that's it! i've seen the company i used to work for pull that ____.
05-29-2011, 04:33 AM
#37
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No kidding. $14 for an O-ring kit, $62 for a 4-wire O2 sensor. I'm still over $2400 in front of the dealer's quote... lol, I could also look for a low mileage engine and tranny and still be in front.
03-20-2012, 03:34 PM
#38
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I've been dealing with the dreaded P0012 code on my 96' XA since 2010 shortly after I purchased it used with a salvage title. The car ran fine and if I was in the mood I would clear the check engine light with a code reader I purchased at Pep Boys. I also noticed that every so often the check engine light would go out for a day or two and then return. I tried some suggestions mentioned on this fourm short of taking into the dealer as I wasn't in the mood to spend over $1500 on a perfectly good running car
A few weeks ago while traveling down a local interstate at about 75 mph an SUV almost ran me off the road. In trying to avoid this idiot I down shifted, intending to go into 4th gear but threw the car in 2nd gear!!!
After my eyeballs returned to their eye sockets I immediately looked at my tach - not at red line but it was close. I continued to drive along (after placing the vehicle into 5th gear) performing an assessment of what I just did thankfully realizing that I didn't blow up my car!!
Later that day I noticed the check engine light went out and it stayed out for 3 days. On the 4th day I put my trusty code reader to it and it did show the P0012 code which I cleared. I drove 150 miles the following day - no code, no light! It's been about 10 days now and all is well (knock on wood). I don't recommend this as a fix but thought I would share it with all you P0012 sufferers! Don't know what I fixed (or broke) but any and all comments welcomed!
A few weeks ago while traveling down a local interstate at about 75 mph an SUV almost ran me off the road. In trying to avoid this idiot I down shifted, intending to go into 4th gear but threw the car in 2nd gear!!!
After my eyeballs returned to their eye sockets I immediately looked at my tach - not at red line but it was close. I continued to drive along (after placing the vehicle into 5th gear) performing an assessment of what I just did thankfully realizing that I didn't blow up my car!!Later that day I noticed the check engine light went out and it stayed out for 3 days. On the 4th day I put my trusty code reader to it and it did show the P0012 code which I cleared. I drove 150 miles the following day - no code, no light! It's been about 10 days now and all is well (knock on wood). I don't recommend this as a fix but thought I would share it with all you P0012 sufferers! Don't know what I fixed (or broke) but any and all comments welcomed!
09-25-2012, 12:28 PM
#40
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ok, to all here. I have an 04 Xa.... getting the 12 code since about 45k, now at 170k. I HAVE DONE NOTHING ABOUT IT< > I EXPECT IT NOW> I have beat this car like a rented mule since it came off the lot with 7 miles on it. I regularly hit upper revs, and this is usually when the code shows.
the code states that positioning is not where expected. well, Hard Down shifts and quick rev changes seem to confuse the system. I did initially spend a fair amount of time on exploring the source and or fix. however, every track day ( or aggressive commute) end with the light on the dash telling me I've had a good day..... I'm not saying ignore the lights.. but historically, no adverse affects. I have had the car checked by both dealer and independent mechs, no issue. Full disclosure here... 48yrs old, many vehicles, fairly advanced shade tree mechanic, color matched helmet for the car. Never thought I would enjoy an ECONO BOX this much...
the code states that positioning is not where expected. well, Hard Down shifts and quick rev changes seem to confuse the system. I did initially spend a fair amount of time on exploring the source and or fix. however, every track day ( or aggressive commute) end with the light on the dash telling me I've had a good day..... I'm not saying ignore the lights.. but historically, no adverse affects. I have had the car checked by both dealer and independent mechs, no issue. Full disclosure here... 48yrs old, many vehicles, fairly advanced shade tree mechanic, color matched helmet for the car. Never thought I would enjoy an ECONO BOX this much...