anyone know of a good experienced specialty metals welding shop?

i'm looking for a place that is experienced with welding 3AL-2.5V Cold Worked Stress Relieved Titanium alloy seamless tubing *try saying that all in one breath...*. i'd like to find a good experienced shop with this metal. more then likely going to be custom bi-cycle frame shops. i have plans for a roll cage for my xB and i'd like to make it out of 3-2.5 titanium *yes i realize it's expensive, do see though that it's 50% lighter in weight and about 15% stronger then the normal 4130 chromoly that's used for roll cages.*. having a titanium cage, it would only add about 70-75lbs of weight compared to adding nearly 170-180lbs for a chromoly cage and it's stronger. cost is about double compared to the normal *for my cage design, about $1,000 for chromoly material, around 2,400 to my estimates for 3-2.5 alloy in the same size and same length amount.*.

just need to find an experienced shop that i can go to, to ask for some pointers and hints on the techniques of welding 3-2.5 alloy. my guess is having to use 3-2.5 alloy filler sticks and a mig welder. the only thing i would be having a major problem with is how to get a good fuse between the 3-2.5 alloy and the sheet metal steel material. neither alloy shares any common base material so it would might be something that will require me to do a bolt in setup on a reinforcement plate and just seal it up with silicone. again... guessing to what i know...

 

I am not sure but If I remember you need to TIG weld Titanium for a clean weld it has been to many years since welding school to remember allthe ins and outs.......

 

I have a lot of experience doing stuff like this. However this is not a project I would do on the side. It is not neccesarry to TIG weld it, you could use silicone bronze wire in a MIG machine but you would not get a good weld. you would most likely use stainless filler rod to TIG weld it with. Plus it would be a serious pain in the butt to bend the material without stress fracturing the bend. You are, in my opinion, better off using a .125 DOM cage material and designing your cage much stronger using gussets. Then getting it chromed for that titanium look.
Here is my revised portfolio so you can see the stuff I have made, so you know what I am talking about.
http://www.soypablostudio.com/Pablo_..._Resume_08.pdf

Good luck.

P

 

Wow dude

You do awesome work - some of those projects are very creative.. Good job!!

 

to may understanding 3-2.5 is roughly similar to work with compared to marine grade T316 stainless in regards to weldability and machinability and when it comes to bending it just requires a little extra elbow grease from what i read on the bicycle forums about this metal.

great job with the stuff in your portfolio by the way, very nice.

 

Try Zieglers welding in Oly.

 

Yep start calling around to the welding shops..........also might want to try some speciality car shops like the one in Fife that does custom rearends........even try Bucky Austin's for connections to guys who work with this material with success........personally I would go witha good TIG welded Stainless......the weight is always available to be taken out elsewhere........

 

thanks man i'll look'm up.

not much so on the xB... unless i replaced all my windows with poly, take out my automatic window motors and replace the doors with CF doors which is retardedly expensive... then there isn't any real way of reducing any weight from the xB. my goal is to put a roll cage that is practical for every day driving that also stiffens the chassis and supplies harness bars and guides while at the same time adding hardly any weight at all. like i said, the whole thing would be around 70lbs when finished compared to around 180lbs which is a noticeable difference.

please know, if you haven't seen any of my past threads of my plans for my xB, this is in preparation for the use of a 3SGTE and Alltrac AWD system going into the xB. the roll cage is being installed before hand in a specific way that it will not need to be modified in the future after the project is finished. and before anyone says anything about a roll cage ruining the way a car is suppose to crumple in a wreck, i'm not worried about that, there are harnesses going in and all bars will be padded and none of the bars are located in a way that it would be harmful in a wreck UNLESS someone is stupid enough not to put their harness on which should and will never happen because i'm a seatbelt/harness ****, my car doesn't move unless a belt is worn . plus, i think some of you would love this cage design it's got front and back impact absorption so that it still allows the crumple zones to take partial effect while the absorption helps out on the initial intense jerking of a front or back impact.

 

I would re examine that to be honest. There was a kid down south with a legal rollbar that was rear ended on the street, his neck extended (not lethal), but when his head hit the padded bar it crushed his skull and killed him instantly, but not just that, the forces of an impact cause the body to extend and padding isn't enough even with a helmet you can get knocked out, seen it happen, scary sh_t.

Also the xB can be races but Washington SCCA auto-x doesn't allow it for a tip hazard so keep that in mind.

Also be sure to email the sanctioning agencies to make sure your roll bar plans are legal if you plan on racing the car because what you want might not be legal, even if it's better different metals react differently than what they have tested so they might not want to take that kind of liability. Sorry I look at every angle with a few close friends that ran Formula D I got ideas bounced off of me just to make sure they weren't thinking to ___ backwards so I learned a lot of the odd rules. Also if you are going to cut the firewall check into that to make sure they don't have any issues. Rules are weird sometimes, but in racing they usually have a point.

Good luck.

 

oh nono, don't get me wrong it's not meant for full on race. it's only meant to help stiffen the xB chassis and help protect on roll overs. essentially it's an extended roll bar that protects all passengers while also supplying harness bars and guides. the only real stiffening to crashes would be side impacts because of the B pillar tubing comming down to connect to the chassis. if someone were to T-bone the xB with this specific design, it would allow the sides to flex like they are suppose to, to a point that is. they would actually add a slight amount of protection if anything at all.

 

Okay.

I think your missing what I am saying about upon impact the neck extending allowing the head to impact the bar. Padding isn't sufficient, even the approved adding is VERY hard and meant for helmet impacts not direct head. Most shops won't weld a cage unless it's legal also because liability issues. Also keep in mind any modifications the chassis like that in the event of a wreck and a fatality you could be personally held liable by the victims family.

I think it's cool, but at the same time just things to keep in mind in todays society, sadly.

 

Good luck with your cage - just make sure that it does protect your passengers 'cause that's more important then making it look cool and stiffining the ride up - just my 2 cents

 

it's not a full on race cage. it's just to help stiffen the chassis in a twisting motion and to supply harness bars. imagen just a single roll bar, only extended throughout the front and rear seats. wreck wise there wouldn't be much difference at all, the pillar bars arn't connected to one another by the doors and would allow the crumple zones to work just like they were meant to.

a real good example, it's similar to FirmWare's design. only it's made from real material and actually finishes at the points that it's suppose to finish at... like the A pillar bars going through the dash like they are suppose to and the C pillar bars going to the floor like they are suppose to. pillar bars B and C just have some added cross bracing just behind the seats to add against chassis twisting. other then that, it's perfectly fine. another example that it would be similar to is Cusco's street type roll bar/cages. i understand completely what you mean, but it's not that big of a worry with this setup. there isn't a single cross bracing bar that goes above mid chest hight.

here's a crude drawing of what it's going to be like or similar to. there are some tweeks i'd like to do to it based on the cross bracing setup.